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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    I've logged in to play in CA,TX,GA,DC,IL,MN,ID,OR,NV
    Posts
    5,179

    Incoming healing essence on a minstrel

    I heard that incoming healing was bugged such that it acted like outgoing healing. I decided to test this. My results suggested that since p is low, null must go, or that we must accept the alternate hypothesis that incoming healing essence has no effect on outgoing healing.

    Methodology
    I took a stopwatch and spammed bolster courage on a volunteer for 3 minutes, clicking the bolster button roughly once a second. With 2.3 seconds on a bolster courage, this should have theoretically yielded around 60 heals. There's some skill lag after you're done casting each heal, and I got in a couple extra heals because it didn't just stop healing when I hit the timer, it finished that skill and then did the one that I'd queued up. I didn't count the heals, but it's well over 30 and should be enough to let us get a good statistical comparison. Then I loaded in a Dark Essence of Restoration (incoming healing), did the same, then loaded an Empowered Dark Essence of Restoration (incoming healing), did the same, then I parsed the numbers. Incoming healing, or Restoration, is not available from a Shadowed essence box.

    Parsing
    CombatAnalysis did jack diddely -- it parsed damage just fine but seemed to ignore all heals outside of "combat". So I logged my combat logs, loaded them up in Notepad, then did a find/replace (Ctrl+H) for "Tevye healed <volunteer>..." and all the like, leaving only numbers (with blank lines in between) then copy/pasted the entire log into single Excel columns. I then used the average/standard deviation formulas, and then the quartile formulas to build box/whisker plots.

    Code:
    Average ± Standard Deviation
    9,458 ± 3,592.04
    8,578 ± 3,405.983
    9.528 ± 3,896.73
    
    Quartiles:
    5657	6972.5	7603.5	13161	16620
    5688	6294.75	6971.5	9013.5	16467
    5609	6446.5	7480	13083	16597


    However, that 2nd test is quite a bit lower, and the average should be closer to the other two, so it's possible that I made a mistake somewhere. Or maybe my test subject (a guardian) did something different. Unfortunately, it's freakishly difficult to test essence because Standing Stone, well, I'm just going to stop there. Maybe I'll use a combat dummy next time and test for 20-30 minutes or something, but that'll have to wait for a day when I have more time.

    Raw data:
    ### Chat Log: Combat 08/24 11:44 PM ###
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 13,392 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,331 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 5,961 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 13,160 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,335 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,867 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,590 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 14,446 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,948 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 13,173 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 14,785 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,338 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 16,412 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,330 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 5,673 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 14,316 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 13,103 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,710 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,859 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 13,394 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,617 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 5,657 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,478 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 16,403 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 12,716 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 13,164 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,979 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,234 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 5,712 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 15,201 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,773 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 5,783 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 16,620 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,388 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,552 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,696 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,292 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,899 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 12,775 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,163 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,953 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,227 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,349 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,410 points to Morale.

    ### Chat Log: Combat 08/24 11:48 PM ###
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,738 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,630 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,220 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,312 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,114 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,470 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 12,183 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,298 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,484 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,235 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 5,688 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,461 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,757 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 15,464 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,957 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,166 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 13,496 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 13,266 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 12,647 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 12,932 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,285 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,226 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 5,741 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 15,186 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,527 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,736 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 5,751 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 16,467 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,736 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,660 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,919 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 16,185 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 14,306 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,024 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,542 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,481 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,238 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,130 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 14,160 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,602 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,144 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,348 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,560 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 5,953 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.

    ### Chat Log: Combat 08/24 11:52 PM ###
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 12,093 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,138 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,765 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 15,962 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,922 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 16,139 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 5,795 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 13,383 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 15,915 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,397 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,656 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 14,598 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,939 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,413 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,931 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,222 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,925 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,402 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,541 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 5,911 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 15,363 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 5,896 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,537 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 12,887 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 5,944 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 12,415 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 11,929 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,522 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 5,799 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 7,480 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 5,891 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 5,722 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,899 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 16,569 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 5,609 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,399 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,961 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 6,480 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 16,597 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 15,596 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 13,889 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 12,010 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Tevye applied a critical heal with Bolster Courage to Thomaston restoring 13,279 points to Morale.
    Tevye applied a critical benefit with Bolster Courage on Thomaston.
    Last edited by Banaticus; Aug 25 2017 at 04:03 AM.
    2017: 6 levels and an instance! As a level 1 burglar, Bilbo got a pony when he joined the Smaug The Dragon raid. Then he asked for leadership, looted the chest, assigned himself the 1st age Arkenstone and mailed it to an alt (Bilbo's a VIP so can mail from anywhere). They did some PvMP and an Epic Battle, then he apologized and gave the Arkenstone back because it wasn't BoA. He kept the pony.

  2. #2
    but it's well over 30 and should be enough to let us get a good statistical comparison
    Unfortunately, no it isn't.

    The standard deviation of the average (which is what you need to determine whether the averages are different) is the standard deviation of the samples (which you quoted) divided by the square root of the number of casts per sample.

    Because the variation from heal to heal (the standard deviation of the samples) is large, you need a lot more than 30-60 casts to see the effect of one essence. Based on what you say (30 - 60 casts per sample), the standard deviation of your averages should be roughly 500. The standard deviation of the difference between the averages of two samples would then be roughly 700 - which is comparable to the observed differences.

    The effect of a single essence would only be about 5%. 5% of 9500 is about 500 - smaller than your statistical uncertainty of roughly 700. So unfortunately these data can tell us nothing...

    It may be easier to look at the minimum and maximum values and compare them with the tooltips. Of course you are unlikely to see the exact minimum and maximum values, but you should always fall within them (excluding crits) and approach them as the number of heals gets larger and larger. Obviously you need to make sure the target being healed has no incoming healing bonuses (including Race of Man, legendary class items, etc)...

    I have checked the tooltips, and the tooltips appear to agree with the expected values if Tactical Mastery and Outgoing Healing work as described in the wiki. So the question is whether the actual heals agree with what the tooltips say. From some tests I did on my LM, the values in the combat log fell within the range of the tooltips, and approached the endpoints as expected.
    Dagoreth (Warden) and Belechannas (Lore-master) of Arkenstone

    < No Dorfs >
    Fighting the Dorf menace to Middle Earth since 2008

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    I've logged in to play in CA,TX,GA,DC,IL,MN,ID,OR,NV
    Posts
    5,179
    Quote Originally Posted by LagunaD2 View Post
    you need to make sure the target being healed has no incoming healing bonuses (including Race of Man, legendary class items, etc)...
    No, it would affect all heals equally, exacerbating the differences, so instead of looking at 50 and 60 (difference of 10), we might be looking at 55 and 65 (difference of 11). Incoming healing on the target should make it easier to spot a difference, although we would then have to calculate how much of the effect was due to incoming healing.

    Next time I'll just use a target dummy and collect a larger sample.
    2017: 6 levels and an instance! As a level 1 burglar, Bilbo got a pony when he joined the Smaug The Dragon raid. Then he asked for leadership, looted the chest, assigned himself the 1st age Arkenstone and mailed it to an alt (Bilbo's a VIP so can mail from anywhere). They did some PvMP and an Epic Battle, then he apologized and gave the Arkenstone back because it wasn't BoA. He kept the pony.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Banaticus View Post
    No, it would affect all heals equally, exacerbating the differences, so instead of looking at 50 and 60 (difference of 10), we might be looking at 55 and 65 (difference of 11).
    I think you misunderstood. I suggested comparing the healed amounts to the tooltip values, which are correct:

    It may be easier to look at the minimum and maximum values and compare them with the tooltips. Of course you are unlikely to see the exact minimum and maximum values, but you should always fall within them (excluding crits) and approach them as the number of heals gets larger and larger. Obviously you need to make sure the target being healed has no incoming healing bonuses
    If the target has +Incoming healing, the values in the combat log will not agree with the tooltips even if everything is working as it should.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banaticus View Post
    Next time I'll just use a target dummy and collect a larger sample.
    Pack a lunch...

    You want to see a difference of about 500, which means, for a conclusive test, the statistical uncertainty on your measured difference should not be much more than 100. That means the standard deviations of your measured averages should be no more than 100/sqrt(2) = 70. With each population having a standard deviation of ~3600, you would need about 2600 non-crit heals in each sample to achieve that level of precision on the averages.

    Of course, you could make life easier to magnifying the difference and using multiple essences instead of one. If you were looking for a 10% difference instead of 5%, you could get away with "only" ~650 non-crit heals in each average instead of 2600, etc.
    Dagoreth (Warden) and Belechannas (Lore-master) of Arkenstone

    < No Dorfs >
    Fighting the Dorf menace to Middle Earth since 2008

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    942
    I have tested and again asked around. It turns out that Outgoing Healing is Working As Intended (WAI) but does very little to increase Outgoing Healing. Incoming Healing is not working like Outgoing, it is increasing your own survivability. I have made corrections to my write-up.
    Dadi / Tyrlas - Arkenstone (Leader - Rare Breed Kin)
    dadislotroguides.com

  6. #6
    I did some math to check whether my suggestion of using the average of minimum and maximum values gives a smaller variance than averaging the whole sample.

    It does, biggly. This is a special feature of uniform probability distributions.

    For a uniform distribution on [0,1], the standard deviation is 1/sqrt(12) ~ 0.289. If you average N values drawn from a uniform distribution on [0,1], the standard deviation of the mean will be 1/sqrt(12 * N).

    Instead, suppose we only record the minimum and maximum values drawn from the same distribution and average *those*. In this case, it can be shown (I won't go through the math here) that the standard deviation of this average, if we draw N values, is 1/sqrt(2 N^2 + 6 N + 4).

    This is a huge improvement because for large N, the standard deviation decreases as 1/N instead of 1/sqrt(N).

    For 20 measurements, the standard deviation of the average of all 20 values is 1/sqrt(12 * 20) ~ 0.065. The standard deviation of the average of the minimum and maximum values for the same 20 measurements is 1/sqrt(800+120+4) ~ 0.033.

    And the improvement gets bigger the more measurements you do. With 100 measurements, the standard deviation of the arithmetic average only improves to 0.0289, while the average of minimum and maximum has a standard deviation of 0.007.

    For testing heals, where the range is not [0,1], the numbers quoted are relative to the spread between minimum and maximum tooltip values.
    Dagoreth (Warden) and Belechannas (Lore-master) of Arkenstone

    < No Dorfs >
    Fighting the Dorf menace to Middle Earth since 2008

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Proudcdn View Post
    I have tested and again asked around. It turns out that Outgoing Healing is Working As Intended (WAI) but does very little to increase Outgoing Healing. Incoming Healing is not working like Outgoing, it is increasing your own survivability. I have made corrections to my write-up.
    What do you mean "very little"?

    Outgoing Healing Rating is equal to Tactical Mastery, point-for-point, in terms of increasing your Outgoing Healing (but it doesn't increase your damage at all). I have tested this.

    Items are generally itemized to have significantly more Outgoing Healing Rating due to this limitation, since you would always prefer Tactical Mastery to an *equal* amount of Outgoing Healing.

    As it happens, my LM has received three pairs of items that have identical Will, but one piece also has Outgoing Healing Rating. So I did a test by first equipping the three items without Outgoing Healing Rating:





    Then I swapped those items for the other three which DO have Outgoing Healing:






    Notice that my Will (2612) and Tactical Mastery Rating (29311) are exactly equal in the two screenshots. However, from the gear, you can see that I have 17.3K additional Outgoing Healing in the second screenshot, and this increases my healing bonus from 23.9% (in the Tactical Mastery tooltip of the first shot) to 34.0% (in the tooltip of the second).

    This in turn increases the size of my heal (Beacon of Hope) by the corresponding amount.

    In the first screenshot, the maximum value is 3459. In the second, the maximum value is 3742.

    3459/1.239 = 2792 = 3742/1.340

    So the bonus from Outgoing Healing Rating is applied correctly.

    The minimum values agree similarly.
    Dagoreth (Warden) and Belechannas (Lore-master) of Arkenstone

    < No Dorfs >
    Fighting the Dorf menace to Middle Earth since 2008

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    942
    Quote Originally Posted by LagunaD2 View Post
    What do you mean "very little"?

    Outgoing Healing Rating is equal to Tactical Mastery, point-for-point, in terms of increasing your Outgoing Healing (but it doesn't increase your damage at all). I have tested this.

    Items are generally itemized to have significantly more Outgoing Healing Rating due to this limitation, since you would always prefer Tactical Mastery to an *equal* amount of Outgoing Healing.

    As it happens, my LM has received three pairs of items that have identical Will, but one piece also has Outgoing Healing Rating. So I did a test by first equipping the three items without Outgoing Healing Rating:





    Then I swapped those items for the other three which DO have Outgoing Healing:






    Notice that my Will (2612) and Tactical Mastery Rating (29311) are exactly equal in the two screenshots. However, from the gear, you can see that I have 17.3K additional Outgoing Healing in the second screenshot, and this increases my healing bonus from 23.9% (in the Tactical Mastery tooltip of the first shot) to 34.0% (in the tooltip of the second).

    This in turn increases the size of my heal (Beacon of Hope) by the corresponding amount.

    In the first screenshot, the maximum value is 3459. In the second, the maximum value is 3742.

    3459/1.239 = 2792 = 3742/1.340

    So the bonus from Outgoing Healing Rating is applied correctly.

    The minimum values agree similarly.
    The tooltip says it is a big improvement, is it also in actuality?
    Dadi / Tyrlas - Arkenstone (Leader - Rare Breed Kin)
    dadislotroguides.com

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Proudcdn View Post
    The tooltip says it is a big improvement, is it also in actuality?
    Yes.

    I found a fourth pair of items with/without Outgoing Healing Rating, and I added a Shadowed Essence of Healing to the neckpiece. The effect is to make the difference larger and easier to test. In both setups, my Will and Tactical Mastery are identical, but in the second, I also have 30,187 Outgoing Healing Rating. The effect (in the tooltips) is to raise my Outgoing Healing bonus from 25.7% to 41.5%. And the tooltips for my Heals reflect that appropriately.

    Setup 1: Without Outgoing Healing



    Setup 2: Same Will and Tactical Mastery as above, but 30,187 additional Outgoing Healing Rating from gear



    I then measured 50 non-crit casts of Beacon of Hope on my pet in each setup. The heals in-game agreed perfectly with the tooltip values:

    Setup 1 (no Outgoing Healing Rating from Gear):

    Tooltip: Minimum: 2457 Maximum: 3510 Midpoint: 2983.5
    Logged: Minimum: 2488 Maximum: 3487 Midpoint: 2987.5 +/- 14.5 (statistical)

    Setup 2 (30,187 Outgoing Healing Rating from Gear):

    Tooltip: Minimum: 2766 Maximum: 3951 Midpoint: 3358.5
    Logged: Minimum: 2793 Maximum: 3905 Midpoint: 3349 +/- 16.3 (statistical)

    Out of 100 non-crit heals, none fell outside the range of the tooltips, and as you can see, the full range of the tooltips was covered, as expected.

    By using the midpoint of the range, as I explained in an earlier post, we can very accurately compare with tooltips even with a modest number (50) of casts.

    I hope this will put to rest, once and for all, the myth that there is something wrong with Outgoing Healing Rating as a stat.
    Dagoreth (Warden) and Belechannas (Lore-master) of Arkenstone

    < No Dorfs >
    Fighting the Dorf menace to Middle Earth since 2008

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proudcdn View Post
    The tooltip says it is a big improvement, is it also in actuality?
    Your outgoing healing is less than 30% -- that's pretty small. I'd be looking for at least double that.

    Edit: I should say, you're not really going to see a big improvement from that, but given how poor healing is now you're still going to need at least double what you have now. I believe I'm up around 70%.
    2017: 6 levels and an instance! As a level 1 burglar, Bilbo got a pony when he joined the Smaug The Dragon raid. Then he asked for leadership, looted the chest, assigned himself the 1st age Arkenstone and mailed it to an alt (Bilbo's a VIP so can mail from anywhere). They did some PvMP and an Epic Battle, then he apologized and gave the Arkenstone back because it wasn't BoA. He kept the pony.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Banaticus View Post
    Your outgoing healing is less than 30% -- that's pretty small. I'd be looking for at least double that.

    Edit: I should say, you're not really going to see a big improvement from that, but given how poor healing is now you're still going to need at least double what you have now. I believe I'm up around 70%.
    If you're talking about my character, the one that did the test, I am only level 109, and only have four pieces of gear equipped during the test...
    Dagoreth (Warden) and Belechannas (Lore-master) of Arkenstone

    < No Dorfs >
    Fighting the Dorf menace to Middle Earth since 2008

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    128
    Quote Originally Posted by Banaticus View Post
    Your outgoing healing is less than 30% -- that's pretty small. I'd be looking for at least double that.

    Edit: I should say, you're not really going to see a big improvement from that, but given how poor healing is now you're still going to need at least double what you have now. I believe I'm up around 70%.
    Hmm, isn't 70% the max rating? Without any buffs?? I'm sure if you healed that guard with that amount of outgoing healing percentage, then one or two essences more wouldn't make any noticeable difference.

  13. #13
    Join Date
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    That's what the wiki says, but in game I'm at 71.8%. *shrug*
    2017: 6 levels and an instance! As a level 1 burglar, Bilbo got a pony when he joined the Smaug The Dragon raid. Then he asked for leadership, looted the chest, assigned himself the 1st age Arkenstone and mailed it to an alt (Bilbo's a VIP so can mail from anywhere). They did some PvMP and an Epic Battle, then he apologized and gave the Arkenstone back because it wasn't BoA. He kept the pony.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Banaticus View Post
    That's what the wiki says, but in game I'm at 71.8%. *shrug*
    As always, percentage bonuses are not subject to the caps on ratings.
    Dagoreth (Warden) and Belechannas (Lore-master) of Arkenstone

    < No Dorfs >
    Fighting the Dorf menace to Middle Earth since 2008

 

 

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