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  1. #1
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    RK Questing in Mordor

    I am taking my RK alt into Mordor next and have some concerns about doing so in fire. What are people's experiences with going through on fire? Do I need to breakdown and make lightning LIs instead? Thanks in advance.
    Thorcar
    Champion on Arkenstone
    Rare Breed

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorcar View Post
    I am taking my RK alt into Mordor next and have some concerns about doing so in fire. What are people's experiences with going through on fire? Do I need to breakdown and make lightning LIs instead? Thanks in advance.
    What's your concern with fire that would be solved by moving to lightning?
    Wal's Army on Evernight - Walred (Champ), Walmur (RK), Walbert-2 (Cappy), Walori (Guard), Walrandir (LM), Walora (Warden), Walmo (Burg)

  3. #3
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    I'm about halfway through the Mordor content (currently in Lhingris) and have been using both fire and lighting. Fire almost exclusively on the general landscape and lightning almost exclusively inside dungeons.

    I found lightning much more survivable when you have multiple mobs in every pull since you have more CC than in fire traits. Kiting is another advantage as is the self heal from sustaining bolt.
    Former resident of Withywindle now settling in on Laurelin :D

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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Mandura View Post
    I'm about halfway through the Mordor content (currently in Lhingris) and have been using both fire and lighting. Fire almost exclusively on the general landscape and lightning almost exclusively inside dungeons.

    I found lightning much more survivable when you have multiple mobs in every pull since you have more CC than in fire traits. Kiting is another advantage as is the self heal from sustaining bolt.
    The only CC I'm missing as a fire RK is Vivid Imagery, just how many mobs to you pull at once? (I'm not criticising just curious as my RK has only dipped a toe in to Mordor)
    Wal's Army on Evernight - Walred (Champ), Walmur (RK), Walbert-2 (Cappy), Walori (Guard), Walrandir (LM), Walora (Warden), Walmo (Burg)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorcar View Post
    I am taking my RK alt into Mordor next and have some concerns about doing so in fire. What are people's experiences with going through on fire? Do I need to breakdown and make lightning LIs instead? Thanks in advance.
    Basically what Mandura replied about. Being a statue to get inductions off while three mobs (there is a lot of use of three in this update) are pounding on you with a shadow buff/debuff.
    Thorcar
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Once_of_Bree View Post
    The only CC I'm missing as a fire RK is Vivid Imagery, just how many mobs to you pull at once? (I'm not criticising just curious as my RK has only dipped a toe in to Mordor)
    I trait the lightning runestone for the slow+stun in redline as well so you are right.

    Even so, Vivid Imagery is a real lifesaver when fighting 5 or so mobs at once which is basically impossible to survive if they are all pounding on you and interrupting your inductions.
    And traited Shocking Touch is also quite useful.

    I really like how the landscape experience is for my RK. I haven't equipped any of the new gear yet and am still managing to get by. Almost through Lhingris now.
    I'm starting to feel the impact of 5-6 shadow tiers but that just makes we want to keep going as is to see how far I can push myself
    Former resident of Withywindle now settling in on Laurelin :D

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  7. #7
    My RK is my no.3 toon after hunter and captain, and I think I'll go in with a very "orange" build - main tree fire but plenty of lightning, down to VI, something along the lines of http://www.lotrottp.lotrostatus.com/l.php?c=7FW - and stack morale so SM heals more. I'm used to pulling mobs with the placeable fire poo while I get essay+essence/combustion up, and I did leave +lightning crit and damage on my brick, so I'll see how far I can get with that. I might swap will to EC damage. I'm sure Mandu and I will be talking about his experiences so far...
    105s: Aedfrith (HN), Aldnoth (CP), Brai (RK), Hrolfdan (MN), Aeldfryd (WD), Morriarty (CH), Aednoth (LM), Mishhar (BR), Hraldan (GR), Rummbold (BG). Tinies - Rumbelina (MN), Aenghus (CP)
    Rangers of Eriador (officer), ex-Snowbourn now Laurelin - A Noob for All Seasons

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedfrith View Post
    I did leave +lightning crit and damage on my brick, so I'll see how far I can get with that. I might swap will to EC damage. I'm sure Mandu and I will be talking about his experiences so far...
    Well, I do have separate LIs for fire and lighting, not a mixed setup. I just switch between the lines when I feel like I need to and don't try to make do with a hybrid build.
    Former resident of Withywindle now settling in on Laurelin :D

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  9. #9
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    Hybrid builds do not work on RK. Only real traiting into "hybrid" would be to pick lightning stone with ground targeting, that's about it. Even traiting mending verse is a waste these days considering strength of the skill (you lose morale faster if you try heal vs multiple opponents while standing still), especially if one doesn't pick induction trait to go along with it.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Mandura View Post
    I'm about halfway through the Mordor content (currently in Lhingris) and have been using both fire and lighting. Fire almost exclusively on the general landscape and lightning almost exclusively inside dungeons.

    I found lightning much more survivable when you have multiple mobs in every pull since you have more CC than in fire traits. Kiting is another advantage as is the self heal from sustaining bolt.
    ^^ Pretty much this! I have to start working on some of the new armor, though. At tier7-8 Shadow, one mistake or stun you can't break, and you're dead. Not having it is really starting to affect on-level fights. I didn't really start to notice this until I started running into the harder lvl 112 mobs.
    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK
    Malakorou - Rank 10 Defiler
    Casinari - Original Challenger of Saruman Minstrel

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorcar View Post
    I am taking my RK alt into Mordor next and have some concerns about doing so in fire. What are people's experiences with going through on fire? Do I need to breakdown and make lightning LIs instead? Thanks in advance.
    I've just come back from a big break after I found big battles unfulfilling compared to the classic raids. I find that leveling as Lightning is just too good with mobility. These mobs hits hard so if you can kite and kill then that's best imo. I plan on switching to fire for dungeons and raids after cap because it sounds like it does more dps. But survivability is most important right now so lightning it is.

  12. #12
    I was doing fine with fire until I bumped into the Cargul in Dol Amarth. Then I was dead, dead, and, oh look, dead again.

    Spent yesterday evening putting together a set of lightening LIs so I can try again. I haven't played lightening for a few years, so it should be an adventure.

  13. #13
    Hybrid RK builds are absolutely viable, especially with the amount of trait points we have available. Traiting anything in Blue isn't even necessary (nor is using any of the 3 stones, when it comes to it), since Yellow/Red will suffice to destroy almost anything you encounter once you have decent (NOT raid) gear. Personally, I spec Lightning; however, almost 50 of my trait points are in Fire. The mobility more than makes up for the overall higher DPS Fire enjoys. Try it - you may like it.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by mosselyn View Post
    I was doing fine with fire until I bumped into the Cargul in Dol Amarth. Then I was dead, dead, and, oh look, dead again.

    Spent yesterday evening putting together a set of lightening LIs so I can try again. I haven't played lightening for a few years, so it should be an adventure.
    I had the same issue. It seems like Cargul do have increased fire resistance compared to most other creatures. Fire RK's still deal enough damage to melt them. HOWEVER, they have a reflect damage skill that procs and cannot be removed, it's not a wound or a corruption. It doesn't even seem to proc any tooltips under their icons to even determine that it's there.

    So, while we're dealing huge amounts of damage, RK's just melt our own faces off. I can 1-1 a single Cargul and end the fight with about 5k morale out of 40k left at lvl112 against the Cargul in Dor Amarth and the Wardens in Baradur. If I try to extend the fight for extra healing cycles, I just take more damage by letting the Cargul get up to me. If I aggro more than one, well, forget about it. Kill one, run away, come back and hope nothing is respawning is pretty much the only solution other than bringing a friend.

    I see any other class walking up and the Cargul get taken down no problem. Ran through Baradur with a Champ with average gear and the couple levels lower, and he would take on two Cargul at once and still have a decent amount of health left. He was even off-tanking them while I attacked from a distance and I was still killing myself. If I stopped and let him deal, he wouldn't have the same issue. Then I see Hunters that nearly one shot the Cargul at level and take nearly no damage. I just ran a Warden through Baradur, and while he's struggling now at with critters at 115, the creatures from 108-114 were a joke. At 114 he could pull 5-7 mobs at a time with health to spare as long as he doesn't get stun locked.

    Between that and all the finesse issues with enemies constantly resisting most of my attacks, well...

    There's something very wrong with the numbers.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by HobbitOfLoathing View Post
    I had the same issue. It seems like Cargul do have increased fire resistance compared to most other creatures. Fire RK's still deal enough damage to melt them. HOWEVER, they have a reflect damage skill that procs and cannot be removed, it's not a wound or a corruption. It doesn't even seem to proc any tooltips under their icons to even determine that it's there.

    So, while we're dealing huge amounts of damage, RK's just melt our own faces off. I can 1-1 a single Cargul and end the fight with about 5k morale out of 40k left at lvl112 against the Cargul in Dor Amarth and the Wardens in Baradur. If I try to extend the fight for extra healing cycles, I just take more damage by letting the Cargul get up to me. If I aggro more than one, well, forget about it. Kill one, run away, come back and hope nothing is respawning is pretty much the only solution other than bringing a friend.

    I see any other class walking up and the Cargul get taken down no problem. Ran through Baradur with a Champ with average gear and the couple levels lower, and he would take on two Cargul at once and still have a decent amount of health left. He was even off-tanking them while I attacked from a distance and I was still killing myself. If I stopped and let him deal, he wouldn't have the same issue. Then I see Hunters that nearly one shot the Cargul at level and take nearly no damage. I just ran a Warden through Baradur, and while he's struggling now at with critters at 115, the creatures from 108-114 were a joke. At 114 he could pull 5-7 mobs at a time with health to spare as long as he doesn't get stun locked.

    Between that and all the finesse issues with enemies constantly resisting most of my attacks, well...

    There's something very wrong with the numbers.

    Ummmm, just a throught here but..... have you ever heared of the Solitary Thunder (yellow) lightning trait line of the Rune-keeper?


    Oh and the reflect *does* show up as a buff icon below the Carguls vitals display. However, it is only applied once you engage them in combat. They seem to cast it first thing after getting aggroed. I can't remember off the top of my head if I saw an indcution indicator while they were casting it so I haven't yet tried to interrupt them but if that is possible then Carguls shouldn't be a problem even for fire RKs. Will check that once I'm done with the normal questlines (currently in the red swamp area) and start doing the crafting instances.
    Former resident of Withywindle now settling in on Laurelin :D

    The Bandits Raid Alliance - Laurelin
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Mandura View Post
    Ummmm, just a throught here but..... have you ever heared of the Solitary Thunder (yellow) lightning trait line of the Rune-keeper?


    Oh and the reflect *does* show up as a buff icon below the Carguls vitals display. However, it is only applied once you engage them in combat. They seem to cast it first thing after getting aggroed. I can't remember off the top of my head if I saw an indcution indicator while they were casting it so I haven't yet tried to interrupt them but if that is possible then Carguls shouldn't be a problem even for fire RKs. Will check that once I'm done with the normal questlines (currently in the red swamp area) and start doing the crafting instances.
    I went back and tested them more closely in the northern Dor Amarth ruins. I didn't see the tooltip previously, but it is there. It can't be interrupted, and it can't be removed. I tried various timings of Final Word, but the reflect skill in insta-cast, and doesn't get removed.

    It does seem to be mostly that they have high fire resistance, so dealing too much fire damage means too much damage reflected. I don't use yellow line because I only have a maxed out Fire and Healing set of LI's. Even at a half-built up LI, the reflected damage was much less and I was able to kill them without killing myself. I guess I just need to spend another hundred hours of a third set of Legendary items and swap back and forth between trait trees on landscape... as though that's a reasonable game design solution.

    During my testing, however, I had more than one hunter, and a champion, come and blow through the Cargul in ways I just couldn't, regardless of my trait spec. It wasn't even close. I inspected some, and they were lower level with inferior stats and just landscape gear.

    There's still something very wrong with the numbers.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by HobbitOfLoathing View Post
    During my testing, however, I had more than one hunter, and a champion, come and blow through the Cargul in ways I just couldn't, regardless of my trait spec. It wasn't even close. I inspected some, and they were lower level with inferior stats and just landscape gear.

    There's still something very wrong with the numbers.
    The difference is that they aren't doing a damage type that the Cargul can reflect. They can only reflect Common, Westernesse, Ancient Dwarf-make, and Fire damage. From what I've seen, most people deal Beleriand damage due to LI titles, so their damage isn't reflected. Wardens mostly deal Light damage, which also isn't reflected. There have been a few times when, on my hunter, I've forgotten to change from Fire-oil before starting a fight with a Cargul. It hurts. Since you can't change the damage types of your fire skills, don't use them on Cargul (or any wraiths).

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by HobbitOfLoathing View Post
    ... There's still something very wrong with the numbers.
    That depends on what you mean by "wrong". I don't think there's anything wrong. They reflect fire damage so my red line rune-keeper also struggles with Carguls. Need to go yellow line for them, which is difficult because like you my legendaries are set up mostly for red line.
    Last edited by DarthKeryx; Jul 18 2018 at 08:34 AM.
    Ngaemond 115 Cpt | Ngeowyn 115 Wrd | Ngali 115 Ch | Ngorbadoc 115 Hnt | Ngollwydha 115 Brg | Ngoin 115 Min | | Ngori 115 Rk | Ngalwen 110 Cpt | Ngurin 108 Grd | Ngamarie 108 Cpt Arkenstone | Pro tip = How someone behaves in game reflects how s/he behaves in real life.

 

 

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