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  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    HAhahahahaha , that was too funny because it is so true. Thanks for the laugh.



    I've also wondered many times how players act like its all cool and always defend SSG even in clear fails.
    Sometimes , it is blind fanboism , which exists in every game , BUT , we also need to keep in mind , that if some players are still levelling or RPing or don't do end-game or simply don't care , they won't face most of the issues you raised.
    What is beyond me , is why those same players have to pop in and defend SSG on things they doesn't participate in or don't understand.
    I guess they fall into the first category ^^
    You're absolutely right.
    I would love to give a lecture or two to both SSG and the players here about business, getting and keeping clients. But what do I know, I only wrote a book about it.
    Both SSG and players seem to not be aware that this is a provider of goods-consumer relationship and that you should demand quality product even here, like you do everywhere else. But SSG seems to be aware of its immunity against this, because it's LOTRO. Tolkien has saved this games ### countless times over. That is the only conclusion I can come to, because I cannot justify these SSG advocates being so blind to the issues we all face. You're right, many of them don't deal with the problems we do, but 0 communication with wastes lag for days... It didn't only mess with raiders. But then again, they must have been in North Downs or Shire or something. Then we all explode how Mordor is coming out too soon, it's not done, has too many bugs and they just go and buy the Ultimate bundle, because it's LOTRO. So sad. People are admitted into rehab for less.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    Wales, United Kingdom
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    8,609
    Quote Originally Posted by maartena View Post
    If I was a blue name, I wouldn't answer you either. Respect is a two-way street. You have shown little reason for Cordovan to WANT to answer you..... so why should he?
    Maybe because he is the community manager? I won't jump onto the bandwagon of calling the team names or screaming in their faces, but . . . there are a lot of people on these forums asking questions in a polite way. One does not totally ignore the whole barrel for the sake of a couple of bad apples. All that does is make more apples turn bad. Silence kills, it eventually gets to everyone, even polite, friendly and approachable people.

    I'd really like some answers on the questions being raised, but I'm not going to scream my head off for them. They are either interested in what I think about all this as a player, or they're not. Me making demands for answers - won't change that, but them, refusing to talk, especially if it's because someone else around here has ticked them off, won't make me rush out to offer them support when it's due either. Like you said - two way street.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalphor View Post
    And you feel like you've been given an abundance of respect with the conduct of SSG towards the player base?
    Wastes lag - 0 communication.
    Mordor release - 0 communication.
    Armour sets, captain being the first one mentioned when Throne came out - 0 communication.
    Lootboxes - Deceitful communication.
    The expansion will cost like previous ones - Yeah, right.
    You'll get a cluster. - 2 instances.
    We prepared the end to the epic story for 10 years. - 15 minutes of running around and done.
    Tactical classes dps/heals scaled badly and crystals had no effect - 0 communication.
    Creeps complaining, rightfully. - We'll get to it eventually.
    Thank you for feedback on BR. - Nevermind, we'll beta test it on live first.
    Mordor trailer. - What trailer?
    Where are hidden threats? - Hidden in some future update, still not fixed. But hey, you got bugged scourges!!!

    Nailed it! Thank you.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalphor View Post
    And you feel like you've been given an abundance of respect with the conduct of SSG towards the player base?
    Wastes lag - 0 communication.
    Mordor release - 0 communication.
    Armour sets, captain being the first one mentioned when Throne came out - 0 communication.
    Lootboxes - Deceitful communication.
    The expansion will cost like previous ones - Yeah, right.
    You'll get a cluster. - 2 instances.
    We prepared the end to the epic story for 10 years. - 15 minutes of running around and done.
    Tactical classes dps/heals scaled badly and crystals had no effect - 0 communication.
    Creeps complaining, rightfully. - We'll get to it eventually.
    Thank you for feedback on BR. - Nevermind, we'll beta test it on live first.
    Mordor trailer. - What trailer?
    Where are hidden threats? - Hidden in some future update, still not fixed. But hey, you got bugged scourges!!!
    Very good, this is spot on. Let me add one.

    Lootboxes dropping BiS items is a bug - Actually we like that bug, we will add more BiS items in there to goad in sheeps and make easy money.
    Last edited by Araphorn; Oct 06 2017 at 03:44 AM.


  5. #30
    Join Date
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    1,446
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalphor View Post
    We prepared the end to the epic story for 10 years. - 15 minutes of running around and done.
    This is true: I began thinking about how we'd handle the destruction of the Ring almost ten years ago, back when the world was much smaller (and LOTRO hadn't crossed the Misty Mountains yet!). Premature? Probably: the Fellowship was still in Rivendell, and there was no guarantee that we'd even have the opportunity to move them much further on their journey, let alone all the way to Mordor. But think about it I did; it would have been harder to make me not think about it, even back then!

    It seemed clear to me that there were two important goals, and maybe those goals were at odds. First, the Quest of the Ring really belonged to Frodo and Sam (and Gollum), and involving the player in the actual destruction of the Ring would be a mistake. It had to remain their accomplishment, which means it had to progress essentially as described in the book; no having the player jump out from behind a rock and pushing Gollum into the Fire, or firing catapults at the Nazgul to keep them from reaching the Mountain, or following them up the Stairs and freeing the Ringbearers from the Orc patrol they (temporarily) join. It's their Quest, and seeing it through needed to be up to them. We should still see it, because of How Important That Moment Is, so sessionplay was the clear solution. Not as Frodo or Sam, though; even as far back as 2007 I knew what I wanted. If you play as Gollum, not only do you get to see inside the Sammath Naur, but you also get to be involved in the actual destruction of the Ring in a way that really appealed to me. I've been telling almost every new member that joins the Content Team, for going on nine or ten years, that I want the player to be responsible for Gollum's last act as Ringbearer: a /dance at the edge of the Fire is just the thing. You get to be responsible for destroying the Ring, but in a way that doesn't contradict the source material. I love it.

    The second important goal is that even though it's Frodo's journey, by now we've invested so much time in our own characters that I wanted to find a way for *our own characters* to be involved at Mount Doom. Just watching from the Black Gate, while completely believable, doesn't have the same impact as setting foot on the slopes of Orodruin does -- but that's not even the real reason to go with Gandalf and Gwaihir for the rescue. No, the real reason is that in order for Frodo to trust our characters enough to share the events that happened inside Sammath Naur, I needed a way to make our characters *relevant* to Frodo again. Why would Frodo share the Very Much Confidential information of what exactly happened inside Orodruin, the moment of his deepest shame, with our characters... if the last time he saw us was on Cerin Amroth in Lothlorien, and he saw us one time before that, in Rivendell? We're almost nobody to him. But if we're there at the end, if we saw some of what he saw, if he associates us with the slopes of Orodruin, if we have some shared experience... that's different.

    Lots of these plans were noodling around in my head since 2007 or 2008, although active development of Book 9 was going on for about a year in advance of Mordor - it sounds like a lot for fifteen minutes of gameplay, I know it, but that's the curse of the game designer. Everything takes longer than you think it does. Could I have bloated out the length of Book 9 with lots more combat at the Black Gate, or fireball-dodging on Mount Doom? Maybe. I don't think that would have made the experience better, though. I did have to chuckle at a few of the streams and videos I've watched of people being surprised at the conclusion of Book 9: when players saw how far we progressed the storyline to in the Battle of the Black Gate, how much longer did they really think the Ring was going to last? It gets destroyed mere minutes after that, and Tolkien himself covers the end of Frodo and Sam's journey in very few pages.

    I'd be interested in compiling (or seeing someone's attempt at compiling!) a chronological list of the quests in LOTRO that tell the story of the One Ring. I suspect that when they're played in sequence, Book 9 probably works better as the conclusion to a much longer story than it does when played as the individual standalone it was released as.

    MoL

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by MadeOfLions View Post
    Lots of these plans were noodling around in my head since 2007 or 2008, although active development of Book 9 was going on for about a year in advance of Mordor - it sounds like a lot for fifteen minutes of gameplay, I know it, but that's the curse of the game designer. Everything takes longer than you think it does. Could I have bloated out the length of Book 9 with lots more combat at the Black Gate, or fireball-dodging on Mount Doom? Maybe. I don't think that would have made the experience better, though. I did have to chuckle at a few of the streams and videos I've watched of people being surprised at the conclusion of Book 9: when players saw how far we progressed the storyline to in the Battle of the Black Gate, how much longer did they really think the Ring was going to last? It gets destroyed mere minutes after that, and Tolkien himself covers the end of Frodo and Sam's journey in very few pages.

    I'd be interested in compiling (or seeing someone's attempt at compiling!) a chronological list of the quests in LOTRO that tell the story of the One Ring. I suspect that when they're played in sequence, Book 9 probably works better as the conclusion to a much longer story than it does when played as the individual standalone it was released as.

    MoL
    I can understand your plight there, but for some of us it was very anticlimactic to hear about it in various interviews, anniversary, etc. and then have it done in 6 kills in preparation to it, 1 skill as gollum (wish I had that dps!!!) and 2 emotes (saving Frodo and /dance), rest just running from one NPC to another around Cormalen. And you're right, book 9 does look better when not played as a stand-alone update, but it was one and it wasn't made like it, more focus was put on the part of the whole. The book wasn't even a chapter, it was a page. People were waiting for Mordor for 10+ years, we were at the gates waiting for the end of the one ring, we weren't in Bree waiting for the book to be written so we could continue. I know you did more than anyone else probably could have, Voltron, but I think you also understand our side...
    Anyway, you are probably one of the very few people on the team we can say 'thank you' to and really mean it. Except for being one very sneaky son of a... burglar with some of the timer/emote quests.

  7. #32
    Join Date
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    First off, as a Founder and Lifetimer who came on-board from DDO, let me say that your presentation of the destruction of the One Ring was truly masterful.
    I'm a long-time High-Fantasy and Science Fiction reader, and have quite a few friends who are successful, award-winning authors in both categories.
    You certainly deserve an award for your visualizations.

    Holding the Phial of Galadriel aloft as a beacon for the Eagles brought tears to my eyes (rembering that instance still does) - hard to describe the immersion of that moment.


    Quote Originally Posted by MadeOfLions View Post
    I'd be interested in compiling (or seeing someone's attempt at compiling!) a chronological list of the quests in LOTRO that tell the story of the One Ring. I suspect that when they're played in sequence, Book 9 probably works better as the conclusion to a much longer story than it does when played as the individual standalone it was released as.

    MoL
    I'm not certain what you are looking for here.
    Over at the WIKI we do have the entire EPIC story line available for reading: https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Epic_Quests
    Bill Magill Mac Player Founder/Lifetimer
    Old Timers Guild - Gladden
    Sr. Editor LOTRO-Wiki.com

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    Valwood - Dwarf RK (81)

    Valhunt - Dwarf Hunter (71)
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    "Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
    All about the fun!"


  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by zipfile View Post
    I find it funny how you are visible here and replying to the topic of a purchase, but when there are 3 threads calling out for certain people to reply, it's all quiet.
    Glad I spent my 40$ on beer and ESO.

    Edit: So, about 20 mins to respond to that. Let's see if you'll make a response...
    What would a response in those threads yield? A pat on the back? More people crying that they're going to cancel their subs, or that they don't have active subs but everybody else should cancel in protest? Cordovan handles public relations, he has no authority on what goes into or comes out of the game. He's just the one that accepts the lashes from the unsatisfied, more vocal members of the community.

    For someone who's so glad to have spent their money on beer and ESO, why are you lurking in the LOTRO forums? Because you love lotro and can't help yourself!
    .

    Gulz posting on the wrong account.

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by MadeOfLions View Post

    The second important goal is that even though it's Frodo's journey, by now we've invested so much time in our own characters that I wanted to find a way for *our own characters* to be involved at Mount Doom. Just watching from the Black Gate, while completely believable, doesn't have the same impact as setting foot on the slopes of Orodruin does -- but that's not even the real reason to go with Gandalf and Gwaihir for the rescue. No, the real reason is that in order for Frodo to trust our characters enough to share the events that happened inside Sammath Naur, I needed a way to make our characters *relevant* to Frodo again. Why would Frodo share the Very Much Confidential information of what exactly happened inside Orodruin, the moment of his deepest shame, with our characters... if the last time he saw us was on Cerin Amroth in Lothlorien, and he saw us one time before that, in Rivendell? We're almost nobody to him. But if we're there at the end, if we saw some of what he saw, if he associates us with the slopes of Orodruin, if we have some shared experience... that's different.

    Lots of these plans were noodling around in my head since 2007 or 2008, although active development of Book 9 was going on for about a year in advance of Mordor - it sounds like a lot for fifteen minutes of gameplay, I know it, but that's the curse of the game designer. Everything takes longer than you think it does. Could I have bloated out the length of Book 9 with lots more combat at the Black Gate, or fireball-dodging on Mount Doom? Maybe. I don't think that would have made the experience better, though. I did have to chuckle at a few of the streams and videos I've watched of people being surprised at the conclusion of Book 9: when players saw how far we progressed the storyline to in the Battle of the Black Gate, how much longer did they really think the Ring was going to last? It gets destroyed mere minutes after that, and Tolkien himself covers the end of Frodo and Sam's journey in very few pages.


    First of all, thank you, MoL for how you developed the closing of the Epic story line. In the ways that you described above, I (speaking only for myself) feel that it worked very well.

    What seemed most disappointing to me was not so much the details of each quest...but the overall sense of things not being part of a powerful conclusion. In Tolkien's writings THE big event was the destruction of the Ring. And yet, for us in LOTRO it didn't feel that way. Instead it seemed like, "ok, got that part done, here's a nice lava end table, now on to Big Bad Mordor!" There didn't seem to be enough of a conclusion in an epic kind of way. Perhaps if there would have been a sizable break in real time between the destruction of the Ring and the release of Mordor it would have been more powerful (allowing us to feel what had FINALLY been accomplished). But since the two were linked so closely in real time together...it just seemed like one slid right into the other...which minimized the effect of the former.

    As always, these are just my personal reflections...and I thank you once again for all the passion and accountability you continue to bring to LOTRO.

    Keep up the good work, my friend.
    Last edited by Narthalion; Oct 06 2017 at 01:47 PM.

  10. #35
    Thank you MoL for your input and thoughts, it is very valued. I wish we could get similar interaction form other devs as well.

    About Epic, let me copy my original comments from this thread: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...16#post7757016

    Just went through the Epic conclusion.

    It was a let-down to put it nicely. It felt very rushed and very obviously it was put together with minimal effort. Some notes:
    - It was mostly just video cut scenes, very little actual playing
    - Was there a battle of Morannon still? I had to kill couple of enemies and that's it.
    - Frodo's bower in the woods was using background audio from MT House of Healing (echos, coughing and all), real immersion killer.
    - Cormallen felt like I was in funeral. All just spread around the field standing still, no talking, no celebration, no-one cheering, nothing.
    - Final quest was the most obvious: go talk to each character separately, they want to say something. Come on! Final quest of all the Epic books and you take the easiest possible way out.

  11. #36
    Join Date
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    551
    Quote Originally Posted by GULENDUR View Post
    What would a response in those threads yield? A pat on the back? More people crying that they're going to cancel their subs, or that they don't have active subs but everybody else should cancel in protest? Cordovan handles public relations, he has no authority on what goes into or comes out of the game. He's just the one that accepts the lashes from the unsatisfied, more vocal members of the community.

    For someone who's so glad to have spent their money on beer and ESO, why are you lurking in the LOTRO forums? Because you love lotro and can't help yourself!
    I also lurk in:

    Counter-Strike
    League of Legends
    Titanfall
    GTA V
    World of Tanks
    War Thunder

    And yet, I have 0 desire to play them in their current states. But I still love watching games, keeping up-to-date on stuff, praising or damning whatever happens. No different than here. Draw your on conclusion from that.

    Best of luck with roleplaying a suave hobbit merchant in depth of Mordor.
    "Not all those who wander are lost....some are so stubborn that they always think they're going in the right direction."

    "The 4th age is the store age" - Hetweith

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Croatia
    Posts
    551
    Quote Originally Posted by MadeOfLions View Post
    This is true: I began thinking about how we'd handle the destruction of the Ring almost ten years ago, back when the world was much smaller (and LOTRO hadn't crossed the Misty Mountains yet!). Premature? Probably: the Fellowship was still in Rivendell, and there was no guarantee that we'd even have the opportunity to move them much further on their journey, let alone all the way to Mordor. But think about it I did; it would have been harder to make me not think about it, even back then!

    It seemed clear to me that there were two important goals, and maybe those goals were at odds. First, the Quest of the Ring really belonged to Frodo and Sam (and Gollum), and involving the player in the actual destruction of the Ring would be a mistake. It had to remain their accomplishment, which means it had to progress essentially as described in the book; no having the player jump out from behind a rock and pushing Gollum into the Fire, or firing catapults at the Nazgul to keep them from reaching the Mountain, or following them up the Stairs and freeing the Ringbearers from the Orc patrol they (temporarily) join. It's their Quest, and seeing it through needed to be up to them. We should still see it, because of How Important That Moment Is, so sessionplay was the clear solution. Not as Frodo or Sam, though; even as far back as 2007 I knew what I wanted. If you play as Gollum, not only do you get to see inside the Sammath Naur, but you also get to be involved in the actual destruction of the Ring in a way that really appealed to me. I've been telling almost every new member that joins the Content Team, for going on nine or ten years, that I want the player to be responsible for Gollum's last act as Ringbearer: a /dance at the edge of the Fire is just the thing. You get to be responsible for destroying the Ring, but in a way that doesn't contradict the source material. I love it.

    The second important goal is that even though it's Frodo's journey, by now we've invested so much time in our own characters that I wanted to find a way for *our own characters* to be involved at Mount Doom. Just watching from the Black Gate, while completely believable, doesn't have the same impact as setting foot on the slopes of Orodruin does -- but that's not even the real reason to go with Gandalf and Gwaihir for the rescue. No, the real reason is that in order for Frodo to trust our characters enough to share the events that happened inside Sammath Naur, I needed a way to make our characters *relevant* to Frodo again. Why would Frodo share the Very Much Confidential information of what exactly happened inside Orodruin, the moment of his deepest shame, with our characters... if the last time he saw us was on Cerin Amroth in Lothlorien, and he saw us one time before that, in Rivendell? We're almost nobody to him. But if we're there at the end, if we saw some of what he saw, if he associates us with the slopes of Orodruin, if we have some shared experience... that's different.

    Lots of these plans were noodling around in my head since 2007 or 2008, although active development of Book 9 was going on for about a year in advance of Mordor - it sounds like a lot for fifteen minutes of gameplay, I know it, but that's the curse of the game designer. Everything takes longer than you think it does. Could I have bloated out the length of Book 9 with lots more combat at the Black Gate, or fireball-dodging on Mount Doom? Maybe. I don't think that would have made the experience better, though. I did have to chuckle at a few of the streams and videos I've watched of people being surprised at the conclusion of Book 9: when players saw how far we progressed the storyline to in the Battle of the Black Gate, how much longer did they really think the Ring was going to last? It gets destroyed mere minutes after that, and Tolkien himself covers the end of Frodo and Sam's journey in very few pages.

    I'd be interested in compiling (or seeing someone's attempt at compiling!) a chronological list of the quests in LOTRO that tell the story of the One Ring. I suspect that when they're played in sequence, Book 9 probably works better as the conclusion to a much longer story than it does when played as the individual standalone it was released as.

    MoL
    Thank you for all the years of entertainment you've provided to the game, I cannot thank you enough. I love your story writings, and I hope you are given the opportunity to make all your visions a LOTRO reality. <3

    Rest of the devs are bleh.
    "Not all those who wander are lost....some are so stubborn that they always think they're going in the right direction."

    "The 4th age is the store age" - Hetweith

  13. #38
    Join Date
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    Alabama
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    715
    Quote Originally Posted by MadeOfLions View Post
    This is true: I began thinking about how we'd handle the destruction of the Ring almost ten years ago, back when the world was much smaller (and LOTRO hadn't crossed the Misty Mountains yet!). Premature? Probably: the Fellowship was still in Rivendell, and there was no guarantee that we'd even have the opportunity to move them much further on their journey, let alone all the way to Mordor. But think about it I did; it would have been harder to make me not think about it, even back then!

    It seemed clear to me that there were two important goals, and maybe those goals were at odds. First, the Quest of the Ring really belonged to Frodo and Sam (and Gollum), and involving the player in the actual destruction of the Ring would be a mistake. It had to remain their accomplishment, which means it had to progress essentially as described in the book; no having the player jump out from behind a rock and pushing Gollum into the Fire, or firing catapults at the Nazgul to keep them from reaching the Mountain, or following them up the Stairs and freeing the Ringbearers from the Orc patrol they (temporarily) join. It's their Quest, and seeing it through needed to be up to them. We should still see it, because of How Important That Moment Is, so sessionplay was the clear solution. Not as Frodo or Sam, though; even as far back as 2007 I knew what I wanted. If you play as Gollum, not only do you get to see inside the Sammath Naur, but you also get to be involved in the actual destruction of the Ring in a way that really appealed to me. I've been telling almost every new member that joins the Content Team, for going on nine or ten years, that I want the player to be responsible for Gollum's last act as Ringbearer: a /dance at the edge of the Fire is just the thing. You get to be responsible for destroying the Ring, but in a way that doesn't contradict the source material. I love it.

    The second important goal is that even though it's Frodo's journey, by now we've invested so much time in our own characters that I wanted to find a way for *our own characters* to be involved at Mount Doom. Just watching from the Black Gate, while completely believable, doesn't have the same impact as setting foot on the slopes of Orodruin does -- but that's not even the real reason to go with Gandalf and Gwaihir for the rescue. No, the real reason is that in order for Frodo to trust our characters enough to share the events that happened inside Sammath Naur, I needed a way to make our characters *relevant* to Frodo again. Why would Frodo share the Very Much Confidential information of what exactly happened inside Orodruin, the moment of his deepest shame, with our characters... if the last time he saw us was on Cerin Amroth in Lothlorien, and he saw us one time before that, in Rivendell? We're almost nobody to him. But if we're there at the end, if we saw some of what he saw, if he associates us with the slopes of Orodruin, if we have some shared experience... that's different.

    Lots of these plans were noodling around in my head since 2007 or 2008, although active development of Book 9 was going on for about a year in advance of Mordor - it sounds like a lot for fifteen minutes of gameplay, I know it, but that's the curse of the game designer. Everything takes longer than you think it does. Could I have bloated out the length of Book 9 with lots more combat at the Black Gate, or fireball-dodging on Mount Doom? Maybe. I don't think that would have made the experience better, though. I did have to chuckle at a few of the streams and videos I've watched of people being surprised at the conclusion of Book 9: when players saw how far we progressed the storyline to in the Battle of the Black Gate, how much longer did they really think the Ring was going to last? It gets destroyed mere minutes after that, and Tolkien himself covers the end of Frodo and Sam's journey in very few pages.

    I'd be interested in compiling (or seeing someone's attempt at compiling!) a chronological list of the quests in LOTRO that tell the story of the One Ring. I suspect that when they're played in sequence, Book 9 probably works better as the conclusion to a much longer story than it does when played as the individual standalone it was released as.

    MoL
    To be honest, I think finishing the epic would've worked better at the ending of the Waste region. The placement of the epic at the very beginning of Mordor ends up making it seem inconsequential.
    Eredor-Champion, Ereworn-Minstrel, Ereshorn-Runekeeper, Eresworn-Hunter, Eremourn-Burglar, Erehorn-Captain, Erelorn-Warden, Eretorn-Lore-Master, Erescorn-Guardian... And Erecorn-Master Farmer

  14. #39
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    UK
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    1,378
    Quote Originally Posted by maartena View Post
    If I was a blue name, I wouldn't answer you either. Respect is a two-way street. You have shown little reason for Cordovan to WANT to answer you..... so why should he?
    This guy is the propaganda supremo of SSG. Every week the guy struggles to avoid the criticisms on twitch even has to have the streamers running defence for him. He ignores posts that reveal the SSG FUBAR of an expansion release, he is blatantly not doing his job if he doesn't address our issues. He doesn't know the game and is supposed to be our conduit to the devs. I don't doubt he works damn hard but I'd rather we had a full time EP and CM. At least he's putting more game time in than the rest of SSG!

    Staff and service degrade year by year because mistakes are brushed aside and left unfixed to piss off the players. No you can't please everyone but why try to piss off every player group at some point along the way?

    He has time to jump on one thread to maybe make a sale, didn't work, yet chose to not contribute to many threads that maybe had the consequence of many lost subs and store sales. And the reason is his position was untenable.

    And I can say this because he has a thick hide and is able to take it and loves his work.

    Mac

    P.S. And I specifically use the term "highlighted" as it means to standout amongst others. Very poor defence.

  15. #40
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    My thoughts at the time of finishing off the Black gate and rescue Epic was that it was a bit short and the running around Ithilien a bit tedious. However both book and film did the same for me beyond the destruction of the ring.

    I would have liked the eagle flight graphics to have been a little crisper.

    I still believe MoL is locked in a dungeon and forced to write the game, I have no wish to release him though.

    But the epic finishing so early smelt of gating behind a cash wall. It's like there was a strategy meeting and every way you could possibly block any one who didn't divvy up, from getting anything out of Mordor was thought of. Who could possibly have predicted ash farms after the Wastes?

    MoL if you had a hand in doing the crafting update you did a bad job, you should know this and if you didn't know it was bad someone needs to tell you where you went wrong so it doesn't happen again. If you needed more time to complete it you should have asked your line manager, you should have raised it with your EP if you felt it needed more work. If you were oblivious to how badly thought out it seems to us you shouldn't be doing craft updates. If you had a hand in it.
    /sarcasm off

    Mac


    P.S. /sarcasm on - because frankly most of my posts are dripping with it so it seems disingenuous to think I could switch it off for any relevant period.
    Last edited by Macdui; Oct 06 2017 at 07:50 PM.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by MadeOfLions View Post
    This is true: I began thinking about how we'd handle the destruction of the Ring almost ten years ago, back when the world was much smaller (and LOTRO hadn't crossed the Misty Mountains yet!). Premature? Probably: the Fellowship was still in Rivendell, and there was no guarantee that we'd even have the opportunity to move them much further on their journey, let alone all the way to Mordor. But think about it I did; it would have been harder to make me not think about it, even back then!

    It seemed clear to me that there were two important goals, and maybe those goals were at odds. First, the Quest of the Ring really belonged to Frodo and Sam (and Gollum), and involving the player in the actual destruction of the Ring would be a mistake. It had to remain their accomplishment, which means it had to progress essentially as described in the book; no having the player jump out from behind a rock and pushing Gollum into the Fire, or firing catapults at the Nazgul to keep them from reaching the Mountain, or following them up the Stairs and freeing the Ringbearers from the Orc patrol they (temporarily) join. It's their Quest, and seeing it through needed to be up to them. We should still see it, because of How Important That Moment Is, so sessionplay was the clear solution. Not as Frodo or Sam, though; even as far back as 2007 I knew what I wanted. If you play as Gollum, not only do you get to see inside the Sammath Naur, but you also get to be involved in the actual destruction of the Ring in a way that really appealed to me. I've been telling almost every new member that joins the Content Team, for going on nine or ten years, that I want the player to be responsible for Gollum's last act as Ringbearer: a /dance at the edge of the Fire is just the thing. You get to be responsible for destroying the Ring, but in a way that doesn't contradict the source material. I love it.

    The second important goal is that even though it's Frodo's journey, by now we've invested so much time in our own characters that I wanted to find a way for *our own characters* to be involved at Mount Doom. Just watching from the Black Gate, while completely believable, doesn't have the same impact as setting foot on the slopes of Orodruin does -- but that's not even the real reason to go with Gandalf and Gwaihir for the rescue. No, the real reason is that in order for Frodo to trust our characters enough to share the events that happened inside Sammath Naur, I needed a way to make our characters *relevant* to Frodo again. Why would Frodo share the Very Much Confidential information of what exactly happened inside Orodruin, the moment of his deepest shame, with our characters... if the last time he saw us was on Cerin Amroth in Lothlorien, and he saw us one time before that, in Rivendell? We're almost nobody to him. But if we're there at the end, if we saw some of what he saw, if he associates us with the slopes of Orodruin, if we have some shared experience... that's different.

    Lots of these plans were noodling around in my head since 2007 or 2008, although active development of Book 9 was going on for about a year in advance of Mordor - it sounds like a lot for fifteen minutes of gameplay, I know it, but that's the curse of the game designer. Everything takes longer than you think it does. Could I have bloated out the length of Book 9 with lots more combat at the Black Gate, or fireball-dodging on Mount Doom? Maybe. I don't think that would have made the experience better, though. I did have to chuckle at a few of the streams and videos I've watched of people being surprised at the conclusion of Book 9: when players saw how far we progressed the storyline to in the Battle of the Black Gate, how much longer did they really think the Ring was going to last? It gets destroyed mere minutes after that, and Tolkien himself covers the end of Frodo and Sam's journey in very few pages.

    I'd be interested in compiling (or seeing someone's attempt at compiling!) a chronological list of the quests in LOTRO that tell the story of the One Ring. I suspect that when they're played in sequence, Book 9 probably works better as the conclusion to a much longer story than it does when played as the individual standalone it was released as.

    MoL
    Interesting as this is, it doesn't give the true answer does it?
    The correct answer (and the one we would have respected but know you can't give) should
    have been that we said we wouldn't gate the epic behind a paid expansion again and so you
    think you are clever by offering a token effort and then create an epic substitute in order to
    try and fool folks.

    Please stop the flannel and either flout the promise and man up, or stick to the promise and
    man up. This ever series of misdirection is laughable.

    We all get that this new business needs to make cash, we realise that things change. At least
    be up front with us and say so.

    Your dreams and aspirations in 2007 are fascinating insight but what we are really anxious
    about is what other slights of hand do you have lined up for us?
    ----A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything----

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Sarasota, FL, USA
    Posts
    3,278
    Quote Originally Posted by MadeOfLions View Post
    This is true: I began thinking about how we'd handle the destruction of the Ring almost ten years ago, back when the world was much smaller
    Thanks for all of your excellent work over the years. Above all else, your contribution to melding the LotR story and Turbine/SSG's stories together was the most important and unique asset LotRO had.
    << Co-founder of The Firebrands of Caruja on Landroval >>
    Ceolford of Dale, Dorolin, Tordag, Garberend Bellheather, Colfinn Belegorn, Garmo Butterbuckles, Calensarn Nimlos, Langtiriel, Bergteir


  18. #43
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Gallifrey. I need a Jelly Baby.
    Posts
    19,775
    Quote Originally Posted by auximenes View Post
    Thanks for all of your excellent work over the years. Above all else, your contribution to melding the LotR story and Turbine/SSG's stories together was the most important and unique asset LotRO had.
    Agreed. I've absolutely loved the story lines in this game. I think my favorite one is that female elf realizing she loved a man from Rohan, only to find she realized her feelings too late.

    The turtle soup quest line in Bree was a riot lol!
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

 

 
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