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  1. #76
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    508
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post
    It's literally a fact. There's no comprehensible way in which Hunters are going to be out-dps'ing RKs with +2 pulses being viable again alongside double +96 runes and Hunter set bonus being -7 bards arrow CD lol.
    Ill try to test more tomorrow but for now:

    +2 pulses osgi set: Coldbear > Coldbear (2m 19.9s); Rialtan - Dmg: 4.237M; DPS: 30,298;
    same mastery but not set: Coldbear > Coldbear (2m 29.3s); Rialtan - Dmg: 4.212M; DPS: 28,211;

    I know 1 test isnt enough but if you say something like: rk will outdps hunter (and it means rk should get at least 70% more dps) i guess i should have noticed at least a lil difference.
    Rialtan - Rk - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog
    Stragnokka - Champ - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog

  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Rialtan View Post
    Ill try to test more tomorrow but for now:

    +2 pulses osgi set: Coldbear > Coldbear (2m 19.9s); Rialtan - Dmg: 4.237M; DPS: 30,298;
    same mastery but not set: Coldbear > Coldbear (2m 29.3s); Rialtan - Dmg: 4.212M; DPS: 28,211;

    I know 1 test isnt enough but if you say something like: rk will outdps hunter (and it means rk should get at least 70% more dps) i guess i should have noticed at least a lil difference.
    Mate, rk is not even 20% behind hunters with 2 runes and same mastery, only in burst scenarios they are 50% behind hunters, which in my opinion isn't really bad since RK is a DoT class and got no power issues in long fights. And still 2 pulses set increases the dps of lots of rks by a huge amount (around 20-30% in my case), come on, I got a heal rk with 110k mastery, 40k finesse on my questing gear (though I have 2 incomparable) and I do around 6 mins for first 2 mini bosses when I go seregost t2c while on the same setup some perfect geared hunters barely get it under 4 mins. That's a small difference with 100k less mastery, I haven't geared up my rk yet for dps(honestly rk dps is boring to me) but kinnies who got it fully geared say their tooltips are almost double of what I have on mine, if they implement the sets as it is right now on this post, hunters will again be not desirable for any PUG group (they will be able to do enough dps, but who would take a risk when you can have 2 more rezzes and more reliable dps?).
    I have both rk and hunter and I'm the same player with decent experience on my classes, and my rk is mainly healer...I can't know for sure, maybe will try on next beta, but I'm sure rk dps is not any far behind hunt dps at this point, certainly not 70% behind.

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    508
    Is hard to speak about hunter, i know.

    For example i know geared hunters who cant over-dps me on seregost bosses and i know others doing 50% more.

    Unfortunately i never played hunter and i have to judge from other ppl feedbacks/parsecs/screens.

    I wont complain about rk. Atm imho is fine even without pulse set, all i'd like to see is a decent Blue set.
    Rialtan - Rk - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog
    Stragnokka - Champ - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    375
    Once RKs get DoT set and the relics from the raid the should outparse a hunter in sustained situations. Balance in this game is all over the place, I’m wondering if the devs even know what they are doing...

  5. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Geventh View Post
    Once RKs get DoT set and the relics from the raid the should outparse a hunter in sustained situations. Balance in this game is all over the place, I’m wondering if the devs even know what they are doing...
    Still doubtful.

  6. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Kander View Post
    Mate, rk is not even 20% behind hunters with 2 runes and same mastery, only in burst scenarios they are 50% behind hunters, which in my opinion isn't really bad since RK is a DoT class and got no power issues in long fights. And still 2 pulses set increases the dps of lots of rks by a huge amount (around 20-30% in my case), come on, I got a heal rk with 110k mastery, 40k finesse on my questing gear (though I have 2 incomparable) and I do around 6 mins for first 2 mini bosses when I go seregost t2c while on the same setup some perfect geared hunters barely get it under 4 mins. That's a small difference with 100k less mastery, I haven't geared up my rk yet for dps(honestly rk dps is boring to me) but kinnies who got it fully geared say their tooltips are almost double of what I have on mine, if they implement the sets as it is right now on this post, hunters will again be not desirable for any PUG group (they will be able to do enough dps, but who would take a risk when you can have 2 more rezzes and more reliable dps?).
    I have both rk and hunter and I'm the same player with decent experience on my classes, and my rk is mainly healer...I can't know for sure, maybe will try on next beta, but I'm sure rk dps is not any far behind hunt dps at this point, certainly not 70% behind.
    First boss by hunter barely under 4 minutes? Time to delete. Takes half of that and not even perfect gear. When we run something like hunter and rk combo that is more of raid like experience its not even close and hunter parses clearly higher, lm benefit is not enough to turn it around either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    Guards bonuses are again a joke and worth nothing.
    I disagree. I can already see shield wall set bonus used on multiple ways to reduce damage tanks take from special attacks. Not to mentioning it makes something like seregost or pvp shield walling stupid easy.
    Last edited by siipperi; Nov 17 2017 at 05:05 AM.

  7. #82
    The difference between RK and hunter is right where it should be... hunter is clearly better, and RK is an acceptable substitute if an RK wants to join and can role no other class.
    Illydros Squanto Ulricson Saridas Gap

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    508
    Quote Originally Posted by 007Squanto View Post
    The difference between RK and hunter is right where it should be... hunter is clearly better, and RK is an acceptable substitute if an RK wants to join and can role no other class.
    I agree, my only doubt was about what kander said about pulse set on rk and overdpsing hunter.
    Rialtan - Rk - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog
    Stragnokka - Champ - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog

  9. #84
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    Oct 2016
    Posts
    508
    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    First boss by hunter barely under 4 minutes? Time to delete. Takes half of that and not even perfect gear. When we run something like hunter and rk combo that is more of raid like experience its not even close and hunter parses clearly higher, lm benefit is not enough to turn it around either.


    I can take off them in 1min and 30 secs each on rk, 2 min and 5/10 secs for dulgabeth (without support) so yes. Maybe it took 4mins cause female got some tier on her.
    Rialtan - Rk - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog
    Stragnokka - Champ - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,791
    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post


    I disagree. I can already see shield wall set bonus used on multiple ways to reduce damage tanks take from special attacks. Not to mentioning it makes something like seregost or pvp shield walling stupid easy.
    For sure a nice bonus, you take 33% less dmg of random attacks your shield walled fellow get.
    So a few hits are reduced. This is nothing worth.
    This bonuses are again nothing more as a hit in the faces of guards.

  11. #86
    First thing:

    Dps is all about support.
    Hunters can do 100-150k with lm+capt as support on first+second boss,rk maybe 50% of that.
    Even with setups where you want to compare stats(like mini,guard + rk/hunter) dps will still difference because of how good the player is,what you use and stuff.

    DPS Balance between Rk and Hunter now:

    Hunter is stronger atm,on st a lot(20-30%),on aoe rk is stronger and doing on st-semi ae same dps as hunter on st.(Like first boss ss,naerbrand and stuff).

    With the raid and every possible gear,2X114.8 tact runes on rk it will be different.

    That still depends if we will get usefull dps setboni(pls no hs reset) on the hunter raid armour.
    Current dps bonus with -20sec raapid fire is doing almost nothing for overall dps, but yeah we will see if that will change.

    For the raid:I doubt you will use more then 1 rk(red) because:more then 1 rk is a dps loss on the rks(due to procs).
    Rather have 1rk,1-2 hunters+burgs for optimal dps setups(look at that thread: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...e-competition& )

    I really dont think we will see red rk stacking again as we had it at the release of throne.

    My 2 cents
    Drizzels
    EN Evernight Odyssey Officer and Raid Leader
    Original Challenger of the Abyss
    NA Gladden:Ramble on of Elendilmir

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    508
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasius View Post
    First thing:

    Dps is all about support.
    Hunters can do 100-150k with lm+capt as support on first+second boss,rk maybe 50% of that.
    Even with setups where you want to compare stats(like mini,guard + rk/hunter) dps will still difference because of how good the player is,what you use and stuff.

    DPS Balance between Rk and Hunter now:

    Hunter is stronger atm,on st a lot(20-30%),on aoe rk is stronger and doing on st-semi ae same dps as hunter on st.(Like first boss ss,naerbrand and stuff).

    With the raid and every possible gear,2X114.8 tact runes on rk it will be different.

    That still depends if we will get usefull dps setboni(pls no hs reset) on the hunter raid armour.
    Current dps bonus with -20sec raapid fire is doing almost nothing for overall dps, but yeah we will see if that will change.

    For the raid:I doubt you will use more then 1 rk(red) because:more then 1 rk is a dps loss on the rks(due to procs).
    Rather have 1rk,1-2 hunters+burgs for optimal dps setups(look at that thread: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...e-competition& )

    I really dont think we will see red rk stacking again as we had it at the release of throne.

    My 2 cents
    It's weird but i agree with you
    Rialtan - Rk - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog
    Stragnokka - Champ - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog

  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    For sure a nice bonus, you take 33% less dmg of random attacks your shield walled fellow get.
    So a few hits are reduced. This is nothing worth.
    This bonuses are again nothing more as a hit in the faces of guards.
    no one said you should shieldwall any random target. think about having two guards and shieldwalling each other -> both take 33% less damage. if thats not great for a hard-hitting encounter, I dont know what kind of setbonus you want as a tank. Yep, shieldwalling deactivates avoidance. but who cares, avoidance gets ignored by bosses anyway.
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Anführer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
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  14. #89
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    Jun 2011
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    1,791
    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    no one said you should shieldwall any random target. think about having two guards and shieldwalling each other -> both take 33% less damage. if thats not great for a hard-hitting encounter, I dont know what kind of setbonus you want as a tank. Yep, shieldwalling deactivates avoidance. but who cares, avoidance gets ignored by bosses anyway.
    This means you will play with two guards.
    A good setbonus was the og bonus for example. Or just give something like +10% Inc heal or morale or +5% mitigations.
    Or an increased proc chance for disorientation +15% for example.

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
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    608
    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    think about having two guards and shieldwalling each other
    You can't shield wall a guardian that already uses shield wall lol

  16. #91
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Croatia
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    613
    Guardian sets.
    Almost a joke.

    Oh well, you tried, guys. Best of luck next year!

  17. #92
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    Jun 2011
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    1,791
    Quote Originally Posted by zipfile View Post
    Guardian sets.
    Almost a joke.

    Oh well, you tried, guys. Best of luck next year!
    I really don't understand why they allways try new ones, everytime crappier.
    Instead of keeping one good like the og ones with the reduction of warriors heart CD with swipe or the hytbold.
    I mean for wardens they keep their additional dot and hot impulses too.

  18. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Phindecano View Post
    You can't shield wall a guardian that already uses shield wall lol
    *sigh*
    think about a fight like Rakothas. The two guards both tank half the time. So only the one not taking the hits needs to shieldwall the active tank and as soon as he taunts, he deactivates it and the other activates it... is it so hard to understand that reducing 33% damage CAN be really nice?
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Anführer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
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  19. #94
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    Jun 2011
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    1,791
    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    *sigh*
    think about a fight like Rakothas. The two guards both tank half the time. So only the one not taking the hits needs to shieldwall the active tank and as soon as he taunts, he deactivates it and the other activates it... is it so hard to understand that reducing 33% damage CAN be really nice?
    So the tank with full bleeds should take the dmg. Think about it.

  20. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    First boss by hunter barely under 4 minutes? Time to delete.
    Really constructive... still I haven't seen a single hunter doing it noticeable faster than that with same group setup (maybe with HS reset set but not sure), maybe seen some do it in 3:30 or 3:15 with good crit luck, but only that. So I would like to see how and also proof of hunters doing it in 2 minutes both without support (consistently, not one lucky parse with perfect crit chance).

  21. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    *sigh*
    think about a fight like Rakothas. The two guards both tank half the time. So only the one not taking the hits needs to shieldwall the active tank and as soon as he taunts, he deactivates it and the other activates it... is it so hard to understand that reducing 33% damage CAN be really nice?
    You should really look at that skill. i doubt that the 33% damage reduction is more than the loss of all BPE on the tanking guardian...

  22. #97
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    Jun 2011
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    1,791
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorondir View Post
    You should really look at that skill. i doubt that the 33% damage reduction is more than the loss of all BPE on the tanking guardian...
    Not to forget that the walling guard will get dmg from his targets or you just waste a place

  23. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorondir View Post
    You should really look at that skill. i doubt that the 33% damage reduction is more than the loss of all BPE on the tanking guardian...
    He used rakothas as an example. Good example of unavoidable attack unless using pvp shield. On that kind of situations and situations where you tank just boss it can provide extremely useful. Have similar situation in the end of boss fight. Enrage buff activates. Group debuffs the boss that is left, guardian shield walls the main tank o take 33% less damage, that can be huge on those situations that have similar ending to fights like UO, where you required to have 2 tanks but other one is useless in the end.

  24. #99
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    Jun 2011
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    1,791
    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    He used rakothas as an example. Good example of unavoidable attack unless using pvp shield. On that kind of situations and situations where you tank just boss it can provide extremely useful. Have similar situation in the end of boss fight. Enrage buff activates. Group debuffs the boss that is left, guardian shield walls the main tank o take 33% less damage, that can be huge on those situations that have similar ending to fights like UO, where you required to have 2 tanks but other one is useless in the end.
    For all this situtions we´ve cappies. to switch to offtank.
    there is no need to waste a spot with a second only tank.
    This bonus is just a bad joke and shows nothing else as their low interest on guards.

  25. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    For all this situtions we´ve cappies. to switch to offtank.
    there is no need to waste a spot with a second only tank.
    This bonus is just a bad joke and shows nothing else as their low interest on guards.
    ^ Doesn't raid. Doesn't understand there can be required to have 2 tanks in the fight.

 

 
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