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  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    No it is not useless at all anymore.
    With finesse scaling that high , you can manage to save your physical dpsers around ~25k finesse , which is ultra important.
    As long as you can maintain it ofc.


    Yeah , i was surprised to see that one scale so well.
    Unfortunately , if you don't have take to heart , it gets cut to almost half and it doesn't stack twice like warchant does...
    I guess its alright , although i don't see how a blue guardian can reach it and use it. Plus , it requires a crit with parry response afaik ? ( redirect included )
    I have like 5% crit on my tank build X D
    Are you sure disorientation is 100% chance to redcut bpe by 5%?In the german client max is 25% chance,maybe translation is just bugged.....

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasius View Post
    Are you sure disorientation is 100% chance to redcut bpe by 5%?In the german client max is 25% chance,maybe translation is just bugged.....
    It's 25% and can proc with all shield skills , even shield taunt.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    No it is not useless at all anymore.
    With finesse scaling that high , you can manage to save your physical dpsers around ~25k finesse , which is ultra important.
    As long as you can maintain it ofc.



    Yeah , i was surprised to see that one scale so well.
    Unfortunately , if you don't have take to heart , it gets cut to almost half and it doesn't stack twice like warchant does...
    I guess its alright , although i don't see how a blue guardian can reach it and use it. Plus , it requires a crit with parry response afaik ? ( redirect included )
    I have like 5% crit on my tank build X D
    Your crit seems fairly low. I think I'm around 23% with shield spikes. *Shrug* different builds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasius View Post
    Are you sure disorientation is 100% chance to redcut bpe by 5%?In the german client max is 25% chance,maybe translation is just bugged.....
    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    It's 25% and can proc with all shield skills , even shield taunt.
    Arkenstone| Officer of Faded | Altria
    Arkenstone | Leader of Dark Impulse | Telcely
    Original Challenger of Gothmog


  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starkorm View Post
    Your crit seems fairly low. I think I'm around 23% with shield spikes. *Shrug* different builds.
    But shield spikes is what ? 12% on their own ?

    The discussion was about singular focus which shouldn't benefit from shield spikes.
    I believe that when it comes to tanking , it procs with retaliation/whirling and redirect , so shield skills don't help much there QQ

    If only they hadn't nerf thrill of battle from red to the ground , there would be so many new possibilities for a tank build ; ((((

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    But shield spikes is what ? 12% on their own ?

    The discussion was about singular focus which shouldn't benefit from shield spikes.
    I believe that when it comes to tanking , it procs with retaliation/whirling and redirect , so shield skills don't help much there QQ

    If only they hadn't nerf thrill of battle from red to the ground , there would be so many new possibilities for a tank build ; ((((
    Yeah 12% with the trait maxed, no idea why I mentioned shield spikes there, it is only from Parry Response skills.
    Arkenstone| Officer of Faded | Altria
    Arkenstone | Leader of Dark Impulse | Telcely
    Original Challenger of Gothmog


  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by danee593 View Post
    To be fair our bpe was out of control, 70% mits plus full partials we were taking almost no damage.
    Yeah, I agree. They could have addressed the scaling of the damage mitigation without making it impossible to reach 100% partial.

    Fortification is better and we get 5% damage reduction with war chant.
    10% Foritification + 5% War-Chant still comes up short. How quickly can you get the fortification stacks with no block rating, relying on 25% chance on shield skills?

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zvim666 View Post
    Yeah, I agree. They could have addressed the scaling of the damage mitigation without making it impossible to reach 100% partial.



    10% Foritification + 5% War-Chant still comes up short. How quickly can you get the fortification stacks with no block rating, relying on 25% chance on shield skills?
    In trash before mobs recover from initial stun.

  8. #33
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    It would be interesting if anyone has an idea for an extensive comparative BPE-calculation.
    The basics are simple. However to judge if BPE is superior to just vit/morale I ended up with more questions than answers.

    There are some factors which have a big influence:
    - melee attacks can be B/P/E'ed if positioned correctly
    - ranged attacks can only be B/E'ed (?)
    - tactical attacks can only be resisted
    - there ar numerous examples of unavoidable attacks in raids / instances which bypass B/P/E
    - amount of damage taken per time versus healing capability
    - amount of self heals in relation to the damage taken
    - B/P/E rating automatically received as a side effects of might (block=3×might; parry=2×might)
    - limited number of essence slots

    I've done a rough calculation with multiplicative reduction of full and partial B/P/E at level 115.
    Assumed different amounts of overall damage taken. For easier comparison I've mainly calculated with 100.000 damage which shoud meet the magnitude of a guardian's overall health. I calculated the theoretical minimum amounts of essences (B/P/E <-> vitality) needed for the balance damage reduction versus vitality pool:

    - no big difference t1/t2 due to b/p/e penetration (only -4600 versus 64.000 rating fur capping full B/P/E)
    - there seems to be an optimum in the range ~23k B/P/E rating - of course only for attacks which can be avoided
    - with increasing damage the optimum shifts towards the full B/P/E t2 cap (68.400)
    - increasing Evasion (usually the sore spot of guardians) reduces incoming damage more than increasing already high block or parry ratings

    My main conclusion is: it depends.
    While stacking vitality/morale is superior in all fights with unavoidable hits, especially single large damage hits, reasonable B/P/E-ratings reduce damage significantly when large crowds of opponents do damage to the tank. In long fights with lower healing capabilities AND avoidable attack, B/P/E redcues the total amount of damage per time and makes it easier for healers to fill the morale pool. It is better to improve the rather low rating of 'Evasion' compared to increasing an already high B/P rating. Fair amounts of B/P are also important for reactive skills.

    Has anyone more detailed calculations / material?

    Kind regards

    Rhunar

  9. #34
    You dont really need the reactive events of B/P as you have skills to create those and you get enough B/P events anyway. Such, I see no reason at all not to go for Evade if I were to slot avoidance. If I'll do it will depend on design decisions for the new instances/raid. sure, it depends. but if there are many avoidable attacks, I'll get some evade essences. Dont know how much exactly, but some for sure. Without knowing, which of the following damagetypes we face, its hard to decide for a build: avoidable, unavoidable, percentual, highpurenumbers, shared, direct or dot.
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Anführer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
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  10. #35
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    At least each normal attack ist avaoidable and for this blocking should be high enough to get the events for the selfheals.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    At least each normal attack ist avaoidable and for this blocking should be high enough to get the events for the selfheals.
    if average mobs damage is low enough to get relevant amounts of selfheal by blockheals, then mobs damage is too low. Shouldn't be the case for any T2 or Raid.
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Anführer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
    Deutsche Guides für nahezu alles, was Casuals interessieren könnte, gibts hier: http://gdfv.forumo.de/guides-f24/

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhunar View Post
    Kind regards

    Rhunar
    As others said this will clearly depend on the instance nature. Hopefully we'll find out more tomorrow night.

    Currently your best bet is :

    50% crit defense , t2 capped mits , softcapped inc healing , 68k+ on all 3 avoidances , ~20k vitality and ~15% finesse. Avoidances and mits include ward ofc.
    It's a balanced build that takes maximum advantage of dimishing returns and stat investment value.

    Avoidances and maybe some finesse might end up being sacrificed in favour of more morale stacking and capped inc healing.
    I personally highly doubt it.
    100% avoidances is barely a thing anymore for guards so there is a high chance unavoidable attacks will slightly reduce.
    When they tweaked the ratings , they certainly had plans !

    We'll see : )
    Last edited by BotLike; Sep 13 2017 at 03:38 PM.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    if average mobs damage is low enough to get relevant amounts of selfheal by blockheals, then mobs damage is too low. Shouldn't be the case for any T2 or Raid.
    Not enough but each blockheal helps the healer and build up threat. So we should aim to it.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zvim666 View Post
    10% Foritification + 5% War-Chant still comes up short. How quickly can you get the fortification stacks with no block rating, relying on 25% chance on shield skills?
    What Siip said go red before pulling and watch them fall like drunk sailors and bum! 70% mits plus decent amount of threat.

    If sprint on cooldown champ will use horn.

  15. #40
    Any feedback from BR about the damage in the new instances and how it might affect gearing? High spike/unavoidable damage and therefore High Vit/Crit D build, or better to max Avoidances and Mits?
    Eadreid Champion 105 || Eadrun Loremaster 105 || Gillorin Guardian 105

  16. #41
    I'd like to get some insights aswell. Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eadreid View Post
    Any feedback from BR about the damage in the new instances and how it might affect gearing? High spike/unavoidable damage and therefore High Vit/Crit D build, or better to max Avoidances and Mits?
    Original Challenger of the Abyss

  17. #42
    *bump*

    (holy cow this forum used to be sooo active, ### happened?)
    Original Challenger of the Abyss

 

 
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