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  1. #1

    @Tybur PvMP Scaled Corruptions Feedback

    First impressions from a semi-thorough run through (if not overly mathematical) of changes on live.


    Finesse: Finesse has not been scaled. 13.5k finesse at rank 13 gives me 4% finesse

    Live 13k finesse= 23.8
    Beta 13.5k finesse= 4%

    Critical Rating: Takes 4 crit corruptions to cap, so crit corruptions could use a slight buff (optimally 3 would be capped as it is on live).

    Live 6 crit slotted (27k)= 46.2% crit multiplier
    Beta 6 crit slotted (90k)= 41.7% crit multiplier

    132k Pmit 52% crit defense= 6.5k bestial claws with Tome of Defense (6 mastery, 6 crit slotted).

    Base crit needs to be buffed by 20k and corruptions nerfed by 3.3k.

    Crit mag on corruptions could be probably use a nerfing. We have a problem of too hard to get Crit rating cap, but Crit mag being too high.


    Mastery:

    Live:

    Claws (tooltip):
    3.6k with no mastery
    3.9k with 3 mastery
    4.1k with 6 mastery

    Increase of 14% from 0 mastery to 6 mastery.

    Beta:
    4.8k claws with no mastery
    5.7k claws with 3 mastery
    6.5k with 6 mastery

    Increase of 35% from 0 mastery to 6 mastery.

    Mastery seems to be significantly stronger. This is a good sign, however it's irrelevant because no one will be able to slot Mastery because Creep mitigations right now are so abysmal.


    Critical Defense:

    Live:

    0 slotted= 22%
    1= 35.8
    2= 45.4%
    3= 52.5

    Beta:

    0 slotted= 6.7%
    1= 25.6%
    2= 38.1%
    3= 47.1%


    Base crit D (along with Base mitigations) needs to be scaled way up. The Corruptions themselves seem fine, but the base stat for Creeps is too low- needs to be scaled up 10-12k for base.



    Mitigations:

    Live with 0 slotted (Pack Elder, no Foe of the Light) and no armor buff:

    Pmit: 40.7% Beleriand
    Tmit: 28.1% Fire

    3 slotted:

    Pmit: 61.3
    Tmit: 51.5

    6 slotted:

    Pmit: 68.6
    Tmit: 63.1

    Beta:

    0 Slotted

    Pmit: 20.4
    Tmit: 3.2

    3 slotted:

    Pmit: 49.3
    Tmit: 37.4

    6 slotted:

    Pmit: 63.6
    Tmit: 54.1

    Base mitigations for Creeps are awful, especially when you have only 12 corruptions slots to deal with. Overall base mitigations for Creeps needs to be scaled up significantly (18-22k each), and a small nerf to each mitigation corruption (around 1.5k less each corruption, most likely).


    Resistance:

    Live: 5.5k= 12.3%

    Beta: 6k= 3.7%

    Base resist needs to be scaled up 16k

    ETC corruptions:

    Damage for X corruptions need to be scaled up from 2.5% and 5% to 5% and 10% damage, respectively, as overall damage % has been scaled up with the Mastery changes. 5% Damage for Power, for example, does significantly less on live.

    Morale seems to be scaled up 30%, which seems fine. Overall freeps seem to have Morale scaled up by about 40-50%


    ETC corruptions:

    Damage for X corruptions need to be scaled up from 2.5% and 5% to 5% and 10% damage, respectively, as overall damage % has been scaled up with the Mastery changes. 5% Damage for Power, for example, does significantly less on live.

    Morale seems to be scaled up 30%, which seems fine. Overall freeps seem to have Morale scaled up by about 40-50%.


    For individual classes:

    Blackarrow: Main hard hitting skills when they crit (Revenge, VT) are critting for a ton of damage. OVerall nerf needed, it seems.

    Defiler: Heals seem to have been scaled too high. Heals shouldn't be boosted to counter damage, defense either need a buff or damage needs a nerf (when in the Ettenmoors). Heals need to be nerfed. Possibly the same on WLs, but I haven't tested.

    Reaver: Overall DPS seems pretty high. Impale crits are hitting for a little over double what they hit on live (with similiar mitigation levels). Impale is hitting far too hard, and it appears to be buggy. Its tooltip is just barely over devastating strike, but the initial hit of impale is hitting for almost double the same hit from Devastating Strike. Nerf Impale, and perhaps spread the damage to other skills.

    Warg: Seems fine if damage is redistributed away from Bestial Claws and given to Swipe, Scratch and Snip, Rend, Pounce, and Eye Gouge and assuming Crit mag overall is reduced (via corruption magnitude nerf, preferably).

    Spider: Wildly OP. Crits from the initial hits are off the charts, and the Power drains needs to be nerfed into the floor.



    OVERALL:

    I think it might be necessary to increase Audacity damage reduction pending this Freep LI/gear buff.

    Now may be the time to buff Creep stats across the board significantly (mits, morale, mastery, crit) and make Corruptions only smaller boosts, rather than dictating how you'll be forced to play. Either that, or possibly adding another 3 slots of corruptions.
    Will be updated as I have more info. Thanks.
    Last edited by Spilo; Jul 17 2017 at 12:57 PM.
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  2. #2
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    impale is working as intended, but its magnitude on crit hits is maybe indeed overrated. Would say, decrease crit magnitude from impale by 10% and change that to overall dps output

    warg needs a nerf on overall crit magnitude by 20% I'd say, cuz I get oneshotted in 5 sec on heavy class

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteGoliath View Post
    impale is working as intended, but its magnitude on crit hits is maybe indeed overrated. Would say, decrease crit magnitude from impale by 10% and change that to overall dps output

    warg needs a nerf on overall crit magnitude by 20% I'd say, cuz I get oneshotted in 5 sec on heavy class
    With warg is it because you are scaled or don't have capped mits? 5s shouldn't be happening if you have the new mit curve mastered and aren't scaled. I'd be cool with crit mag across the board being reduced and mastery increased.
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  4. #4
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    They haven't scaled Core Passive Skills (Armour, Crit Defence, Avoidance, Resistance), Battle Promotion (Finesse) and a few traits / skills.
    Yep Mastery is finally worthwhile traiting, please buff 3-set bonus too. (5% Damage is just low and not useful for healers)
    I disagree with Critical Rating though: As a Warg I can reach upto 105k Critical Rating with Frenzy up. Cap is around 70k. Imo they should nerf it slightly but it all depends how much base-line survivebility we will have next update.

    As for Defilers: I think they should nerf the HoT ticks slightly but leave all intitial / expiration / burst healing as it is.

    I really like this update, you simply can't have everything useful maxed out / capped out and there are many trade-offs like in the old days. As long as base-line is decent, which they will hopefully resolve with scaling the mentioned left-overs above.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteGoliath View Post
    impale is working as intended, but its magnitude on crit hits is maybe indeed overrated. Would say, decrease crit magnitude from impale by 10% and change that to overall dps output

    warg needs a nerf on overall crit magnitude by 20% I'd say, cuz I get oneshotted in 5 sec on heavy class
    Totally agree! Warg need a nerf on crit!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Spilo View Post
    With warg is it because you are scaled or don't have capped mits? 5s shouldn't be happening if you have the new mit curve mastered and aren't scaled. I'd be cool with crit mag across the board being reduced and mastery increased.
    Sounds like fair deal imo!

  7. #7
    Nice work. I hope they make creeps less reliant on mitigation traits, and fix finesse. However we need to remember it doesnt matter if creeps cant reach exact lvl 105 % numbers on all stats since freeps get relative % nerf as well.

  8. #8
    I have 2 top tips for Devs to look into:



    1. Buff creep basevalues before additional corruptions are being added. Should reach close to the base percentages as is on live atm, or higher. -> Nerf the corruptions if needed.

    2. Remove 15% critical magnitude from the critical corruptions completely! And i mean completely! -> This will need re-balancing with putting more mastery into the creeps. Or maybe a bigger buff to the mastery corruptions.



    Reason:
    All the creep classes were not designed at all for big critical magnitude buffs. If you take away the critical magnitude from the corruptions, the balance between creep classes will start to act like normal again. Here's the pros for removing crit mag:



    - Balance between BA/warg/reaver/weaver dps should get back to normal.

    - There will be no insane big hits from VT, Revenge, Impale, Bestial Claws, (insert big hitting Weaver skill here). And it will also take away the big RNG event that it is atm, with critting or not critting the BIG skills. The classes will be rotation dependant again to put out high dps, rather than a one hit, one crit wonder. Wargs included, since Bestial crits will be smaller.

    - Passive evade/block/parry hits will be way bigger than it is atm. -> Creeps will have higher uncritted hits, meaning higher passived b/p/e'd hits. And of course smaller critted/devestated hits. Total DPS should stay around the same.

    - Speaking as a BA main; Blackarrow has 4 skills that isn't being affected by crit magnitude at the moment:
    Flaming arrow is critting, but is not getting bigger crit ticks from magnitude. Fire Trap, Snare and Exposive Arrow can't crit. Fire Trap and Snare isn't affected by mastery. Easiest fix for sure is just removing critical magnitude for creeps, as the BA will work way better with a mastery buff, than the 90% critical magnitude as is on live. VT and Revenge, and big instant bow hits, will ofc crit for less. Smaller hits will be more important again. Meaning a good rotation is once again needed to put out a good BA parse.
    Last edited by Seodric; Oct 12 2017 at 09:02 PM.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Seodric View Post
    I have 2 top tips for Devs to look into:



    1. Buff creep basevalues before additional corruptions are being added. Should reach close to the base percentages as is on live atm, or higher. -> Nerf the corruptions if needed.

    2. Remove 15% critical magnitude from the critical corruptions completely! And i mean completely! -> This will need re-balancing with putting more mastery into the creeps. And maybe a bigger buff to the mastery corruptions.



    Reason:
    All the creep classes were not designed at all for big critical magnitude buffs. If you take away the critical magnitude from the corruptions, the balance between creep classes will start to act like normal again. Here's the pros for removing crit mag:



    - Balance between BA/warg/reaver/weaver dps should get back to normal.

    - There will be no insane big hits from VT, Revenge, Impale, Bestial Claws, (insert big hitting Weaver skill here). And it will also take away the big RNG event that it is atm, with critting or not critting the BIG skills. The classes will be rotation dependant again to put out high dps, rather than a one hit, one crit wonder. Wargs included, since Bestial crits will be smaller.

    - Passive evade/block/parry hits will be way bigger than it is atm. -> Creeps will have higher uncritted hits, meaning higher passived b/p/e'd hits. And of course smaller critted/devestated hits. Total DPS should stay around the same.

    - Speaking as a BA main; Blackarrow has 4 skills that isn't being affected by crit magnitude at the moment:
    Flaming arrow is critting, but is not getting bigger crit ticks from magnitude. Fire Trap, Snare and Exposive Arrow can't crit. Fire Trap and Snare isn't affected by mastery. Easiest fix for sure is just removing critical magnitude for creeps, as the BA will work way better with a mastery buff, than the 90% critical magnitude as is on live. VT and Revenge, and big instant bow hits, will ofc crit for less. Smaller hits will be more important again. Meaning a good rotation is once again needed to put out a good BA parse.
    Solid advice here.
    ~Rank 11 Loremaster, Arkenstone~

    ~Rank 13 Warg, Arkenstone~

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Seodric View Post
    I have 2 top tips for Devs to look into:



    1. Buff creep basevalues before additional corruptions are being added. Should reach close to the base percentages as is on live atm, or higher. -> Nerf the corruptions if needed.

    2. Remove 15% critical magnitude from the critical corruptions completely! And i mean completely! -> This will need re-balancing with putting more mastery into the creeps. And maybe a bigger buff to the mastery corruptions.



    Reason:
    All the creep classes were not designed at all for big critical magnitude buffs. If you take away the critical magnitude from the corruptions, the balance between creep classes will start to act like normal again. Here's the pros for removing crit mag:



    - Balance between BA/warg/reaver/weaver dps should get back to normal.

    - There will be no insane big hits from VT, Revenge, Impale, Bestial Claws, (insert big hitting Weaver skill here). And it will also take away the big RNG event that it is atm, with critting or not critting the BIG skills. The classes will be rotation dependant again to put out high dps, rather than a one hit, one crit wonder. Wargs included, since Bestial crits will be smaller.

    - Passive evade/block/parry hits will be way bigger than it is atm. -> Creeps will have higher uncritted hits, meaning higher passived b/p/e'd hits. And of course smaller critted/devestated hits. Total DPS should stay around the same.

    - Speaking as a BA main; Blackarrow has 4 skills that isn't being affected by crit magnitude at the moment:
    Flaming arrow is critting, but is not getting bigger crit ticks from magnitude. Fire Trap, Snare and Exposive Arrow can't crit. Fire Trap and Snare isn't affected by mastery. Easiest fix for sure is just removing critical magnitude for creeps, as the BA will work way better with a mastery buff, than the 90% critical magnitude as is on live. VT and Revenge, and big instant bow hits, will ofc crit for less. Smaller hits will be more important again. Meaning a good rotation is once again needed to put out a good BA parse.
    Absolutely accurate, I hope a blue name sees this and takes note.
    Feailuve - Akabath
    [EN]Evernight

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Spilo View Post
    Base mitigations for Creeps are awful, especially when you have only 12 corruptions slots to deal with. Overall base mitigations for Creeps needs to be scaled up significantly (18-22k each), and a small nerf to each mitigation corruption (around 1.5k less each corruption, most likely).
    Mostly agreed, but this..Freeps are reporting the same thing, that mitigations caps are extremly hard to reach (especially for orc-craft) and the few essence slots really make you sacrifice something else for mitigation

    So in that sense it seems fine to me, that both sides need to actually invest in mitigations at the cost of something

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris91 View Post
    Mostly agreed, but this..Freeps are reporting the same thing, that mitigations caps are extremly hard to reach (especially for orc-craft) and the few essence slots really make you sacrifice something else for mitigation

    So in that sense it seems fine to me, that both sides need to actually invest in mitigations at the cost of something
    I can understand that, but one bad turn does not justify another. I think the new Freep mit caps are a horrible, horrible decision, and both sides of the issue need to be resolved. In addition, Creep base mitigations are in the 20% and 5% area, which is significantly worse than what Freeps deals with.
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  13. #13
    Agreed with most opinions here on this thread. Really wish we had audacity armor right now for freep to test things much better , because balance might change if the armor is gonna be introduced later. Also why there is no way to get my copied live toon to level 115 in tavern...Why High elfs can't get to rank 15...These are just crippling me to create a new toon and all remake LI's, it takes hours ...

    Anyways, to comment on a general overview about PvMP currently in beta, the overall dps and the heals for both sides are really high resulting in short burst fights ending in seconds. Damage is also really RNG depending on crits. The gap between normal/partial BPE'd hit and a critical hit is way too high atm. So my suggestions will try to cover those problems.

    General things that certainly needs to be done for next beta:

    - NPC's are too strong now. Their damage is kind of fine or lowish on some mobs, but their morale is way too high. It needs to be toned down. Especailly the npc's that creeps need to deal with. Boss monsters (elite,signature and above) seems to have exceptionally high morale. I'd say halve their morale for now and let us test it again.
    - Level scaling is too strong. Lvl 105 scaled toons have way more stats than a lvl 115 toon. It needs to be toned down and fix asap before going live.
    - Base stats of creepside needs scaling: Mastery, Finesse, Critical Defence, Block, Parry, Evade, Armor, Mitigations, Resistance and BattleField Promotion buffs are not scaled at all. It should scale and be the same as on live more or less.
    - Corruptions needs to be nerfed slightly (like -2k of current?) to compensate above change. For example 6 mits should make u reach close to cap or around the same in live.
    - Outpost mastery bonus is not scaled. However, It should be removed completely and change with +% Renown bonus if possible. Creeps need higher base mastery as well to compensate this. Base mastery without any outposts is too low and creating unbalances.
    - Freep base finesse that you get from armor is really low. Freeps should at least get let's say %20 base finesse, same as creeps.

    Class specific things that certainly needs to be done for next beta:

    - Spider toxin and other power draining skills are absurdly high atm. It removes all power of a freep in about 5 ticks on average and it crits like 2k+ power . It should be nerfed %50 or more even. If nothing is done, spiders will ruin Ettenmoors with 1 skill... It would be fine even removing this skill tbh as it's really stupid mechanic to end fights because of just 1 skill is applied...
    - Warleader banner mitigation debuff is still 2k I think? Not scaled at all, it's a bug.

    General things that should be done in my opinion:

    - Crit magnitude should be removed from the crit corruptions as suggested above. This will solve the crit magnitude RNG dependancy of the creepside dps.
    - Freepside crit magnitude needs a nerf as well if we are doing the above change. It has gone way overboard with the imbued LI's. Maybe add more % crit defence that goes over cap as a base passive or add it to audacity/battefield promotion?
    - Creepside incoming damage reduction in audacity should go to %50 percent. Freepside should also get audacity as a passive like in creepside, bartered with commendations. If not, then next Lvl 115 PvMP armor should have audacity and a decent incoming damage reduction closer to creepside. This will solve the high dps and short fights problem of the Ettenmoors. It would also be nice that new lvl 115 PvMP audacity have more built in physical and tactical mits and more crit defence, so that freeps will have more slots to use on other stuff.
    - Fix partials... It's been asked too many times... Same skill when partialed hits 1k, when critted hits 30k... This absurd gap causing unbalanced fights between the same fights. Either remove this change or make finesse reduce the partial chance and have partial hits still being able to crit and generate crit event responses. Introduce partial resistance as well.
    - Outgoing Healing needs to be tied down to mastery. Currently mastery has still little effect on healing. It should be more effective so healers needs to carefully decide between survivability or more outgoing healing.

    Class Specific things that should be done in my opinion:

    - Defiler heals needed a buff but they are really strong now. 20k+ HPS parses. HoT's needs to be nerfed but can keep the burst healing as it is. And also , single target in combat rez for Defilers please, similar to minstrels.
    - Minstrel healing needed a nerf so it seems fine as it is.
    - RK healing could use a buff/scaling.
    - Loremaster Water Lore seems not scaled at all from what I've seen. 1-1.5k tooltip is really low considering the new morale pools. Since LM's losing out on throne waterlore set bonuses as well, water lore needs a buff and needs to be scaled. If nothing is done, loremasters will really struggle to survive in 1v1s.
    - Hunter and Burg dps seems scaled well and its too high. It might need nerf on specific skills like Barrage, Penshot on hunter and Cunning Attack nerf for Burglar.

    Should really test the new general changes above first on next beta and see how it goes, before doing any class specific nerfs like above as it's more complex. So, hope we at least see the changes that certainly needs fixing like above before going live. Overall this balancing business is really really a struggle with the whole stat changes. Hopefully the devs can overcome it.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spilo View Post
    I can understand that, but one bad turn does not justify another. I think the new Freep mit caps are a horrible, horrible decision, and both sides of the issue need to be resolved. In addition, Creep base mitigations are in the 20% and 5% area, which is significantly worse than what Freeps deals with.
    I think the base phys and tact mit should maybe in 25-35% range.

    However, they need to absolutely do something about scaling 105 freeps. It's impossible to balance PvMP right now when scaled 105 freeps can use the extra essence slots to cap all the important stats while 115 freeps cannot.

    Also, the freep crit bug still isn't fixed.
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  15. #15
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    Thanks for the excellent and detailed feedback.
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  16. #16
    Bestial Claws shouldn't bypass all evade block and parry ratings while being a spammable skill AND have a 93% crit chance when out of stealth. You should balance bestial claws out into the rest of the warg skills to make the class more rounded overall in their dps usage. Crit defence shouldn't be useless for freeps as well due to the bandaid fix of crit corruptions. You should be make crit defence traiting to be more useful against creeps for defensive classes being that we have to cherry pick our stats now.

  17. #17
    Since this appears to be the thread that caught a dev's attention (or at least the community manager's attention), I will quickly note some points in the OP that I disagree with, and hope they are taken into account.

    I entirely agree with your feedback on corruptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spilo View Post
    Blackarrow: Main hard hitting skills when they crit (Revenge, VT) are critting for a ton of damage. OVerall nerf needed, it seems.
    Other rotational skills should be buffed slightly to compensate (Screaming Shafts, Tangleshot, Headshot).

    Defiler: Heals seem to have been scaled too high. Heals shouldn't be boosted to counter damage, defense either need a buff or damage needs a nerf (when in the Ettenmoors). Heals need to be nerfed. Possibly the same on WLs, but I haven't tested.
    Heals need to be nerfed, if and only if freep damage gets reduced. Otherwise, defilers will just be useless. Defiler healing with the current state of freep DPS is in a fine spot.

    Reaver: Overall DPS seems pretty high. Impale crits are hitting for a little over double what they hit on live (with similiar mitigation levels). Impale is hitting far too hard, and it appears to be buggy. Its tooltip is just barely over devastating strike, but the initial hit of impale is hitting for almost double the same hit from Devastating Strike. Nerf Impale, and perhaps spread the damage to other skills.
    As I addressed in a different thread, Impale damage is fine, and devastates for 29k on light amours, and crits for 25k. This is approximately 33% of a freep's health and doesn't have to be nerfed.
    That said, I would much rather see Impale nerfed and see other skills get buffed. As it stands though, reaver is just a very bursty class, and Impale is in a fine spot. Impale does not need a nerf.

    Warg: Seems fine, damage still needs to be redistributed away from Bestial Claws and given to Swipe, Scratch and Snip, Rend, Pounce, and Eye Gouge.
    Warg damage is certainly not fine. I'm sorry if this sounds rude, but you seem biased towards the class you play. Warg damage is simply not fine, it's too high. Claws needs to be nerfed, and after that nerf the damage has to be redistributed between other skills. At the moment though, damage is too high, no way around it.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Thanks for the excellent and detailed feedback.
    Thank you!

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoPromethious View Post
    Bestial Claws shouldn't bypass all evade block and parry ratings while being a spammable skill AND have a 93% crit chance when out of stealth. You should balance bestial claws out into the rest of the warg skills to make the class more rounded overall in their dps usage. Crit defence shouldn't be useless for freeps as well due to the bandaid fix of crit corruptions. You should be make crit defence traiting to be more useful against creeps for defensive classes being that we have to cherry pick our stats now.
    Bestial Claws crit chance isn't the problem, nor is its BPE bypass. It's been that way for years. The % of damage it does is the problem. Simply redistributing the damage that I detailed about here: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...tealth-Classes, would be enough.

    Crit defense is very useful, in fact it's more important than it's ever been.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    Warg damage is certainly not fine. I'm sorry if this sounds rude, but you seem biased towards the class you play. Warg damage is simply not fine, it's too high. Claws needs to be nerfed, and after that nerf the damage has to be redistributed between other skills. At the moment though, damage is too high, no way around it.
    Crit mag seems to have been buffed as the corruptions themselves seem to be boosting crit mag proportionately more than on live. I'm also not biased, but you cannot run numbers on 105 Freeps for proper testing results. After having fought against non-scaled Freeps, I came away with the result that Warg damage will be fine when they nerf Crit mag from Corruptions and redistribute damage.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Spilo View Post
    Crit mag seems to have been buffed as the corruptions themselves seem to be boosting crit mag proportionately more than on live. I'm also not biased, but you cannot run numbers on 105 Freeps for proper testing results. After having fought against non-scaled Freeps, I came away with the result that Warg damage will be fine when they nerf Crit mag from Corruptions and redistribute damage.
    I have tested it against lvl 115 freeps and 105 freeps alike. Some freeps just happen to prefer being scaled up, and claim it's easier to cap mits this way. If that is true, wouldn't that mean that 105 freeps are tankier than 115 freeps, due to higher mits?
    Anyway, if some things get changed around, warg DPS might end up being fine. I don't disagree. That does not mean it's fine at the moment, however, and claiming that it is, is a fallacy.
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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    I have tested it against lvl 115 freeps and 105 freeps alike. Some freeps just happen to prefer being scaled up, and claim it's easier to cap mits this way. If that is true, wouldn't that mean that 105 freeps are tankier than 115 freeps, due to higher mits?
    Anyway, if some things get changed around, warg DPS might end up being fine. I don't disagree. That does not mean it's fine at the moment, however, and claiming that it is, is a fallacy.
    Whether it's true or not is irrelevant. FAct is reports of 15k Bestial Claws are because the opposition has no mits. In that regard, Warg's damage is wildly exaggerated. However, it's a fair point that I'm saying Warg damage is fine with some expectancy/hope of other changes. I'll reword it, thanks.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    Warg damage is certainly not fine. I'm sorry if this sounds rude, but you seem biased towards the class you play. Warg damage is simply not fine, it's too high. Claws needs to be nerfed, and after that nerf the damage has to be redistributed between other skills. At the moment though, damage is too high, no way around it.
    The other issue is how often a warg can get interrupts off. About every 1.5s.
    Irin r8 Hunter // Arngar r8 Burg // Akthuri r15 LM // Vishus r5 Captain // Curad r11 (active) Mini

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Irin19 View Post
    The other issue is how often a warg can get interrupts off. About every 1.5s.
    Obviously not 1.5 seconds, but I do agree that Eye Gouge needs an internal interrupt CD like Warden's Wall of Steel. 7 seconds would probably be fine.
    ~Rank 11 Loremaster, Arkenstone~

    ~Rank 13 Warg, Arkenstone~

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfdur View Post

    Anyways, to comment on a general overview about PvMP currently in beta, the overall dps and the heals for both sides are really high resulting in short burst fights ending in seconds. Damage is also really RNG depending on crits. The gap between normal/partial BPE'd hit and a critical hit is way too high atm.


    - Crit magnitude should be removed from the crit corruptions as suggested above. This will solve the crit magnitude RNG dependancy of the creepside dps.
    - Freepside crit magnitude needs a nerf as well if we are doing the above change. It has gone way overboard with the imbued LI's.
    - Fix partials... It's been asked too many times... Same skill when partialed hits 1k, when critted hits 30k... This absurd gap causing unbalanced fights between the same fights.
    Indeed as Wulfdur mentiones; Freepside also have some pretty insane crit magnitudes. Especially champion, who will have like ~200%+ crit magnitude in red with mordor (~150% from LI, 25% strike skills from tree, ~25%++ from crit rating). Champion will loose the Throne raid set with devestate magnitude. Resulting in critical hits being BIGGER than devestate hits. This is wrong. And will just keep on being a bigger issue each time new tiers of legacies is being added on Imbued LI's. Same goes for any other class with critical magnitude on them. Each class and LI really needs a ''roof'' as the max critical magnitude that is allowed on the imbued LI. Then buffing a secondary stat, most likely outgoing dmg to compensate. Best would ofc to keep critical magnitude low and uncritted hits high, as for less RNG in a good dps rotation. Crit magnitude from LI's should not go over 50% on any class imo, since you already got magnitude from critical rating going.


    A freep revamp of TOTALLY inflated critical magnitudes would be a really long and hard thing to finish, compared to creeps. But it is at some point really needed to be properly adressed by devs, both for pve instance balance, and for pvp.

    A creep revamp of removing total of 90% critical magnitude is really easy on the other hand. Remove them, and compensate with a mastery base stat buff and/or mastery corruptions. Done!


    Lastly the problem with partials as mentioned, will be way less of a problem if the critical magnitude stays low across the board, both for creeps and freeps. SHould maybe look something like this, partialled hit 0.5x, normal hit 1x, critted hit 2-2,5x, devestate hit 2,5-3x. Instead of what it is with champ Remorseless on live/BR, where partialled hit can be around 1-2k, and a crit 30k. Which is a huge difference.
    Thonras r13/r8 Blackarrow - Erenthenn r11/r7 Hunter- Seodric r11/r5 Burglar - Nomno r8 Warg - Grusnash r8 Reaver - Durumdor r7 Runekeeper - Flemendor r7 Champion - Carranham r6 Captain
    Challenger and Original Challenger of Gothmog - Evernight/Laurelin

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Thanks for the excellent and detailed feedback.
    @Cordovan, Maybe this is a good time to forward this info to Vastin or whoever is working on ettens balance atm? Before Mordor hits live?
    Thonras r13/r8 Blackarrow - Erenthenn r11/r7 Hunter- Seodric r11/r5 Burglar - Nomno r8 Warg - Grusnash r8 Reaver - Durumdor r7 Runekeeper - Flemendor r7 Champion - Carranham r6 Captain
    Challenger and Original Challenger of Gothmog - Evernight/Laurelin

 

 

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