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  1. #1

    Updated Human (female) model

    The new textures are nice on the human female updates but....they look like they're about 12 years old. lol.

    Most of my dislike is in their eyes. The iris area seems too small, and the eyes are very droopy and sleepy. They look like they're ready for a nap..not battle :P

    Here's my human live vs BR. I like the newer softened textures but..I just can't get past the sleepiness. (Just a bit more eye-liner on the top lid would help?)





    *Editing to add a suggestion for the sleepy eyes. I took a screenshot of my toon on BR, then used a simple paint program to open one eye up, and enlarge the iris. I didn't do much, but on the side I suggest a more open eye, hopefully what I'm trying to describe makes sense lol (A is suggested edit by me....B is on BR currently)

    Last edited by MerryCav; Jul 18 2017 at 10:47 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    104
    Wow, big improvement! The old version looks very plastic, doll like. The new one has much more life to her.

  3. #3
    Yeah the eyes need work. There is too much eyelid showing imo. You were able to get you character to look better than my attempts though. I will have to mess around with the options a bit more.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Rohan
    Posts
    995
    Mouths are still funky, I think. Especially after you get past character creation. Makes it look like her face is gonna split in two when she smiles that ridiculous wide smile.

    Exhibit A (During CharGen):


    Exhibit B (After CharGen):
    Aethelbehrt ~ Captain of Landroval
    Haradwen ~ Warden of Landroval
    Zôraphel ~ Burglar of Landroval

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    87
    The most recent issue I've stumbled upon is the face clipping the human females have when wearing masks.


  6. #6
    My greatest problem with the new faces (female and male to some degree) are that for me the former differences with the heads are now reduced to the nose changing form.

    If I click trough the heads manually or use the chance appearance button (which often brought some nice results in the past) the faces look far more the same. The eyes seem to remain (almost) unchanged and for me they dominate the faces (not in a positive way) no matter what different eyebrows or mouths are used. Imho the faces lose the bit of individuality they had before.

    For most of my old chars I won't use them. For some chars that aren't that set in their looks for me I will try them out.

  7. #7
    I don't mind the new faces particularly on my toons but I noticed that that tight low bun hairstyle almost seems to separate from my character when she runs and that should probably be addressed. I had to change to another updo style so that it stopped happening. The body slider seemed to work okay. I liked that the most.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by MerryCav View Post
    The new textures are nice on the human female updates but....they look like they're about 12 years old. lol.

    Most of my dislike is in their eyes. The iris area seems too small, and the eyes are very droopy and sleepy. They look like they're ready for a nap..not battle :P

    Here's my human live vs BR. I like the newer softened textures but..I just can't get past the sleepiness. (Just a bit more eye-liner on the top lid would help?)





    *Editing to add a suggestion for the sleepy eyes. I took a screenshot of my toon on BR, then used a simple paint program to open one eye up, and enlarge the iris. I didn't do much, but on the side I suggest a more open eye, hopefully what I'm trying to describe makes sense lol (A is suggested edit by me....B is on BR currently)

    I love physical Anthropology, so I can identify a lot of traits in a single photo, just for hobby and I can say, the big iris is what exactly separate the old models from the new ones, giving new ones, the needed realism some of us wanted, de-cartoonizing our toons. Second point, models have not sleepy eyes, that's subjective, since for having sleepy eyes, you need a trait called 'external super ciliary arche' present, that the new toons does not have. They seem more pacific due to the slight smile and the thick and upped eyebrow with a leaning, but that's all.

    So no change in the eyes are needed, since these are the kernel of the toons revamping.
    Last edited by Canissinister; Jul 18 2017 at 05:23 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    259
    I really love what you've done in that A vs B thing, OP.

    I think that what you've done is way less jarringly "new" now. They seem to fit the game's aesthetic better.

    Aerlinneth's Page at The Laurelin Archives

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Canissinister View Post
    I love physical Anthropology, so I can identify a lot of traits in a single photo, just for hobby and I can say, the big iris is what exactly separate the old models from the new ones, giving new ones, the needed realism some of us wanted, de-cartoonizing our toons. Second point, models have not sleepy eyes, that's subjective, since for having sleepy eyes, you need a trait called 'external super ciliary arche' present, that the new toons does not have. They seem more pacific due to the slight smile and the tight and upped eyebrow with a leaning, but that's all.

    So no change in the eyes are needed, since these are the kernel of the toons revamping.
    Interesting take And yes, it is certainly subjective. I call them "sleepy" because the upper lid is closed almost half-way (resting just above the pupil). In real life...I never see active, engaged people with their eyes that closed, unless they are sleepy and not engaged (such as relaxing watching TV or something) Certainly wouldn't expect to see them nearly 1/2 closed while out fighting orcs. lol

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by MerryCav View Post
    Interesting take And yes, it is certainly subjective. I call them "sleepy" because the upper lid is closed almost half-way (resting just above the pupil). In real life...I never see active, engaged people with their eyes that closed, unless they are sleepy and not engaged (such as relaxing watching TV or something) Certainly wouldn't expect to see them nearly 1/2 closed while out fighting orcs. lol
    It's a normal lid opening, otherwise if you enlarge iris, you get cartonished toons again, and if not, you get a looking of a weirdo girl, this I admit that could fright some orcs in battle haha. Anyway, do you have a profile view side from your toon? So that I can scan the face and bring the renderings here just for test some new traits on her

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Canissinister View Post
    It's a normal lid opening, otherwise if you enlarge iris, you get cartonished toons again, and if not, you get a looking of a weirdo girl, this I admit that could fright some orcs in battle haha. Anyway, do you have a profile view side from your toon? So that I can scan the face and bring the renderings here just for test some new traits on her
    I didn't have profile shots, but just went and took some for you

    One thing about the iris....in the original live versions, they appear "doll-like" I think because they are too big and leave very little white of the eye showing (so the eye looks cartoony for sure) If you look at the BR ones as they are..it is the opposite. I just think there's too much white, and not enough iris (like they were over-corrected)

    Also, in these profile shots, I think the eyes are kind of sunken back too far (in the socket, and a bit on the face)

    Here you go!




  13. #13
    Ok, this I got. Note the program doesn't render any hair, but isn't hard to put on her some cool style. Note either, she got partially humanized:

    Normal face:


    Profile view:


    Sleepy face:


    Killing some orcs face:


    If you want I could send you the modelling program and the model for your toon, so you can test it in all ways In PM

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Canissinister View Post
    I love physical Anthropology, so I can identify a lot of traits in a single photo, just for hobby and I can say, the big iris is what exactly separate the old models from the new ones, giving new ones, the needed realism some of us wanted, de-cartoonizing our toons. Second point, models have not sleepy eyes, that's subjective, since for having sleepy eyes, you need a trait called 'external super ciliary arche' present, that the new toons does not have. They seem more pacific due to the slight smile and the tight and upped eyebrow with a leaning, but that's all.

    So no change in the eyes are needed, since these are the kernel of the toons revamping.
    I like A (your changes) better then B. The bigger iris look better to me and still is smaller then what we have.

  15. #15
    New faces are an improvement(although they DO have a baby face) but here's one issue I've always had with the old models that I don't see being resolved:



    I'm not an anatomy expert but I garantee, 100%, based on personal experience, cross my heart and swear to die, that THIS is not how it goes. It looks horrible in armour, in dresses, in tunics...

    I see the new Elves/High Elves bodies have been updated (I think? I don't have any elven characters)



    Are we going to see the floaters disappear on Race of Men too?

    I hope so...

  16. #16
    I think the new human female faces look great overall! Much improved over the old ones.

    The one thing I would like as well are some changes to the eyes.

    Yes, they do have a sleepy look (so do high elves, but theirs are more sad.) The eyelid doesn't go all the way up. A slightly larger, more 'open' eye would be great. Not all humans are shifty burglars.
    I also think the iris is too small... the old ones were much too big, would only like to see them enlarged very slightly.
    Darker eyelashes please! Also kinda missing the old smoky eyeliner look.

    As for body shape, I like the current/live one. Not a fan of the change to female elves shirts/breastplates if it stays that way.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    East coast
    Posts
    455
    Quote Originally Posted by Pollucx View Post
    New faces are an improvement(although they DO have a baby face) but here's one issue I've always had with the old models that I don't see being resolved:



    I'm not an anatomy expert but I garantee, 100%, based on personal experience, cross my heart and swear to die, that THIS is not how it goes. It looks horrible in armour, in dresses, in tunics...

    I see the new Elves/High Elves bodies have been updated (I think? I don't have any elven characters)



    Are we going to see the floaters disappear on Race of Men too?

    I hope so...
    Yes, Elf/High Elf bodies have been updated and now they actually wear armor that offers protection and padding instead of exposing all the vital organs.
    I am very happy with this update, it is much more realistic.
    Finally armor on Elf ladies looks like armor, and not playtex.

    To anyone concerned: when Elf ladies wear dresses, or robes, or tunics, their chest areas are not 'repressed' The update only affects armor - good realistic improvement. In battle, chest area needs protection, not exposure.

    I do also hope the same change will come for human female toons. More protection for chest when wearing armor, it shouldn't float. I really hope the body slider will be adjusted so that the extreme strongest side actually makes them look stronger and not just fat or chubby: broader shoulders, stronger arms, less willowy lanky overall.

    But I really dislike how new female human toons stand now... Why so catty postures? Like escorts in Bree back alley. Kinda trashy.

    I liked the old posture more: simply standing straight, nothing pretentious. Just basic standing.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by MerryCav View Post
    (A is suggested edit by me....B is on BR currently)


    I actually like the eyes on Bullroarer more, they look more realistic then the 1 you edited. In the edited version the iris looks cloudy to me, kind of like a blind persons eye looks like ( no offense to anyone, it's just the best way I could try and describe it). Also, the eyeball looks to big.

    Maybe instead of them changing the way the eyes look for eye one, maybe they could instead of just adding makeup in the eye adjustment thingie they could make different eye shapes for people to choose from?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Jurny View Post
    I actually like the eyes on Bullroarer more, they look more realistic then the 1 you edited. In the edited version the iris looks cloudy to me, kind of like a blind persons eye looks like ( no offense to anyone, it's just the best way I could try and describe it). Also, the eyeball looks to big.

    Maybe instead of them changing the way the eyes look for eye one, maybe they could instead of just adding makeup in the eye adjustment thingie they could make different eye shapes for people to choose from?
    lol..sorry for the cloudy appearance. I didn't actually paint anything new...I used a "smudge" tool to sort of pull the color over and up (to make it bigger and the eye look more open size wise...definitely didn't mean it as a polished product) So yes..it probably does look cloudy heh

    I agree that offering different eye shapes would be the BEST idea...would definitely be able to satisfy a wider range of opinions on what looks best!

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by MerryCav View Post
    lol..sorry for the cloudy appearance. I didn't actually paint anything new...I used a "smudge" tool to sort of pull the color over and up (to make it bigger and the eye look more open size wise...definitely didn't mean it as a polished product) So yes..it probably does look cloudy heh

    I agree that offering different eye shapes would be the BEST idea...would definitely be able to satisfy a wider range of opinions on what looks best!
    Sorry if I was overly critical, I thought everyone that was liking your edited version also liked the cloudy look. lol I kept looking at it and thinking hmmm... but but it looks cloudy to me. lol

    Otherwise nice work!

  21. #21

    Lips

    Greetings all,

    I really enjoyed reading this thread and found some remakes interesting. I just figured that they were not finished with them due to the blinking of the eyelid was unrealistic and only the eyeliner on the eyelid would actually blink and you would still see the eyeball exposed somewhat.

    Concerning the lips..... Most of the bottom lips were overly BIG! Some tweaking there needs to be addressed. The old lips for the human females, were not overly big on the bottom compared to this new build.

    Looking forward to seeing how this issue is address!

    Happy Days Ahead!

 

 

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