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  1. #1
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    High Elves' starting zone

    They sayed that it was an instanced zone so not in the existing map. Here are which are for me the possible instanced places for Calaquendi:

    - Valinor
    - Grey Havens / Lindon
    - Maybe some cities of the ancient West Beleriand? I hope the secret city of Gondolin

    All of these zones obviously set in the Second Age.

  2. #2
    My guess is 2nd Age Eregion. This would tie the high elves to the ring story.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snop27ilRitorno View Post
    They sayed that it was an instanced zone so not in the existing map.
    All of the current starting areas are instanced, and also in the existing maps. I don't see why that would change. I could be wrong, of course.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snop27ilRitorno View Post
    They sayed that it was an instanced zone so not in the existing map. Here are which are for me the possible instanced places for Calaquendi:

    - Valinor
    - Grey Havens / Lindon
    - Maybe some cities of the ancient West Beleriand? I hope the secret city of Gondolin

    All of these zones obviously set in the Second Age.
    It makes zero sense for Gondolin,or Nargothrond or Doriath or Hithlum. Beleriand was almost completely destroyed and these ruins now lie deep beneath the Belegaer , great sea. These events happened more than 6500 years+

    Valinor, perhaps, but doubtful. A little chance happening.

    The starting area ( instance) shall be within Middle-Earth.

    "Somewhere far beyond" in Lindon or even Eregion.

    Lindon was a Elven Kingdom founded by Gil-galad at the beginning of the Second Age. It was the longest-standing Eldarin Kingdom in the history of Middle-earth, and the mightiest throughout the Second Age

    Tolkien stated that Lindon was Elven country "where no Man dwells". It was the last realm that was fair and free ~ A perfect starting zone of High elves. People will assume The Gray heavens , but devs might release something completely unique in Lindon as well.

    Eregion, also known as Hollin, was a realm of the Ñoldorin elves during the Second Age.

    These 2 regions are the most logical.
    Last edited by Ninky; Jun 25 2017 at 02:40 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninky View Post
    "Somewhere far beyond" in Lindon or even Eregion.

    Lindon was a Elven Kingdom founded by Gil-galad at the beginning of the Second Age. It was the longest-standing Eldarin Kingdom in the history of Middle-earth, and the mightiest throughout the Second Age

    Tolkien stated that Lindon was Elven country "where no Man dwells". It was the last realm that was fair and free ~ A perfect starting zone of High elves. People will assume The Gray heavens , but devs might release something completely unique in Lindon as well.

    Eregion, also known as Hollin, was a realm of the Ñoldorin elves during the Second Age.

    These 2 regions are the most logical.
    Don't forget Rivendell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Don't forget Rivendell.
    Loth Lorien would work better by lore, but new players more familiar with the Hobbit than LOTR would be less surprised by Rivendell.

    Valinor is just asking for yet another lawsuit by the Tolkien Estate.

    Eregion might work: the landscape and foundations are there, you would still need to repair any [current] ruins that would be "in play". Knowing SSG/Turbine, I'd expect plenty of bugs that would put newbies into "the red zone" and be constantly ignored for fear of allowing somebody to mine Eregion under level 20. This would also be a problem with Loth Lorien (but not Rivendell).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Don't forget Rivendell.
    Imladris is too obvious to happen. Too common. It's not happening

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninky View Post
    It makes zero sense for Gondolin,or Nargothrond or Doriath or Hithlum. Beleriand was almost completely destroyed and these ruins now lie deep beneath the Belegaer , great sea. These events happened more than 6500 years+
    Mmh why zero sense? High Elves are the one that saw the trees of Valinor and there are Calaquendi that survived the War of Wrath so I think that a starting area in those zones could make sense

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by yawumpus View Post
    Loth Lorien would work better by lore, but new players more familiar with the Hobbit than LOTR would be less surprised by Rivendell.

    Valinor is just asking for yet another lawsuit by the Tolkien Estate.

    Eregion might work: the landscape and foundations are there, you would still need to repair any [current] ruins that would be "in play". Knowing SSG/Turbine, I'd expect plenty of bugs that would put newbies into "the red zone" and be constantly ignored for fear of allowing somebody to mine Eregion under level 20. This would also be a problem with Loth Lorien (but not Rivendell).
    No, Lothlorien would *not* be a better place for High Elves to start. That place was mostly Silvan Elves and some Sindar. Rivendell had a whole bunch of High Elves (Gildor Inglorion said he had kin there).

    As for Eregion - LOL, no. You can't seriously talk about 'repair' of a place that'd lain in ruins for thousands years after having been destroyed by Sauron's army. Lore-wise it's basically a straight up choice between Lindon (the Grey Havens lincluded) and Rivendell.
    Last edited by Radhruin_EU; Jun 25 2017 at 10:18 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninky View Post
    It makes zero sense for Gondolin,or Nargothrond or Doriath or Hithlum. Beleriand was almost completely destroyed and these ruins now lie deep beneath the Belegaer , great sea. These events happened more than 6500 years+
    Ok sorry now I understand your comment, I wrote that those places were set in second age but obviously in SA beleriand is under the sea. So if may can be possible a starting zone in West Beleriand it would be set in the First Age. Why not intro can't be before LotR events, also in Dwarves intro we can se Thorin still alive and also in Elves intro happen past events.
    I think that a city of West Beleriand could be as possible as Valinor, but maybe I'm mistaking

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snop27ilRitorno View Post
    Ok sorry now I understand your comment, I wrote that those places were set in second age but obviously in SA beleriand is under the sea. So if may can be possible a starting zone in West Beleriand it would be set in the First Age. Why not intro can't be before LotR events, also in Dwarves intro we can se Thorin still alive and also in Elves intro happen past events.
    I think that a city of West Beleriand could be as possible as Valinor, but maybe I'm mistaking
    But most of those places are not within the current license which only covers the Lord of the Rings & the Hobbit books which JRRT sold during his lifetime. So the Beleriand stuff and much of first age is all out because that is Silmarillion for which rights lie with the Tolkien Estate and are zealously guarded. The Intro could be in past but will be within bounds of LOTR/Hobbit books so likely to be somewhere within Middle Earth as of third age even if it takes place earlier - and that would need to be done with care so as to only take from the appendices of LOTR.
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  12. #12
    possible: Rivendell(Eregion refugees), Lorien(Galadriel led Eregion elves through Moria to Lorien), Lindon

    most likely: Lindon - easy to connect to Ered Luin. Completed the starting instance, get a quest that leads you to Ered Luin/Celondim. Maybe something like: There seems to be trouble with the wood shippings for the Havens. Go to Celondim and investigate it.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    No, Lothlorien would *not* be a better place for High Elves to start. That place was mostly Silvan Elves and some Sindar. Rivendell had a whole bunch of High Elves (Gildor Inglorion said he had kin there).

    As for Eregion - LOL, no. You can't seriously talk about 'repair' of a place that'd lain in ruins for thousands years after having been destroyed by Sauron's army. Lore-wise it's basically a straight up choice between Lindon (the Grey Havens lincluded) and Rivendell.
    As Ninky said: "Eregion, also known as Hollin, was a realm of the Ñoldorin elves during the Second Age."

    So, I think, now that they've put a Dagorlad Second Age flashback instance in the Wastes, it would make perfect sense to actually get to see what Eregion was like -before it was ruined: drawing solely on what we're told about it in the pages of LOTR. Can't use "On the Rings of Power and the Third Age" from the Sil due to obvious reasons. But when Elrond talks about the ring-forging and so-on... there's room to play with there. How cool would it be to have to flee from Second-Age Sauron as a High Elf and escape Eregion's downfall? It would make Skorgrim in Edhelion look like child's play- LOL

    And it would be fairly plausible to do it. They got away with Narmelleth and Antheron out in Eregion in Volume I. And yes- they'd have to re-imagine the "ruins" of Mirobel and Tham Mirdain as a fully-constructed city during a sacking in order for it to work.

    I'd love the Mithlond / Tower Hills area or part of Lindon as well- if not Eregion.

    Rivendell... I hope not. We've seen plenty of that already in-game. These new High Elves, in my opinion, warrant as much new starter content as the Beorning did. Frodo's mentioning of the High Elves coming from their homes beyond the Tower Hills makes that area just as much fair game

    The devs did give us a clue somewhere in the livestream. When they were talking about High Elves, to paraphrase, they said that no other race may go to the place where they want High Elves to begin in the game- and hence why its instanced and not in the game-world. I seem to recall hobbits going to Mithlond and every race, one way or another, showing-up in Rivendell... leaving-open more fascinating possibilities. Western Lindon- no one really went there other than Elves. Second Age Eregion- no living Dwarf would've been yet born to fight alongside their kinsmen by Khazad-dum- and Numenor had not yet intervened- so that conflict was pretty much Elves only (and Second Age Dwarves who would die-off long before the current-era Dwarves were born). We'll find out whenever they release the High Elf in a beta-build

    Edit: OH! Another possibility! What if... the High Elf starter area is Dagorlad during the War of the Last Alliance? Or Siege-lines in front of Barad-dur, waiting for Sauron to come-out and fight to the death with Gil-galad and Elendil? That, ironically, would make the most sense for the Mordor expansion.
    Last edited by Phantion; Jun 25 2017 at 04:55 PM.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantion View Post
    As Ninky said: "Eregion, also known as Hollin, was a realm of the Ñoldorin elves during the Second Age."
    So what? That was then, this is now. The surviving Elves of Eregion mostly ended up in either Lindon or Imladris, or left Middle-earth entirely.

    So, I think, now that they've put a Dagorlad Second Age flashback instance in the Wastes, it would make perfect sense to actually get to see what Eregion was like -before it was ruined: drawing solely on what we're told about it in the pages of LOTR. Can't use "On the Rings of Power and the Third Age" from the Sil due to obvious reasons. But when Elrond talks about the ring-forging and so-on... there's room to play with there. How cool would it be to have to flee from Second-Age Sauron as a High Elf and escape Eregion's downfall? It would make Skorgrim in Edhelion look like child's play- LOL
    Not really, our characters surely aren't meant to be that old. Eregion was destroyed some 4782 years before the War of the Ring, that's a long time even for an Elf.

    Rivendell... I hope not. We've seen plenty of that already in-game.
    It could be a past version. Things could easily be different - the story matters more than the location. One set of starter content is much like another anyway, you're not going to be wherever it is for very long.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    So what? That was then, this is now. The surviving Elves of Eregion mostly ended up in either Lindon or Imladris, or left Middle-earth entirely.
    The current starting areas for dwarves and elves are more "then" than "now".
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post


    Not really, our characters surely aren't meant to be that old. Eregion was destroyed some 4782 years before the War of the Ring, that's a long time even for an Elf.
    Nothing is a long time for an elf, they literally never die. There are plenty of elves in Middle Earth that are far older than even that.

  17. #17
    And the current High Elf description on Bullroarer, though they are not yet available for access, you may read the description in the character-creation screen, and it states:

    "High Elves, who have beheld the beauty of Valinor, possess grace and strength beyond even their woodland kin. Those few who remain yearn to see that Middle-earth is safe to bequeath to Men before they depart for the Undying Lands."

    This is as of Beta 1. I recommend that they change it to "whose ancestors have beheld the beauty of Valinor..." if they want to be true to what they said in past interviews and live-streams. But remember how ambiguous the High Elves are in Tolkien. Gildor is said to be "of the House of Finrod," and his name, Inglorion, dates back to when Finrod was once known as Inglor, making Gildor the "son of Inglor / Finrod," which presents yet another anachronism due to the published "Silmarillion"'s take on Finrod as single- no children. So its a complete mystery as to how Gildor connects with Finrod- and when he uses the term, as an identifier, "Exiles," does he mean that he's a descendant-of and, therefore, born -in- Exile, or is he an -actual- Exile who -actually- rebelled with Feanor? The text doesn't really make any of that clear. We are told of the encounter through Frodo's words- and so Frodo certainly doesn't know. Gildor wasn't too keen on giving-away too much information- suspecting, but not fully knowing, his greater purpose in it all.

    So the text of LOTR- and I mean, specifically, LOTR, none of Tolkien's other works that are out of the scope of the license to my very limited understanding of it as a player, pretty much... makes High Elves and their age very ambiguous and uncertain. We know that Lord Elrond seems young and old at once to Frodo's eyes- but we don't know, we're not given a clue, that Elrond's parents had fled, that Elrond was raised by Maglor and Maedhros and then restored, etc. etc. etc. He might be referred to as a son of Earendil somewhere- but I can't remember if there's a specific reference to that or not in the text itself.

    So I would actually view Second Age stuff as a fair compromise. They're not -7,000- (or older) years old, they didn't personally cross the Ice or sail across the sea in stolen, blood-bought ships, but nor are they young spring chickens either. Actually, we're only given a glimpse currently on Bullroarer of -1- male and -1- female High Elven model- and they do, indeed, have that contrast as Frodo saw it in Elrond. Their faces look... older, more mature, though still youthful- older compared to the current Elves in-game. Really quite well-done visually in my opinion. I've yet to see more facial options or hair styles in a later build. For now, access to all of that is blocked.

    Anyways, here's a frame of reference. I'd want the implication that they had lived in Valinor... altered for obvious reasons. Current in-game Elves are -hundreds- of years old. The original start-intro in Edhelion right before and during its sacking takes place about five hundred years before the War of the Ring- when we're being trained by Talagan Silvertongue. Makes sense that High Elves would be 2,000-4,000 years old- making them much more storied and such than their Elven peers. Also, in Mordor, they have some Elves who are "enchanters" / "smiths" who are part of the new end-game system: and some of them claim to have fought in the War of the Last Alliance. Don't be surprised if High Elves are implied to be that old- especially when the current description, in my humble view (and I've loved imagining situations in Valinor and I'm saying this), goes a bit too far. Only thing I've got on that is that it would have a slim chance of working, as I've said elsewhere, if these High Elves are viewed to have... faded in grace and power- losing much of what they had once had- making Galadriel a notable exception to the norm thanks to her Ring Nenya. But still- I think the above quoted text... might take it a bit too far. I'd prefer it left as ambiguous as to how old these High Elves are.

    So, to be clear, I'm not... very comfortable with that first clause in the Elf verse. I'd like to see a change. Above, I was merely fully exploring the topic as much as I could here.
    Last edited by Phantion; Jun 25 2017 at 11:37 PM.
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  18. #18
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    If you are dealing with Elves who beheld The Trees then against both seen and unseen they have great powers. Think Glorfindel in the books. Basically immune to the fear effects of Nazgul and therefore probably not subject to Dread. Calaquendi means, for all practical purposes, Noldor.

    Ignorning why they start at 1st level the only plausible places to find them in 3018 are:
    Lindon
    Imladris
    Wandering Companies with the latter being less likely.

    If we go back to SA1200 then
    Eregion
    Imladris doesa not yet exist
    Lindon but Lindon covers a much larger area, plausibly the area that subsequently beocmes the Arthedain part of the Lost Realm of Arnor. Part of the motivation for Sauron in the Ware of the Elves and Sauron is the growing and spreading influence of Gil-Galad

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    Lindon but no larger than between the Sea and Ered Luin
    Imladris
    Possible some dwelling in Arnor or Gondor as semi permanent residents
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietlbomb View Post
    The current starting areas for dwarves and elves are more "then" than "now".
    That hardly compares with the span of nearly five thousand years that had passed since Eregion had been destroyed.


    Quote Originally Posted by PrinceOfVagabonds
    Nothing is a long time for an elf, they literally never die. There are plenty of elves in Middle Earth that are far older than even that.
    I didn't mean physically but mentally, in terms of their subjective experience and the ;weariness of the world' that started to come over them the longer they lived in Middle-earth. Like Galadriel for example, she was physically ageless but there was something about the look in her eyes that hinted at just how long she'd been around - that's mentioned in the book:

    "...no sign of age was upon them, unless it were in the depths of their eyes;
    for these were keen as lances in the starlight, and yet profound, the wells of deep
    memory."

    FOTR, 'The Mirror of Galadriel'

    So no, it's not true to say that the passage of time had no meaning for them or effect on them. More to the point, it'd be the younger, keener Elves who'd want to go off to Mordor to fight the bad guys (just like Elladan and Elrohir do), whereas the older and wiser ones wouldn't. As far as the game goes, playable Elves have always been supposed to be youngsters by Elvish standards, not veterans of any of the previous wars.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    No, Lothlorien would *not* be a better place for High Elves to start. That place was mostly Silvan Elves and some Sindar. Rivendell had a whole bunch of High Elves (Gildor Inglorion said he had kin there).

    As for Eregion - LOL, no. You can't seriously talk about 'repair' of a place that'd lain in ruins for thousands years after having been destroyed by Sauron's army. Lore-wise it's basically a straight up choice between Lindon (the Grey Havens lincluded) and Rivendell.
    As far as I could tell, the instances in Ered Luin are decades before the game starts. Being in an instance thousands of years before the game wouldn't phase one of the first born (especially one born before Fëanor left Valinor to recover the Silmarils).

    Quote Originally Posted by PrinceOfVagabonds View Post
    Nothing is a long time for an elf, they literally never die. There are plenty of elves in Middle Earth that are far older than even that.
    Legolas calls Fangorn old (the forest, although the ent might qualify as well). "Fangorn is old, old even as the Elves would reckon it."
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by yawumpus View Post
    As far as I could tell, the instances in Ered Luin are decades before the game starts. Being in an instance thousands of years before the game wouldn't phase one of the first born (especially one born before Fëanor left Valinor to recover the Silmarils).
    It's not a matter of it bothering anyone, it's the simply *vast* difference in age and experience that would imply between High Elves and the common Elves we already have and I can't see how that would make any sense at all. As for original High Elves, you must be joking, there could hardly be more obvious NPCs in the whole damn game.

    Basically there's no way that Elves who had been around that long would be running about fighting the bad guys like that. We don't see Glorfindel and the rest doing that, do we? But we do see Elladan and Elrohir getting involved and hey, guess what, they're quite young for Elves (born in the Third Age).

  22. #22
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    I just can't fathom an elf that is hundreds of years old being Level 1 (or even Level 10).

    I certainly hope the new High Elves are not that old.


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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    That hardly compares with the span of nearly five thousand years that had passed since Eregion had been destroyed.
    So what? The events in Eregion in the 2nd Age are directly involved with the story of The Lord of the Rings, and any high elf that appears in the game will have lived in Middle Earth for thousands of years before even those events.
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  24. #24
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    Hmm, I'm gonna go out on a limb here. They could definitely make a story of sorts in the starter area that makes players feel it could be in a different time frame. Have the starter area of Edhellond of West Gondor. When you complete and load into the game, You find yourself on the docks of Celondim.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    No, Lothlorien would *not* be a better place for High Elves to start. That place was mostly Silvan Elves and some Sindar. Rivendell had a whole bunch of High Elves (Gildor Inglorion said he had kin there).
    Agreed.

    As for Eregion - LOL, no. You can't seriously talk about 'repair' of a place that'd lain in ruins for thousands years after having been destroyed by Sauron's army. Lore-wise it's basically a straight up choice between Lindon (the Grey Havens lincluded) and Rivendell.
    True for the story, but...

    SSG world builder dev "repairing" some bit of Eregion to create an instanced High Elf starting zone similar to Beorning starting zone would be reasonable. I kinda think this would be really stretching the license limitations.

    Simplest implementation would be an instanced copy of (part of) Imladris.
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