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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starkorm View Post
    You don't really "need" all of that to complete anything atm, it just makes the job easier for healers, but good ones are doing fine as is. You can get the finesse, mits, incoming healing, and crit def fairly easily though. Capping avoidances is probably a thing of the past for tank builds now.



    Force taunts and how they work now are truly one of the worst mechanics this game has ever implemented.
    This stats are same needed as finesse, crit and mastery for dpser.
    Just that they need more in total

  2. #102
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    Really? Finesse is required even on Guards? I thought it was just a warden thing.
    Rialtan - Rk - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog
    Stragnokka - Champ - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Rialtan View Post
    Really? Finesse is required even on Guards? I thought it was just a warden thing.
    its required for neither guard nor warden in tanking line. Its just annoying to have bpe/resists. Tanking still works with those.
    some people tanked with 20k finesse at lvl105, some did it without any. Its the same now. I'm not saying the threat mechanics are good as they are. But they work and require no finesse.
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  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    its required for neither guard nor warden in tanking line. Its just annoying to have bpe/resists. Tanking still works with those.
    some people tanked with 20k finesse at lvl105, some did it without any. Its the same now. I'm not saying the threat mechanics are good as they are. But they work and require no finesse.
    Imho, this is too general.
    I can only speak from a Warden perspective. Having many resists is far away from only beeing annoying, because of 2 main reasons.

    1. Aggro-Management - in situations where new adds are spawning while our only taunt is on cd - becomes less reliable the less finesse you slot.
    2. DPS. One may like it or not, but the main reason to choose a Warden Tank over other Tanks is their superior damage contribution, in exchange for their inferior survivability.

    Thats why I can not agree that finesse is not required.

    Cheers,
    Vala
    Valanduin [Champ] & Valanduir [Warden] & Valanur [RK]
    Gwaihir [EU-DE] | Die Reiter von Rohan

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anduil View Post
    Imho, this is too general.
    I can only speak from a Warden perspective. Having many resists is far away from only beeing annoying, because of 2 main reasons.

    1. Aggro-Management - in situations where new adds are spawning while our only taunt is on cd - becomes less reliable the less finesse you slot.
    2. DPS. One may like it or not, but the main reason to choose a Warden Tank over other Tanks is their superior damage contribution, in exchange for their inferior survivability.

    Thats why I can not agree that finesse is not required.

    Cheers,
    Vala
    Both points are the same for guards. Well dps not to be choosen over wardens, but dps and with the skills build up defence.
    Is for all tanks the same, they can't do anything else as pressing each X seconds taunts, without finesse and this can't be the aimed way of playing.
    I miss the old days in which taunts were just er skills to get aggro quick back after resets, death etc. And tanking was a real race. This was fun.
    Not the current state do what you want and press at 90% target morale your taunt.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    its required for neither guard nor warden in tanking line. Its just annoying to have bpe/resists. Tanking still works with those.
    some people tanked with 20k finesse at lvl105, some did it without any. Its the same now. I'm not saying the threat mechanics are good as they are. But they work and require no finesse.
    Well i tanked some t2c on my warden....i dont suggest to tank boss with adds waves (50% of the total probs) without any finesse xD
    Rialtan - Rk - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog
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  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Anduil View Post
    Imho, this is too general.
    I can only speak from a Warden perspective. Having many resists is far away from only beeing annoying, because of 2 main reasons.

    1. Aggro-Management - in situations where new adds are spawning while our only taunt is on cd - becomes less reliable the less finesse you slot.
    2. DPS. One may like it or not, but the main reason to choose a Warden Tank over other Tanks is their superior damage contribution, in exchange for their inferior survivability.

    Thats why I can not agree that finesse is not required.

    Cheers,
    Vala
    @1: if adds spawn, usually the group survives if one or two resist and hit a groupmember once or twice and even with 20% resist chance, most adds dont resist and you gather most. And if its really needed, you should time your taunt to have it ready when its needed. Or where are fights where adds spawn much more often than each 20s?

    @2: granted, but for dps higher mastery usually yields more dps which makes it not worth it to go higher than maybe 10%. you dont really want to use skills that need to bypass BPE frontal otherwise you'd need much more finesse. its just not viable to get >30%. thats why guards have that trait to reduce BPE. to be able to hit enemies frontal reliably.

    Tanks premier role: surviving damage that others wont survive -> needs defensive stats
    Tanks second role: making every enemy attack you, or at least make every enemy that could kill someone attack you -> in most cases doesnt need finesse
    Tanks third role: Support the group with more dps, interrupts, debuffs etc -> only reliable with "capped" finesse (= no avoid happens ever), which isnt really viable when attacking frontal.

    -> finesse is nice to have, but you can fulfill your role without, such its not required.
    If its viable to slot lots of offensive essences as a tank, then enemies just dont hit hard enough.

    and too many too strong adds... to me that says: use CC
    Last edited by Oelle; Sep 27 2017 at 07:21 AM.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    @1: if adds spawn, usually the group survives if one or two resist and hit a groupmember once or twice and even with 20% resist chance, most adds dont resist and you gather most. And if its really needed, you should time your taunt to have it ready when its needed. Or where are fights where adds spawn much more often than each 20s?

    @2: granted, but for dps higher mastery usually yields more dps which makes it not worth it to go higher than maybe 10%. you dont really want to use skills that need to bypass BPE frontal otherwise you'd need much more finesse. its just not viable to get >30%. thats why guards have that trait to reduce BPE. to be able to hit enemies frontal reliably.

    Tanks premier role: surviving damage that others wont survive -> needs defensive stats
    Tanks second role: making every enemy attack you, or at least make every enemy that could kill someone attack you -> in most cases doesnt need finesse
    Tanks third role: Support the group with more dps, interrupts, debuffs etc -> only reliable with "capped" finesse (= no avoid happens ever), which isnt really viable when attacking frontal.

    -> finesse is nice to have, but you can fulfill your role without
    Problem is you need BoV or Surety to build your aggro. Warden got only 1 forced taunt with 30secs CD.

    To make a decent tank build you need at least some finesse....noway. If you miss surety or forced taunt, your heals and dps are screwed for 30 seconds.
    Tbh i gave up with warden for now. In my opinion isnt balanced...slots are too few to reach a decent morale pool and cap defensive stats/inc heals.
    Rialtan - Rk - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog
    Stragnokka - Champ - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Rialtan View Post
    Warden got only 1 forced taunt with 30secs CD.
    mine has 20s CD and forcetaunt never misses (as long as you are in range).

    I agree on defensive equipment being too offensive, equipment generally being too balanced.
    Generally, it feels like one can chose between tanky or offensive equipment and on a scale of 0-10 where 0 means full tankyness zero offense and 10 means zero defense full offense, the defensive equipment puts you at 4 and the offensive puts you at 6. I'd prefer if it was 2 and 8 and if you wanted to be at 4 or 6, you'd mix some parts.
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Anführer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    mine has 20s CD and forcetaunt never misses (as long as you are in range).
    Yeah sorry, my bad. it doesnt changes my thought.

    Problem is that warden forced taunt is #### if you dont stack on mobs some DoTs (BoV, surety) first.

    With the actual gear, warden is a cheap dps and a not competitive tank in end game (bs, ss, halrond, osgi cluster) compared to cappy which can cap pretty much every defensive skill and reach 140 150k morale.
    Last edited by Rialtan; Sep 27 2017 at 07:30 AM.
    Rialtan - Rk - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog
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  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Rialtan View Post
    Yeah sorry, my bad. it doesnt changes my thought.

    Problem is that warden forced taunt is #### if you dont stack on mobs some DoTs (BoV, surety) first.
    It works exactly like all classes taunt in tank spec. Copy + multiplier/lead. So case can be made, if warden has aggro problems, especially on trash tanking is that player cant tank. Warden has superior aggro potential for trash compared to other classes. They actually could keep aggro way longer without taunting thus having larger lead upon the taunt compared to other tank classes combined with short taunt CD.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    It works exactly like all classes taunt in tank spec. Copy + multiplier/lead. So case can be made, if warden has aggro problems, especially on trash tanking is that player cant tank. Warden has superior aggro potential for trash compared to other classes. They actually could keep aggro way longer without taunting thus having larger lead upon the taunt compared to other tank classes combined with short taunt CD.
    All your posts are the same. If blablabla you are #### blablabla.


    Post me a video of any end game instance tanked by a warden. (pelennor/osgilliath)
    Rialtan - Rk - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog
    Stragnokka - Champ - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    @1: if adds spawn, usually the group survives if one or two resist and hit a groupmember once or twice and even with 20% resist chance, most adds dont resist and you gather most. And if its really needed, you should time your taunt to have it ready when its needed. Or where are fights where adds spawn much more often than each 20s?

    @2: granted, but for dps higher mastery usually yields more dps which makes it not worth it to go higher than maybe 10%. you dont really want to use skills that need to bypass BPE frontal otherwise you'd need much more finesse. its just not viable to get >30%. thats why guards have that trait to reduce BPE. to be able to hit enemies frontal reliably.

    Tanks premier role: surviving damage that others wont survive -> needs defensive stats
    Tanks second role: making every enemy attack you, or at least make every enemy that could kill someone attack you -> in most cases doesnt need finesse
    Tanks third role: Support the group with more dps, interrupts, debuffs etc -> only reliable with "capped" finesse (= no avoid happens ever), which isnt really viable when attacking frontal.

    -> finesse is nice to have, but you can fulfill your role without, such its not required.
    If its viable to slot lots of offensive essences as a tank, then enemies just dont hit hard enough.

    and too many too strong adds... to me that says: use CC
    And for reducing the beginning shields mash and bash have to hit, no full avoidance, for this you need finesse. And even if they hit, you only got a chance to reduce their bpe.
    Same for survival shield tactics have to hit to buff you, need of finesse, same for War hat and debuffing.
    Same for all skills to save the threat until 90% and the taunt.
    Tanks need finesse and they get 0.
    So they must stack it in addition to the higher total of the defensive stats compared to offensive. 3*70(bpe)+42(critdef)+2*78(mit s)+20(vita) to name the important compared. To 71 (crit)+ 80(finesse) for the dpser. In addition tanks needs a good level of finesse too to do their job good, just taunting isn't good it's bad.
    Other way they can do, is to give all tanklines the passive ability to being unavoidalbe/unresistable, then tabs can live without finesse

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    ....Tanks need finesse and they get 0.
    So they must stack it in addition to the higher total of the defensive stats compared to offensive. 3*70(bpe)+42(critdef)+2*78(mit s)+20(vita) to name the important compared. To 71 (crit)+ 80(finesse) for the dpser. In addition tanks needs a good level of finesse too to do their job good, just taunting isn't good it's bad.
    Other way they can do, is to give all tanklines the passive ability to being unavoidalbe/unresistable, then tabs can live without finesse
    I don't understand why you say "they get 0". There's might gear with finesse on it. The might gold rings have a bunch of finesse for example.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKenny View Post
    I don't understand why you say "they get 0". There's might gear with finesse on it. The might gold rings have a bunch of finesse for example.
    Explain me how can you reach decent morale/crit def/mits/inc heals if you need to slot at least 3 4 finesse essences...
    Rialtan - Rk - Ascensio Kin - Legit Challenger of Gothmog
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  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rialtan View Post
    Explain me how can you reach decent morale/crit def/mits/inc heals if you need to slot at least 3 4 finesse essences...
    The claim I quoted was "they get 0", yet there is finesse built into the stats on a number of might pieces. I wasn't referring to finesse essences.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by DKenny View Post
    The claim I quoted was "they get 0", yet there is finesse built into the stats on a number of might pieces. I wasn't referring to finesse essences.
    tanks get finesse, if they use DD equipment. And thats the point.
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  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    -> finesse is nice to have, but you can fulfill your role without, such its not required.
    There are many little details that are not required to fulfill a role, nevertheless they can make your total group contribution better.
    In the end, as always, it´s question of playstyle and personal opinion. You got your opinion, I got mine. But I like mine better

    Cheers,
    Vala
    Valanduin [Champ] & Valanduir [Warden] & Valanur [RK]
    Gwaihir [EU-DE] | Die Reiter von Rohan

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tybur View Post
    [*]Gorgoroth Resource Instances: The following deeds are now available: Resources of Gorgoroth, Gathering of Resources, Gathering of Resources (Intermediate), Gathering of Resources (Advanced).
    Can anyone confirm the amounts for these deeds? I assume it is 90 to complete the (Advanced) deed.

    Also, does anyone know if we will get credit for all the Resources instances that we have already completed? A friend said that at least on Bullroarer the deeds completed when he transferred his character. Has anyone else experienced this?

    Thanks,
    Radian

    P.S. My apologies if this has already been addressed in this thread and I missed it.
    Radian- Champion- Landroval

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino-Man View Post
    Can anyone confirm the amounts for these deeds? I assume it is 90 to complete the (Advanced) deed.

    Also, does anyone know if we will get credit for all the Resources instances that we have already completed? A friend said that at least on Bullroarer the deeds completed when he transferred his character. Has anyone else experienced this?

    Thanks,
    Radian

    P.S. My apologies if this has already been addressed in this thread and I missed it.
    Same amount as for various quests in regions. So 90 for the last one.
    Yes, you get credit.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalphor View Post
    Same amount as for various quests in regions. So 90 for the last one.
    Yes, you get credit.
    Thanks! I'll have to wait and see if I've done 90 once the update goes live.
    Radian- Champion- Landroval

  22. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino-Man View Post
    Thanks! I'll have to wait and see if I've done 90 once the update goes live.
    When is it going live? Any news yet?

  23. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Danny2671 View Post
    When is it going live? Any news yet?
    In the "Cord of the Rings" live stream that happened yesterday Cordovan mentioned it was targeted for "mid October". If they keep to their traditional update schedule, that would be a patch day of Monday October 16th or Tuesday October 17th, as Mondays and Tuesdays seems to be the days they mostly release big patches.
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  24. #124

    the moors

    more mess to come

  25. #125
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    Exclamation Update Featured Instance Loot On LvL 106 And Upwards

    Not sure anyone else has mentioned this among all the posts in this thread.

    How about updating the loot for Daily Featured instances when running them on LvL 106+ ???

    They still drop same loot they did when 105 was level cap. Same (now useless) Essences and crafting/war materials.

    Unless trash mobs in the featured instance drop loot (in some instances they don't even do that) or You really need Anfalas Scrolls there is not much point in doing the daily Featured Instances anymore. A shame as they really brought back life into some old content and at least gave some variation to the daily grinds.
    Last edited by Lord.Funk; Oct 04 2017 at 08:59 AM. Reason: Typos and such.
    "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." /Edward Snowden
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