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  1. #1

    Cool Grillish Goes to SSG Oct 4 2017

    First of All - Let me say this.

    What you are about to read is my perspective on SSG operations based on my recent short visit and is Not Intended to Represent SSG or speak on behalf of SSG in any way.
    This posting is strictly my point of view based on our face to face meeting we had on Oct 4th 2017 in Boston.

    My unexpected visit was politely received and my ideas were found to be very interesting and full of details that their Brand Manager was completely unaware and of course,
    then there were other issues that they were aware of. Based on SSG priorities the issues are addressed. Which in other words is asking, basically,
    where is the Best place to invest their limited resources.# Some were being addressed presently and others were under consideration.
    ... Some issues I had pointed out were completely unknown.
    The gaming development process is such a Painfully slow process but with good results, in the end.
    It should be known that What works as a stand-alone sub routine or program does Not necessarily work the same way when introduced into the existing code.
    This can cause major headaches. A time-eater.
    There are a lot of factors to consider.
    It's like building an AI.

    A Game Defined = A game Must have 4 things.

    A Goal
    A Purpose
    Freedoms and Barriers

    Missing any one of those 4 above, Or Too Much of one compared to another(s) can cause it to become a No Game condition. No Fun.

    For those of you who have known me the longest, ... ... ...
    All those suggestions we collected over the years ...
    Do you remember ?

    Well I tried to write most of them down in my Little Black Book which I then hand delivered to SSG in Boston, freely with no strings attached.
    My, (Our) gift to them. All In the hopes that those suggestions would be seriously considered at some point. To make the game better and More Fun.#

    The Little Black Book of Suggestions contains things like :

    1) 9 year old Freepside Deed Log issues.
    2) Don't kill off the sense of adventure and exploring the map issues.
    3) Wire-framework accuracy related to the applied texture.
    4) Chat / Mail box issues as related to label / window placement & retention issues.
    5) The Size / Speed of Wargs - ( Take 10% of Original size then added @ Rank & speed )
    Keep in mind A Raustoffarin(sp?) Rabbits were the Only thing faster than a Warg.
    6) I Mentioned Our Sense of Smell was reduced from 140m to 90 meters for a Warg, ... Really ? & then used Only Once every 1 min. that's the Best a Warg is able to smell Trouble ? Really ? I mean Really ?!??#
    7) When a hntr can track every 30 sec, ... really ??
    8) How The Talisman should be on a different / separate CD timer from Sense of Prey.
    9) Made the point that there is No incentive to play a Warg past R12.
    10) Suggested a Warg Rider R15, Either a Ranged NPC or a Melee NPC or Better yet, ...#
    10a) Allow another, ... actual player to ride the R15 Warg.
    11) Suggested a Better In-game Voice comm software like Discord.
    12) Need 2 separate slide switches for the shortcut bars.
    1 for combat and 1 for vaults & bags, Independent of each other.
    13) Brought up the question of a new toon, a Goblin, Freeps Have Beorning & High Elf, ...
    14) Suggested taking the crafting side template on Freepside & flipping it to fit Creepside, ... just so Creeps can make / level their own weapons.
    15) Spiders Should be able to climb Walls and steeper cliffs.
    16) I made the suggestion to allow Creeps, Once a year, maybe a day or week where Creeps could go ANYWHERE ON THE ME MAP WRECKING HAVOC ALL OVER
    Without disturbing Deeds and Titles acquisitions like "Undefeated" etc. A Defeated Freep would simply rez at the closest Stable Master with a protective force field that would cause
    Creeps to attack each other or themselves for one full min IF the Creeps decided to attack the Freep(s) cowering around the Stable Master.
    This would give them a way out and maybe Free Travel to encourage exploration, freely to collect map points.
    17) Tying the Reward system in OG with that of the Moors. Thereby making it a Solid reason to go the Osgiliath and take the 6 banners.
    Rewards might be the way of increasing the Mits or DPS for Creepside. Max Bonus is now 200%, ... Maybe, ... So then, Make it a max of 300 % instead, ...
    IF one includes taking the 6 banners in OG, as well. Besides Who cares if they can run across the bridge faster ?! The current reward for flipping the banners. Come-on.
    18) Made Suggestions on new Warg skills and skill names.
    19) How about htrs and Ba's - they should be closer matched.
    20) Better Potions and Foods / Buffs / Debuffs that last longer (1hr min - 2) and less expensive. 300 comms to 250 comms. Higher rank foods R10 max now for example.

    Just to name a few of the suggestions inside.

    What's My exchange for doing this you might wonder ? Well, I would like to see an improvement in the game so as to have "More Fun".
    To experience a higher "FUN FACTOR" while playing LOTRO than ever before.# I believe that little Black Book of Suggestions will improve the game and
    IF the producers would Only consider these proposed changes I offered, Then I firmly believe " The Fun Factor " will increase.
    The good vibrations would be achieved by All and as a result, there will be an increase in the overall profit potential which can be reinvested in order to make the game even better.
    A win win for everybody. Vicious cycle I know. lol

    On 10/6/2017 I got confirmation that what I had submitted 2 days earlier
    was passed along to The Producers for their consideration(s).

    Goal Accomplished.

    It's All Good as far as I could see, But it is going to take More Time & More Patience.
    As it Always does. Not much new there I guess.#
    The End game draws near & then what ?

    Keep in mind, If players do not make a financial investment in the game then the resources and thus speed at which SSG will have at their disposal to resolve those in-game issues will remain slow.
    Progress will remain at the same snail pace Unless the players invest real money into the game. The issue I pointed out was that SSG / LOTRO# were not really offering any real incentives to invest in creepside.
    No new skills for a Warg after R12 for example and then Especially when the balance of the toons was so severely lopsided.
    It should Also be pointed out that, Per the Lore, the creeps are inherently weaker, there were just a Lot More of them.

    It is my impression that their intent is to completely finish the story line on Freepside, as expected and work out all the bugs first. (There are 2 Updates in the works at the time.)
    After all, ... Freepside is their money maker. The end product that feeds everyone in the development process. PvMP has not really been considered much of an income driving machine
    like Freepside since day one. But here's what I know. They are missing out on a Big opportunity to make more money if they do not consider Seriously balancing out the toons and investing
    a bit more time and effort into the Creepside of the game. I let'em know that and as of that last update, ... that update 20 was A KILLER & people were leaving the game to play other, newer more balance games.
    I know that PvMP is a topic of discussion but once again it does not seem to have the attention it should because of the current priorities and the current problematic development issues
    that have happened during the creation of Freepside end-game scenarios. It boils down to where to invest limited funds to get maximum return on ones investment. The Biggest Impact. The Most Fun.

    I'm looking at the spring of next year 2018 Before PvMP will be seriously considered That IS IF they haven't done so already.
    I just didn't get the impression PvMP was once again on the top of their list of priorities, at the moment. Although having said that,
    I also got the impression that they feel something should / will be done about Creepside in the not too distant future.
    They Understand Creepside needs to be dealt with properly. Afterall I was told all employees of SSG were gamers.
    They should all be aware that after all that grinding on Freepside, ... to acquire the Best of Everything, Being Super Rock Stars Against the Machine, ... and then dropping off The One Ring into the bowls of Mount Doom ... is that it ? Are You Done ?
    All of that grinding should have prepared you for the Player Against Monster Player Arena. Be Prepared for the Unexpected. Promote going to the Moors. Promote in general.

    If I had to say what was the Most Important thing I took back from that meeting:
    Take the time to : WRITE UP REPORTS / TICKETS when something isn't quite right or you feel what happened is definitely wrong.
    Stay where you are at the time of the incident write the report at that location.
    If you retreat before report is done, you will have to start All over, so make an initial report then go back and add the finer detail after you retreat.
    Additional data is collected which is Behind the scenes that could help in resolving the issue.
    Try to be as accurate as you can be by listing out exactly how it happened. what happened. Step by step. In order, as best as you can remember.
    They will try to duplicate the issue IF at all possible. Only IF they can duplicate the problem is there a chance of the problem being fixed.
    Standardize your reports by using the same keywords. Bots are used to collate the voluminous amounts of reports collected.

    The Idea, Notion, Rumor or even remote possibility that Wargs are OP, atm.
    Laughable. Ludicrous. Absurd.# The Fact is :

    " Fur No Make Good Armor. "

    The devs are forcing us to work together as a pack
    they are forcing the pack to become Larger and better skilled, better organized in order to survive. As a result we are becoming More Effective.

    For all of you who are Not Technically oriented or have a technical background.
    Take it from me, someone who is a long time techie/gamer, ....
    This program we all know and Love as LOTRO, ... IT"S A MONSTER !#

    Remember you are talking to a real human being at some point during the review of your report and apparently All of SSGs employees are gamers. ...
    To one degree or another.
    They should be able to understand what you described. Detail is important.
    Changes can be made to improve things in-game as well as out, for that matter,
    it's all a matter of how we approach it.

    A Warg Fighting for Better PvMP Creepside.

  2. #2
    That was a very interesting write-up. I guess the thing I found most surprising is that their devs had much of any interest in playing the game beyond what they might do for unit testing code changes. It's also encouraging that they made the time to chat with you.
    P.S. always nice to see you pouncing out there
    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK
    Malakorou - Rank 10 Defiler
    Casinari - Original Challenger of Saruman Minstrel

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Well I tried to write most of them down in my Little Black Book which I then hand delivered to SSG in Boston, freely with no strings attached.
    You really think anyone's going to read that?

    They already get far more bug reports and feature suggestions than they can handle, via the normal channels.

    They were being nice to you. Nobody wants to disappoint the players, especially not face to face.
    Thurallor, Warden of Landroval
    Author of plugins: SequenceBars, Reminders, others

  4. #4
    "Keep in mind, If players do not make a financial investment in the game then the resources and thus speed at which SSG will have at their disposal to resolve those in-game issues will remain slow. "

    I've invested thousands of dollars in this game over the years. I have mentioned bugs like npcs/pets following players after hips/disappear/stealth a hundred times and that's just me and it falls on deaf ears. No amount of money will motivate these people to fix even the most game breaking bugs. Sorry.

    But to be honest, the idea of you showing up at their office unannounced to post your 95 theses to the cathedral door is quite possibly the most epic thing I've ever heard of. Well done.
    Team Milt.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Quote Originally Posted by Thurallor View Post
    They were being nice to you. Nobody wants to disappoint the players, especially not face to face.

    While there were a few good suggestions in that list, the majority of it was completely asinine and stunningly warg-centric.

    I imagine they looked at you in this manner as you gave your speech.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Oh my! This is almost too funny to be real.

    Ofc if you showed with a box of donuts...

    For once I agree with the scrub poster above me. giflol

    After you left,I bet they all gave a big sigh of relief as they were all standing stone pillars going ### just happened.

    Had you gone back the next day,you would have found your black book out back,in their recycle bin

  7. #7
    lul lotro pvp

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    I applaud your tenacity for taking the steps you did.

    Shame that you have massive Warg-goggles on and don't have a greater perspective for PvMP and creepside as a whole. Not that I blame you, the balance state of creepside has led players to play the easiest/strongest classes.

    Bug reports fall on deaf ears. I mained Warden for years, and would, on the daily, submit the same report for one particular bug affecting the Warden. 5 Years later and the same bug is still in the game.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2014

    "It's much easier to approach PvMP balance from the creep side, because the statistics that make up a monster player are far fewer and I can rapidly iterate on their relative strength very rapidly in a way that I absolutely cannot do with the Freeps."

    Did this happen to come up during your conversation with SSG? ^^^

    It's probably my imagination but if a buff to freep side is needed then it seems to happen wicked fast. It always seems to take much longer when it's the other way around. Especially since it is 'easier' to manipulate creeps.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they're trying to improve balance but I had to stop going to the Moors on my Hunter. Creeps are dead before they can get a skill off. No challenge

    As far as the "warg-goggles" accusation: If Grillish can do it then why not anyone. I'd recommend asking for an appointment out of consideration but go plead your case for your ideas, class changes, etc.

    With respect,


    P.S. I understand they are located in Boston. Donuts? Nah!! bring beer.

    P.P.S. I know not everyone can physically go there but the point is you can communicate. Heck, the post-office still delivers.



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