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  1. #276
    Thank you, very helpful.

  2. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Theomur View Post
    I can get there by using only 2 crit rating essences, lemme show you my raw build, in terms of stats. These are my stats, without any food/scroll buff. Here's the tooltips of my entire gear, main highlights:
    • I get crit from my offhand
    • satisfied with 83k finesse
    • some crit stuff going on with my LI relics





    And then there are my Virtues and Stat tomes at the moment:



    So I emphasized offensive contributions here., plenty of fate (928) from both tomes and idealism virtue, which contribute a nice chunk of crit too.
    Nice one! I thank you!

  3. #278
    Where do the teal shoulders come from?
    Ahrondir

  4. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by dagorlad91806 View Post
    Where do the teal shoulders come from?
    Gorgoroth boxes, iirc.
    Weekend at Bill Ferny's - Arkenstone (formerly of Windfola)
    Nanci - 115 Captain / Hirandiel - 115 Hunter / Hilidimar - 112 Minstrel / Hildibjorg - 107 Guardian / Hervor - 109 Champion / Theshocker - 95 Runekeeper

  5. #280
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    Jul 2017
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    Greetings to all! Semi-experienced, lvl115 Raiding Blue Hunter over here. Just done gearing for Mordor and wanted to discuss about a few things puzzling me.

    - Are True Shot and Bodkin Arrows red traits any useful in current (and future) raids? I figured it wouldn't have any affect since Boss mitigations already hits zero from Champ and LM debuffs.

    - I've heard the rumours of +7.5% Devastate Mag. relic bonuses not stacking with each other. So the bonus might still be +7.5% devastate even if you have both relics equipped on 2 LI's. Is there any truth to this?

    - Can someone convince me (in detail) that QS is the go-to skill when in dire need of focus, instead of Swift Bow? I have estimated that Swift Bow adds 2.3 Focus on average, 1.8 for QS (when fully traited+legacy). Swift Bow takes 0.7 more seconds to induct, but the damage is also close to triple of QS.

    Happy huntings to all!

  6. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf2x View Post
    - Can someone convince me (in detail) that QS is the go-to skill when in dire need of focus, instead of Swift Bow? I have estimated that Swift Bow adds 2.3 Focus on average, 1.8 for QS (when fully traited+legacy). Swift Bow takes 0.7 more seconds to induct, but the damage is also close to triple of QS.
    • Swift bow can only be used once every 10 seconds
    • Swift bow does not only have a long induction, but also a long skill duration
    • Quick Shot provides more than 1.8 focus per QS if you have the trait + the crit chance legacy
    • Swift Bow does not nearly do as much damage as you probably think it does
    • Barbed Arrow does a LOT more damage than SB and should therefore be the skill you use when volley procs
    • But it all comes down to this: DPS means damage PER SECOND. So the speed at which you follow up on your big hitting skills is a crucial factor. Your biggest hitter (besides barbed) is Barrage 3. Quickshot as a focus builder allows you to follow up on your B3's with minimal delay. This is why it will be a LOT better for your DPS than SB
    • QS is not used for its damage contribution, but for its ability to enable you to keep using B3 as every other skill in situations of low focus.
    • SB and its focus generation can still be useful if you trait swift & true on your quickshots.
    • Don't get that SB damage legacy, you only have 7 legacy slots on your bow, others are more beneficial (induction bow damage will provide the same amount of dmg increase, but across the board of induction skills)
    Last edited by Theomur; Sep 14 2017 at 04:58 AM.

  7. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theomur View Post
    • Swift bow can only be used once every 10 seconds
    • Swift bow does not only have a long induction, but also a long skill duration
    • Quick Shot provides more than 1.8 focus per QS if you have the trait + the crit chance legacy
    • Swift Bow does not nearly do as much damage as you probably think it does
    • Barbed Arrow does a LOT more damage than SB and should therefore be the skill you use when volley procs
    • But it all comes down to this: DPS means damage PER SECOND. So the speed at which you follow up on your big hitting skills is a crucial factor. Your biggest hitter (besides barbed) is Barrage 3. Quickshot as a focus builder allows you to follow up on your B3's with minimal delay. This is why it will be a LOT better for your DPS than SB
    • QS is not used for its damage contribution, but for its ability to enable you to keep using B3 as every other skill in situations of low focus.
    • SB and its focus generation can still be useful if you trait swift & true on your quickshots.
    • Don't get that SB damage legacy, you only have 7 legacy slots on your bow, others are more beneficial (induction bow damage will provide the same amount of dmg increase, but across the board of induction skills)
    Thanks, I needed that

    Only part I'm not sure about is SB not dealing as much damage as I think it does. I did some testing on training dummy the other day and, my Swift Bow deals 150k damage on 2 crit+1 devastate(in total 3 hits), while QS hits 30-40k on crit/devastate. I'm not using the Swift Bow legacy. Is that not worth ~1 sec delay?
    115 Hunter, Beorning, RK

    105 Champ, Guardian, Minstrel, Cappy, LM, Warden, RK

  8. #283
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    After thinking about @Theomur 's opinions on QS-SB, I have made this flow chart representing a DPS rotation after Barrage has reached tier 3





    Thoughts?
    115 Hunter, Beorning, RK

    105 Champ, Guardian, Minstrel, Cappy, LM, Warden, RK

  9. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf2x View Post
    After thinking about @Theomur 's opinions on QS-SB, I have made this flow chart representing a DPS rotation after Barrage has reached tier 3
    ...
    Thoughts?
    I think you'd want to include blood arrow and heartseeker in there, depending on circumstances.

  10. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKenny View Post
    I think you'd want to include blood arrow and heartseeker in there, depending on circumstances.
    Ah sorry I should've made it clear; this is for Single target boss situations in Raids. So probably not much space for Blood arrow or HS
    115 Hunter, Beorning, RK

    105 Champ, Guardian, Minstrel, Cappy, LM, Warden, RK

  11. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf2x View Post
    Ah sorry I should've made it clear; this is for Single target boss situations in Raids. So probably not much space for Blood arrow or HS
    Blood arrow hits harder than pen shot, so should be used when not on CD over pen shot.
    Eredor-Champion, Ereworn-Minstrel, Ereshorn-Runekeeper, Eresworn-Hunter, Eremourn-Burglar, Erehorn-Captain, Erelorn-Warden, Eretorn-Lore-Master, Erescorn-Guardian... And Erecorn-Master Farmer

  12. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by dselden View Post
    Blood arrow hits harder than pen shot, so should be used when not on CD over pen shot.
    You mean with Exsanguinate? Which in that case it would delay Barrage t3 for one more second

    Blood Arrow and Pen Shot damage looks exactly the same to me on tooltip, and Pen shot has a mitigation debuff trait
    115 Hunter, Beorning, RK

    105 Champ, Guardian, Minstrel, Cappy, LM, Warden, RK

  13. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf2x View Post
    You mean with Exsanguinate? Which in that case it would delay Barrage t3 for one more second

    Blood Arrow and Pen Shot damage looks exactly the same to me on tooltip, and Pen shot has a mitigation debuff trait
    But Blood Arrow has a higher crit multiplier.
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    Rangers of Eriador (officer), ex-Snowbourn now Laurelin - A Noob for All Seasons

  14. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedfrith View Post
    But Blood Arrow has a higher crit multiplier.
    higher crit multiplier from?
    115 Hunter, Beorning, RK

    105 Champ, Guardian, Minstrel, Cappy, LM, Warden, RK

  15. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf2x View Post
    You mean with Exsanguinate? Which in that case it would delay Barrage t3 for one more second

    Blood Arrow and Pen Shot damage looks exactly the same to me on tooltip, and Pen shot has a mitigation debuff trait
    If it procs you can go Barrage3, Blood Arrow, Barrage3, Exsang, Barrage3.....

  16. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKenny View Post
    If it procs you can go Barrage3, Blood Arrow, Barrage3, Exsang, Barrage3.....
    Ah true, thanks for the info! I probably won't go for Exsang trait though
    115 Hunter, Beorning, RK

    105 Champ, Guardian, Minstrel, Cappy, LM, Warden, RK

  17. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf2x View Post
    Ah true, thanks for the info! I probably won't go for Exsang trait though
    Well you should. Stack your procs, mate, it'll save your focus and your DPS.

  18. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theomur View Post
    Well you should. Stack your procs, mate, it'll save your focus and your DPS.
    Hmm looks like I will have to sacrifice from DoT trait from blue
    115 Hunter, Beorning, RK

    105 Champ, Guardian, Minstrel, Cappy, LM, Warden, RK

  19. #294
    Just wondering if anyone has done any testing to evaluate the usefulness of the -evade chance legacy under the new stat caps. Perhaps the + focus is better at this point? Any info appreciated.

  20. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Baredur View Post
    Just wondering if anyone has done any testing to evaluate the usefulness of the -evade chance legacy under the new stat caps. Perhaps the + focus is better at this point? Any info appreciated.
    Had about 10% partial evade in Sword Hall T2 lvl115 with the legacy. Looking at the curve (https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Rat...ade.29_Ratings) , it means the legacy reduced over 3% partial evade, which is better than the 0.17 more focus per QS imo.

    Man cenuva métim' andúnë.

  21. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Farasilion View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Theomur View Post
    I can get there by using only 2 crit rating essences, lemme show you my raw build, in terms of stats. These are my stats, without any food/scroll buff. Here's the tooltips of my entire gear, main highlights:
    • I get crit from my offhand
    • satisfied with 83k finesse
    • some crit stuff going on with my LI relics


    And then there are my Virtues and Stat tomes at the moment:

    So I emphasized offensive contributions here., plenty of fate (928) from both tomes and idealism virtue, which contribute a nice chunk of crit too.
    Prolly want to change the LI titles to crit; 460 crit vs 500 PM, much better ratio than 2572 crit : 4264 PM on essences.

    15% dev mag not worth it imo unless you have capped mastery already in group:
    (0.6 + 0.3 * 3 + 0.1 * 4.15) / (0.6 + 0.3 * 3 + 0.1 * 4) = ~0.79% increase in DPS, but losing 2236 crit in total for it, meaning one more crit essence -> one less PM essence; one PM essence = ~1.6% tooltip dmg = ~3% increase in DPS.

    If you change both settings and LI titles, and swap out both crit essences for mastery, then the offhand from NCF (same agi/vit, 2640 crit, 2335PM; worse crit:PM ratio than essence but eh) will be better as it has more crit which will put you to slightly (256) under crit cap with Relentless, IDoME and agi food.


    PS: Not too sure about Rapid Fire over Bodkin (except when its facerolling Throne etc), since the normal wolves in Agarnaith has about 50% mits, then mobs in scaled instances usually have more...
    PPS: Your hnt isn't elf right? Was totally confused why I would have 232 crit more with exactly same stuff lol.
    Suppose posting in the last slot of the page isn't a very bright idea...



    Each gold ring is -1088 crit, not traiting Idealism atm so once change will have 920 more crit; only need 59417 crit unbuffed to cap it with agi food, IDoME and Relentness, so yeah well don't need any crit essence atm.
    Last edited by Farasilion; Sep 15 2017 at 05:33 AM.

    Man cenuva métim' andúnë.

  22. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Farasilion View Post
    Suppose posting in the last slot of the page isn't a very bright idea...



    Each gold ring is -1088 crit, not traiting Idealism atm so once change will have 920 more crit; only need 59417 crit unbuffed to cap it with agi food, IDoME and Relentness, so yeah well don't need any crit essence atm.

    Tbh i would say with the hs reset raid armour you do more dps and i would rather stack mastey instead of crit(you got over 40% crit chance anyway,if you crit is now 27 or 30%).

    HS reset:



    Normal:




    For LI i use everything the same,just on the non hs bow i got quick shot dmg instead of quick shot crit chance(i am not sure about it tho).


    My highest dps parses i did was like 92-95k over 2min on the galtrev dummies and in fights like dos mumak 80k over 2,5min.Silent street was like 70k on the ranged and 55k on the melee boss on challenge.
    Last edited by Kasius; Sep 15 2017 at 04:41 PM.
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  23. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasius View Post
    Tbh i would say with the hs reset raid armour you do more dps and i would rather stack mastey instead of crit(you got over 40% crit chance anyway,if you crit is now 27 or 30%).

    For LI i use everything the same,just on the non hs bow i got quick shot dmg instead of quick shot crit chance(i am not sure about it tho).
    Ja HS reset set is perfect for now, it's just a matter of how much shadow the new instances/raids will have.

    Did some math, ~1k crit vs ~1k PM is roughly the same, difference less than 0.1%;

    Quick Shot dmg gives ~10% more QS dps than Quick Shot Crit (while considering the extra focus, crit mag, pen shot mit bypass); suppose that should lead to more than 0.5% DPS increase so prolly worth switching to.

    Man cenuva métim' andúnë.

  24. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farasilion View Post
    ...Quick Shot dmg gives ~10% more QS dps than Quick Shot Crit (while considering the extra focus, crit mag, pen shot mit bypass); suppose that should lead to more than 0.5% DPS increase so prolly worth switching to.
    It seems it would be pretty difficult to quantify the increased chance of procs with QS crit. Intuitively it seems that QS damage is such a small component that I would prefer the increased crit chance over simply increasing damage.

  25. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by DKenny View Post
    It seems it would be pretty difficult to quantify the increased chance of procs with QS crit. Intuitively it seems that QS damage is such a small component that I would prefer the increased crit chance over simply increasing damage.
    Didn't want to bore everyone with the math, ah well.

    Left to right: with QS crit legacy only, with QS dmg only, pen shot.



    QS dmg legacy = 20.23% increase of QS tooltip dmg,
    Assume crit chance without QS crit leg is 40%, dev chance is 10%: QS dmg legacy = 20.23% * ( 50% + 40% * 300% + 10% * 400%) = 42.48% increase of QS DPS;

    QS crit legacy = 100% * (12.5% * (300% + 13.6% (2nd stat on legacy) - 100%) = 26.7% increase of QS DPS,
    12.5% more crit chance = 12.5% more chance for 1 more focus pip = 0.125 focus;

    Assume that:
    1. The 10% pen shot mit bypass is fully utilised;
    2. PS consumes 2.5 focus pips on average;

    0.125 focus pip = [22915 (PS) - 11120 (QS without dmg) * 90% (QS going through 10% more mits than PS)] / 2.5 * 0.125 = 645.35 tooltip damage, which equals to 12.25% of QS DPS (miltiplied by PS crit/dev chance/mag);
    {10.76% if PS is not benefitting from 10% extra mit penetration)

    Therefore
    QS dmg = 42.48%
    QS crit = 37.46% - 38.95%

    Anyways, actual difference is like 0.5% atm (though will go in favour of QS dmg with more LI ranks).

    Man cenuva métim' andúnë.

 

 
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