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  1. #1

    Scrap Paper (Possible Spoilers!)

    If you don't want possible spoilers about the scrap paper from the scavenger hunts, don't read on.


    While we are far from figuring much out about what exactly the Scrap Paper will be, I have been wondering, and I think I've figured something out.


    Each piece of paper offers a single digit, so far.


    The seven we have access to have written on them:


    .
    ,
    .
    5
    5
    8
    3

    Which brought me to the idea that there is something in game already which uses two .s, one comma, and numbers. The coordinate system! And, can you guess how many pages we'd need to get a coordinate? Ten!

    So, while we are still far from done, I think I might have figured something out. If I'm right we'll need to organize the numbers into coordinates, and figure out which map they correspond to, if it isn't the Shire.

    Now, before the entirety of the puzzle is available to us, we can just make assumptions. Here is what we will likely need if it is a coordinate and each scrap paper is a single digit in that coordinate:

    xx.x N, y.y E
    xx.x N, y.y W
    xx.x S, y.y E
    xx.x S, y.y W

    x.x N, yy.y E
    x.x N, yy.y W
    x.x S, yy.y E
    x.x S, yy.y W

    Now, given the order which the numbers have been presented, we can assume they are given in the order that they would be in the coordinate, so here are the possible coordinates following those assumptions:

    5.5 N, 83.y W - This can only correspond to an unreachable area in Forochel.

    5.5 S, 83.y E/W - No map corresponds to these two possibilities.

    55.8 N, 3.y E/W - No map corresponds to these two possibilities.

    55.8 S, 3.y W - A waterfall in North Ithilien.

    So, there you have it. One coordinate if the above method is true. There is a good chance that whatever this coordinate leads us to won't even be put in game until the final week, so the coordinate could be correct. My guess is a barterer for the scrap papers.

    If this is a coordinate, there is also the possibility that a page could have two digits (or three, or two pages could have two each) to make a larger number. There is also the possibility that the papers are in a random order, or even a pattern, so we would have to reorder the coordinate after all the pages are discovered. I doubt this, because if you organize your bag, the pages fall in order that they were received. I feel pretty good about assuming that the numbers are in the proper order.
    Last edited by Rufkin; May 25 2017 at 02:11 AM. Reason: Updated Info

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Rufkin View Post
    Which brought me to the idea that there is something in game already which uses two .s, one comma, and numbers. The coordinate system! And, can you guess how many pages we'd need to get a coordinate? Ten!
    Coordinates have the form

    xx.xY, xx.xZ

    where x is a digit, Y is N/S and Z is E/W

    But if you include the comma, that makes 11 characters, unless one of the coordinates has the form x.x, which is certainly possible.

    Obviously, if the letters N or S and E or W turn up, there will be little doubt that you're right...
    Dagoreth (Warden) and Belechannas (Lore-master) of Arkenstone

    < No Dorfs >
    Fighting the Dorf menace to Middle Earth since 2008

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rufkin View Post
    If you don't want possible spoilers about the scrap paper from the scavenger hunts, don't read on.


    While we are far from figuring much out about what exactly the Scrap Paper will be, I have been wondering, and I think I've figured something out.


    Each piece of paper offers a single digit, so far.


    The four we have access to have written on them:


    .
    ,
    .
    5



    Which brought me to the idea that there is something in game already which uses two .s, one comma, and numbers. The coordinate system! And, can you guess how many pages we'd need to get a coordinate? Ten!

    So, while we are far from done, I think I might have figured something out. If I'm right we'll still need to organize the numbers into coordinates, and figure out which map they correspond to, if it isn't the Shire.
    Actually, many co-ords will need eleven . . .

    xx.xS, xx.xW

    I think the Shire locations all require eleven.

    There are some locations on the map where double numbers wouldn't be an exclusion from the required 10. The Last homely House for example
    Apes are superior to man in this . . . . When a monkey looks in a mirror, he sees a monkey

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by LagunaD2 View Post
    Coordinates have the form

    xx.xY, xx.xZ

    where x is a digit, Y is N/S and Z is E/W

    But if you include the comma, that makes 11 characters, unless one of the coordinates has the form x.x, which is certainly possible.

    Obviously, if the letters N or S and E or W turn up, there will be little doubt that you're right...
    Right! Some of the coordinates can go up to xxx.x, but there are many that hit x.xY or (only separately I think) x.xZ. I started looking at the coordinates using the maps (bottom left of the page), but without any NESW lettering there are too many maps to really figure much out. The Eregion map, for example, ends near 0.0 E/W near Moria/Redhorn Pass, but Moria is all triple or quadruple digits in the West (xxx.xW or xx.xW). This could be a mistake in the map system, or they might be tied to different coordinate systems, I don't know.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rufkin View Post
    Right! Some of the coordinates can go up to xxx.x, but there are many that hit x.xY or (only separately I think) x.xZ. I started looking at the coordinates using the maps (bottom left of the page), but without any NESW lettering there are too many maps to really figure much out. The Eregion map, for example, ends near 0.0 E/W near Moria/Redhorn Pass, but Moria is all triple or quadruple digits in the West (xxx.xW or xx.xW). This could be a mistake in the map system, or they might be tied to different coordinate systems, I don't know.
    There are two distinct co-ordinate origins in use for exterior areas. The first in Eriador was used until the world builders, sometime while developing Moria, realized their chosen origin would eventually cause problems with overflows as it was too far west and north (moria's entrance was near the 0 mark for E/W and quite a ways south) and there was a tremendous amount of area to the south and east. So when Moria was released it was the first part of the map to use the new co-ordinate origin which was further south and east (making coordinates further north and west) and is now used for all of Rhovanion, Gondor and Mordor regions. This means there is some overlap where co-ordinates are not unique between Eriador and Rhovanion/Gondor/Mordor so a co-ordinate clue without a region might point to two possible map locatons.

    For instance, Bag End is at 29.4S, 71.4W in Eriador but those same co-ordinates are also in Limlight Gorge, Great River in Rhovanion. So just saying 29.4S, 71.4W is not sufficient to determine which location is correct. Of course, there are only two co-ordinate systems in use so it's not too hard to test both locations.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Garan View Post
    There are two distinct co-ordinate origins in use for exterior areas. The first in Eriador was used until the world builders, sometime while developing Moria, realized their chosen origin would eventually cause problems with overflows as it was too far west and north (moria's entrance was near the 0 mark for E/W and quite a ways south) and there was a tremendous amount of area to the south and east. So when Moria was released it was the first part of the map to use the new co-ordinate origin which was further south and east (making coordinates further north and west) and is now used for all of Rhovanion, Gondor and Mordor regions. This means there is some overlap where co-ordinates are not unique between Eriador and Rhovanion/Gondor/Mordor so a co-ordinate clue without a region might point to two possible map locatons.

    For instance, Bag End is at 29.4S, 71.4W in Eriador but those same co-ordinates are also in Limlight Gorge, Great River in Rhovanion. So just saying 29.4S, 71.4W is not sufficient to determine which location is correct. Of course, there are only two co-ordinate systems in use so it's not too hard to test both locations.
    .
    So in other words its just another cluster that was never fixed properly and now causes issues.

    Me: Please Add Draigoch Scales to the Skrimish Camp or Rep Barter Vendors in Dunland We are 30 Levels Past that Content
    Other forum members: You want it... do the content
    Me: Yeah I see your point
    Other forum members: Please add trait points to the store and more valor options so we dont have to run content
    Me: O.o ... Seriously?

    The Lag is So Bad, I just Saw Sara Oakheart Outrun Someone

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickman77 View Post
    .
    So in other words its just another cluster that was never fixed properly and now causes issues.
    Unfortunately, when they were concentrating on SoA, they didn't think it through far enough, the world that they were concerned with ended in the Trollshaws since SoA was focused on Angmar. They had no idea if the game would survive long enough to have any additional content. By the time they were working on Moria and considered the possibility that the game would survive long enough to need Mordor, they realized their mistake but it was too late to go back and rework all of the co-ordinates for everything in the game. Too many things depend on the co-ordinates, such as quest text, events triggering, etc. added to the fact that all of the third party sites referenced the existing co-ordinates, so they felt it was best not to try to fix the existing world and to just use Moria as a buffer to the new co-ordinate system. It works fairly well since the real underlying co-ordinates of each region are based on a whole different system which is mapped to the co-ordinates we see displayed so each region only has to be self consistent to keep the game from breaking (the need for mapping the displayed co-ordinates to the underlying system is based on limitations of the software that the world runs on and the inability to handle a larger single landblock which in turn limits the size of each region). It only becomes an issue when co-ordinates are given without a region identifier - heck, most people never even pay enough attention to realize how wildly the co-ordinates are off between Eriador and the rest of the world.

    So, yes, it was a cluster... that was never fixed properly, but given the potential for screw-ups in any attempted fix of the existing co-ordinates and the fact that most people are never even aware of it, I have to agree with Turbine's decision to let the discrepancy stand and just keep everything from Rhovanion forward on a consistent set of co-ordinates. The only real issues it causes are potential duplicate locations when only N/S, E/W co-ordinates are given (without Region) and the inability to provide co-ordinate mapping of one large contiguous map (which is one of the reasons that TerrainMap only displays one region at a time), neither of which is a really big issue, just minor inconveniences since including Region resolves any conflict.
    Last edited by Garan; May 08 2017 at 11:36 AM. Reason: clarification

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickman77 View Post
    .
    So in other words its just another cluster that was never fixed properly and now causes issues.
    It's because the co-ordinates aren't based on the map as a whole, but on the individual cells that they're in. Less of a RP element and more of just a simple version of the engine's own coordinate system. Acts this way because of the whole separate landmass zoning. Cell_1.dat, Cell_2.dat etc. being giant flat maps that make up the different Eriador, Rhovanion, Gondor and Mordor maps.

    I mean, unless the last one is like some cryptic poem or they orient the numbers to face the direction they're meant to... excluding NSEW fixes, 10 scrap pages would be 'XX.X, YY.Y' and involve a "E" "R" "G" or "M" to refer to which cell it sits on.

  9. #9
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    Nothing says all pages need to be limited to one character. We only know that the first 4 only have one character on them. I'd say that the OP has a really good guess.

  10. #10
    I just wish that they would tell us if we needed to keep all those scraps of paper or not. We already have so many objects that have no apparent use at present.

  11. #11
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    I just assume that they'll be combined with my Erebrandir's Horsehoe to make some kind of super-MacGuffin that says "You Win LOTRO!"

    In the meantime, I just wish they would stack.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elrohir_of_Kellemar View Post
    I just wish that they would tell us if we needed to keep all those scraps of paper or not. We already have so many objects that have no apparent use at present.
    Seeing as the scraps are coming in no particular numerical order that represents a co-ord, and I doubt every much they will expect us to guess the co-ord at the end (if it is even one), I'd hazard a guess that we will have to turn them all in at an NPC (Waldo maybe) in exchange for the map location "quest".

    I'd highly recommend you hold onto them all. They aren't bound, so if space is an issue, send to an alt to hold onto them.
    Apes are superior to man in this . . . . When a monkey looks in a mirror, he sees a monkey

  13. #13
    with the 'task items' which are labeled "task items" - while NOT being task items never being cleaned up for years (work for some intern with the internal data tables) , I dont hold my breath about much anymore with this game or its developers


    Since they havent told anyone they might be important for something (ie- a text label to telling the player that they are just rubbish) and having HALF the players discarded them, then its a botch if there ever was anything intended.

    Not to worry, I expect the same set of tour quests will be back for the 11th 12th etc anniversaries

  14. #14
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    Am I being trolled or is it my graphics settings or glasses? I see no discernible writing on any scrap papers. So do I get my eyes checked, go from Low to Ultra or clean my specs?

    Probably just a way of increasing pack, vault and shared storage space sales. They were on sale!
    Even if there's no intent, for me it's still:
    (9 X 10) = 90 slots to cover

    I think I'll use a throw away char slot to bank them for a few weeks.

    Mac

  15. #15
    I really hope the scraps are nothing, as I've been deleting mine.

  16. #16
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    Ok went to ultra high and see something now. I didn't get to see the full dragon firework, I didn't see the writing on the paper, how many other things do I miss with having to run on low just so it doesn't feel like wading through porridge all the time?

  17. #17
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    My guess is that these pieces of scrap paper are going to be bound into a book. A map can be considered as a form of a book laid out contiguously instead of consecutively, so a map binding would work, too.
    "No sadder words of tongue or pen are the words: 'Might have been'." -- John Greenleaf Whittier
    "Do or do not. There is no try." -- Yoda
    On planet Earth, there is a try.
    Indeed, in a world and life full of change, the only constant is human nature (A is A, after all :P).
    We old vets need to keep in mind those who come after us.

  18. #18
    Look, when something's given out as a quest-reward for a special anniversary episodic content- Assume that it -will- be something; ---never--- delete them until you know whether or not they are going to be a thing. If it turns-out to be a silly jest at the end, wait till that gets confirmed, and in the meantime, ---assume--- otherwise. That's the wiser, more prudent move to make- that way, if it turns out to be nothing, alright, so your bags were filled-up extra for two months- delete them and move-on. If it turns-out to be something, you don't get left-out. That a "5" has indeed appeared on one of the parchments indicates, to me at least, that this is leading to something...

    I also have good news. If you've deleted yours, and it turns-out to be something, those items are trade-able between alts. There's no binding on them. So there's bound to be other ways to access them, whether through kinnies, other friends, etc.---- maybe they'll even be sellable on AH. But, that's the most I can say. If you haven't deleted them yet------------------don't---------------so that you, the player, get the best possible result either way (losing nothing, or gaining something----- rather than (potentially) losing something).
    Phantion no longer has a character named Phantion in-game. He is now Auruiron on Landroval.

    .

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rieven View Post
    I really hope the scraps are nothing, as I've been deleting mine.
    Maybe a little hasty then.

    Every scavenger hunt I've ever experienced, whether as a child, or ones I created for my own children, or took part in at charity events as an adult, all involved the same pattern.

    1. Go to various locations.
    2. Find clues.
    3. Put clues together.
    4. Find end location and a prize.

    That's why I held onto the paper, even before I knew they had small items of text on them.

    Hopefully, for your sake, any location they may point to (if indeed they point to anything at all), can be shared with you by others, even if you do not physically have all the pieces. I'll have my fingers crossed for you.
    Apes are superior to man in this . . . . When a monkey looks in a mirror, he sees a monkey

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rieven View Post
    I really hope the scraps are nothing, as I've been deleting mine.
    Hehe, we're on the same boat here...

    But since i'm not interested in festivals, i really don't care at all.

    I hope notes lead to a really cool reward, for festival players to get.
    Thorgull lvl 105 Champion - Malendar lvl 105 Warden - Estelldion lvl 101 LoreMaster - Ballduin lvl 36 Runekeeper - Nharduil lvl 17 Minstrel All on Evernight

    Malenborn - Warden & Athanandor - Hunter on Crickhollow (Casual Wanderers)

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macdui View Post
    Ok went to ultra high and see something now. I didn't get to see the full dragon firework, I didn't see the writing on the paper, how many other things do I miss with having to run on low just so it doesn't feel like wading through porridge all the time?
    A quite interesting combination with all the advice to turn down graphic settings....

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macdui View Post
    Ok went to ultra high and see something now. I didn't get to see the full dragon firework, I didn't see the writing on the paper, how many other things do I miss with having to run on low just so it doesn't feel like wading through porridge all the time?
    Yea, when I received my 2 notes, before I quit on festival, i opened them, i didn't see anything written on them, so I throw them away. I run on medium-high settings.

    A I mentioned earlier I don't care about festivals but for other players this can lead to some frustration. Luckily those are not bound...
    Thorgull lvl 105 Champion - Malendar lvl 105 Warden - Estelldion lvl 101 LoreMaster - Ballduin lvl 36 Runekeeper - Nharduil lvl 17 Minstrel All on Evernight

    Malenborn - Warden & Athanandor - Hunter on Crickhollow (Casual Wanderers)

  23. #23
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    Cordovan stated on a stream to keep them so I have but Deer Lord Please Update Them to STACK!!!!
    Pinched - Burglar - Founding member of the Kin that Says Nii on Landroval.

  24. #24
    I tried it on a low level character, inside the Breeland Homestead Shop, and turned the graphics up to maximum.

    And see nothing


    Greetings, Polymachos
    Treufried, human Level 105 Lore Master, formerly from Maiar (DE), now on Belegaer
    Manfreid, dwarven Level 105 Champion, all the same
    Alexophor, human Level 105 Hunter, formerly a Nimrod, now on Landroval

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by abrahamL View Post
    Cordovan stated on a stream to keep them so I have but Deer Lord Please Update Them to STACK!!!!
    Making them stack isn't quite as simple as changing their max stack size. In this case the devs, for whatever reason, chose to implement the scraps as unique items like LIs - that is, every scrap gets a 16 digit server unique ID rather than the 8 digit ID used for stackable items. For instance, every scrap with a "," on it is an instance of the item with ID 0x7004853d, but instead of using that ID, they each get a server unique ID such as 030A00066515BB56 and 030A0006711C737C ("," scraps from two of my alts - the first four digits represent the server ID, in this case 030A is Landroval) which prevents them from stacking. Now, while they could go through the database and revert the unique IDs to 0 and set them all to use their generic IDs, I suspect the odds of screwing this up are greater than the minor inconvenience of wasted storage space for items that will be gone in two months.

    So, while it is possible to make them stack (at least those with the same message like ",") for easier storage on a mule character (you'd still have 10 separate stacks, one for each message) the risk just isn't worth it at this point.
    Last edited by Garan; May 10 2017 at 08:03 AM.

 

 
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