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  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Otdanon View Post
    ^This. The game is laggy, buggy; we haven't had a proper crafting update in a while; no pvp gear available; outdated relics, etc. And they choose to allocate resources to yet another RP/filthy casual project
    I am a "filthy casual" and I don't like the idea of appearance updates. I really don't see how adding yet more high poly models to a game that is having trouble dealing with the models it has can possibly be viable. There would have to be a major backend update to make it viable and I have not heard a word that such a thing is in the works.

  2. #52
    What would a "character revamp" man? Total revamp isn't that necessary for me, but there are some things, that could be improved.
    e.g. :

    male elves looking like porcelain dolls and mostly ugly hairstyles

    male humans: facial hair....who glued the sausage on the man hunters face? Rohirrim NPCs and Beornings facial hair look much better.

    overall: bring the other races into line with Beorning avatars.
    "Does life ever get easy?" "What do you want me to say?" "Lie to me" "Yes, it's terribly simple. The good guys are always stalwart and true. The bad guys are easily distinguished(...)No one ever dies and everybody lives happily ever after." "Liar."

  3. #53
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    Some people here are confusing "character revamp" with "complete engine overhaul". These are not the same thing at all. I doubt a new engine is likely to happen at this stage of the game. If they think they can squeeze money from the player base for another 10 years, then maybe.

  4. #54
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    NO to a graphical revamp of our characters. This should be a very low priority.

    I guarantee this will drive players away (who lose connection with their avatars' identity/looks) and waste valuable development resources.

    You need less store-driven content at endgame, more "comparable incomparables" in high tiers of crafting that serve as entry-level raid gear, and more bug fixes and back end datacenter/server work to reduce lag, stuttering and client crashes.

    Stability, gameplay and function must improve before wide-scale changes to our avatars' models and animations.

  5. #55
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    you have a crystal ball to predict such doom? Wow!

    Wandering Around Arda
    my Lotro blog :)

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by miriadel View Post
    you have a crystal ball to predict such doom? Wow!
    Hey, I'd be happy to be wrong!

    Just that I'm rarely wrong. Pattern recognition is... a thing.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Nzin View Post
    Some people here are confusing "character revamp" with "complete engine overhaul". These are not the same thing at all. I doubt a new engine is likely to happen at this stage of the game. If they think they can squeeze money from the player base for another 10 years, then maybe.
    I am not the least bit confused between the two. I see a character revamp to higher poly models as exacerbating the problems with the ancient engine and a very bad thing for that reason.

  8. #58
    I don't think a character revamp will drive away players. Nor will it bring in but a few new players. It's just not that important. Now if our toons looked like Pitfall Harry....

  9. #59
    There is huge worry about performance if they are doing new animations. Just look ring of fire, absolutely badly optimized skill, luckily LMs don't play in red so instances won't get affected by it...

    I still only expect them to do new face and hair and maybe some run animations. Changing body type to totally new skeleton simply means having 2 sets of armors for each race and each sex.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korandon View Post
    There should NOT be an option of both "old" and "new" characters. Either you make new models or you stick with what's there. People asking for an option don't have the first clue what keeping two different model sets, each having to be made compatible with all game items ( weapons, clothing, mounts, etc. ) AND both having to be compatible in animation ( i.e. player using old model and animations fighting player using new model and animations ) cost in time / manpower. Just go ask EQ/EQ2 lead animator ttobey, who has said on multiple occasions keeping two sets of player models was one of the worst decisions they ever made. Since SSG works with Daybreak now, you'd think they'd already have been told that lesson.

    Facts are this game has far more issues of bigger importance than how your pixel men look. New avatars will bring in some players, who will then leave when they see all the other issues that should have been taken care of first.

    People have hated the avatars and animations since 2007. The time for changing them to make a difference is long in the past.
    Problem with deep sixing the old models is that many people who are playing now will not have the resources to run the game on even the lowest of settings. I'd love to see character models like you see in some console games. But between the connection and the rendering per individual machine you are looking at a massive upgrade to client machines.

    Another game, a long time ago, made models an option. I'm not sure it would work here but an overlay might... if done right (not that it is possible under the current status) Pretty sure *I* would not be able to PC these new models, and not sure about new animations. Didn't someone say that it takes a lot of resources just to add one animated emote? What changed?
    ...
    Sig looked hideous so I sent it to its room. It can come back and
    show off after it has thought about what it did.

  11. #61
    I am strongly opposed to the whole idea of such a revamp under the current circumstances. LOTRO has so many bugs and issues, many of which haven't been addressed for years. And now instead of fixing those game-breaking problems the devs are going to invest their already limited time and resources in fluff. With a great risk of adding even more lag and issues. Why, just why?! Why on earth is fluff considered a bigger priority than dozens of game-breaking issues, broken skills, classes, mechanics, features?! What kind of game do you think will attract more players (or turn off fewer players, for that matter) - one with old but pretty viable char models and animations and fixed bugs and addressed issues or one with new animations that not everyone will like even in the best-case scenario, with lots of old bugs and probably new issues from the revamp itself? Stupid, stupid, stupid idea... SSG, please work on the existing problems instead of creating new ones. That's what LOTRO would really benefit and improve from. Don't try to fix what is not broken, especially in a game with such an old rusty incapable engine. I think all the awesome landscapes in LOTRO since Rohan have already proven it to everyone how unable the engine is to process such beauty and amount of detail.

    I'll be happy if it turns out I'm wrong but I have little hope.
    Last edited by Cirethnyl; Jan 12 2017 at 07:43 AM.

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Korandon View Post
    Just go ask EQ/EQ2 lead animator ttobey, who has said on multiple occasions keeping two sets of player models was one of the worst decisions they ever made. Since SSG works with Daybreak now, you'd think they'd already have been told that lesson.
    back in 2006(?) SOE/Everquest 2 explained their reasoning for having two sets of character models was that while the original models appealed to the North American/European mindset, they felt they needed to introduce the newer set of models ("inspired by Anime") in order to capture/expand market interest and player base of east Asia.

    I sure hope that SSG isn't looking to repeat THAT mistake.....

    "The world weighs on my shoulders, but what am I to do? You sometimes drive me crazy, but I worry about you. I know it makes no difference to what you're going through, but I see the tip of the iceberg, and I worry about you"

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeirOfNumenor View Post
    back in 2006(?) SOE/Everquest 2 explained their reasoning for having two sets of character models was that while the original models appealed to the North American/European mindset, they felt they needed to introduce the newer set of models ("inspired by Anime") in order to capture/expand market interest and player base of east Asia.

    I sure hope that SSG isn't looking to repeat THAT mistake.....

    I don't think so cause Lotro is based off Tolkien's work on Lord of the rings, and none of it is Asian really, so i really doubt that be inspired by Anime... i don't think they go far from the lore doing that
    Pontin Level 105 Hobbit Burglar Kinship Second Breakfast Crickhollow Server
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  14. #64
    I would love to see more choices in hairstyles. Someone tried to explain to me once that there was a technical? problem with long hair but if they can fix that my elf would really love it! Also I would like to be able to change my body shape after creation (my female Beorning looks too slim but is far too advanced now to restart). Perhaps some tinkering with facial hair too. My dwarves look strange with some of the hair choices. The beards don't fit the face properly.

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirethnyl View Post
    I am strongly opposed to the whole idea of such a revamp under the current circumstances. LOTRO has so many bugs and issues, many of which haven't been addressed for years. And now instead of fixing those game-breaking issues the devs are going to invest their already limited time and resources in fluff. With a great risk of adding even more lag and issues. Why, just why?! Why on earth is fluff considered a bigger priority than dozens of game-breaking issues, broken skills, classes, mechanics, features?! What kind of game do you think will attract more players (or turn off less players, for that matter) - one with old but pretty viable char models and animations and fixed bugs and addressed issues or one with new animations that not everyone will like even in the best-case scenario, with lots of old bugs and probably new issues from the revamp itself? Stupid, stupid, stupid idea... SSG, please work on the existing problems instead of creating new ones. That's what LOTRO would really benefit and improve from. Don't try to fix what is not broken, especially in a game with such an old rusty incapable engine. I think all the awesome lanscapes in LOTRO since Rohan have already proven it to everyone how incapable the engine is to process such beauty and amount of detail.

    I'll be happy if it turns out I'm wrong but I have little hope.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^
    "There is always hope." ~ Aragorn

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormtower View Post
    NO to a graphical revamp of our characters. This should be a very low priority.

    I guarantee this will drive players away (who lose connection with their avatars' identity/looks) and waste valuable development resources.

    You need less store-driven content at endgame, more "comparable incomparables" in high tiers of crafting that serve as entry-level raid gear, and more bug fixes and back end datacenter/server work to reduce lag, stuttering and client crashes.

    Stability, gameplay and function must improve before wide-scale changes to our avatars' models and animations.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^AND THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Especially the part about performance.

    Since the release of MT lots of people with modern gaming rigs are running the game on dx9 with medium-low settings and sometimes even with frills and other stuff disabled.

    Devs, please don't waste you time on fluff. (Like you did when frills were added to the old regions.)

    Improved performance should be top priority.
    "There is always hope." ~ Aragorn

  17. #67
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    it's a waste of time to YOU. YOU think it is a waste of time and resources. A lot of players like fluff, sorry to break it to you, and actually fluff does not impact any gameplay, stat wise and mechanic wise. Instead of saying a generic "fix things, improve performance", tell them what they should prioritize first. But other poeple will want different fixes, and again you'll say to not waste time with the things you don't care about. I could say building a raid was a waste of resources, because said resources could have been used to "fix other things and improve performance" instead of creating something new. And then you'll have angry players who say nothing new ever happens, and angry raiders who would jump at me for calling what they like a waste of time. The lag in Minas Tirith and the new region has been there for god knows how long, have resources from the new regions fixed such problems? No, not yet. Saying "fix performance" too is generic since lag and crashes depend by more things than one point. And I did change my stance, myself. I'd be happy if they do something just with hair at this point, because the current hairstyle looks are just plain ugly. Better hair texture, or a cut polish that doesn't make it look like a blob on your head. Just that and I'll be contented.

    Also, don't try to shove the whole thing down with the fluff excuse. That's old. Cosmetics in the store are fluff for example, and players spend money on them. For main characters and for alts. Money means resources. As if an improvement of characters, just hairstyles if they can focus on one thing only about this topic, will syphon every single penny and devs dedicated to the game and not leave any for other departments...

    And perhaps I am getting too emotionally invested in this, but I am really tired of people who want so strongly to shove down new ideas like this because "fluff is a waste, it is never important and resources should go to other things".
    Last edited by miriadel; Jan 12 2017 at 08:41 AM.

    Wandering Around Arda
    my Lotro blog :)

  18. #68
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    to me, character revamp is totally unnecessary, just like the whole shift+C stuff.
    I prefer content and bugfixes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirarian View Post
    I think the whole revamp the characters thing is a waste of time and resources.

    I would much rather have bug fixes. Skill tree revamps. New content that is less store driven.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nzin View Post
    Maybe others feel differently, but I think there are far too many things wrong with this game for them to be wasting time and resources on a character revamp.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarlywyn View Post
    IMO there are more important priorities for LOTRO than a character revamp.

    As far as it being associated with the expansion, I'm sorry but this isn't going to factor in whether or not I buy the Mordor expansion - everyone will get it regardless of whether they get the expansion or not.

    As for it attracting new players, potential customers have to know LOTRO exists first.
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfNothing View Post
    NO NO NO and NO

    I am horrified at the option to maintain two systems.
    We know that they cannot even handle the fact, that medium armor needs to come with two main stats (might for beorns, agility for all others)
    Because it is too difficult to provide two sets of medium armor, they opted for vit or fate instead of main stat.
    See what this means long-term for two systems of avatars and animations?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nigolas View Post
    IMHO, they shouldn't do character revamp in the foreseeable future.

    1. Don't fix what isn't broken. Characters are still fine, their appearance matches well the graphical style of the landscape. Most people will probably identify strongly with the look of characters they developed over the years and hence would not accept changed facial features.
    2. As pointed out by others, development resources are better spent elsewhere.
    3. It took them seven years to finally deliver bug-free, smooth character animations (remember this bug, anyone?). Let's please not reiterate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laerien View Post
    It should not happen.

    There could be improvements, like more barber options but no revamps. No more fancy stuff the engine can't handle, thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by bucko39 View Post
    My concern is that this <supposed> avatar revamp will be SSG's main selling point for the upcoming expansion.
    Meaning, a lot of the work that should be getting done (performance issues, in-depth class balancing, PvP, crafting update, etc) will suffer as a result.
    I wish I could say that I trust them to do all of it with determined efficiency...but, sadly, that's just not the case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormtower View Post
    NO to a graphical revamp of our characters. This should be a very low priority.

    I guarantee this will drive players away (who lose connection with their avatars' identity/looks) and waste valuable development resources.

    You need less store-driven content at endgame, more "comparable incomparables" in high tiers of crafting that serve as entry-level raid gear, and more bug fixes and back end datacenter/server work to reduce lag, stuttering and client crashes.

    Stability, gameplay and function must improve before wide-scale changes to our avatars' models and animations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirethnyl View Post
    I am strongly opposed to the whole idea of such a revamp under the current circumstances. LOTRO has so many bugs and issues, many of which haven't been addressed for years. And now instead of fixing those game-breaking problems the devs are going to invest their already limited time and resources in fluff. With a great risk of adding even more lag and issues. Why, just why?! Why on earth is fluff considered a bigger priority than dozens of game-breaking issues, broken skills, classes, mechanics, features?! What kind of game do you think will attract more players (or turn off fewer players, for that matter) - one with old but pretty viable char models and animations and fixed bugs and addressed issues or one with new animations that not everyone will like even in the best-case scenario, with lots of old bugs and probably new issues from the revamp itself? Stupid, stupid, stupid idea... SSG, please work on the existing problems instead of creating new ones. That's what LOTRO would really benefit and improve from. Don't try to fix what is not broken, especially in a game with such an old rusty incapable engine. I think all the awesome landscapes in LOTRO since Rohan have already proven it to everyone how unable the engine is to process such beauty and amount of detail.

    I'll be happy if it turns out I'm wrong but I have little hope.
    These. Said before and better than me.
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  19. #69
    What, forum posted my post to wrong thread..

  20. #70
    Make them anatomically correct.

  21. #71
    As a 'filthy casual' and man who reads many MMORPG sites and forums i say YES to revamp. Because this is one of the most often reasons why people uninstall the game right after its installing. I think it could be profitable.

    What should be changed?
    1. Faces, beards and hairstyles.
    2. Elf male idle animation.
    3. May be hands and feet as also visible without cloth

    I think those are enough and wouldn't take much resources.

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by miriadel View Post
    it's a waste of time to YOU. YOU think it is a waste of time and resources. A lot of players like fluff, sorry to break it to you, and actually fluff does not impact any gameplay, stat wise and mechanic wise. Instead of saying a generic "fix things, improve performance", tell them what they should prioritize first. But other poeple will want different fixes, and again you'll say to not waste time with the things you don't care about. I could say building a raid was a waste of resources, because said resources could have been used to "fix other things and improve performance" instead of creating something new. And then you'll have angry players who say nothing new ever happens, and angry raiders who would jump at me for calling what they like a waste of time. The lag in Minas Tirith and the new region has been there for god knows how long, have resources from the new regions fixed such problems? No, not yet. Saying "fix performance" too is generic since lag and crashes depend by more things than one point. And I did change my stance, myself. I'd be happy if they do something just with hair at this point, because the current hairstyle looks are just plain ugly. Better hair texture, or a cut polish that doesn't make it look like a blob on your head. Just that and I'll be contented.

    Also, don't try to shove the whole thing down with the fluff excuse. That's old. Cosmetics in the store are fluff for example, and players spend money on them. For main characters and for alts. Money means resources. As if an improvement of characters, just hairstyles if they can focus on one thing only about this topic, will syphon every single penny and devs dedicated to the game and not leave any for other departments...

    And perhaps I am getting too emotionally invested in this, but I am really tired of people who want so strongly to shove down new ideas like this because "fluff is a waste, it is never important and resources should go to other things".
    Don't overreact on elitist trolls, they are arrogant and selfish as usual . Casuals are 'filthy', fluff is nothing important. I wonder is Lore fluff or not? Look's like fluff => not important => lets make the game with flying mounts, dragons, robots and laser sharks. Yes? No. Fluff IS important. this is what makes Lotro to be LotR'ish.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderv View Post
    Don't overreact on elitist trolls, they are arrogant and selfish as usual . Casuals are 'filthy', fluff is nothing important. I wonder is Lore fluff or not? Look's like fluff => not important => lets make the game with flying mounts, dragons, robots and laser sharks. Yes? No. Fluff IS important. this is what makes Lotro to be LotR'ish.
    Oh, don't get us wrong. A lot of us would be quite happy to have a character revamp...if the circumstances were different from the current situation. It's not the most pressing thing to address, it could cause issues running the game on older PC's and it could chomp up valuable resources to maintain (I.E. The mythical toggle button which is apparently some kind of solution to people who don't want to change avatars). As far as updating things go, typically you start with core gameplay and then work on fluff when everything else has been addressed. If the fluff was really what mattered to you, you would be playing other prettier games...but you're still here because something other than the fluff is keeping you here.
    ~ I tank with a Beorning, my opinion is invalid. ~

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    As far as updating things go, typically you start with core gameplay and then work on fluff when everything else has been addressed.
    The problem with MMORPGs is their core gameplay work never ends. At least i don't know a MMORPG with core gameplay work done. Everywhere it's ongoing process. So 'gameplay first fluff after' paradigm is wrong because 'after' will never happen.
    If the fluff was really what mattered to you, you would be playing other prettier games...but you're still here because something other than the fluff is keeping you here.
    Other prettier LotR MMORPGs (or RPGs at least) do not exist.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderv View Post
    The problem with MMORPGs is their core gameplay work never ends. At least i don't know a MMORPG with core gameplay work done. Everywhere it's ongoing process. So 'gameplay first fluff after' paradigm is wrong because 'after' will never happen.
    Character revamp doesn't just fall into the "fluff" category. For it to be done properly it requires a whole lot of work behind the scenes. "Fluff" gets made because it's quick and easy and never needs to be touched again, a revamp is not quick and easy and needs to be continually tweaked. Don't worry, you will always get your fluff but what you are asking for here is not fluff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderv View Post
    Other prettier LotR MMORPGs (or RPGs at least) do not exist.
    So I guess the world/lore is the important bit for you and visuals aren't a deal-breaker.
    ~ I tank with a Beorning, my opinion is invalid. ~

 

 
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