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  1. #151
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    Wales, United Kingdom
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    Steam charts are not conclusive. A lot of players play LOTRO without ever going near Steam.. I'm one of them.
    Apes are superior to man in this . . . . When a monkey looks in a mirror, he sees a monkey

  2. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    I really don't mind what the people that raid would say. I'd say what I always say - include all play styles in end game. It causes problems -- in both directions - when the game doesn't do that.

    If the people that enjoy raiding can obtain phials off mobs in their raid run - They would be doing that raid for it. People that like doing small instances - would be doing those for it, people that enjoy landscape combat, would be doing that for it and people that like picking flowers, would be picking flowers for it.

    To now come out with a line like "Guess what the vocal minority would say to that." just shows me that you are happy to use the same kind of argument in reverse. An argument that judging by the manner of your posting suggests you find it distasteful when the pendulum isn't swinging in your favour.

    I've always been of the same stance throughout my lifetime in the forum here. I will walk both paths, hence, nothing to lose for my part, and even if I didn't, I'd still stand up for playstyles that I don't participate in, to be fully included at end game. It's important for the game IMO.
    Cute thinking but in reality people farm always the easiest choice for grinds.

  3. #153
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    302
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Steam charts are not conclusive. A lot of players play LOTRO without ever going near Steam.. I'm one of them.
    Very true.

    Also, Steam no longer sells anything LotRO related and hasn't for a while, so there's no sales charts to really go off either.

  4. #154
    I like flower picking as a nice additional activity.
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Anführer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer

  5. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    I like flower picking as a nice additional activity.
    Deine Posts fallen mir immer wieder auf. Du hast einfach 0 ahnung vom Endcontent, die Option ist zwar ganz schön für Leute die neu/wieder anfangen aber warum sollte mann bessere Sachen bekommen für etwas was jeder 2 Jährige solo machen kann ? warst du schonmal im Raid auf T2 CM ? Das was du manchmal von dir gibst ist einfach so ein Schwachsinn. Runi sollte gernerft werden du weiß schon was für einen DMG mann brauch im Raid ?

  6. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Grego28 View Post
    Who says that, if I may ask?
    .
    well, basic knowledge of customer service says that
    https://www.helpscout.net/75-custome...es-statistics/
    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20130...ld-but-haven-t
    http://money.howstuffworks.com/customer-service2.htm

    When I first started working at Walt Disney World, we had to take customer service classes. One of the things stressed to us was this

    For every bad experience a customer has they tell on average
    • 7-10 people
    • those 7-10 each tell 4-6 people
    • Those 4-6 each tell 2-3 and
    • Those 3-2 tell 1 each

    Totals
    Minimum 87 people know about 1 negative experience (and with the rise of social media those numbers are growing much much faster)

    Now for a good experience a customer will tell on average
    • 3 people
    • those 3 tell 1-2 each
    • those 1-2 tell no one

    Total:
    Minimum 10 people know about 1 positive experience (and studies have shown that with the rise of social media those numbers are declining because people use social media more often to complain than praise)

    Now I do not know if the above is 100% accurate but it was drilled into our heads again when we trained Customer Service and WDW Customer Service is rated yearly as one of the BEST in the world because we strived to go above and beyond the customers expectations. Turbine / WB / and now SSG are not.
    Welcome to Maitenance Mode
    Me: Please Add Draigoch Scales to the Skrimish Camp or Rep Barter Vendors in Dunland We are 30 Levels Past that Content
    Other forum members: You want it... do the content
    Me: Yeah I see your point
    Other forum members: Please add trait points to the store and more valor options so we dont have to run content
    Me: O.o ... Seriously?

    And when the Devs make fun of how buggy it is in Bingo that should tell you something
    Peace Love and Tacos

  7. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by GWAIHIRFLAMER View Post
    Deine Posts fallen mir immer wieder auf. Du hast einfach 0 ahnung vom Endcontent, die Option ist zwar ganz schön für Leute die neu/wieder anfangen aber warum sollte mann bessere Sachen bekommen für etwas was jeder 2 Jährige solo machen kann ? warst du schonmal im Raid auf T2 CM ? Das was du manchmal von dir gibst ist einfach so ein Schwachsinn. Runi sollte gernerft werden du weiß schon was für einen DMG mann brauch im Raid ?
    dein Name passt

    Um das ganze etwas mehr auszuführen: Wenn überhaupt ist der Raid die einzige Instanz, die auch nur ansatzweise den Schadensoutput erfordert, den manche Klassen erzeugen können. Falls du meinst, der Schaden wäre für den aktuellen Endcontent notwendig, ist der Raid also der einzige existente Endcontent. Ich möchte hier widersprechen.
    Und falls der Schaden, den Runis und verbuggte Jäger machen für den Raid zwingend notwendig wäre, dann könnte man den Raid einfach entsprechend mit nerfen, wenn man die Klassen ein wenig passender stutzt. Alles außer dem Raid im T2hm schafft man mit 100er Ausrüstung. Fakt, weil: hab ich gemacht.
    Du überschätzt 2-jährige und 'jeden'.
    Ja, Blumenausrüstung sollte nicht BiS sein, zumindest nicht viele Teile. ein Paar slots wären meiner Meinung nach in Ordnung, aber da haben sie etwas übertrieben. Das hat aber nicht damit zu tun, ob man Blumen sammeln als Nebenbeschäftigung mögen darf oder nicht. Und nichts anderes habe ich geschrieben. Ich schrieb nicht, ich möge Blumen sammeln als einzige Hauptbeschäftigung im Endgame und das fände ich auch unangebracht.
    Ich war schonmal im Raid im T2 und wir haben den Hardmode beim ersten Boss mit ner Randomgruppe versucht. Die Randomgruppe war zu schlecht, wir schafften nur ca 40% der Moral bevor wir das Fass brauchten und somit nicht den ganzen Troll mit nur einem Fass. Wir hatten aber auch weder einen Runi noch einen Jäger und viele Leute mit schlechter Ausrüstung und es war vor u19.1. Mittlerweile gibts deutlich bessre Ausrüstung als bei Raidrelease, somit ist der Schaden höher, somit wäre ein DMG nerf noch angebrachter als bei Release. Dass ich den Raid nicht im T2hm spiele, liegt aber einfach daran, dass mir Raids keinen Spaß machen und ich keine Lust habe, mich mit so vielen Spielern auf einmal zu beschäftigen. Ich bleibe lieber im kleinen Rahmen, was nicht heißen muss, dass das aus mir einen schlechteren Spieler macht, sondern lediglich einen desinteressierten, was Raids angeht.
    Wenn du alle Weisheit der Welt hast, sodass du meine Posts als klaren Schwachsinn abstempeln kannst, lass uns doch ein wenig davon hören
    Soweit ich die Sache sehe, vertrete ich lediglich meine Meinung und dazu ist das Forum da. Abweichende Meinungen sind genau das und nicht 'Schwachsinn'
    Um den DMG im Raid zu kennen, braucht man nur die Timer und Moralwerte der Gegner, dazu muss man den Raid nichtmal spielen. Wer sich ein wenig im Forum umsieht, sieht recht schnell, dass die DPS-Werte fähiger Raider deutlich über den für den Raid notwendigen liegen.

    As we are in the english parts of the forum here, translation follows:

    Quote Originally Posted by GWAIHIRFLAMER View Post
    I see your posts every now and then. You have no idea of endcontent at all, the option [flowerpicking] is nice for people that start from scratch, but why should one get better stuff for things that every 2-year-old could do solo? Have you ever been to the raid in T2C? What you write sometimes is just bull####. runekeepers should get nerfed... do you know the amount of needed damage for the raid? [add some random typos]
    Your name fits

    A little longer answer: If anything, then the raid is the only instance that might maybe need the possible DPS which some classes can put out. If you think, that this DPS is needed for endgame, then the raid is the only endgame. I dont agree on this.
    And if the possible DPS of runekeepers and bugged hunters was needed to complete throneraid, the raid could just get nerfed together with bugged hunters and runekeepers. Everything else besides the raid on T2c can be done with lvl100 equipment, which is a fact, because I did it.
    You overestimate what 'every 2-year-old' is able to do.
    Yes, flowerequipment shouldn't be BiS, at least not all parts. Some slots would be okay imo, but they overdid it a bit here. This has nothing to do with me liking flowergathering as a nice additive thing and I wrote nothing else. I did not write that I like flowergathering as the main endgame content and I wouldnt as that shouldnt be the case.
    I have been in T2 Raid and we tried T2c Rakothas with a not optimized randomgroup. We were bad and could only damage him for 40% of his morale before needing the barrel and like that, no way to get him done with just one barrel. We did neither have runekeepers nor hunters and several bad-equipped characters (like my lvl100-equipment cappy without oathbreakerreset and ettenset) in our randomgroup and it was before u19.1. Now, better equipment is available, which raises possible dps, which increases the need for a DPS nerf even more than when the raid was released. That I dont raid in T2c is not because I couldn't, but mostly because I just dont like to play with so many other players. I prefer smaller groups, which makes me a raid-desinterested player, not a bad player.
    I you know every wisdom of the world, so that you can easily declare my posts as 'bull####', then please share your knowledge
    As I see it, i just post my opinions which is the point in this forum. Different opinions are just that and not 'bull####' (smiley here, but forum says i mustnt use 6 images)
    To know the needed DPS for the raid, one doesn't need to play it. One just needs to know timers and morale, which are available in the forums. If one looks around in the forums, one sees that the possible DPS numbers of good players are clearly higher than whats necessary for the raid. Its just not purely about DPS.
    Last edited by Oelle; Jan 16 2017 at 11:36 AM.
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Anführer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer

  8. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by GWAIHIRFLAMER View Post
    Deine Posts fallen mir immer wieder auf. Du hast einfach 0 ahnung vom Endcontent, die Option ist zwar ganz schön für Leute die neu/wieder anfangen aber warum sollte mann bessere Sachen bekommen für etwas was jeder 2 Jährige solo machen kann ?
    I will reply in English right away:

    While I do not agree that flower jewellery and armor should be better than raid armor it is obvious that SSG does not think so and they said as much.
    They pretty much said they will bring updated gear for each playstyle in different updates.

    I personally would prefer that flower jewellery gives a great option to catch up but it should not go beyond the raid gear stats.
    I also would have preferred if that catch up option would have been put into system we already had (hint: crafting).
    Even if that means i will not be able to completely catch up as I do not have the time to adapt to a raiding schedule.

    Obviously the actual flower gear by itself is still pretty meaningless if you do not have essences for it. Granted it is still better using the same essences you had in crafted 100 or DA gear but it would still be best with golden T8 or golden Ithilien essences which are the real grind and directly connected to the store.
    While they (essences or ingredients for them) are probably not a problem to get for raiders with a lot of gold in the AH it is still the biggest hurdle to actually catch up with gameplay only.

  9. #159
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    1,428
    Quote Originally Posted by kickman77 View Post
    .
    well, basic knowledge of customer service says that
    https://www.helpscout.net/75-custome...es-statistics/
    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20130...ld-but-haven-t
    http://money.howstuffworks.com/customer-service2.htm

    When I first started working at Walt Disney World, we had to take customer service classes. One of the things stressed to us was this

    For every bad experience a customer has they tell on average
    • 7-10 people
    • those 7-10 each tell 4-6 people
    • Those 4-6 each tell 2-3 and
    • Those 3-2 tell 1 each

    Totals
    Minimum 87 people know about 1 negative experience (and with the rise of social media those numbers are growing much much faster)

    Now for a good experience a customer will tell on average
    • 3 people
    • those 3 tell 1-2 each
    • those 1-2 tell no one

    Total:
    Minimum 10 people know about 1 positive experience (and studies have shown that with the rise of social media those numbers are declining because people use social media more often to complain than praise)

    Now I do not know if the above is 100% accurate but it was drilled into our heads again when we trained Customer Service and WDW Customer Service is rated yearly as one of the BEST in the world because we strived to go above and beyond the customers expectations. Turbine / WB / and now SSG are not.
    Which exactly points out that SSG -and even before, WB/Turbine- luck experience as far as costumer service works, in general.

    The feedback is a reality, we can read it, it is not an illusion.

    Nor is all this the effect of just another propaganda.

    We have "consumed" the essence system; we have "consumed" the flora system.

    We do not like either, because both systems are not friendly for any costumer and that is why we must underline their bad politics, bad communication and bad management.

    They keep ignoring the feedback of their player basis and, as for "flora system", not only do they ignore all these threads full of complaints about this project, but they also

    have the intention to expand it further with U20 and the upcoming updates.

    As you said, with the current rise -actually, domination- of social media they need to take at least into consideration -if any- all this negative feedback about this issue.
    Last edited by Grego28; Jan 16 2017 at 06:13 PM.
    HAPPY NEW YEAR
    2 0 1 7

  10. #160
    What kickman writes means, that if you divide the numbers of dislikes by ten, you can compare it to the number of likes.
    Yea, you see much more dislikes in the forum than likes. But not much more than ten times the number of likes.
    People that dislike something are much more 'aggressive' in showing their dislike than likers. That does not mean that they are the majority.
    Which explains the ignorance from dev-side.
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Anführer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer

  11. #161
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Greece
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    Which explains the ignorance from dev-side.
    As far as I have seen from the team, I do not believe they ignore our feedback overall.

    They do read forums -I know they do- and they decide to react whenever they believe they must.

    We have seen quite a few times developers getting something back or fixing a fault out of their schedule.

    However, in some critical cases they do not -unfortunately- act properly and that is why many of us come in here and complain.

    Another critical case, in my opinion, is flora/essence system.

    They must make at least adjustments -if not cancel it at all, in order players/costumers keep buying their product.

    As far as I am concerned -and I do care about LOTRO- I do not mind money, but I do mind not to be tricked by any company.

    I assume we all have common sense here, and flora/essence system -apparently- is far beyond the very least common sense.

    I do not know about the rest community, I have already said "no" to flora/essence grind after I had used it a lot and after I had -finally!- realized how unfriendly measure is this for

    any player of this game.

    That is why I decided to take the risk and try to underline how great is the need for developers to make any adjustment needed about this issue that obviously LOTRO

    community do not agree with.

    They must take into consideration all this feedback, at least.
    HAPPY NEW YEAR
    2 0 1 7

  12. #162
    okay, ignorance is the wrong word.
    replace it with 'low resonance for bad feedback'
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Anführer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer

  13. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Grego28 View Post
    Which exactly points out that SSG -and even before, WB/Turbine- luck experience as far as costumer service works, in general.

    The feedback is a reality, we can read it, it is not an illusion.

    Nor is all this the effect of just another propaganda.

    We have "consumed" the essence system; we have "consumed" the flora system.

    We do not like either, because both systems are not friendly for any costumer and that is why we must underline their bad politics, bad communication and bad management.

    They keep ignoring the feedback of their player basis and, as for "flora system", not only do they ignore all these threads full of complaints about this project, but they also

    have the intention to expand it further with U20 and the upcoming updates.

    As you said, with the current rise -actually, domination- of social media they need to take at least into consideration -if any- all this negative feedback about this issue.
    .
    I totally agree and as I have said before they have been ignoring majority of the feedback since RoR beta... that was the last time I saw the community make an impact with some changed to mounted combat and actually causing them to delay the expansion. From that point on we were ignored

    Now with the expansion of the flora system in u20, I suspect that was something almost done with the development cycle that came down from WB marketing as a cash grab tactic. SSG with their aquisition of the game had no time to replace it. As I said in other threads, we really will not see the major changes SSG is going to make until After the mordor expansion (maybe some changes with that but doubful as it has been in development for quite some time).

    When it comes to gaming, they are usually 1 year ahead of what we are doing now
    Welcome to Maitenance Mode
    Me: Please Add Draigoch Scales to the Skrimish Camp or Rep Barter Vendors in Dunland We are 30 Levels Past that Content
    Other forum members: You want it... do the content
    Me: Yeah I see your point
    Other forum members: Please add trait points to the store and more valor options so we dont have to run content
    Me: O.o ... Seriously?

    And when the Devs make fun of how buggy it is in Bingo that should tell you something
    Peace Love and Tacos

  14. #164
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Hot tube
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    259
    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    okay, ignorance is the wrong word.
    replace it with 'low resonance for bad feedback'
    oh yes, but BAD is also wrong word, replace it with ANY... feedback, that will be more accurate
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    anyway, x days later and nothing about Producer!s letter... (i know, i know, its taking ages to translate 2pages... maybe try google translator then)
    i think they should rename into trollbine... or just scared? say to us about more flowers and maybe more ppl will go play something else right now... yule is over, u know... funny 250 repeatetive quests in NI... for wasting many hours, sweet

  15. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    What kickman writes means, that if you divide the numbers of dislikes by ten, you can compare it to the number of likes.
    Yea, you see much more dislikes in the forum than likes. But not much more than ten times the number of likes.
    People that dislike something are much more 'aggressive' in showing their dislike than likers. That does not mean that they are the majority.
    Which explains the ignorance from dev-side.
    .
    Exactly that but than you have to take into account the percentage of players that use the forums

    For lotro lets use that magic 10% number
    So lets say 1000 players
    100 use the forums
    of those hundred 90 like to complain while 10 offer praise

    But we dont see the numbers of people who log in, spend money, love what they are doing and never make a sound
    We also do not see the number of dis-satisfied players who ignore the system completely.

    So just because we feel we are being ingored, we also have to remember we are a small portion of this games community and we do not see the same things they may be seeing
    Welcome to Maitenance Mode
    Me: Please Add Draigoch Scales to the Skrimish Camp or Rep Barter Vendors in Dunland We are 30 Levels Past that Content
    Other forum members: You want it... do the content
    Me: Yeah I see your point
    Other forum members: Please add trait points to the store and more valor options so we dont have to run content
    Me: O.o ... Seriously?

    And when the Devs make fun of how buggy it is in Bingo that should tell you something
    Peace Love and Tacos

  16. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Grego28 View Post
    Who says that, if I may ask?

    Or, is it a general moral conclusion of yours, since you seem to know exactly -see above:about 7-10- the difference between the "noise" effected by the two groups?



    Why I have the feeling that I just read a text of another "fanboi", who cannot -obviously- see through evidences and facts?



    I am fairly sorry, but I will have to insist on my original opinion about forums.

    Yes, it is true; whether you like it or not, forums -not only of this game, but of any other game actually- have always used by developers, in order to know the necessary

    feedback out of their costumers, who apparently consume their content.

    Since there is not any similar to your so called "professional setup survey"...



    This shows literally nothing about game sales, if I may say so.

    Why would possibly care about the number of players or steamers logged in, while the same time the same players do not renew their subscriptions and/or keep

    the store on embargo, in order to hold out against non friendly politics?

    Let us see the sales and the advancement of the company, if they will adhere to their first intention to keep up an already rejected by the community project like "flora" with U20.

    Except that they will be happy with having f2p players, who just log, in order to pick flowers around the Mount Doom -like yourself, I suspect?

    That is another scenario that would be interesting to see, for sure!
    It's common knowledge you learn when taking marketing lessons that customers with bad experiences share this information with much more people compared to those with good experiences.
    One example: https://www.zendesk.com/resources/th...tomer-service/ (this one is about service but the scheme is the same)

    About steam statistics: I already stated that those are not accurate. We don't know how much Turbine/SSG is earning, we don't how many customers are subscribers, etc.
    The only vague indications are log-in numbers http://lotrostats.gefallenehelden.de/ and steam charts. Take your conclusions or don't. There is nothing else to look at.

    Don't try to put me into a gamer-type corner. I never stated what I prefer and which content I play most.

  17. #167
    Join Date
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    Greece
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    1,428
    Quote Originally Posted by Esterian View Post
    Don't try to put me into a gamer-type corner. I never stated what I prefer and which content I play most.
    Request taken.

    Fair enough, fine!
    HAPPY NEW YEAR
    2 0 1 7

 

 
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