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  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Tennent View Post
    Well, as predicted, the short sighted exploiters have spoilt the fun for everyone.

    The real lesson here is that people need to prepare to take off of work on release day to take advantage of all the design mistakes before they are closed. I screwed that up bigly and it'll take me a long time to catch up to everyone else. Such is life. Grats to those smart enough to get it while the getting was good.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennent View Post
    Well, as predicted, the short sighted exploiters have spoilt the fun for everyone.

    yes, short sighted.
    The Lover®: So suave. So cool. So debonair. So smooth.

    This is CYAN. This is TEAL. Know the difference.

  3. #78
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    As was predicted already on the night of the release when the first sound of rep item drops from the 200k mobs was heared Turbine corrected it by removing the drops. At least we can quest with the normal lag and stutter again.
    Andahlia (105BRG) - Annare (105MNS) - Grimdhaz (105RNK) - Grimdoin (105GDN)
    Grimdoir (105CHM) - Tommelhood (105HNT) - Willegart (105WDN)

  4. #79
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    I tried to play in Wastes area early this morning where most Europeans are still asleep. But there was still skill lag, although not as bad as it was during the evening, and I had "reduced awareness" even in housing area!

    Heck, if players cannot play the game as intended, just remove all rep items COMPLETELY from landscape (at least unless player is NOT in group), as that would make those exploiters find something else to do, and instead add significantly more of those items in resource instances (BOTH in solo and group ones).

  5. #80
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    Embrace the FROST! I mean lag!
    Wisdom is not communicable. The wisdom which a wise Edhel tries to communicate always sounds foolish.

  6. #81
    If i recall correctly, the lootsystem got changed because there were rare drops in landscape which people farmed and annoyed each other by only fighting about the first hit for shards etc.
    I dont know any relevant drop in landscape that needs to be fought over now.
    The only thing that should be available for everyone is kills counting for quests and deeds and questitems that drop off killed enemies.
    All other loot should be changed to either the first hitter or the last hitter (where I prefer the first hit, as otherwise there is no way as a weak damaging class like guard to get any loot if stronger classes are around). Loot shouldnt be multiplied, just because there is a group or a bunch of individuals. Stronger enemies that need a group to be killed should have more loot, but this loot should be shared amongst a group and not given to each individual. If you are able to kill groupmobs solo, you should still get the full loot... at the cost that it takes more time. There is no single reason that makes sense to award a group with multiple versions of loot, just because they are many. And it breaks the whole landscape. This hasnt been the first time and goldfarmers are a good example for it going on for years. All just because of the lootsystem.
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Anführer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
    Deutsche Guides für nahezu alles, was Casuals interessieren könnte, gibts hier: http://gdfv.forumo.de/guides-f24/

  7. #82
    Please stop introducing new content instead of fix the game. Bugged skills, bad performance, laggy servers...
    The game has become unplayable...

  8. #83
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    This can't be blamed on players. When players group up on masse in raids to go on killing sprees to obtain rep items in such a way - it tells us one thing. The rep grind is at fault to begin with. If people are devising ways to get around it, it means - it's too heavy and too off-putting. This rep grind is miles worse than the rep gated quest lines in Central Gondor, and people farmed the rep items on landscape there (and Turbine eventually increased their drops later on) - this is no different. If they are now removing rep items from landscape mobs, they need to devise a different way to earn them, as people will get fed up with the grind otherwise. People don't want to spend months getting gear, then only have use of it for a short time before the next lot of gear comes along. They want it as fast as possible, so they can use it for a decent amount of time before they need to change it again. if they'd made this possible through a more general form of playing, people wouldn't need to farm. I ran the whole update, and the rep items I obtained from it, didn't make a decent sized dent in the rep bars. I went up to Lang Rhuven and joined a group for half an hour (after running everything else available), and still the dent in rep that I made is tiny.

    Lesson to be learned - if you're gonna devise systems that suck (massively rep heavy update, then triple costs to speed it up to boot) - be prepared for people to try and work around them or speed them up, or worst case, not bother with them at all.

    This won't solve the problem of farms - people will just find a different spot on landscape instead, and then players won't be able to quest, because the rest of the map is designed for solo play. Are all landscape rep drops going to be turned off then?

    *Interesting notion in light of the fix now applied - If the farming of Lang Rhuven has caused lag to the extent that SSG now needs to remove it - then, they seriously need to consider shutting the moors too, because this kind of mass group forming - farming (for rank and comms) is common there, and may be the cause of this "lag affect" on a more widespread basis.
    Last edited by Arnenna; Mar 23 2017 at 06:11 AM.
    Monkeys are superior to man in this . . . . When a monkey looks in a mirror, he sees a monkey.
    Edited, because some folk just can't do wordplay.

  9. #84
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    Why there are people saying that the lag in new area is cause by farm raid/s? Those people did not play for two weeks before the U20 launch?

    It was terrible before the update, it is terrible after the update.

    Everything is SSG's fault and they are the only ones to blame (even if they inherited some problems from Turbine).

    And the new ultra grind just makes me sick. How unimaginative you have to be to come with something like this to keep people playing... Is creating the huge grind the only way you can keep people busy in game? What about more quests, bigger areas, new instances? No, the easiest solution is to create a grind.

    I'm almost 100% sure now, that Mordor is going to be the last expansion and basically end of the game.

    Everything is going downhill from the moment SSG got the control of the game.

  10. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Hey everyone. We are aware of the lag issues occurring in the new U20 regions and are working on a solution.


    Update: We will be making changes to live servers shortly in response to the lag seen in areas of the Update 20 landscape. We will continue to monitor both client- and server-based lag from there, and are planning a patch for early next week.
    It is just the same (source) of the lag which occurs in the Moors. I hope you will finally apply it there and here.

  11. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    This can't be blamed on players. When players group up on masse in raids to go on killing sprees to obtain rep items in such a way - it tells us one thing. The rep grind is at fault to begin with. It people are devising ways to get around it, it means - it's too heavy and too off-putting. If they are now removing rep items from landscape mobs, they need to devise a different way to earn them, as people will get fed up with the grind otherwise. People don't want to spend months getting gear, then only have use of it for a short time before the next lot of gear comes along. They want it as fast as possible, so they can use it for a decent amount of time before they need to change it again. if they'd made this possible through a more general form of playing, people wouldn't need to farm. I ran the whole update, and the rep items I obtained from it, didn't make a decent sized dent in the rep bars. I went up to Lang Rhuven and joined a group for half an hour (after running everything else available), and still the dent in rep that I made is tiny.

    Lesson to be learned - if you're gonna devise systems that suck (massively rep heavy update, then triple costs to speed it up to boot) - be prepared for people to try and work around them or speed them up, or worst case, not bother with them at all.

    This won't solve the problem of farms - people will just find a different spot on landscape instead, and then players won't be able to quest, because the rest of the map is designed for solo play. Are all landscape rep drops going to be turned off then?

    *Interesting notion in light of the fix now applied - If the farming of Lang Rhuven has caused lag to the extent that SSG now needs to remove it - then, they seriously need to consider shutting the moors too, because this kind of mass group forming - farming (for rank and comms) is common there, and may be the cause of this "lag affect" on a more widespread basis.
    On spot analysis.

    However, the "solution" that SSG took was, not unexpectedly, to make the grind even more unbearable, by removing one way to obtain rep items and not adding any other way.

    I really don't know, why I should continue subbing. I was prepared to do it for charitable reasons (currently the sub does not benefit me in any way).
    But the content is designed in such a way, that its actually better not to sub at all, and to use multiple ftp accounts to facilitate the farming.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anglion View Post
    Why there are people saying that the lag in new area is cause by farm raid/s? Those people did not play for two weeks before the U20 launch?
    The lag before the update was laaaaag. The lag caused by farm raids after the update is laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag

    The previous one was annoying. The current one is 30 seconds on *any* action in the areas blocked by farm raids. Regardless if this is movement, skills or even trying to port away.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by thinx View Post
    The lag before the update was laaaaag. The lag caused by farm raids after the update is laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag

    The previous one was annoying. The current one is 30 seconds on *any* action in the areas blocked by farm raids. Regardless if this is movement, skills or even trying to port away.
    Then the solution is not to put into place systems that make players - farm in this way. I work through grinds - always have, but this most recent rep grind - which drives the whole update - is the problem, not the ways that players come up with to try to reduce it.

    SSG made this grind to be painful. They on top of that, added price increases to make it even more unbearable by a large chunk of players, and made speed up options more available to people that farm group content. My question is . . . What did they expect to happen? It's a backfire, and blame lies firmly on their own heads for this one.
    Monkeys are superior to man in this . . . . When a monkey looks in a mirror, he sees a monkey.
    Edited, because some folk just can't do wordplay.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    This can't be blamed on players. When players group up on masse in raids to go on killing sprees to obtain rep items in such a way - it tells us one thing. The rep grind is at fault to begin with. If people are devising ways to get around it, it means - it's too heavy and too off-putting. This rep grind is miles worse than the rep gated quest lines in Central Gondor, and people farmed the rep items on landscape there (and Turbine eventually increased their drops later on) - this is no different. If they are now removing rep items from landscape mobs, they need to devise a different way to earn them, as people will get fed up with the grind otherwise. People don't want to spend months getting gear, then only have use of it for a short time before the next lot of gear comes along. They want it as fast as possible, so they can use it for a decent amount of time before they need to change it again. if they'd made this possible through a more general form of playing, people wouldn't need to farm. I ran the whole update, and the rep items I obtained from it, didn't make a decent sized dent in the rep bars. I went up to Lang Rhuven and joined a group for half an hour (after running everything else available), and still the dent in rep that I made is tiny.
    This is because the drops rate is ("was" if changed) not that high as some cried without thinking in previous areas <because, it seems, that many here have very bad and selective memory or simply they haven't played the game as they claim>.

    In 15 minutes you get several 700 rep items in other areas, which is fine. Killing creatures for loot <not AFK, not using bots or any other cheat> was never considered an exploit unless something was really evidencing not being intended. It's clear this is not the case.

    On a side note, the task items dropped by those humanoids are not used for Host of the West tasks either (no, I don't think this is coincidence); and gold... wth cares about gold at this point.

    *Interesting notion in light of the fix now applied - If the farming of Lang Rhuven has caused lag to the extent that SSG now needs to remove it - then, they seriously need to consider shutting the moors too, because this kind of mass group forming - farming (for rank and comms) is common there, and may be the cause of this "lag affect" on a more widespread basis.
    Yes it's interesting because if a raid can lag the whole server (which I do not believe, by experience and simply reasoning a bit; it's not that hard) then they have to shutdown all raid content, and reduce the population limit in all layers which would affect PvMP and player events. Of course, "nobody" wants that
    Please ignore my ridiculous running animation. Eru was smoking something really bad.

  15. #90
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    And as I said earlier, this is no fix. All it has done is push the farms into solo landscape areas, where it is now impossible to quest because there are no flipping mobs left.

    From World . . .

    "Scoironk rep farm 4\24"
    Monkeys are superior to man in this . . . . When a monkey looks in a mirror, he sees a monkey.
    Edited, because some folk just can't do wordplay.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    And as I said earlier, this is no fix. All it has done is push the farms into solo landscape areas, where it is now impossible to quest because there are no flipping mobs left.

    From World . . .

    "Scoironk rep farm 4\24"
    I'm glad to see that the high level of cluelessness of Turbine has been kept at SSG....

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    And as I said earlier, this is no fix.
    Of course it's not. The bottom line here, is that SSG released this update botched. Somehow, the end-game content (grinding for rep) got released with "unintentional" consequences. Which, of course, we know is complete BS. The apologists will defend. Those of us who actually want more from an MMO they give money to will continue to demand more from a company that clearly cannot provide a sustained, quality product. I have no doubt we will be revisiting a similar topic when the next update comes out. And so it goes...
    Finally had his William Shatner moment :)

  18. #93
    I still don't see what's the issue on this. People farm reputation items like any general currency. The most efficient way, like it always been in this game but on the era of one coin per group. However it means you can just get "basic" versions of items, not the absolute best, which require you to do raid and FS instance.

    And time wise... You can decide to spent about 1h daily doing dailies few weeks, or do 10h day farms to get rep maxed in a day.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    I still don't see what's the issue on this.

    ...or do 10h day farms to get rep maxed in a day.
    And that is part of the problem.

    In what universe did standing in one spot, firing off a few skills (if you're lucky, given the lag) at face-roll mobs for 10 hours become engaging end-game content?

    And most importantly, the farming is having a direct negative affect on the game performance across the board.
    Finally had his William Shatner moment :)

  20. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by bucko39 View Post
    And that is part of the problem.

    In what universe did standing in one spot, firing off a few skills (if you're lucky, given the lag) at face-roll mobs for 10 hours become engaging end-game content?

    And most importantly, the farming is having a direct negative affect on the game performance across the board.


    Why should it be better doing uninteresting dailies for weeks / months instead of grinding mobs for some hours ?
    If I had to choose, I choose the second one.

    Both are a stupid way to get end game stuff, the problem aren't players but a bad game design.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by bucko39 View Post
    And that is part of the problem.

    In what universe did standing in one spot, firing off a few skills (if you're lucky, given the lag) at face-roll mobs for 10 hours become engaging end-game content?

    And most importantly, the farming is having a direct negative affect on the game performance across the board.
    Agreed. The content should have been designed to give a reasonable amount of reputation via lots of different avenues. For example, during questlines of the new area (eg, for hand ins, 700 host of the west rep and then choose 100 rep from a list of the other three factions), a rep item for each herbalist quest, rep items for the Host of the West dailies, a rep item per solo crafting instance, a handful of rep items per fellow crafting instance, and rep items in the boxes of FI's and in the raid chests. If rep items are to drop, it would be better to make them drop inside the instances and in a controlled manner, instead of mob kills on landscape. People in a real hurry to speed it up, could then use resets, but the rep rate would be reasonable enough for most players to just plod along without them.

    What's interesting here today though is people saying yesterday that these farms are not necessary, because there is enough rep available to get to ally - just via questing (which wasn't the case in my experience), and now they are saying, hey, these farms aren't a problem.
    Monkeys are superior to man in this . . . . When a monkey looks in a mirror, he sees a monkey.
    Edited, because some folk just can't do wordplay.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by MolagBal View Post
    1. Why should it be better doing uninteresting dailies for weeks / months instead of grinding mobs for some hours ?
    If I had to choose, I choose the second one.

    2. the problem aren't players but a bad game design.
    1. I didn't say it was better. However, you can design "dailies" so that they are somewhat engaging over an extended period of time. It's a historical fact, that a large number of people who have farmed the rep items in the past two days will be complaining at the end of the week because "there is nothing to do".

    2. In this particular case, it's both. Players know that the mere act of farming rep items in the current manner is adding to the already existing performance issues. And yet, they are doing it anyway.
    Finally had his William Shatner moment :)

  23. #98
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    I've spent a few hours yesterday doing quests in the new area and can already tell that I will most likely never get even the worst of the new items. The new rep grind, this whole update is, in a single word, INSANE.

    And yet yesterday, there were folks on Landroval proudly showing off their new, fully tricked out gold jewelry. Some have said you shouldn't blame the players for gaming a flawed system; and to that I say, "why the hell not?"
    Nobody is making them do it; surely they aren't being forced or ordered to at gunpoint. Rather, they have made a conscious decision to do what they are doing and could just as easily NOT do it!

    Is the problem due to poor design? YES! Is the problem due to poor testing? YES! Was U20 implementation poorly executed? YES! But never forget it takes two to tango and the players are just as much to blame as SSG.

    It's a pile of ####. It stinks of it's own accord. The player base doesn't need to poke and stir it just to make it stink any worse.
    "It is better to be present with ten men....than absent with ten thousand"
    Daenith Erlundir ~ of Landroval
    Ranger

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by bucko39 View Post
    ... Players know that the mere act of farming rep items in the current manner is adding to the already existing performance issues. And yet, they are doing it anyway.
    Gotta get while the getting is good. Turbine, and now apparently SSG, reward the exploiters and punish those who play it properly. It has happened over and over again, and it's always the same ineffective response. Exploiters get to keep what they've gotten and the grind becomes even worse subsequently for those who played it straight.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolamrothdame View Post
    Thirded. I went and checked out the spring horse and dresses today. They're pretty, but I can't face grinding for the horse for this year, I might get it for one or two of my characters, when I always used to get the horse for all of them. I'll run Inn League on my hunter to get the dresses and cloaks and call it a day. Festivals used to be fun for me and now I just can't face the grind on top of the grind I've already got going on. And forget the stupid Ithilien fragments quest-I'm not doing it for the spring festival. Yule was about the only one that was doable there. I've been in the new area, finished the epic, have been working on quests. I've got the mats from the dagorlad nodes, I've got a couple of random rep bits, I've got a couple of what I think are crafting mats and two recipes. And no idea of how to use them or honestly much interest in doing so. I will upgrade my armor again when I absolutely have to and not before. Two characters currently at cap and really thinking I don't much want to bring another one up.

    You want to know what I've been doing the last two months? Low level deeds on my alts to get points for those Crimson trees in the store. Trees for my island give me much more pleasure than this ridiculous, stupid armor grind. At least I know the trees won't be obsolete six months from now. And the lower areas are much more fun than the higher ones.
    I could've written this exact same post, with the difference being only one capped character instead of two. I'm running other characters through low-level content these days.

    I've been running the Spring fest on a new character to get the dresses and gain Inn League rep. Yesterday I was running the Inn League challenge and the lag was keeping me from talking to the quest NPCs, opening doors to get out of pubs, and letting me get through the doors once they did open. But the timer kept counting down. I was nowhere near the loot-farm raids, and still the server lag was affecting me.

    Get it together, SSG.
    “All that is gold does not glitter,
    Not all those who wander are lost;
    The old that is strong does not wither,
    Deep roots are not reached by the frost."

 

 
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