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  1. #26
    Having owned a business in the past, the first thing you learn is to. 1) eat your mistakes. 2) keep your customers satisfied. For without happy customers you can not run a successful or profitable business. SSG's was a very bad business decision and guaranteed to cost them players, I.e. players. Customer service is not rocket science.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,903
    Well I have to say I actually agree with the decision in one respect - I think they were right not to simply let players who traded early keep the barter gear as is at the erroneously low price while putting the price way up for everyone else. They made that same mistake with the Ithilien flower picking and again with the Waste rep items. Once one eliminates that option, the only options are either to keep the low price for everyone, or some sort of rollback / claw back. SSG (or Daybreak) appears to have made the business decision not to leave the prices low for everyone. With those options eliminated, we're left with the messy business of a claw back.

    Honestly I think a component of people being upset has simply to do with the high barter cost itself, once the price is "corrected". I think if the price had been set at that higher value to start with, there still would have been people upset about the grind necessary to obtain that gear. However, there is clearly another component related specifically to those who obtained the gear at the erroneously low price, and will now have it clawed back. I think there are further ancillary concerns regarding the evident lack of testing and the fact that no one can barter now until the fix is implemented.

    Specially regarding the claw back, I think they've made a reasonably fair arrangement. If they had been able to simply convert people back to exactly what they had before they obtained the new gear, turned their existing gear to ash and removed and reinstalled essences, people would still be upset about that. However, as it's not possible to do that in any case, they're nerfing the stats on the gear obtained, so that it's in line with the price paid, and offering to allow it to be exchanged for a full ash refund plus empowered shadow essences corresponding to essence slots on the gear. Really I think this allows people to come out ahead at the end, compared to where they would be if the price for the gear had been what was intended from the start. I would certainly be happy to trade in essence reclaim scrolls for two additional empowered shadow essences.

    So I certainly don't see the claw back as being outrageous, although there are obviously many who disagree. If I now had the opportunity to barter for the nerfed version, and later turn it in for a full ash refund plus additional empowered shadow essences I would snap up that deal. From my perspective, the clawback is the only viable option, once they taken the option of leaving the low price indefinitely off the table.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Diego, CA
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    859
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirillin View Post
    I hereby propose a boycott of LotRO.
    Since I didn't take advantage of an exploit, and thereby be in violation of the ToS, I have no reason to boycott Lotro. In fact, I have greater respect for SSG for showing mercy and not banning those that were guilty of it.
    .

    Main: Corrien Lvl 95 Champ (Meneldor)
    Alts: I don't do alts

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by treato View Post
    Since I didn't take advantage of an exploit, and thereby be in violation of the ToS, I have no reason to boycott Lotro. In fact, I have greater respect for SSG for showing mercy and not banning those that were guilty of it.
    No one exploited anything and saying so shows complete ignorance on your part.

    The facts are as follows:

    1) Many of the people, myself included, did not go on BR so we had no idea what gear was being added where or at what price.
    2) Of course even if we had gone on BR we still would not have known what to expect in regards to this gear as it was *not* on BR test builds so no one knew what price they were meant to be.
    3) We bought the gear from an NPC in good faith and did not do anything against the ToC's nor anything that could be counted as an exploit... unless of course bartering gear from a vendor is now an exploit? Which if it is there goes pretty much every player on LotRO.
    4) Even if some people guessed the prices were incorrect it is still no fault of theirs, it is up to SSG to quality check their game or to at least put the content on BR so players can test it. When you add things last minute, as is the case here, you run into problems as demonstrated by this mess.

    So next time you start throwing the word exploit around maybe go and find a dictionary first so you understand the actual meaning of it.

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by mbfabulian View Post
    Having owned a business in the past, the first thing you learn is to. 1) eat your mistakes. 2) keep your customers satisfied. For without happy customers you can not run a successful or profitable business. SSG's was a very bad business decision and guaranteed to cost them players, I.e. players. Customer service is not rocket science.
    ^ this. I have worked in retail/customer service for over 10 years and have always been told the number one priority is to keep the customers satisfied. If you have no customer you have no business.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    1,903
    The "fix" has been decided upon, and people have obviously made up their minds regarding it, for the most part. However, I wonder about this suggestion, not even knowing if it's feasible. What if it were possible for players who bartered for the pieces in question to keep what they have, as is, and to have the price increased to what was intended, and have the anyone who bartered for the pieces at the unintended low price to have an "ash debt" applied to their account. This would deduct the difference between what they paid and what the price was intended to be from their current ash total, and if (as is likely) they did not have enough to pay the full difference the unpaid amount would be a negative towards their ash total. Would that be acceptable to people?

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Alabama
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    607
    Quote Originally Posted by DKenny View Post
    The "fix" has been decided upon, and people have obviously made up their minds regarding it, for the most part. However, I wonder about this suggestion, not even knowing if it's feasible. What if it were possible for players who bartered for the pieces in question to keep what they have, as is, and to have the price increased to what was intended, and have the anyone who bartered for the pieces at the unintended low price to have an "ash debt" applied to their account. This would deduct the difference between what they paid and what the price was intended to be from their current ash total, and if (as is likely) they did not have enough to pay the full difference the unpaid amount would be a negative towards their ash total. Would that be acceptable to people?
    Well, given the fact that an ash debt wouldn't have a negative impact if you'd already gotten all the gear... I don't think this would be an effective fix.
    Eredor-Champion, Ereworn-Minstrel, Ereshorn-Runekeeper, Eresworn-Hunter, Eremourn-Burglar, Erehorn-Captain, Erelorn-Warden, Eretorn-Lore-Master, Erescorn-Guardian... And Erecorn-Master Farmer

  8. #33
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    Sep 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by dselden View Post
    Well, given the fact that an ash debt wouldn't have a negative impact if you'd already gotten all the gear... I don't think this would be an effective fix.
    I suppose that's true, if this were the end of the road for the ash mechanism, and / or this gear is the best gear that will ever be obtainable with it. On the other hand, if ash is going forward for some time, and there will be future improvements in gear obtainable by using it, then carrying forward the debt would have a "negative impact" down the road.

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Madmanthief View Post
    Apparently you buffoons failed to see this: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...35#post7778935

    Apparently so.

    Please, everyone...by all means boycott the game. In fact, go download Pong and play something that won't offend you. I'll be overjoyed at the greater responsiveness of the servers. /troll

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by treato View Post
    Since I didn't take advantage of an exploit, and thereby be in violation of the ToS, I have no reason to boycott Lotro. In fact, I have greater respect for SSG for showing mercy and not banning those that were guilty of it.
    2020: Your post has retroactively been determined to be an exploit, using more characters than intended to be permissible without grinding a higher post count, incoming hot fix will require a minimum of 3000 posts, whereas at the time of your offending post you had a mere 855. We do appreciate your appreciation of our mercy towards other offenders, so we expect you to find it fair that we'll be leaving all your End Game characters naked, until you unlock "forum post text length." (hypertext link to Lotro Store)
    Arkenstone (formerly Landroval):
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    Eviliz Unseen, r11 Warg. Lizifer, r11 Defiler.

  11. #36
    I used to play another prominent MMO which introduced an epic fishing pole with stats that also made it a blunt weapon. It transpired that this item was effectively BIS for one certain class, but one only.

    To obtain said pole one had to reach Kindred with a relevant faction (time) and part with a tall stack of in-game gold (money, Friend). When it was realised how well one class benefitted from having the item, the developer stripped all stats except those pertaining to fishing, and reduced the item cost to pennies.

    My main logged in to find himself practically weaponless and severely out of pocket. Compared to the steaming hot cup of "cry harder" players were served to make up for the lost gold, I think SSG is being exceptionally reasonable in this instance.

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Segarnis View Post
    Apparently so.

    Please, everyone...by all means boycott the game. In fact, go download Pong and play something that won't offend you. I'll be overjoyed at the greater responsiveness of the servers. /troll
    You won't be enjoying anything if there is no game to log into. Hint: That is the inevitable outcome if people persist with your type of rhetoric.
    Don't tell me, show me...

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    The problem with an announced boycott, is they know what it is before it arrives. It's a one day boycott, which will be over in a day. Numbers dropping will make their ears stick up a bit, if they don't know it's coming or how long it's gonna last

    The other thing that talks is money.
    Monkeys are superior to man in this . . . . When a monkey looks in a mirror, he sees a monkey.
    Edited, because some folk just can't do wordplay.

  14. #39
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    Sep 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoatMandible View Post
    .... Compared to the steaming hot cup of "cry harder" players were served to make up for the lost gold, I think SSG is being exceptionally reasonable in this instance.
    Honestly, from my perspective, I think the error with the cost of the barter gear is being conflated with other complaints, such as the apparent grind required as a consequence of the "correct" price, as well as p2w as a consequence of bis gear from loot boxes. There are also those who expected to benefit fully from having gotten in early to take advantage of the unintentional discount. After all, that was how it worked for Ithilien flowers and Wastes rep drops. So I suppose actually having a claw back (which is the one thing SSG got right IMHO) is a bitter pill to swallow. Still, I would be quite happy to trade in all my ash for the compensation being offered. Players who got the gear get to keep and use it as long as they need / want to, in order to grind for more gear. They then get all their ash back, plus extra empowered shadow essences, over and above what they started with. I think 1 essence reclaim scroll per piece with slots would have been adequate compensation, and getting one empowered shadow essence per slot is pure profit.

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Joetzim View Post
    Been boycotting the game since Mordor pre-purchase appeared. Only logged in once to play my house upkeep. You are welcome to join me.
    Hey, please pay my upkeep while you're in there!

    In all seriousness, as others have pointed out a one-day boycott isn't sending much of a message. Also you're attempting it during one of the most popular festivals, and players focused on the festival are probably oblivious to what all the fuss is about.

  16. #41
    I think they'll go on with their decision, nothing change. There are players wants to go on maybe because of they aren't affected by this problem, maybe because they are full of real money and don't care how they spend them or for Others reason. Everyone has his way to think, ok, but will come the day when you'll be affected and you'll think about. If we are writing in forum is because we have care about Lotro otherwise none write. Personally i decide to end with Lotro. I think they can change (mmmmm very very difficult) their idea for now, but will happen again. Someone wrote it's only a game, what's this mean? I can throw out of window money and time? No thk. They had to banned me? Yes this is democracy! If someone don't think like you kill him and you live well! Better to close everything and restart. It's the strongest brand could exit, surely another software take it

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirillin View Post
    So the title basically says it all.

    As one of the many people affected by the recent update and disgusted at not only the sarcastic response of the CM but the lack of communication or apology, not to even get started on the proposed "fix", I hereby propose a boycott of LotRO.


    I really think that as a community we need band together to make certain that SSG knows that this sort of behaviour is no longer acceptable.
    Fix of what? I don't even know what you're referring to.
    His sword was long, his lance was keen, his shining helm afar was seen.

  18. #43
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    Jul 2016
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    UK
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    With so much server down-time this week; would they notice??

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    5,611
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    The problem with an announced boycott, is they know what it is before it arrives. It's a one day boycott, which will be over in a day. Numbers dropping will make their ears stick up a bit, if they don't know it's coming or how long it's gonna last

    The other thing that talks is money.
    Yep talk is money.... and keys and solvents are still being purchased like candy... from the same players crying they arent going to support SSG much. They can not even have the basic comprehension that by buying Black Keys or solvents they are supporting SSG. Its like the dumb leading the dumber. Anyways I laugh at the hypocrisy and laugh harder at all the people claiming they will "boycot" or "cancel subs" cause chances are... it is not happening.
    I saw the light fade from the sky
    On the wind I heard a sigh
    As the snowflakes cover my fallen brothers
    I will say this last goodbye

  20. #45
    My email filter deletes all those "let's stop filling up at Chevron (Esso, Shell, insert your gas station brand here) for a day and really show them who's the boss" emails because they are spam. This entire thread reminds me of those. Will likely be as effective too.
    His sword was long, his lance was keen, his shining helm afar was seen.

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    UK
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    Boycott day is today for me I think, but I'm missing world chat for the first time ever...

    Mac

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    I am already on involuntary boycott, all the days I don't have time to play.
    The Elruthrim Brethren of Crickhollow
    Malancil 107 CHN, Historian | Calchiar 110 CPT, Explorer | Sturmdrang 77 WDN, Woodsman
    Anancite 71 GRD, Armourer | Tarostel 54 HNT, Armsman | Angredeth 97 HNT, Tinker

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by kickman77 View Post
    Yep talk is money.... and keys and solvents are still being purchased like candy... from the same players crying they arent going to support SSG much. They can not even have the basic comprehension that by buying Black Keys or solvents they are supporting SSG. Its like the dumb leading the dumber. Anyways I laugh at the hypocrisy and laugh harder at all the people claiming they will "boycot" or "cancel subs" cause chances are... it is not happening.
    Hmmm, don't need keys or solvents right now, but I do need Mithril coins, so I'll be buying those later today. /cheers

  24. #49
    Here is a Boycott:

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    MA, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sito_Origami View Post
    My email filter deletes all those "let's stop filling up at Chevron (Esso, Shell, insert your gas station brand here) for a day and really show them who's the boss" emails because they are spam. This entire thread reminds me of those. Will likely be as effective too.
    So you've chosen to boycott boycotts. Interesting.
    The Lag is so bad I saw Sara Oakheart outrun someone - kickman77

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