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  1. #1

    Ashes of Gorgoroth - Currency Cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Tybur View Post
    • Preview - In order to test the functionality of the system, this Bullroarer build includes a currency cap on Ash of Gorgoroth in addition to having Ash automatically go into the Barter Wallet. This functionality has not been approved for an update, but we want to test versioning and other parts.
    Please can a developer comment on what the new currency cap is going to be? At the moment it is 2K Ash on BR, which is clearly a placeholder.
    My concern is many of us have used a significant amount of REAL MONEY to purchase Black Steel Keys and accumulated a lot of ASH.

    For example, between the purchase of black steel keys, dailies and Court of Seregost T2c (over 550 boss kills) I already have 4 fully geared toons with 50-60k ash stockpiled for future updates. We were given the distinct impresssion from LOTRO streams that Ash of Gorgoroth was here to stay and would be a way to counterbalance RNG so made sense to accumulate.

    Since you are looking at around 12k ash (inc. gold rings) to fully gear a toon, before considering swap pieces, multiple specs, alts etc. players should be able to store at least 250k - 500k ash. If this is not posssible for some technical reason then we should be given the ability to convert ash to storable tokens at our Bank Vaults like we can do with gold.

    Why is this Cap even being introduced? To prevent players from stockpiling ash so you can persuade us to buy more store brought keys later on to regenerate Ash? How is that fair on those of us who already spent both time grinding and real money to generate ash? Do you really intend to take it away from us or penalise us for playing/supporting the game?

    Please COMMENT to help ALLEVIATE our concerns regarding this proposed change.
    Knight | Captain | Arkenstone

  2. #2
    500k ash lol someone going full. P2w. I struggle to keep even over 500 before some alt eats them.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    500k ash lol someone going full. P2w. I struggle to keep even over 500 before some alt eats them.
    I grind just as hard, if not more than you do.

    Furthermore even with my very modest income I put my hand to my pocket to support the game many of us play daily. The continuation of lotro relies not only on its player base, but it’s ability to generate money. However that does not mean the developers should take advantage.

    There is nothing in lotro to win (I don’t see any eSports scene, just random egos).

    If Ashes of Gorgoroth are here to stay then the currency cap should reflect this.
    In 2007/2008 having 10k gold seemed unachievable and I was constantly selling my horse to foot my repair bill, but now look at us.
    Knight | Captain | Arkenstone

  4. #4

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight.Arkenstone View Post
    I grind just as hard, if not more than you do.

    Furthermore even with my very modest income I put my hand to my pocket to support the game many of us play daily. The continuation of lotro relies not only on its player base, but it’s ability to generate money. However that does not mean the developers should take advantage.

    There is nothing in lotro to win (I don’t see any eSports scene, just random egos).

    If Ashes of Gorgoroth are here to stay then the currency cap should reflect this.
    In 2007/2008 having 10k gold seemed unachievable and I was constantly selling my horse to foot my repair bill, but now look at us.
    Do you know how much 500 000 is? You are lucky to get 1000 ash on 8-9 runs of t2c. There is no reason why currency should be able to stack over price of full 15 slots of gear.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    Do you know how much 500 000 is? You are lucky to get 1000 ash on 8-9 runs of t2c. There is no reason why currency should be able to stack over price of full 15 slots of gear.
    Do you not understand that there are people running T2c Content + opening loot boxes from dailies + purchasing keys + landscape drops.
    Many players run multiple specs which require multiple gear sets. Others have a lot of alts to cater for.

    If I can generate 60k ash after gearing 4 toons only 2 months into Mordor, those with more disposable income or time over the course of a year or so may stockpile even more.
    Knight | Captain | Arkenstone

  6. #6
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    The main question here is what will happen with overcap? Will it stay as currently on BR (meaning we must farm as much ash as we can before update goes live to be sure we can gear up) or will it be fully deleted w/o any notification? That's the question.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight.Arkenstone View Post
    Do you not understand that there are people running T2c Content + opening loot boxes from dailies + purchasing keys + landscape drops.
    Many players run multiple specs which require multiple gear sets. Others have a lot of alts to cater for.

    If I can generate 60k ash after gearing 4 toons only 2 months into Mordor, those with more disposable income or time over the course of a year or so may stockpile even more.
    I dont care. In my opinion one shouldnt be able to stack over 5k ash (2k too low) in storage as of now since it just means people purchase full gears when update goes live that uses the system. There is no longeativity on update and having noncapped currencies just means devs are forced to factor this on designing of barter prices. So what you are doing here is digging your own grind grave. Having some go ahead currency is good to get 3-5 pieces but to get full 15 pieces on release of update is bad game design and they try avoid that.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    I dont care. In my opinion one shouldnt be able to stack over 5k ash (2k too low) in storage as of now since it just means people purchase full gears when update goes live that uses the system. There is no longeativity on update and having noncapped currencies just means devs are forced to factor this on designing of barter prices. So what you are doing here is digging your own grind grave. Having some go ahead currency is good to get 3-5 pieces but to get full 15 pieces on release of update is bad game design and they try avoid that.
    I think what you forget is that ash is account wide. For a player who just has one character at 115 a cap doesn't matter much. But what about players who have 5, 10, 15+ characters. 5k is nothing for that many alts. You also seem to forget that not everybody plays like you. The next main update (U22) could just bring a new currency for the new gear like most updates before did. There shouldn't even have been a ilvl upgrade with this update except for the instance gear.

  9. #9
    Knight,

    Thanks for bringing this to the non-bullroarer people's attention. This is legit a terrible idea on their part. I honestly don't get the punitive behaviors coming out of SSG.

  10. #10
    I forgot about those who accumulated their ash simply from black steel key purchases (I know a few who bought ~100 black steel keys during first or second lootbox reset, though I'm too frugal to buy store-bought keys).

    There's a thread on general forums who suspects that lootbox rewards were nerfed regarding ash and other stuff since last time around. I realize that the ash economy is out of control, but it seems this method is not the way to do it. Plus, one can just hoard the items used to get ash rather than the alternatives

  11. #11
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    500k is hilariously over the top. I'm sorry but just lol.

    2k is clearly a place-holder. The cap imo should be 30k or something.
    #15skills

  12. #12
    Why place a cap on the ashes tho?

    its a stupid attempt to make you grind everytime they decide to upgrade the ash gear... Make fun content and we will be bussy playing it, dont increase stupid grind that drive us away from the game instead!

  13. #13
    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...25#post7780325

    oh gosh you feel cheated of 10k ash out of your 500k?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Cenifh View Post
    Why place a cap on the ashes tho?

    its a stupid attempt to make you grind everytime they decide to upgrade the ash gear... Make fun content and we will be bussy playing it, dont increase stupid grind that drive us away from the game instead!
    You could ask the exact same question of why there is a cap on commendations. Because they don't want people to fully max out their gear 5 minutes after an update.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Cenifh View Post
    Why place a cap on the ashes tho?

    its a stupid attempt to make you grind everytime they decide to upgrade the ash gear... Make fun content and we will be bussy playing it, dont increase stupid grind that drive us away from the game instead!
    Think situation where you take 6 months break, all ashes used. They make next big thing few updates after raid and they know people have collected tens of thousands of ash. They decide to compensate this knowingly by making prices ten thousand per item because its only reasonable if people have tens of thousands of ash. So you come back and it will take you literally weeks to get first items. Sounds fair right?

    All general barter currencies should always have cap to prevent huge stockpiling and get geared in day mentality. This is why skirmish barter system flopped, people with hundreds of thousands of marks and can purchase anything from skirmishcamp anytime they want to.


    Having caps in place are ways to ensure there is not need for huge barter prices and it limits max barter price a lot.

    This lead to thing I have suggested for longest time, remove all skirmish currency from wallets, remove anything over 200g from players and remove all vault coins from vaults. Game would be way better for it. And this is coming from someone who has hundreds of thousands of marks and tens of thousands of gold, sitting doing nothing.

  16. #16
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    If they are going this direction, it should have had a cap from the start. Or introduce yet another new currency. The ship has sailed to limit one of the primary progression methods for gear and not leave major issues. It's another example of a new system that gets random iterations for better or worse - but only several months after the fact.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by NeoBasilisk View Post
    You could ask the exact same question of why there is a cap on commendations. Because they don't want people to fully max out their gear 5 minutes after an update.
    You could make that argument for Instance Pair update, but I hope raid gear isn't barterable with ash....

  18. #18
    Join Date
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    Anyone would think that SSG is using it's loyal player-base as a 'cash cow', knowing that those with a nostalgic attachment to the game, will be reluctant to 'call it a day' regardless to the extent to which they feel that they are being 'milked'.
    Yes, I know it's a Squirrel: they don't have a Hedgehog.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    All general barter currencies should always have cap to prevent huge stockpiling and get geared in day mentality. This is why skirmish barter system flopped, people with hundreds of thousands of marks and can purchase anything from skirmishcamp anytime they want to.
    Raid gear was never linked to Skirm system, you could not gain raid quality Armor through the skirm camps, every raid update had its own unique gear setup within the raid; the Raid gear was obtained....through the raid.

    Why are we assuming that Ash is the path used for Raid Gear all of the sudden?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trogdor_the_Burninator View Post
    You could make that argument for Instance Pair update, but I hope raid gear isn't barterable with ash....
    100% agree, why would they use ASH as a way to obtain the raid gear? The Raid gear was always obtained right from the raid.

    Anyone see an official post on the raid gear being linked to Ash?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by mmogaming View Post
    Raid gear was never linked to Skirm system, you could not gain raid quality Armor through the skirm camps, every raid update had its own unique gear setup within the raid; the Raid gear was obtained....through the raid.

    Why are we assuming that Ash is the path used for Raid Gear all of the sudden?



    100% agree, why would they use ASH as a way to obtain the raid gear? The Raid gear was always obtained right from the raid.

    Anyone see an official post on the raid gear being linked to Ash?
    I'd say that idea is based on what would be the current "instance" gear atm is ash barter for most of it

    Ash cap is a silly idea imo and if thats the road SSG were going down it should of been in place at the start.

  21. #21
    Any further info / comment from devs please?
    Knight | Captain | Arkenstone

  22. #22
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight.Arkenstone View Post
    Any further info / comment from devs please?
    What is a cap on ashes seeking to achieve and is the best way to achieve it?

    Issues seem likely to be:

    > Casual players are disproportionally disenfranchised by mechanics which favour ongoing grind and limit ability to use annual leave and other windows for burst play.

    > Key sales will likely go down, as my response, and likely that of others, will be to stop opening boxes until well under the cap.

    > Potential for legal action should the cap result in consumers not receiving the expected value of their purchases.

    > Grumbles. It's a vexatious mechanic that generates inconvenience, eg storing ashes items until they can be used.

    If the purpose of the cap as some have suggested is to prevent the hard core from being able to step into new gear release day, why does this matter? Seriously, why?? It's how they want to play the game, let them! Do you really want to introduce a game mechanic that will vex the 90% for sake of the 10%?

  23. #23
    I can't imagine what would be gained by capping this currency.

    Black Steel Key sales would almost certainly plummet. Any player, at the ash cap, would be very hesitant to use any of their keys. Players would likely start dumping keys, earned via dailies, into the AH. This would drive key prices down to the point where almost no one would consider buying them from the LoTRO store.

    I don't think this would be effective in stopping players from mass purchasing future ash vendor items. Most players, who hit the ash cap, would simply hoard ash granting items for later use. Item hoarding would render the cap meaningless.
    Last edited by Mercho; Nov 10 2017 at 04:33 AM.

  24. #24
    There are new infos from the livestream +Cord of the Rings. I Hope, I can remember all facts:

    - the possible cap will be much higher than on bullroarer (maybe 20000 oder more?)
    - the cap on bullroarer was a mistake: 2000 is lower than the highest price from the barter
    - nobody is going to loose his ash! If you have 50000 and the cap will be at 20000 you will keep all the ash, but you are not able to gain more, until you fall under the cap again
    - the system ist planned "long term" - so the cap is neccessary to support the system for a long time. There a a lot of players with 50000, 100000 and more ash and without a cap these players will get all the future items with one click.
    - it is possible that gear drops from mordor landscape will be removed

    best regards

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thurinuor View Post
    There are new infos from the livestream +Cord of the Rings. I Hope, I can remember all facts:

    - the possible cap will be much higher than on bullroarer (maybe 20000 oder more?)
    - the cap on bullroarer was a mistake: 2000 is lower than the highest price from the barter
    - nobody is going to loose his ash! If you have 50000 and the cap will be at 20000 you will keep all the ash, but you are not able to gain more, until you fall under the cap again
    - the system ist planned "long term" - so the cap is neccessary to support the system for a long time. There a a lot of players with 50000, 100000 and more ash and without a cap these players will get all the future items with one click.
    - it is possible that gear drops from mordor landscape will be removed

    best regards
    So how will gear progression be in future updates?
    Buy Keys -> Generate Ash -> Barter (Done, don't bother with content)???

    Seriously there needs to be a path which encourages people to do the next challening content.
    Imo ash should have been the currency to trade unwanted gear but without the P2W & landscape farm aspect. Prices should be adjusted so the only reliable way to get BiS items is to run the designated content released at the time. (Eg. Dailies -> Instances -> Raid)

 

 
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