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  1. #1

    [PLEASE HELP] Over 100 hours updating and nothing still nowhere near finished

    Hey there, long time pc/mac player (picked up the game in 2009) and I've been on and off since. In all my years of playing games, I have NEVER experienced an update process that has been this painstakingly slow. I recently switched to a mac in the past couple of years (Not of my own free will) and I have been trying to get back into it. The only problem is that I have been trying to update the game for nearly 100 hours now. It is riddled with crashes, error codes, and server timeouts. On top of that the files take an incredibly long amount of time to download, and we are talking a mere 10-16gb. The last time I played was about a month or two after riders of Rohan and Helms deep came out, and that was after a 2 year break. The update at that time took maybe 5 hours max (on the same computer I am currently using). I get 100Mb/s up and down currently, and am pulling a consistent 20-25Mb/s when downloading from most 3rd party platforms.

    The point is, I really want to get back into the game and am wondering if there is any help you can offer me besides saying "it's just a big file" because I have downloaded, unencrypted, and applied much larger ones in much less time. I have even emailed turbine but they refuse to assist mac players.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Philadelphia, PA
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    3,128
    Quote Originally Posted by SoliSaqib View Post
    The last time I played was about a month or two after riders of Rohan and Helms deep came out, and that was after a 2 year break. The update at that time took maybe 5 hours max (on the same computer I am currently using). I get 100Mb/s up and down currently, and am pulling a consistent 20-25Mb/s when downloading from most 3rd party platforms.

    The point is, I really want to get back into the game and am wondering if there is any help you can offer me besides saying "it's just a big file" because I have downloaded, unencrypted, and applied much larger ones in much less time. I have even emailed turbine but they refuse to assist mac players.
    The primary factors impacting download speed are your actual ISP 's download speed; the speed and fragmentation of your disk drive; your basic system speed.

    The speed to your desktop is pretty meaningless. Your ISP's "back-haul" links are what is involved. How big is their pipe to the Internet Backbone, and how congested is it.
    ISPs use all kinds of "edge-cache" servers to provide "fast downloads" for commonly accessed materials. This is especially true with things like streaming movies. But when you access a unique item, like the download files for LOTRO, your queries and the actual download has to go all the way back to and be serviced by SSG's own servers. The game content is NOT cached on your ISP's local servers. Your ISP can provide fantastic response to servers located on their own network. You don't indicate WHERE you are geographically, which brings up the possibility that your ISP is connected to the Internet via a major government mandated and controlled gateway -- where each individual packet is examined for what is considered objectionable content.

    Once the download begins, your system speed and disk drives become a major factor.

    Back in 2012 when Riders of Rohan and the Mac Client came out, the base download (which is still the one you get first) was about 12 Gig. Since that time, the "patch" which takes place after the base download, has grown with to an ultimate size of roughly 20 Gig. Helm's deep was Update 12, the just released Mordor expansion is Update 21. That is a lot of content that did not exist at the time of Helms Deep in 2013.

    Apple has always been notorious for horrendous I/O - they are well known to use 5400 rpm disk drives to achieve "price points" and to improve performance with READ caches.
    The problem is that the download process requires a MASSIVE number of writes to a temp file, which are NOT cached. And that is just on the download! Next that download must be decrypted. Then the original on-disk file has to be read, the decrypted patch applied, and the new file written out again. While secure and effective, this process is NOT efficient. Which means -- it is a slow process.

    All of which is to say -- there is no magic bullet when you have several years worth of updates to catch up with.

    BTW, Turbine is no longer involved with LOTRO. The assets of LOTRO and DDO were sold the their Developers who formed a new company called Standing Stone Games (SSG).
    Which is to say, the content is being provided by the same people, but under a new name.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Valamar View Post
    The primary factors impacting download speed are your actual ISP 's download speed; the speed and fragmentation of your disk drive; your basic system speed.

    The speed to your desktop is pretty meaningless. Your ISP's "back-haul" links are what is involved. How big is their pipe to the Internet Backbone, and how congested is it.
    ISPs use all kinds of "edge-cache" servers to provide "fast downloads" for commonly accessed materials. This is especially true with things like streaming movies. But when you access a unique item, like the download files for LOTRO, your queries and the actual download has to go all the way back to and be serviced by SSG's own servers. The game content is NOT cached on your ISP's local servers. Your ISP can provide fantastic response to servers located on their own network. You don't indicate WHERE you are geographically, which brings up the possibility that your ISP is connected to the Internet via a major government mandated and controlled gateway -- where each individual packet is examined for what is considered objectionable content.

    Once the download begins, your system speed and disk drives become a major factor.

    Back in 2012 when Riders of Rohan and the Mac Client came out, the base download (which is still the one you get first) was about 12 Gig. Since that time, the "patch" which takes place after the base download, has grown with to an ultimate size of roughly 20 Gig. Helm's deep was Update 12, the just released Mordor expansion is Update 21. That is a lot of content that did not exist at the time of Helms Deep in 2013.

    Apple has always been notorious for horrendous I/O - they are well known to use 5400 rpm disk drives to achieve "price points" and to improve performance with READ caches.
    The problem is that the download process requires a MASSIVE number of writes to a temp file, which are NOT cached. And that is just on the download! Next that download must be decrypted. Then the original on-disk file has to be read, the decrypted patch applied, and the new file written out again. While secure and effective, this process is NOT efficient. Which means -- it is a slow process.

    All of which is to say -- there is no magic bullet when you have several years worth of updates to catch up with.

    BTW, Turbine is no longer involved with LOTRO. The assets of LOTRO and DDO were sold the their Developers who formed a new company called Standing Stone Games (SSG).
    Which is to say, the content is being provided by the same people, but under a new name.
    As I stated in a reply to another thread, after messing around in the package contents, removing the TM in the name, and running the app directly from my local files, steam somehow took over the update process and I was able to complete it in about 30 minutes. I'm not sure how this happened and I would appreciate it if someone out there could figure out what made steam download the update for me.

  4. #4
    I come back to the game every once and a while to see if there’s anything new both with the client and the game itself. Of course there are going to be patches and updates it’s part of gaming today. I’ve been downloading the update for almost two days now. No it’s not my isp, nor my disk nor my cpu it’s just terrible servers or a combination of terrible servers and client. Either way any new person to the game would have gave up ages ago. Dreadful.

  5. #5
    Yes, LOTRO's patcher is simply poorly performing. There's no good reason to be be taking so long to download the data.

    Given that it apparently works acceptably for some people, I suspect the problem may be something like insufficient TCP buffer size, which would not cause issues with a low bandwidth delay product but would be more and more noticeable with higher ping times and/or a bigger pipe. IOW a gigabit connection on the other side of the world from the servers would only have a tiny fraction of its capacity used by the LOTRO patcher.

    EDIT: On further investigation, this theory may not hold water. The files appear to be downloaded from Akamai's CDN, which normally performs very well for me. My ping to download.lotro.akamai.turbine. com is under 15 ms. And yet the patcher still manages to take a couple minutes to download a file that should take a couple seconds.

    Maybe the buffers are just really tiny? Or maybe they're deliberately throttling for some weird reason? Who knows…
    Last edited by Formengil; Dec 06 2018 at 12:46 PM.

 

 

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