We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 40
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    In the Ninky Nonk
    Posts
    5,235

    Do 'Free' Lotro Points really exist?

    So, as I am here on my holidays, sitting on the balcony overlooking the Mediterranean, I started to consider the concept of Lotro points and whether they could ever be truly free. So having pondered this over a glass of tepid sangria, I would to put to you all the notion that every Lotro point issued in the game, the store or through other means has been earned in one way, shape or form.

    Let's consider their means of attainment:

    1. Direct Purchase. Obviously this needs no elaboration. Even the bonus points are not free as these are priced in.

    2. VIP Stipend. The 500lp is part of the purchase so that's a given.

    3. Lifetime Sub Stipend. Again these are not free as they are predicated on the original investment being made when the lifetime sub was bought. Indeed they are no different to a share dividend, paid out solely at the discretion of SSG.

    4. In-game earned LP. These were paid for with the time invested by the player which in turn is commoditised by SSG as active players to fill their game world to show investors how popular the game is. Remember kids, time is money.

    5. Lotro Points issued out of game such as via a store code in an email. Even if the player is not active, their account is commoditised as just one of hundreds of thousands that SSG uses as indications of the game's popularity to investors. Like one's Facebook account, its existence alone is an asset the value of which to be leveraged by the owner.

    So, in conclusion, Lotro points are not free. I leave it to you all to discuss.

    Edit - apologies for the lack of finesse in this post but it as typed out on the iPhone, which is a bit rubbish compared with my cherry keyboard at home.
    <A sig goes here>

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,073
    I don't understand the premise.
    Store points versus cash or as a bonus for spending time in the game, isn't that what it was always down to?

  3. #3
    Tepid sangria??? Don't they have ice cubes up on your Club Med balcony? If I was in your shoes I'd be more worried about that than Lotro Points

  4. #4
    If you're only looking to have a philosophical discussion on your vacation, I'd raise some questions about this:

    Quote Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes View Post
    4. In-game earned LP. These were paid for with the time invested by the player which in turn is commoditised by SSG as active players to fill their game world to show investors how popular the game is. Remember kids, time is money.
    What's the net revenue from SSG's end? How does the potential benefit of investment compare to the cost a non-subscriber incurs while using the servers? Obviously we don't know the specifics, but I have a hard time believing I am going to be a net positive for SSG this year, given that I haven't spent a dime, don't plan to spend a dime, and have played several hundred hours this year so far. Given my past investments, I'm sure I'm a lifetime net positive, but not this year...
    Gyes, et al
    Monarch, Paladins of Asheron
    Arkenstone

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    In the Ninky Nonk
    Posts
    5,235
    Quote Originally Posted by gasconade View Post
    Tepid sangria??? Don't they have ice cubes up on your Club Med balcony? If I was in your shoes I'd be more worried about that than Lotro Points
    It's more a reflection of my enthusiasm for the drink than the availability of room service
    <A sig goes here>

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    In the Ninky Nonk
    Posts
    5,235
    Quote Originally Posted by Macroscian View Post
    I don't understand the premise.
    Store points versus cash or as a bonus for spending time in the game, isn't that what it was always down to?
    No, rather it's a consideration of the extent to which Turbine\WB and now SSG has commoditised and hence monetised our participation in the game and the rewards that we obtain from that. But of course feel free to develop the discussion and take it forward in a different direction
    <A sig goes here>

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyes View Post
    If you're only looking to have a philosophical discussion on your vacation, I'd raise some questions about this:



    What's the net revenue from SSG's end? How does the potential benefit of investment compare to the cost a non-subscriber incurs while using the servers? Obviously we don't know the specifics, but I have a hard time believing I am going to be a net positive for SSG this year, given that I haven't spent a dime, don't plan to spend a dime, and have played several hundred hours this year so far. Given my past investments, I'm sure I'm a lifetime net positive, but not this year...
    Players that dont pay for the game and still play it keep the server busy/alive. Some help others that pay, which makes their playtime more fun and such gives them more reasons to pay. You dont directly influence SSGs income, but for sure, I do that indirectly. And I would have given them money directly, if they sold any mordorpack that doesnt contain Valars, but they dont want my money. Their fault.
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Anführer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
    Deutsche Guides für nahezu alles, was Casuals interessieren könnte, gibts hier: http://gdfv.forumo.de/guides-f24/

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    13,770
    Quote Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes View Post
    [true stuff]

    3. Lifetime Sub Stipend. Again these are not free as they are predicated on the original investment being made when the lifetime sub was bought. Indeed they are no different to a share dividend, paid out solely at the discretion of SSG.
    Quite right. However, $199 US over 10+ years adds up to pretty damn cheap. One of the two best investments I ever made.

    My husband comments, "It was a wager. We were betting (a) that the game would last for at least twenty months (at which point we would have broken even) and that (b) we would still be interested in playing it. We won the bet."

    [more true stuff]
    Nice analysis. Enjoy your holiday.
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Topeka, Ks
    Posts
    540
    Quote Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes View Post
    So, as I am here on my holidays, sitting on the balcony overlooking the Mediterranean, I started to consider the concept of Lotro points and whether they could ever be truly free. So having pondered this over a glass of tepid sangria, I would to put to you all the notion that every Lotro point issued in the game, the store or through other means has been earned in one way, shape or form.

    Let's consider their means of attainment:

    1. Direct Purchase. Obviously this needs no elaboration. Even the bonus points are not free as these are priced in.

    2. VIP Stipend. The 500lp is part of the purchase so that's a given.

    3. Lifetime Sub Stipend. Again these are not free as they are predicated on the original investment being made when the lifetime sub was bought. Indeed they are no different to a share dividend, paid out solely at the discretion of SSG.

    4. In-game earned LP. These were paid for with the time invested by the player which in turn is commoditised by SSG as active players to fill their game world to show investors how popular the game is. Remember kids, time is money.

    5. Lotro Points issued out of game such as via a store code in an email. Even if the player is not active, their account is commoditised as just one of hundreds of thousands that SSG uses as indications of the game's popularity to investors. Like one's Facebook account, its existence alone is an asset the value of which to be leveraged by the owner.

    So, in conclusion, Lotro points are not free. I leave it to you all to discuss.

    Edit - apologies for the lack of finesse in this post but it as typed out on the iPhone, which is a bit rubbish compared with my cherry keyboard at home.
    The VIP & Lifetime stipends are free because SSG/Turbine were not required to give them. Also you get free LP by completeing deeds which they once again not required to give.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,832
    Quote Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes View Post
    So, as I am here on my holidays, sitting on the balcony overlooking the Mediterranean, I started to consider the concept of Lotro points and whether they could ever be truly free.

    4. In-game earned LP. These were paid for with the time invested by the player which in turn is commoditised by SSG as active players to fill their game world to show investors how popular the game is. Remember kids, time is money.
    If you consider time spent to earn the LP as payment, then no - there is no truely free LP.
    So what? Did you have some actual point to make?

  11. #11
    Let's see...

    500 points a month times 12 months = 6,000 points
    6,000 points a year times 10 years = 60,000
    how much does 60,000 Lotro Points cost in the store?
    I paid $200.00 for my lifetime account.
    I think it was a good choice.


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    British Empire
    Posts
    121
    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck1771 View Post
    The VIP & Lifetime stipends are free because SSG/Turbine were not required to give them. .
    THIS.

    When I paid for my lifetime subscription back in 2007, at no point did Codemasters tell me that this would also eventually include 500TP per month. Therefore I consider all my points to be free.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilyana_EU View Post
    THIS.

    When I paid for my lifetime subscription back in 2007, at no point did Codemasters tell me that this would also eventually include 500TP per month. Therefore I consider all my points to be free.
    I'm guessing they did tell you that you'd need to pay to play, though.
    Gyes, et al
    Monarch, Paladins of Asheron
    Arkenstone

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,467
    Do 'Free' Lotro Points really exist?
    No.

    Next question.
    "I went to the trouble and expense of driving my old Honda Civic into a lake to try to prove to you that it won't float. . . only to have you respond: 'Hmmm, interesting. . . would you be willing to drive a Honda Accord into the lake?'"

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wales, United Kingdom
    Posts
    7,090
    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck1771 View Post
    The VIP & Lifetime stipends are free because SSG/Turbine were not required to give them. Also you get free LP by completeing deeds which they once again not required to give.
    Not free. If it weren't for the stipend, I wouldn't entertain buying the sub. It's cheaper to buy points directly and buy the content and other perks, if you exclude the VIP stipend. It's a selling point of the sub, with emphasis on "selling". I can't speak for what the lifetime was originally sold as, because I wasn't here at the time, but from a paying subscriber point of view, the running sub always included a stipend in the purchase price. It's $100 a year and includes points, not $100 a year including free points.
    Monkeys are superior to man in this . . . . When a monkey looks in a mirror, he sees a monkey.
    Edited, because some folk just can't do wordplay.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wales, United Kingdom
    Posts
    7,090
    Quote Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes View Post
    So, as I am here on my holidays, sitting on the balcony overlooking the Mediterranean, I started to consider the concept of Lotro points and whether they could ever be truly free. So having pondered this over a glass of tepid sangria, I would to put to you all the notion that every Lotro point issued in the game, the store or through other means has been earned in one way, shape or form.

    Let's consider their means of attainment:

    1. Direct Purchase. Obviously this needs no elaboration. Even the bonus points are not free as these are priced in.

    2. VIP Stipend. The 500lp is part of the purchase so that's a given.

    3. Lifetime Sub Stipend. Again these are not free as they are predicated on the original investment being made when the lifetime sub was bought. Indeed they are no different to a share dividend, paid out solely at the discretion of SSG.

    4. In-game earned LP. These were paid for with the time invested by the player which in turn is commoditised by SSG as active players to fill their game world to show investors how popular the game is. Remember kids, time is money.

    5. Lotro Points issued out of game such as via a store code in an email. Even if the player is not active, their account is commoditised as just one of hundreds of thousands that SSG uses as indications of the game's popularity to investors. Like one's Facebook account, its existence alone is an asset the value of which to be leveraged by the owner.

    So, in conclusion, Lotro points are not free. I leave it to you all to discuss.

    Edit - apologies for the lack of finesse in this post but it as typed out on the iPhone, which is a bit rubbish compared with my cherry keyboard at home.
    No, not free. Pay with money up front, pay as you go, pay direct or pay with time investment. No free.

    Bottoms up Enjoy your hols. 3 days, and I'm off on mine too, but LP will be the furthest thing from my mind, I'll be too busy in the sea
    Monkeys are superior to man in this . . . . When a monkey looks in a mirror, he sees a monkey.
    Edited, because some folk just can't do wordplay.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,467
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilyana_EU View Post
    THIS.

    When I paid for my lifetime subscription back in 2007, at no point did Codemasters tell me that this would also eventually include 500TP per month. Therefore I consider all my points to be free.
    As soon as Turbine decided, while they figured out their Free-to-Play model, that their subscription package needed a little spicing up (since subscriptions were no longer necessary to access the game, etc.). . . and thus decided that 500TP would be part of the subscription package, they became obligated to also offer that to their lifetime subscribers. They did this because they (unlike some of their own customers, bizarrely) understood that their integrity as a business required it.

    Turbine knew it couldn't say: "Oh, we still offer subscriptions, but your subscription is null and void because we are resetting our business model. Too bad. So sad."

    So long as they are in the business of offering subscriptions for sale, they realize that they need to honor the lifetime subscriptions as subscriptions in perpetuity.

    Codemasters didn't tell you at the time you signed up for your lifetime subscription back in 2007 that a lot of what your subscription was paying for would eventually just be handed out for free either (the game client's ability to connect, access to the starter areas, etc.). Some people (me included) see the 500TP monthly stipend as a bit of "recognition" that many intangibles that used to be purchased by subscribing are now free. . . and thus the value of a subscription was diminished. The 500TP makes up for that.

    So, you can "consider all your points to be free". . . but they ain't. They arrive every month as a result of your having a subscription. Just like a monthly subscriber today. For whom they are not free but are instead coming as a result of their subscription.

    If a monthly subscriber stops subscribing, he won't have much luck getting those "free" 500 points out of SSG.

    --H
    "I went to the trouble and expense of driving my old Honda Civic into a lake to try to prove to you that it won't float. . . only to have you respond: 'Hmmm, interesting. . . would you be willing to drive a Honda Accord into the lake?'"

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    In the Ninky Nonk
    Posts
    5,235
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin View Post
    No.

    Next question.
    And that, my friends is the correct answer. Now all you need to do is theorise as to why that is.
    <A sig goes here>

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,230
    Quote Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes View Post
    Edit - apologies for the lack of finesse in this post but it as typed out on the iPhone, which is a bit rubbish compared with my cherry keyboard at home.
    From drunk dialing to drunk posting...

    Look how far technology has taken us!
    Today is a good day for Pie.

    Do not meddle in the affairs of Burglars, for they are subtle and quick to shank you.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    In the Ninky Nonk
    Posts
    5,235
    Quote Originally Posted by bambubambubambu View Post
    From drunk dialing to drunk posting...

    Look how far technology has taken us!
    If only I had been drunk. I might have posted something half decent!
    <A sig goes here>

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wales, United Kingdom
    Posts
    7,090
    Quote Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes View Post
    If only I had been drunk. I might have posted something half decent!
    Another jug of Sangria will sort that for you.
    Monkeys are superior to man in this . . . . When a monkey looks in a mirror, he sees a monkey.
    Edited, because some folk just can't do wordplay.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    In the Ninky Nonk
    Posts
    5,235
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Another jug of Sangria will sort that for you.
    Nah that stuff is disgusting- Rioja Rose is a much nicer midday tipple!
    <A sig goes here>

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    40
    I suppose it depends on your philosophy of life... if your view is "nothing is free", then neither are LOTRO points. Even those that might be gifted out as a special prize, since it requires a minimal participation on your end.

    Why not give calimocho a try? Fair warning, even at an all-inclusive resort, tepid sangria and calimocho aren't "free" either... and I don't mean the resort price.... but the price after.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Topeka, Ks
    Posts
    540
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyes View Post
    I'm guessing they did tell you that you'd need to pay to play, though.
    No hence the term Lifetime Subscription. I chose the $10 a month option which I regret now since it was basically done away with.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    In the Ninky Nonk
    Posts
    5,235
    Quote Originally Posted by Sprinkling View Post
    I suppose it depends on your philosophy of life... if your view is "nothing is free", then neither are LOTRO points. Even those that might be gifted out as a special prize, since it requires a minimal participation on your end.

    Why not give calimocho a try? Fair warning, even at an all-inclusive resort, tepid sangria and calimocho aren't "free" either... and I don't mean the resort price.... but the price after.
    Interesting - I've never tried a Calimocho before. Normally I just top the glass of red with water and ice to make it refreshing but I'll try it with coke next time.

    And yeah, my first ever drunk experience was when I was 11 and was at a Spanish BBQ with my parents. Sangria topped off with lager & lime and scotch & coke has its consequences.
    <A sig goes here>

 

 
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload