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  1. #1
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    The Felak Karâth in Khil's Secret Room

    Has there been any update in the translation of the Felak Karâth runes all over the walls in the secret room in Khil's Father's House?

    I have attempted translation of two of the stanzas? paragraphs? I have noticed common words at the start of each and there abouts but so far all I have is the first two lines of the first one on the wall to the right hand side;

    dhe(THE) - harps - ar - gon - dhe - ?rs - ao <---this part is cutoff and hardly read-able

    dhe - shados - gadher - in - ???

    So..The Harps are gone the something and the shadows gather in something?

    I must give MoL huge kudos for making the most interesting content that is currently around at end game. I know someone translated the Zhelruka runes in the Scholar's Abode. I am wondering if they have also had any success in translating these ones?

    Thank You

  2. #2
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    Unfortunately I haven't gotten that far yet in the Black Book, and the room is still locked for me.

    But feel free to ask for advice on transliterating Felak Karâth (preferably without spoilers for the whole text).

  3. #3
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    Update: I just finished the quest and have begun attempting to translate the Felak Karâth writing. So spoilers are now fine.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velkeirien View Post
    Update: I just finished the quest and have begun attempting to translate the Felak Karâth writing. So spoilers are now fine.
    awesome, will be good to have someone else on the job

    I always thought that 'The Harps' was an incorrection until I heard reference to The Harps in the Ered Mithrin Lorebook

  5. #5
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    I translated the first panel on the left last night, and I would recommend starting there.

    And "the harps" is definitely correct!

  6. #6
    Hi

    I translate this wall :



    It seems to mee that is the last wall of the serie. It's not perfect but the general meaning is clear


    P.S.: Excuse for the errors in English, I'm french (on the serveur Sirannon)

  7. #7
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    Nice work, Kufkhell.

    And it is indeed the end of the text.

    I finished my translation last night, and since you posted your translation for this panel, I'll go ahead and post the (I believe) correct version:
    (spoilers)









    The harps are gone, the fires are out,
    The shadows gather all about,
    Yet from the north and far away
    Still sounds the song of Mountains Grey.

    King or common, fool or clever,
    It lures us always, tempting ever.
    Brothers, can you hear the call
    Of long-lamented Thafar-gathol?

    The first few words of the fifth line are a little tricky. "King Rochomon" is a valid reading, but doesn't make sense. Rather, I think the devs left out a word-separator and substituted the "ch" rune for the "k" rune. This would give "king or common", which is a natural contrast in English and fits the context.

  8. #8
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    Thank you to both of you - amazing translating work so far!

    I’m really looking forward to seeing what the rest of the walls tell us - I (and I’m sure others) will be very grateful if you could write all of your translations here!
    - Taravan, R12 Captain - Tirian, Tanking Guardian - Telperon, Completionist LM -
    - Afranius, R9 WL - Tolobain, R7 Weaver - Vargan, R6 Stalker -

    Ex-Leader of Lost Realm of Imladris - Evernight - Co-Founder of Beauty and the Beasts

  9. #9
    Thank for the corrections, it fit better than "king Rochomon"

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kufkhell View Post
    Hi

    I translate this wall :



    It seems to mee that is the last wall of the serie. It's not perfect but the general meaning is clear


    P.S.: Excuse for the errors in English, I'm french (on the serveur Sirannon)
    Quote Originally Posted by Velkeirien View Post
    Nice work, Kufkhell.

    And it is indeed the end of the text.

    I finished my translation last night, and since you posted your translation for this panel, I'll go ahead and post the (I believe) correct version:
    (spoilers)









    The harps are gone, the fires are out,
    The shadows gather all about,
    Yet from the north and far away
    Still sounds the song of Mountains Grey.

    King or common, fool or clever,
    It lures us always, tempting ever.
    Brothers, can you hear the call
    Of long-lamented Thafar-gathol?

    The first few words of the fifth line are a little tricky. "King Rochomon" is a valid reading, but doesn't make sense. Rather, I think the devs left out a word-separator and substituted the "ch" rune for the "k" rune. This would give "king or common", which is a natural contrast in English and fits the context.
    Amazing work, both of you! Thank you, i hope people appreciate how difficult this is to translate between 3 and in Kufkhell's case, 4 languages!

    Thank you so much, i feel a bit more confident in my abilities now
    I cant wait to see more

  11. #11
    Great stuff! Thanks for sharing

  12. #12
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    I plan to post the full translation on the wiki, once I've made some necessary adjustments to my Felak Karâth font. I'd rather not dump it here in case other people want the fun of translating it.

    That said, there is one part of the text I'm still not quite sure about, and maybe someone here can offer some insight.

    This is the first line of the sixth panel, going left to right around the room:


    My literal transcription of it is:
    "?? sins out stok hav sot"

    for which I believe a partial translation would be:
    "?? since ?? ?? have sought".

    The third word could be a typo for "our", which would give "?? since our stock have sought". "Stock", as in "descendants", could make sense in the context, but seems a really weird choice of words; "stock" is usually reserved for animals, at least in American English.

    The first word is hard to decipher. I think the flat glyphs may be, in order, "â", "y", and "e", but I can't make out the upright glyph at all. My best guess, using the given vowel sounds plus the context, is that it might be meant as "e'er" (contraction of "ever", pronounced like "air"); but the upright glyph does not really resemble the one for "r". Anyone have any alternate suggestions?

  13. #13
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    Awesome work.
    << Co-founder of The Firebrands of Caruja on Landroval >>
    Ceolford of Dale, Dorolin, Tordag, Garberend Bellheather, Colfinn Belegorn, Garmo Butterbuckles, Calensarn Nimlos, Langtiriel, Bergteir


  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velkeirien View Post
    I plan to post the full translation on the wiki, once I've made some necessary adjustments to my Felak Karâth font. I'd rather not dump it here in case other people want the fun of translating it.

    That said, there is one part of the text I'm still not quite sure about, and maybe someone here can offer some insight.

    This is the first line of the sixth panel, going left to right around the room:


    My literal transcription of it is:
    "?? sins out stok hav sot"

    for which I believe a partial translation would be:
    "?? since ?? ?? have sought".

    The third word could be a typo for "our", which would give "?? since our stock have sought". "Stock", as in "descendants", could make sense in the context, but seems a really weird choice of words; "stock" is usually reserved for animals, at least in American English.

    The first word is hard to decipher. I think the flat glyphs may be, in order, "â", "y", and "e", but I can't make out the upright glyph at all. My best guess, using the given vowel sounds plus the context, is that it might be meant as "e'er" (contraction of "ever", pronounced like "air"); but the upright glyph does not really resemble the one for "r". Anyone have any alternate suggestions?
    Stock, in this case could be a double meaning for stock broth & stock ‘lot’ as in, “of our own doing” something we have created from ones own actions.

    Not sure if it would fit, but maybe “Evil sins our stock have sought” ?

  15. #15
    I start the wall 1 and it's are exactly like the poem of Lost Lore : Ered Mithrin

    https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Ite...A_Ered_Mithrin

    And the wall 2, 3 and 4 are the same.

    For the first word of the sixth panel, the last glyph look like a 'S' for me, but "ayes" does not make more sense


    EDIT :

    I started to translate the panel 5

    http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/...8608-mur-5.jpg

    As you can see, he still many mistakes, probably because of my lack of vocabulary in English.


    EDIT :

    and the panel 6

    http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/...5742-mur-6.jpg

    Indeed, the first word is not clear.

    I wait your ideas for corrections
    Last edited by Kufkhell; Nov 03 2018 at 02:30 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hallandil View Post
    Stock, in this case could be a double meaning for stock broth & stock ‘lot’ as in, “of our own doing” something we have created from ones own actions.

    Not sure if it would fit, but maybe “Evil sins our stock have sought” ?
    Not sure that makes any more sense than stock "descendants" or "lineage".
    And the Felak Karâth writing of "evil" would require two upright glyphs ('V' and 'L').
    Thanks for the suggestion, though.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kufkhell View Post
    I start the wall 1 and it's are exactly like the poem of Lost Lore : Ered Mithrin

    https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Ite...A_Ered_Mithrin

    And the wall 2, 3 and 4 are the same.
    Indeed, it's probably evident by now that the first four panels contain the eight stanzas of the poem from the linked quest. But there's apparently more to the poem than the quest gave us!

    For the first word of the sixth panel, the last glyph look like a 'S' for me, but "ayes" does not make more sense
    Exactly my thoughts. It does resemble the 'S' rune, or maybe 'TH', but neither seems to produce a word that fits there.

    I started to translate the panel 5

    http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/...8608-mur-5.jpg

    As you can see, he still many mistakes, probably because of my lack of vocabulary in English.

    and the panel 6

    http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/...5742-mur-6.jpg

    Indeed, the first word is not clear.

    I wait your ideas for corrections
    Your vocabulary seems pretty well sufficient for this. I think a number of the mistakes have more to do with misreading certain runes. For instance, in panel 5, third line, the word you transcribed as "wed", the upright glyph is pretty clearly bent in the middle rather than near the top, making it an 'L'. The phrase is then "well past number" (poetic form of "numberless").

    The preceding mistake in the same line might be lack of vocabulary, because you have the correct phonetic transcription. The word is "worm-kin", meaning all of the different kinds of worms, drakes, and dragons.

    On the fourth line, first word, remember that 'F' and 'V' use the same rune.

    On the same line, third word, the devs appear to have used the rune that corresponds to the Cirth 'Y' to represent 'J' (that is, the English 'J' sound, which is similar to the French; in many other languages J actually does represent the 'Y' sound).

    On panel 6:
    The vowel in the second word of the second line is long 'A', giving "trace".

    The final word of the fourth line uses the 'I' rune to represent the 'Y' sound, giving "yore" (poetic form of "time long past").

    For the missing letter in the middle word on the fifth line, I believe that is a 'K' rune, giving "scoured".

    The vowel in the final word of the sixth line is long 'U', (sometimes pronounced as "yew"), making the word "few". The same vowel occurs in the final word of the previous (fifth) line, making it "slew" not "slow".

  17. #17
    Although I am still far from the new areas, but this is incredible work! It requires both knowledge and time.

    This post (and other posts of similar nature) should be stickied for everyone to appreciate imo.

  18. #18
    Thank Velkeirien.

    so, on the panel 5 :

    -the fourth line is "avowing to avenge his slumber"

    -for the third word of the six line I find "delt" glyphs by glyphs but i dont know the meaning

    -the fourth word of the same line has a difficult glyph and could mean "outdoom", "outdown","outdone"

    -in the seventh line, the third and last word possesses a long "A". It sound like "their" and "waned" for me.

    On the panel 6 :

    - the third word of the third line has the famous glyph and could be "new" in the sentence : "we delves new dwelings locked for lore"

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kufkhell View Post
    Thank Velkeirien.

    so, on the panel 5 :

    -the fourth line is "avowing to avenge his slumber"

    -for the third word of the six line I find "delt" glyphs by glyphs but i dont know the meaning

    -the fourth word of the same line has a difficult glyph and could mean "outdoom", "outdown","outdone"

    -in the seventh line, the third and last word possesses a long "A". It sound like "their" and "waned" for me.

    On the panel 6 :

    - the third word of the third line has the famous glyph and could be "new" in the sentence : "we delves new dwelings locked for lore"
    The *Delt* glyph is likely referring to the word "Dealt" which is articulated as a an E sound. As in they "Dealt out doom"

    Rath could also refer to Wrath (similar pronounciation) and "Wand" meaning Waned (grow smaller).




    Could it be that with the absence of a J glyph could the v-shaped glypth be a stand-in for the 'J/G' sound used in AvenGe? If so, that could make the first rune "Ages" but using AE at the start to create the right glyph sound.
    Last edited by Hallandil; Nov 04 2018 at 10:24 AM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kufkhell View Post
    Thank Velkeirien.

    so, on the panel 5 :

    -the fourth line is "avowing to avenge his slumber"
    Yes, that's how I translated it.

    -for the third word of the six line I find "delt" glyphs by glyphs but i dont know the meaning

    -the fourth word of the same line has a difficult glyph and could mean "outdoom", "outdown","outdone"
    As Hallandil said, I believe it is "dealt out doom". Looks like the devs forgot the word separator again, between "out" and "doom".

    -in the seventh line, the third and last word possesses a long "A". It sound like "their" and "waned" for me.
    Yes.

    On the panel 6 :

    - the third word of the third line has the famous glyph and could be "new" in the sentence : "we delves new dwelings locked for lore"
    "new dwellings" is what I read. For the second word on that line, take a closer look at the final glyph; I don't think it's an 'S'. And in the fifth word, I think the 'O' is being used in an unusual way, representing the 'OO' in "book".

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallandil View Post
    Could it be that with the absence of a J glyph could the v-shaped glypth be a stand-in for the 'J/G' sound used in AvenGe? If so, that could make the first rune "Ages" but using AE at the start to create the right glyph sound.
    Hmm, don't know why I didn't think of that, but your idea does make sense! That would give the line "[For] Ages since our stock have sought".

    On a separate note, there is actually a nominal 'J' glyph - the glyph for 'CH' also maps to 'J' (because their English pronunciations are phonetically closely related). I have no idea why the devs didn't use that glyph.

  21. #21
    Hi,

    I read again the wall 5 phonetically and :

    - the 6th word of the third line could be "passed" instead of "past"

    - the third word and the 6th of the fifth line are "claws" and "breath" in the sentence : "With cluching claws and baleful breath" (breath rhyme with death of the 6th line)

    - the third word of the 6th line sound like "dealed" in the sens of "strike/beat" : "The dragons dealed out doom ans death"

    And the third word of the third line is alway incomprehensible for me, I read "wôb" but the signification…

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kufkhell View Post
    Hi,

    I read again the wall 5 phonetically and :

    - the 6th word of the third line could be "passed" instead of "past"
    Pretty sure it is "past" - "well past number" is a perfectly reasonable English phrase, while "well passed number" is not. And "past" perfectly matches the given glyphs.

    - the third word and the 6th of the fifth line are "claws" and "breath" in the sentence : "With cluching claws and baleful breath" (breath rhyme with death of the 6th line)
    Yes, although the second word is spelled "clutching".

    - the third word of the 6th line sound like "dealed" in the sens of "strike/beat" : "The dragons dealed out doom ans death"
    I'm not familiar with that definition of "dealed". As far as I know "dealed" is a non-standard past tense for the verb "deal".
    The standard past tense of "deal" is "dealt", pronounced "delt", which perfectly matches the given glyphs.

    And the third word of the third line is alway incomprehensible for me, I read "wôb" but the signification…
    You mean the second word? The upright glyph is hard to read, but I believe it is a 'K'.

  23. #23
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    @Velkeirien, can you send me, please, translation in PM if possible?
    Ich bin kein Deutscher, sorry für Grammatik.
    English isn't my native language, sorry for mistakes.

  24. #24
    Yes Velkeirien it's the second word and it means "woke" in "He woke the worm-kin well past number"

    The final translation is very close and I have a first suggestion :

    SPOILER

    1
    The harps sing loud, the fires burn low
    Our thoughts now stray to long ago
    When in the north and far away
    The anvils rang ‘neath Mountains Grey

    In olden days, when all was sundered
    Our sires left strongholds wrecked and plundered
    And hewed new homes far under stone
    To carve a kingdom of their own

    2
    With iron fists and hammers strong
    They ruled a realm of storied song
    The glitt'ring mines and glimm'ring hall
    Of peerless, proud Thafar-gathol

    O reaches rich with gem and ore!
    Resplendent runes writ on the door!
    O kingly crown of ruby wrought!
    The forge-fires burning ever-hot!

    3
    Beryl, bloodstone, sapphire, sard,
    Darkest onyx, diamond hard
    Gold and garnet filled their hoards
    And shone upon their shimm'ring swords

    Yet tales they tell of greater treasure
    Matchless wealth past mind and measure
    Mighty mithril, blazing bright
    That drenched the darkened depths with light

    4
    The harps grow still, the embers dim
    Our ballads glad grow black and grim
    For in the north and far away
    Our days drew short ‘neath Mountains Grey

    Now heed and hearken as I speak
    Of times that turned from blithe to bleak
    Fast and fearful came the fall
    Of fair, forlorn Thafar-gathol

    5
    For in the dimness of the deep
    And shadows shape did stir from sleep
    He woke the worm-kin well past number
    Avowing to avenge his slumber

    With clutching claws and baleful breath
    The dragons dealt out doom and death
    And when their wanton wrath had waned
    No relic of those halls remained

    6
    ???? since out stock have sought
    For trace or track unearthing nought
    We delves new dwellings looked for lore
    Yet fails to find those halls of yore

    We searched and scoured and serpents slew
    But now our folk are tired and few
    And still it bids beyoned recall
    Lonely lost Thafar-Gâthol

    7
    The harps are gone, the fires are out,
    The shadows gather all about,
    Yet from the north and far away
    Still sounds the song of Mountains Grey.

    King or common, fool or clever,
    It lures us always, tempting ever.
    Brothers, can you hear the call
    Of long-lamented Thafar-gathol !
    Last edited by Kufkhell; Nov 13 2018 at 07:13 PM.

  25. #25
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    @Kufkhell That's very close to what I have.

    You seem to have copied the Lost Lore text for the first four panels, and I'd like to point out that there are actually a few word differences: I'm guessing that they wrote the full poem, then made the images for the wall panels, then copied a portion of the text for the Lost Lore and made some changes to it, without changing the wall panels.
    • Panel 1, last line, sixth word: The Lost Lore says "their", but the panel reads "our".
    • Panel 2, last line, fourth word: The Lost Lore says "flaming", but the panel reads "burning".


    On panel 5, line 2, I read the first few words as "A shadowed shape".

    On panel 5, line 7, I believe the fourth word is a phonetic spelling of "wanton", which can mean "capricious" or "unrestrained" ("wanten" is not a word in English).

    On panel 5, last line, and again on panel 6, line 4, I think the word that looks like "holes" is actually meant to be "halls" (compare with the final word of panel 2, line 3).

    On panel 6, line 1, where did you get "for" as the first word?

    On panel 6, line 2, I think the final word is meant to be read as "nought" ("nothing"), with the same vowel as "sought".

    There are a few other places on panel 6 where it appears you may have misread a glyph.



    Overall, impressive work! I would definitely have a much harder time translating something written in phonetic French.
    Last edited by Velkeirien; Nov 10 2018 at 01:03 AM.

 

 
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