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  1. #76

    Cool

    Setting aside the instances that we all love, which should have worthwhile loot at T1, followed by better loot at T2.


    Dailies = Fine.

    Flower Picking as a pre-req for Dailies = Bad joke.


    Not only is it needless, but people give up on dailies a lot quicker than they otherwise would. I would happily go ToT or Skoi, I just cant be arsed with the inane flower picked beforehand. The instances are not worth running without it. If you want people on your landscape improve the rewards from RTs, or landscape dailies.

    Whichever muppet came up with that nonsense...
    Pavlosh - Pavamir - Pavorin | Raging Raiders | Arkenstone
    Original Challenger of Gothmog

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    New Orleans, LA
    Posts
    495
    Quote Originally Posted by Namma View Post
    You do see the silliness in that, no? Most paths in game are a choice. If a player chooses to go after certain paths/items it's on them.



    Perhaps, but if I made that choice I wouldn't come crying and whining into the forums about it all, boo-hoo.

    Interesting how so many grown people seem to think they are the only ones allowed to have an opinion and express it. Juvenile.

    I never said you weren't allowed to express your opinion, I merely exercised my right to disagree with it. Appreciate you referring to me as child-like, though; name-calling is always helpful and constructive.

    The fact that a player chooses to go down a certain path does not mean that player should expect to grind on for weeks or months on end to achieve that goal. It is my opinion that there are too many paths in this game that force players to grind, and that the content of those grinds gets boring in a hurry.
    "Not all those who wander are lost." -Tolkien
    "No matter where you go, there you are." -Confucius

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    2,979
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    There has to be some sort of time sink, so grind is unavoidable if they are to keep interest for some players.
    Yes, some grind is unavoidable. However, based on the progression of the last few updates, here is what I fully expect when Mordor goes live:

    - all new essence armor and jewelry, all of which is gated behind rep and/or deed completion. If there is a raid, there would be an upgraded gear set using barter items available from the raid which only drop semi-reliably on T2 (this last part would be fine with me).
    - Tier 9 essences which will once again require Solvents to upgrade (I could see two Solvents per upgrade, or a new kind of Solvent which is harder to get outside of the store). Once most players have Supreme T9 essences, expect a new "plus" tier of essences just like the Ithilien-Infused/Ithilien-Tempered, thus meaning players who wish to maximize their characters need to rework most or all of their essences. I also expect FI Lost Coins to still be used for the T9 essence recipes, but I would not be surprised to see the cost go up.
    - 9 new tiers of LI legacies and 5-6 new tiers of DPS/passive stats. These would require all-new Scolls of Empowerment and Star-Lit Crystals. Rumor has it that FI's will give a player, at most, 3 SOE's per day per character.
    - Multiple new rep factions which once again require Kindred to access certain gear. I would expect another situation like the Weaponsmiths/Amorers/Provisioners of the Host of the West - ie, no rep through questing, only through barter turn-in. I would also not be surprised to see other important gear gated behind becoming Celebrated with the Weaponsmiths/Armorers/Provisioners. Also expect another price increase in rep accelerators.

    The above is based solely on prior experience, and I would also expect some new grind mechanic to be introduced, as has happened in the last few updates.

    EDIT: and flowers. Can't believe I forgot those. Expect to pick a lot of all new flowers. Also expect some very important upgrade to be gated behind an RNG spin, to which a "ticket" must be acquired via a combination of grind and RNG spins.

    EDIT 2: and of course there will be shortcuts available in the store!
    Last edited by Solien; Jun 21 2017 at 07:26 PM.
    solien
    armor-plated since SoA alpha 3
    arkenstone: roxxi manor

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Flooz View Post
    Hi all,

    With the first taste of Mordor anticipated on Bullroarer this week I note yet again a large number of pleas that the developers avoid "more grind". So what do you suggest the end-game content should be?

    Specifically the content must be sufficient to keep everyone interested and playing the game for the foreseeable future. It must also appeal to the general player, so cannot concentrate on PvMP for example (please don't fill this thread with saying how good PvMP is - that's not the subject).

    If your answer is, for example, "Interesting repeatable quests" that is probably exactly what the Devs think some of the current content is which lots of players call grind. You'll have to be more specific about what is interesting and bear in mind your definition could be significantly different to that of others, therefore wouldn't meet the criteria that it appeals to the general player.

    Maybe some examples from similar MMOs whose content is not considered to be grind - are there any?
    Picking flowers, buying lock picks and having to beg people to do the pre-reqs to open basic instances (Tot/Skr) is not just a grind, it's sadism intentionally designed to waste our time in the hope we don't notice the lack of new content. It's Radiance Gear made even more annoying.

    There's a difference between grinding Hall of Crafting enough to win a roll on the Anvil and picking thousands of flowers. If SSG can't figure out the difference, this game will die.

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wales, United Kingdom
    Posts
    7,162
    Quote Originally Posted by Solien View Post
    Yes, some grind is unavoidable. However, based on the progression of the last few updates, here is what I fully expect when Mordor goes live:

    - all new essence armor and jewelry, all of which is gated behind rep and/or deed completion. If there is a raid, there would be an upgraded gear set using barter items available from the raid which only drop semi-reliably on T2 (this last part would be fine with me).
    - Tier 9 essences which will once again require Solvents to upgrade (I could see two Solvents per upgrade, or a new kind of Solvent which is harder to get outside of the store). Once most players have Supreme T9 essences, expect a new "plus" tier of essences just like the Ithilien-Infused/Ithilien-Tempered, thus meaning players who wish to maximize their characters need to rework most or all of their essences. I also expect FI Lost Coins to still be used for the T9 essence recipes, but I would not be surprised to see the cost go up.
    - 9 new tiers of LI legacies and 5-6 new tiers of DPS/passive stats. These would require all-new Scolls of Empowerment and Star-Lit Crystals. Rumor has it that FI's will give a player, at most, 3 SOE's per day per character.
    - Multiple new rep factions which once again require Kindred to access certain gear. I would expect another situation like the Weaponsmiths/Amorers/Provisioners of the Host of the West - ie, no rep through questing, only through barter turn-in. I would also not be surprised to see other important gear gated behind becoming Celebrated with the Weaponsmiths/Armorers/Provisioners. Also expect another price increase in rep accelerators.

    The above is based solely on prior experience, and I would also expect some new grind mechanic to be introduced, as has happened in the last few updates.

    EDIT: and flowers. Can't believe I forgot those. Expect to pick a lot of all new flowers. Also expect some very important upgrade to be gated behind an RNG spin, to which a "ticket" must be acquired via a combination of grind and RNG spins.

    EDIT 2: and of course there will be shortcuts available in the store!
    Stop it! That there is like something out of a nightmare lol. It's actually very sad that past update experience means all of that - is actually possible. I just really hope we don't get it. That will be lights out time for me for sure.
    Monkeys are superior to man in this . . . . When a monkey looks in a mirror, he sees a monkey.
    Edited, because some folk just can't do wordplay.

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    2,979
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Stop it! That there is like something out of a nightmare lol. It's actually very sad that past update experience means all of that - is actually possible. I just really hope we don't get it. That will be lights out time for me for sure.
    Well, I just saw a post with the major takeaways from Dadi's interview with Cordovan, and apparently they are NOT expanding the flower system into Moria. Obviously it doesn't really work lore-wise, and hopefully the message was received that this was not, overall, a good system.

    As to the rest of it...yeah, I wish I could say I was being hyperbolic to make a point, but those are, sadly, realistic possibilities.
    solien
    armor-plated since SoA alpha 3
    arkenstone: roxxi manor

  7. #82
    Devs can we have PvP armour specific to the moors? Some of just want to pvp on freep and earn ettens related armour which will do the job for PvP. Not all of us have the time or inclination to grind, nor find it fun, so if PvP is our fun, give it to us please. (Playes notice I said some of us and not all)

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,588
    For essences, as crafting as now with solvents but with a crit chance.
    normal way: purple+recipe+ingredients+solv ent=blue->blue+recipe+ingredients+solve nt=golden
    crit way: purple+recipe+ingredients+solv ent=golden
    with the normal crafting chance and improving the chance with the normal crititems.
    or essences without crafting: t1 chest-purple essences; t2 chest-blue ones, t2c chest-golden essences or even better items with which you can bard the essences so you can choose which you want.
    1.5 items per person in the chest(e.g. 6men= 9 items) and 3 items spread like explained one for purple in t1 and so on.

  9. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Flooz View Post
    Hi all,

    With the first taste of Mordor anticipated on Bullroarer this week I note yet again a large number of pleas that the developers avoid "more grind". So what do you suggest the end-game content should be?

    Specifically the content must be sufficient to keep everyone interested and playing the game for the foreseeable future. It must also appeal to the general player, so cannot concentrate on PvMP for example (please don't fill this thread with saying how good PvMP is - that's not the subject).

    If your answer is, for example, "Interesting repeatable quests" that is probably exactly what the Devs think some of the current content is which lots of players call grind. You'll have to be more specific about what is interesting and bear in mind your definition could be significantly different to that of others, therefore wouldn't meet the criteria that it appeals to the general player.

    Maybe some examples from similar MMOs whose content is not considered to be grind - are there any?

    I just can't help but point to http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/gamification

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    SW, US
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by Joetzim View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it the nature of most MMO players to be competitive and to min/max their toon(s)? What's more, it's human nature to want to "keep up with the Jonses." If you're not as good as your neighbours, you fall out of their social class, you will be less, an outsider, who is looked down on. If you are wearing ghetto gear in an MMO, you'd better go anon or you will be excluded and considered a peasant.

    Of course, you can say you are not a multiplayer, you are just here to play this game as a RPG, so you don't dabble in grind. In this case, you have no right to form an opinion on the matter, judge those who grind, or put them down in any way. They are not your social class.
    :::claps slowly:::

    So hilarious.

    Class? What in Hades? Class?

    "If you are wearing ghetto gear in an MMO, you'd better go anon or you will be excluded and considered a peasant."

    hahahahaaha!

    You live on online worlds way too much. You consider them of some redeeming real life social value and it simply isn't true. Sometime in the future when you get bored of this "living in the game" remember - you can always walk away and go live a real life with people, food, air, sunshine, exercise and health.

    Oh my - and thanks for the belly laugh
    Irritating people? USE the Ignore feature under Community > Friends & Contacts > Edit Ignore List and ADD THEM there. Or, click this - EDIT IGNORE LIST. Btw, MMO never meant "all together now". It simply means a server capable of supporting simultaneous play of hundreds or even thousands of players. Anything else is false narrative.

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    SW, US
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by Ride_the_Train View Post
    So because you choose not to participate in the grind, the game doesn't have that much grind?

    If you're playing the game strictly for enjoyment, then you're only going to do the things that you enjoy. If advancing your character's equipment, performance, reputation, possessions, and general completion are not part of your enjoyment, then you're going to avoid the vast majority of the grind involved. Like your litter box cleaning analogy (and I can relate, believe me!), things you have to do even when you don't enjoy them, because they are a means to an end, seem like a grind. You've decided you don't want your house to smell like cat pee. So you clean the box, every day, over and over again.

    Let's say you made a similar decision about the game, like wanting your character to have the best possible armor you could get. You're going to grind picking flowers to exchange for armor pieces, or grind faction rep to allow you to buy armor pieces, or grind FI's to get tokens to barter for armor pieces...then you're going to grind to get essences to fill those armor pieces. For other players that place a priority on character equipment, performance and the like, you will grind. A lot. For all of them. For every character you play. You can certainly choose not to engage in game activities that involve grinding, as long as you don't want any of the rewards that the grinds will provide.
    You missed the analogy. Did you play many games in the "olden days"? I wasn't kidding about "Go kill 100 rats". It was a repeated task/quest just with different mobs. Over and over - go kill 100 [mob].

    So your entire trying to take apart my argument missed because you seem to have missed the beginning of what I was saying. Oh well. And no, I don't think having the best armor, weapon, whatever is going to make my life, gaming or otherwise, better. Not anymore. Maybe 17-18 years ago I felt that way, but I got over the "stardust" of gaming and use it as entertainment and amusement only.
    Irritating people? USE the Ignore feature under Community > Friends & Contacts > Edit Ignore List and ADD THEM there. Or, click this - EDIT IGNORE LIST. Btw, MMO never meant "all together now". It simply means a server capable of supporting simultaneous play of hundreds or even thousands of players. Anything else is false narrative.

 

 
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