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  1. #1
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    Exclamation Vastin/FriendlyHat, we need to talk about Grind

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    First of all, this thread went through a big change in its suggestions, so, for now, please disregard any of my posts that were made before today (09/29/17), except for this one.

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    Hello, I have been testing the new instances and I know that the loot tables are not ready yet, but there is something crucial that I need to talk about.
    In previous instances like Silent Street, for example, you would have to run the same instance and t2c over and over again, and to get a rare item you could get it in the first run or in the 200th.
    While I do understand that nothing should be easy, specially when you are running a tier 2 challenge instance, and I know that the thought behind this is that you want to preserve the longevity of those instances you're releasing, but at the same time, you're making it extremely hard on those people that would like to get 3+ toons maxxed out. But there is a solution for that and you don't have to compromise the longevity of the instances.

    The solution is simple: Daily box awarded to those who complete Tier 2 challenge runs.

    That way you still keep people running content for months, but you don't need to make those that have alts really forget about real life to focus on the game.
    Seeing how many of my friends have really been discouraged after running the same instance so many times (over a hundred times) to get an item and never getting anything, it was something that made some of them even leave LOTRO and there was nothing I could do to change their mind.

    My suggestions more specifically is:

    T2C Quests from 3 and 6-man instances once completed, cannot be completed again in that day
    (Those that are still relevant, at least, like Osgiliath/Pelennor/Mordor)

    However you can still repeat the challenge how many times you want, that will not affect if you receive the challenge chests or not
    The challenge quest awards a box similar to the ones awarded in Featured Instances, but their reward is fixed instead random. And you only get one box per day, per instance and per toon.

    To make it clearer, this is not an instance lock or a chest lock!

    Each box awards:

    3 scrolls of empowerment + 1 anfalas star-lit crystal + 1 account-wide barter item
    specific to each instance.

    Example of barter exchanges:

    1 barter item -> 1 Black Steel Key
    2 barter items -> 3 anfalas scrolls of empowerment
    2 barter items -> 1 anfalas star-lit crystal
    10 barter items -> 1 imbued legacy replacement scroll
    10 barter items + Piece of Teal Gear -> Exchange for another gear
    20 barter items -> 1 anfalas crystal of remembrance
    30 barter items -> 1 Piece of Teal Gear
    50 barter items -> Rarest item of the instance
    (if there is an item that is more rare than the teal gear, like the hilt in Silent Street)

    In instances where you can farm it over and over again in a short period (like 10-20 times in a day), eventually people will get sick of those instances, and people who have a lot of free time to play will get the items faster than those with less time, and both of those scenarios lead to less players for newbies to run with. It also raises a mentality on some players that everything should be fast, so many players start to lose patience to explain runs for others or there is too much focus on getting players with max dps, too much competition because the players are in such haste to get their prize. And again, newbies and altaholics are the ones most hurt because of it. With this system in place, you encourage those people who may not have as much time/day, but that still play regularly, to get a chance of getting the rarest items, or people who have alts that otherwise would have to run the same instance 500+ times to get the rarest item for 4 toons, which is completely insane. It also means that people do not feel forced to farm instances (and I say farm because it means doing it over a hundred times in a short period of time) in order to get the rarest item. It encourages people to have patience, but nothing stops them from farming if they are in a real rush.

    People who comment on this thread are welcome to give their opinion on the numbers I provided.


    And devs, check this other thread as well:

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...efore-the-raid
    Last edited by DiogoVP; Nov 20 2017 at 09:20 AM.

  2. #2
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    I dont agree on lock on 3-6 man.

    A drop rate like the old Black Serpent would be fine imho.
    Hilt took me 150 runs, just saying.
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  3. #3
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    Vastin? FriendlyHat?

    I doubt they would read it


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phindecano View Post
    Vastin? FriendlyHat?

    I doubt they would read it

    I was already aware... but hey, I am not gonna change anything if I don't speak.

  5. #5
    Instance locks on 3/6mans IMO would drive another chunk of lotro players away, ATm if you have a hour or 2 and want to grind a instance for gear you can forcing us to only do it once then wait 1 or 3 days to re run that instance is silly, What do you expect level capped players to do with their time. Under your system you login do instance thats it and if you want the gear from say the 6man you dont bother playing again for 3 days.. Terrible idea unless your trying to kill off whats left of lotro

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rialtan View Post
    I dont agree on lock on 3-6 man.

    A drop rate like the old Black Serpent would be fine imho.
    Hilt took me 150 runs, just saying.
    150 runs and you think that's ok? I mean, I have this mentality: merit is what matters the most... the way things work in this game is that based on personal merit, but based on how much time you put into the game, which is ok as long as that time is realistic for most people who are interested in that type of content. Hilt took you 150 runs, each run is what, 20 minutes? 30? I'll be optimistic and say it took you around 20 minutes each run. So you had to put 50 hours on the game to get the hilt for one toon, if you are the kind of healthy person that plays this game 2-3 hours a day... and considering you would spend 1 hour doing other things in the game, if you spent 2 hours a day exclusively doing T2C SS runs, then you would have spent approximately 25 days on that grind for your hilt and it's not that bad, but then we're only looking at one toon here... if you have 4 toons, then it's 100 days, which isn't really bad, but we're considering here that the person is doing the same instance on a challenge level 4-6x a day, which is sickening. Let's compare both realities:

    - No locks:

    Person with 4 toons, spends 20 minutes doing a t2c instance, does that instance six times a day, gets the rarest item for all of his toons in 3 months and 10 days.

    - With locks:

    Person spends 20 minutes doing a t2c instance, does that instance 4 times a day, gets the rarest item for all of his toons in 45 days.

    What's better? I mean, being able to do the instance 150x does not make you a better player than others. If you can do the challenge in 50 runs, then all of the other runs are just gonna be too repetitive and easy.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchys View Post
    Instance locks on 3/6mans IMO would drive another chunk of lotro players away, ATm if you have a hour or 2 and want to grind a instance for gear you can forcing us to only do it once then wait 1 or 3 days to re run that instance is silly, What do you expect level capped players to do with their time. Under your system you login do instance thats it and if you want the gear from say the 6man you dont bother playing again for 3 days.. Terrible idea unless your trying to kill off whats left of lotro
    Of course it wouldn't drive many players away, it would give them more time to get on the real life and it wouldn't kill the game either, because the content would still be relevant for months all the same. Unless you are a really addicted player, then you have a problem.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiogoVP View Post
    Of course it wouldn't drive many players away, it would give them more time to get on the real life and it wouldn't kill the game either, because the content would still be relevant for months all the same. Unless you are a really addicted player, then you have a problem.
    You have to consider that there is more to the game than just one 6-man or one 3-man... having locks on them doesn't make it inviable to do other things. Find more time to help others, the community, create an alt, do some other dailies, there is so much you can do... and there is even so much more that you can do in real life. You shouldn't feel sad that you can have more time to get out of your room.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiogoVP View Post
    150 runs and you think that's ok? I mean, I have this mentality: merit is what matters the most... the way things work in this game is that based on personal merit, but based on how much time you put into the game, which is ok as long as that time is realistic for most people who are interested in that type of content. Hilt took you 150 runs, each run is what, 20 minutes? 30? I'll be optimistic and say it took you around 20 minutes each run. So you had to put 50 hours on the game to get the hilt for one toon, if you are the kind of healthy person that plays this game 2-3 hours a day... and considering you would spend 1 hour doing other things in the game, if you spent 2 hours a day exclusively doing T2C SS runs, then you would have spent approximately 25 days on that grind for your hilt and it's not that bad, but then we're only looking at one toon here... if you have 4 toons, then it's 100 days, which isn't really bad, but we're considering here that the person is doing the same instance on a challenge level 4-6x a day, which is sickening. Let's compare both realities:

    - No locks:

    Person with 4 toons, spends 20 minutes doing a t2c instance, does that instance six times a day, gets the rarest item for all of his toons in 3 months and 10 days.

    - With locks:

    Person spends 20 minutes doing a t2c instance, does that instance 4 times a day, gets the rarest item for all of his toons in 45 days.

    What's better? I mean, being able to do the instance 150x does not make you a better player than others. If you can do the challenge in 50 runs, then all of the other runs are just gonna be too repetitive and easy.
    The points is: let the ppl free to decide how to spend their time.

    To do what you propose you need to have 4 toons geared btw.

    I agree to increase the rarity of some kind of gear...imho t1 shouldnt drops the same gear as t2.

    If you dont wanna compromise longevity of new cluster you have to "force" ppl doing progression. T1 should drops items essential to run t2c etc.
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  10. #10
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    Game should have even more super rares tbh. Items that are behind raid bosses on weekly locks on <10% drop chance. MMOs always need those super rare items. Those were meat and bones of soa loot system. Same for normal instances but since those so few possibilities are limited.

    Also no to the 3/6 man locks.. Theres literally nothing to do if theres locks for 2 instances.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by DiogoVP View Post
    Of course it wouldn't drive many players away, it would give them more time to get on the real life and it wouldn't kill the game either, because the content would still be relevant for months all the same. Unless you are a really addicted player, then you have a problem.

    If players are away doing real life because they now have more time then they arent playing lotro. People that have time and want to do stuff but are locked out will simply find another game, in both cases lotro isnt being played.

    You have to also remember not everyone has 4 alts they want to grind gear on many have 1 main and there is no reason why those should be penalised simply to make your alt gearing easier

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    Game should have even more super rares tbh. Items that are behind raid bosses on weekly locks on <10% drop chance. MMOs always need those super rare items. Those were meat and bones of soa loot system. Same for normal instances but since those so few possibilities are limited.

    Also no to the 3/6 man locks.. Theres literally nothing to do if theres locks for 2 instances.
    They removed things like those cool golden item in Dol Guldur cluster without any reason.

    Agreed....mmos should have tons of rare drop to differentiate players gear and some cool world bosses with nice drops aswell (RTs...please....)
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rialtan View Post
    The points is: let the ppl free to decide how to spend their time.

    To do what you propose you need to have 4 toons geared btw.

    I agree to increase the rarity of some kind of gear...imho t1 shouldnt drops the same gear as t2.

    If you dont wanna compromise longevity of new cluster you have to "force" ppl doing progression. T1 should drops items essential to run t2c etc.
    Some people don't have that choice. Some people want to gear up 4 toons, but they have work and family. I agree with you on t1, t2 differences, my suggestion on locks is exclusively on tier 2.
    I absolutely do not think SSG should encourage unhealthy lifestyles by making someone have to do the same instance 150 times just for one item. Some people have this obsession with getting things fast and spend all day grinding the same instance over and over again. As I said before, if I have done a challenge 50 times, I already know how it works and it's just become too easy for me. So why spend 100+ more runs that are just repetitive and boring? Instances are only interesting for a time, when people do it way too much and in short periods of time, it does become boring, unless you're addicted to playing. As I said, there is more to LOTRO than one 3-man or one 6-man. I think there should be more incentives for older content as well and there are also dailies that you can do outside of those instances. But if people want the choice to live a unhealthy life, that's their decision, but it doesn't mean SSG should encourage it by making people have to leave their real life to focus so much on the game. It's just not healthy and most people have alts. If you don't have alts, maybe start considering making some. You should realize that people with one toon are not the center of the universe. The game must be fair for those that have some alts... after all there are 10 classes and most people do not get happy with just one toon.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiogoVP View Post
    Some people don't have that choice. Some people want to gear up 4 toons, but they have work and family. I agree with you on t1, t2 differences, my suggestion on locks is exclusively on tier 2.
    I absolutely do not think SSG should encourage unhealthy lifestyles by making someone have to do the same instance 150 times just for one item. Some people have this obsession with getting things fast and spend all day grinding the same instance over and over again. As I said before, if I have done a challenge 50 times, I already know how it works and it's just become too easy for me. So why spend 100+ more runs that are just repetitive and boring? Instances are only interesting for a time, when people do it way too much and in short periods of time, it does become boring, unless you're addicted to playing. As I said, there is more to LOTRO than one 3-man or one 6-man. I think there should be more incentives for older content as well and there are also dailies that you can do outside of those instances. But if people want the choice to live a unhealthy life, that's their decision, but it doesn't mean SSG should encourage it by making people have to leave their real life to focus so much on the game. It's just not healthy and most people have alts. If you don't have alts, maybe start considering making some. You should realize that people with one toon are not the center of the universe. The game must be fair for those that have some alts... after all there are 10 classes and most people do not get happy with just one toon.
    by the way I changed the 6-man lock from 3 to 2 days.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiogoVP View Post
    Some people don't have that choice. Some people want to gear up 4 toons, but they have work and family. I agree with you on t1, t2 differences, my suggestion on locks is exclusively on tier 2.
    I absolutely do not think SSG should encourage unhealthy lifestyles by making someone have to do the same instance 150 times just for one item. Some people have this obsession with getting things fast and spend all day grinding the same instance over and over again. As I said before, if I have done a challenge 50 times, I already know how it works and it's just become too easy for me. So why spend 100+ more runs that are just repetitive and boring? Instances are only interesting for a time, when people do it way too much and in short periods of time, it does become boring, unless you're addicted to playing. As I said, there is more to LOTRO than one 3-man or one 6-man. I think there should be more incentives for older content as well and there are also dailies that you can do outside of those instances. But if people want the choice to live a unhealthy life, that's their decision, but it doesn't mean SSG should encourage it by making people have to leave their real life to focus so much on the game. It's just not healthy and most people have alts. If you don't have alts, maybe start considering making some. You should realize that people with one toon are not the center of the universe. The game must be fair for those that have some alts... after all there are 10 classes and most people do not get happy with just one toon.
    Sorry but this is an MMO...why a casual (not in offensive way) should have the same items as a raider?

    This isnt elitism, is simply how this kind of game works...

    Hard work, progression, time, skill = reward

    Or just gives everyone everything and kill any sense of challenge->reward
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by DiogoVP View Post
    Hello, I have been testing the new instances and I know that the loot tables are not ready yet, but there is something crucial that I need to talk about.
    In previous instances like Silent Street, for example, you would have to run the same instance and t2c over and over again, and to get a rare item you could get it in the first run or in the 200th.
    While I do understand that nothing should be easy, specially when you are running a tier 2 challenge instance, and I know that the thought behind this is that you want to preserve the longevity of those instances you're releasing, but at the same time, you're making it extremely hard on those people that would like to get 3+ toons maxxed out. But there is a solution for that and you don't have to compromise the longevity of the instances.

    The solution is simple: Instance lock + Increased drop rate of rare items.

    That way you still keep people running content for months, but you don't need to make those that have alts really forget about real life to focus on the game.
    Seeing how many of my friends have really been discouraged after running the same instance so many times to get an item and never getting anything, it was something that made some of them even leave LOTRO and there was nothing I could do to change their mind.

    My suggestions of locks are:

    1 day for T2C 3-man instances
    (Those that are still relevant, at least, like Osgiliath/Pelennor/Mordor)
    3 days for T2C 6-man instances
    (Those that are still relevant, at least, like Osgiliath/Pelennor/Mordor)
    1 week for all T2C Raids
    (Which already happens for most raids)

    The drop rate of the rare items on those instances would also be raised significantly, but not to the point where everyone gets the rarest item fast, after all you want longevity.

    In instances where you can farm it over and over again in a short period (like 10-20 times in a day), eventually people will get sick of those instances, and people who have a lot of free time to play will get the items faster than those with less time, and both of those scenarios lead to less players for newbies to run with. It also raises a mentality on some players that everything should be fast, so many players start to lose patience to explain runs for others or there is too much focus on getting players with max dps, too much competition because the players are in such haste to get their prize. And again, newbies and altaholics are the ones most hurt because of it.

    And check this other thread as well:

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...efore-the-raid
    I don't think there should be locks on 3 or 6 mans. I like the idea of have a method to obtain drops that isn't completely RNG based. Instead of a weekly lock tied to improved drops I'd prefer a weekly quest that provides a barter token. You would be able to use X amount of barter tokens to purchase any drop from that instance. This would give everyone a guaranteed way to eventually get that rare drop. This would prevent players from getting discouraged by a string of bad RNG luck. Players who ran the instance more than once a week would have more spins at the RNG wheel and could gain the item faster. To please people who love rare RNG drops, SSG could make the rare drop version have a slightly higher item level than the barter version.
    Last edited by Mercho; Sep 29 2017 at 01:40 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercho View Post
    I don't think there should be locks on 3 or 6 mans. I like the idea of have a method to obtain drops that isn't completely RNG based. Instead of a weekly lock tied to improved drops I'd prefer a weekly quest that provides a barter token. You would be able to use X amount of barter tokens to purchase any drop from that instance. This would give everyone a guaranteed way to eventually get that rare drop. This would prevent players from getting discouraged by a string of bad RNG luck. Players who ran the instance more than once a weekly would have more spins at the RNG wheel and could gain the item faster. To please people who love rare RNG drops, SSG could make the rare drop version have a slightly higher item level than the barter version.
    This ^^
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  18. #18
    Personally, I think there should only be locks on the raid. Gets locks, log in every 2-3 days. Basically what I already do, except I don't run anything. Alternatively, I see another potential problem as, my kinnies need me for a run, but I am locked on all my toons. Ark pugs are trash btw, so no thanks. Or hell, maybe I just want to run content in this game for once. I think the grind for items, the SS hilt being a perfect example, was and is insane now. However, I'd rather see two options for loot with instances instead of simply not allowing people to run content with locks.

    1) There's the chance for it to drop from a chest. In the case of items like the Hilt, preferably in the form of a box where we can select which one we want (might/agi/will).
    and
    2) Barter tokens. Even if you're extremely unlucky and don't win a roll/it doesn't drop, you can slowly build up barter items to eventually get the item you do need.

    Ex. If SS hilt were scaled, you would have the chance for it to drop from the Chest, or eventually barter for it with Morgul Crests.

    This would A) reduce the total grind for people with 1 toon or many toons and B) Still allow people to farm it if they really need/want to.

    I get what you're saying about the longevity of instances, but once people have gotten all that they need from the instances they stop running it anyway. A better solution would be to continuing incorporating new gear/barter items to keep the instances relevant, up to a certain point. Obviously, SSG doesn't really have the manpower to add tons of new items, but I feel like actually rewarding players for continuing to run content for new rewards, instead of making them run content for one item for their mains/alts, and then stopping after they've gotten all them is a better way to extend the longevity of instances.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchys View Post
    If players are away doing real life because they now have more time then they arent playing lotro. People that have time and want to do stuff but are locked out will simply find another game, in both cases lotro isnt being played.

    You have to also remember not everyone has 4 alts they want to grind gear on many have 1 main and there is no reason why those should be penalised simply to make your alt gearing easier
    I have one character that I focus on. I am a lifer and I do not have to worry about content. I am not even Anorien level in crafting and now find top level crafting-gated gear. Ugh!

    The issue is F2P farming for LPs design for F2P people to buy the content from their ALT grinds of LP's! <-that's the issue right there.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starkorm View Post
    Personally, I think there should only be locks on the raid. Gets locks, log in every 2-3 days. Basically what I already do, except I don't run anything. Alternatively, I see another potential problem as, my kinnies need me for a run, but I am locked on all my toons. Ark pugs are trash btw, so no thanks. Or hell, maybe I just want to run content in this game for once. I think the grind for items, the SS hilt being a perfect example, was and is insane now. However, I'd rather see two options for loot with instances instead of simply not allowing people to run content with locks.

    1) There's the chance for it to drop from a chest. In the case of items like the Hilt, preferably in the form of a box where we can select which one we want (might/agi/will).
    and
    2) Barter tokens. Even if you're extremely unlucky and don't win a roll/it doesn't drop, you can slowly build up barter items to eventually get the item you do need.

    Ex. If SS hilt were scaled, you would have the chance for it to drop from the Chest, or eventually barter for it with Morgul Crests.

    This would A) reduce the total grind for people with 1 toon or many toons and B) Still allow people to farm it if they really need/want to.

    I get what you're saying about the longevity of instances, but once people have gotten all that they need from the instances they stop running it anyway. A better solution would be to continuing incorporating new gear/barter items to keep the instances relevant, up to a certain point. Obviously, SSG doesn't really have the manpower to add tons of new items, but I feel like actually rewarding players for continuing to run content for new rewards, instead of making them run content for one item for their mains/alts, and then stopping after they've gotten all them is a better way to extend the longevity of instances.
    Iirc, Hilt drop rate was around 10%.... /3 versions, /2 (2 players per main stat in the FS)

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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rialtan View Post
    Sorry but this is an MMO...why a casual (not in offensive way) should have the same items as a raider?

    This isnt elitism, is simply how this kind of game works...

    Hard work, progression, time, skill = reward

    Or just gives everyone everything and kill any sense of challenge->reward
    So a person who plays daily for 2-3 hours is a casual?
    Sorry, but no, I don't think so.
    Hard work, progression, time, skill = reward. Absolutely agree. You don't have run the same stuff 150 times to prove that you have skill. I am not saying anything should be easy for anyone, if you don't get that, maybe you should read the OP again. Raids have locks and those are weekly, featured instances are daily, almost every grind is daily or weekly or something in between. If not, then it's a farm and I am against certain kinds of farm because of that sense of haste it gives to some players, because it isn't friendly to people with alts at all and it encourages unhealthy lifestyle. I keep saying it, there is more to the game than 1 6-man and 1 3-man and you can always log on your alts. This is simply my opinion and my suggestion.
    I have 10 characters at 105+, all of them with nearly capped virtues, 84+ class trait points and I actually raided almost every week, except for the months of May and June when things in my life got way too busy.
    I don't have Mordor yet, so when I made this thread I wasn't thinking about me... I hardly get bored, but I know many people who do... and sometimes I do get bored too when I do things so much that it gets so easy and repetitive.
    I think those people that you might say "altaholic" should be considered too. Maybe 10 toons is too much, I have them bc I wanted to experience all of the classes, but if you have 4 or 5 toons, well the grind shouldn't be nearly impossible to you. Let's not forget those people also have to grind other things like scrolls of empowerment, starlit crystals, essences and so much more.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiogoVP View Post
    So a person who plays daily for 2-3 hours is a casual?
    Sorry, but no, I don't think so.
    Hard work, progression, time, skill = reward. Absolutely agree. You don't have run the same stuff 150 times to prove that you have skill. I am not saying anything should be easy for anyone, if you don't get that, maybe you should read the OP again. Raids have locks and those are weekly, featured instances are daily, almost every grind is daily or weekly or something in between. If not, then it's a farm and I am against certain kinds of farm because of that sense of haste it gives to some players, because it isn't friendly to people with alts at all and it encourages unhealthy lifestyle. I keep saying it, there is more to the game than 1 6-man and 1 3-man and you can always log on your alts. This is simply my opinion and my suggestion.
    I have 10 characters at 105+, all of them with nearly capped virtues, 84+ class trait points and I actually raided almost every week, except for the months of May and June when things in my life got way too busy.
    I don't have Mordor yet, so when I made this thread I wasn't thinking about me... I hardly get bored, but I know many people who do... and sometimes I do get bored too when I do things so much that it gets so easy and repetitive.
    I think those people that you might say "altaholic" should be considered too. Maybe 10 toons is too much, I have them bc I wanted to experience all of the classes, but if you have 4 or 5 toons, well the grind shouldn't be nearly impossible to you. Let's not forget those people also have to grind other things like scrolls of empowerment, starlit crystals, essences and so much more.
    Is not the amount of time you spend in the game. I know casual players who plays 5 6 hours (or more) a day...just deeding around, exploring or leveling alts.
    And well...yes...2 or 3 hours are a small amount of time especially on instances/raid release...you have to wipe, wipe, wipe, try and try again.

    Raid got lock cause is a long run and it allows you to save progress...also raid grants you a certain amount of drops...that's why locks are right there.

    I understand you point...i have 4 115 geared toons aswell and i have some altaholic in my kin...but the point doesnt change if you allow ppl to exchange gear through their toons. (like it was in raid and pelennor/osgi instance)
    Rialtan - Rk - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog
    Stragnokka - Champ - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rialtan View Post
    Is not the amount of time you spend in the game. I know casual players who plays 5 6 hours (or more) a day...just deeding around, exploring or leveling alts.
    And well...yes...2 or 3 hours are a small amount of time especially on instances/raid release...you have to wipe, wipe, wipe, try and try again.

    Raid got lock cause is a long run and it allows you to save progress...also raid grants you a certain amount of drops...that's why locks are right there.

    I understand you point...i have 4 115 geared toons aswell and i have some altaholic in my kin...but the point doesnt change if you allow ppl to exchange gear through their toons. (like it was in raid and pelennor/osgi instance)
    So technically, if I spend 3 hours playing, 2 of which I play in groups doing instances/raids, I am not a casual... so we're not really talking about casuals here.
    It is not just about being able to exchange your gear, because by putting those locks in, you also increase the drop rate of certain items. So while you could run SS t2c 600 times for 4 hilts, you could run it 150 times for 4 hilts with a lock system, hypothetically speaking. I kinda understand your point too, but I don't get why people are so bothered by having free time to do other things instead of repeating the same thing over and over again for hours non stop.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercho View Post
    I don't think there should be locks on 3 or 6 mans. I like the idea of have a method to obtain drops that isn't completely RNG based. Instead of a weekly lock tied to improved drops I'd prefer a weekly quest that provides a barter token. You would be able to use X amount of barter tokens to purchase any drop from that instance. This would give everyone a guaranteed way to eventually get that rare drop. This would prevent players from getting discouraged by a string of bad RNG luck. Players who ran the instance more than once a weekly would have more spins at the RNG wheel and could gain the item faster. To please people who love rare RNG drops, SSG could make the rare drop version have a slightly higher item level than the barter version.
    It's a good idea at first, but you never know, it could be just like the old LI scrolls/crystals grind in 2015 which was way too awful. But if done right, your idea could work out as well =)

  25. #25
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    I once personally stated years ago during the Events of Siege of Mirkwood and Rise Isengard and few believed me as usual. The grind shall only get worse. I was right. The grind has increased tremendously to staggering,tedious and incredibly overwhelming levels which became a pain and infuriating game-play experience in steady pace with each expansion andd major update. Lords of the Grind unite, Irony.I'll be completely honest. It is in vain. I am not saying this lightly at all. Let us go back to Siege of Mirkwood (2009-2011)I'll tell thee a brief and short history of LOTRO grind. I'll exclude Moria because grind in Moria is literally walk in the park to Modern LOTRO. Skrimish Grind, Introduction of Scrolls of Empowerment,Skrimishe instances were and are still the most pointless and meaningless add-on. There is not thrilling about Skrimishes,but a Shadow on which followed later on. Raids became tedious, massive amount of Trash mobs within Barad Guldur. Ost Dunoth anyone 2011? Remember the Medalions required to obtain a full set. 2000+ Massive increase. Goodbye to good old Golden age of LOTRO 1 Item piece ~ 1 barter item which was during Vanilla/Moria. I can fill entire page of so tiny changes which have had an impact on LOTRO,but I'll try to shorten it up. Rise of Isengard ~ Audacity/Commendations grind in PVMP, Dull implementation which forced PVMP'ers to grind PVE within PVMP zone, Further LI grind,Star light crystals,new relics,etc. Medalions,marks,Seals grind, its getting higher and higher, we are climbing up, still nothing. Riders of Rohan ~ Mounted combat, INSANE Hytbold landscape grind,Hytbold, Wildermore lunacy,thousands of tokens required, Horrible. reputation grind.Further LI add on ~ Crystal of Remembrance,Level 95 ~BREAKING POINT Class trait points which forever changed the game-play. Class trait points grind. Helm's Deep, Big battles+ Skirmish grind,again PVMP audacity grind once again and it's ongoing even since 2011(ROI). Big battles ~ nothing but improved version of Skirmishes with some advanced mechanics and a bit more complex design. Ultimately a BS with added more of the tedious grind. They should have stick to Classic 3-6-12 main instances. Level 100+ Now we are getting into real talk of Grind. From this moment on ~ We have 3 MAJOR Grind "issues" 1. Essence system/Gear which allowed any player to build an extremely overpowered and versatile char which followed by more grinding for crafting materials, quests for tokens,farming essences and slotting each, OH Essence Reclamation scrolls anyone? 2. imbued LEGENDARY since 2015 ~ Ultra high grind increase , if you thought LI were bad before. Nay. Massive amount of XP required,start lit crystals, and hundreds of EMP scrolls And this is only char. With Every Gondor update until Mordor Landscape grind has been worsened reaching climax with North Ithllinen. Now,now from all what I wrote Imagine it with FLora,aka flower grind. Infused essences,extra this and that. MORDOR~ you know my review. I am not going to repeat myself there,but speaking of Grind in Mordor I am glad they removed Flower collecting. BUT! RNG, Ashes of Gorgorth grind. Sickening amount of PVE grind Ash raids causing lag to everyone on server , slayer deeds 0/400 ,Scourges, Sorry forgot about Roving threats introduced back in 2015. Black steel key grind for 1 box only. Daily quests shall force a player to slay untold amount of mobs for decent number of tokens.Boxes or slaying. It takes hours and hours with only +20 Ashes for Deco Teal or +40 rarely. NOW! This was but a fragment of Lord of the Rings Online. What is the solution? Night impossible ones. There were sooo many changes and add on. From my point of view judging from every single expansion ,SSG mentality and the way they handle things. It's ~ Irreversible. It escalated too much to the point it cannot be truly fixed, no matter the brilliant minds and players giving fantastic ideas. They COULD in theory, but then we have the back-fire effect. They will not risk anything nor they have time,resources or money anymore. The game is almost 11 years old. SSG is aware of all this ,they are using every possible subtle ways and tricks to make players to player more. Its simple. More time spent means more Money for them. They will not do any drastic grind change. There was a but one very minor. Aria of Valar shall give thee class trait points , you don't need to go back and repeat the process. It's a complex circle. Even LP grind is not free as you think it is. Time = Money. Its actually obnoxious and ultra monotonic. AND! only 1 char. You have to really insane if you plan to fully gear multiple characters. The solutions are far from simple as you might think. 1 barter item ~ 1 armour piece from raid, but no it will 1 unique item + dozens of Medalions and then Improved version and Final version, etc. Triple Grind. 2. Forget about Landscape grind reduction, they will never do that, In order to decease the landscape grind reduction they will have to decrease the amount of mobs in zones,reduce the amount of quests,Nerf eventually, but take a look from this perspective, have you ever wondered our classes are so Demi-God overpowered that everything goes so insanely fast. I've seen players blazing through Mordor faster than speed of light, this is again problem from thier side., they granted classes Vala almost level of power, now are back in start. As you might notice, this is such an Incredible Irreversible mess at this point. Now even a Super genius could not fix it.3. Sure Solution are there on paper, will they happen? No. Shall they be slightly polished or revamped in fashion Scrolls of Empoverment Med/Mark decrease from skirmish camp. Possible, but the core will not change. The essence and approach to Grind shall always be the same until the very End. I know its hard to swallow the truth , but from all these years and Untold number of whining posts,threads ,promises.... I saw the thread about Grind decease, It's a fools hope. IMPORTANT ~You must understand, that GAME has escalated to the point of no return. Even SSG cannot fix. <<< They have beaten themselves. It was too much. Damage has been done already. You cannot fix something which is already broken. You can in theory , but you'll completely vanquish everything again Does't make sense ? It does. I told people and community for years Grind only get worse and worse.. Crazy isn't it?Whatever the outcome ,the grind shall always be severe.Imagine it as a Paradox. Apparently s"ound reasoning from true premises", leads to an apparently self-contradictory or logically unacceptable conclusion.For the end, none of this was prevalent in Vanilla or Moria,but nobody is forcing us to grind Game can and it is still very enjoyable with superb story,soundtrack,lore and wonderful world. Enjoy!

 

 
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