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  1. #1

    An open letter to the new Standing Stone team

    This is a LONG-time fan of LOTRO reaching out to the dev team, which i've noticed has been very active and visible in the forums today with the big news. I'd like to say congratulations for your massive accomplishment in shedding the chains of awful Warner Brothers.

    So here's my plea, with that said:

    Lord of the Rings Online used to be the best MMO the genre has ever seen. It used to have the best group content and end game I've ever seen. I used to sign on every day and find something to admire about this game. I could tell every one of you on the LOTRO staff put their whole hearts into this game. Sure, you sometimes faced the issues that come along with being a smaller MMO team, like longer development cycles and bugs, but I always forgave you for it.

    Then something happened. I want to say it was around the release of Riders of Rohan. There were no raids. Not true raids. We got the epic battles, but there was hardly any reason to even get geared up and take the game seriously anymore. The content was terribly easy and boring. I would sign on for a few hours a week and get bored of the game. The passion was gone, and it was obvious. I went from playing this game every day since the days of Shadows of Angmar, to finally uninstalling the game for the first time in years. And I know that this is something that happened for many, many people. The thing that always broke my heart was that I could tell you didn't want the game to turn out this way. I remember constantly hearing promises of T2C, progressional raid content being worked on, but we never got it.

    The point i'm getting to here is that, as the newly founded Standing Stone Games, you have an opportunity here. The news will get out to all of the players that you lost that there has been a shift in the life cycle of LOTRO. I urge you; nay, I BEG you, to take this chance to revitalize LOTRO to what it used to be. Give us new Tier 2 Challenge progressional raids that have exclusive gear. Give us Ost Dunhoth and Tower of Orthanc levels of progression. I'm talking gear that takes months of dedication and raiding to get. Give us challenging, fun 3-man and 6-man content. Give us some sort of end game that isn't grinding the same quests over and over each day. Nobody wants that and I think you know it. The problem with level 105 end-game is that sure, you may have released decent content with Gondor, but the gear you get from these instances isn't exclusive to the difficult content. Give us the raid token or currency system back. I promise you that if you return LOTRO to the way it was between level 50 and level 75, you will see a surge of players come back to the game. There are SO many players watching from the sidelines hoping and praying that LOTRO can be that game they used to love.

    We don't want new festivals. We don't want constant level cap increases that force us to level through uninteresting, repetitive content. We don't want more crafting and daily quests that get you the best gear in the game where raids and challenging group content should. The kinds of players who enjoy this kind of content will be pleased by anything you give them without much effort on your part at all. Give us the old LOTRO and do somewhat of a reboot of this once-great game and you will be SO successful.

  2. #2
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    Me, I want to see more landscapes and storylines by Made of Lions. And Far Harad.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imsoclastic View Post
    This is a LONG-time fan of LOTRO reaching out to the dev team, which i've noticed has been very active and visible in the forums today with the big news. I'd like to say congratulations for your massive accomplishment in shedding the chains of awful Warner Brothers.

    So here's my plea, with that said:

    Lord of the Rings Online used to be the best MMO the genre has ever seen. It used to have the best group content and end game I've ever seen. I used to sign on every day and find something to admire about this game. I could tell every one of you on the LOTRO staff put their whole hearts into this game. Sure, you sometimes faced the issues that come along with being a smaller MMO team, like longer development cycles and bugs, but I always forgave you for it.

    Then something happened. I want to say it was around the release of Riders of Rohan. There were no raids. Not true raids. We got the epic battles, but there was hardly any reason to even get geared up and take the game seriously anymore. The content was terribly easy and boring. I would sign on for a few hours a week and get bored of the game. The passion was gone, and it was obvious. I went from playing this game every day since the days of Shadows of Angmar, to finally uninstalling the game for the first time in years. And I know that this is something that happened for many, many people. The thing that always broke my heart was that I could tell you didn't want the game to turn out this way. I remember constantly hearing promises of T2C, progressional raid content being worked on, but we never got it.

    The point i'm getting to here is that, as the newly founded Standing Stone Games, you have an opportunity here. The news will get out to all of the players that you lost that there has been a shift in the life cycle of LOTRO. I urge you; nay, I BEG you, to take this chance to revitalize LOTRO to what it used to be. Give us new Tier 2 Challenge progressional raids that have exclusive gear. Give us Ost Dunhoth and Tower of Orthanc levels of progression. I'm talking gear that takes months of dedication and raiding to get. Give us challenging, fun 3-man and 6-man content. Give us some sort of end game that isn't grinding the same quests over and over each day. Nobody wants that and I think you know it. The problem with level 105 end-game is that sure, you may have released decent content with Gondor, but the gear you get from these instances isn't exclusive to the difficult content. Give us the raid token or currency system back. I promise you that if you return LOTRO to the way it was between level 50 and level 75, you will see a surge of players come back to the game. There are SO many players watching from the sidelines hoping and praying that LOTRO can be that game they used to love.

    We don't want new festivals. We don't want constant level cap increases that force us to level through uninteresting, repetitive content. We don't want more crafting and daily quests that get you the best gear in the game where raids and challenging group content should. The kinds of players who enjoy this kind of content will be pleased by anything you give them without much effort on your part at all. Give us the old LOTRO and do somewhat of a reboot of this once-great game and you will be SO successful.
    How long has it been since you logged in last? We have a new raid, we have new 3 and 6 man instances. The team that is currently working on lotro, based on what was stated by Cordovan, is the same team that's with the new dev company. In your opinion you want raid progression that takes "months of dedication" to achieve gear? in my opinion, that sounds like a terrible idea. Do you really want another set of currency to go with the endless supply we have now?

  4. #4
    The thing is, we will get those things either way. People who just play for landscape and story content are not what keeps the community engaged and interested. Those people will get what they want out of the game no matter what the devs do.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Amennator View Post
    How long has it been since you logged in last? We have a new raid, we have new 3 and 6 man instances. The team that is currently working on lotro, based on what was stated by Cordovan, is the same team that's with the new dev company.
    I just came back a few weeks ago. Yes, I know we have new content, but there's really not much of a reason to run that new raid. I want to see raids where the gear is gated by gear tokens that you roll on like Ost Dunhoth and Tower of Orthanc. I want getting best in slot gear to be an actual accomplishment of skill, not random chance. You were a GOD if you had full level 65 OD armor back in the day.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imsoclastic View Post
    The thing is, we will get those things either way. People who just play for landscape and story content are not what keeps the community engaged and interested. Those people will get what they want out of the game no matter what the devs do.
    Oh! you are so generous
    Please ignore my ridiculous running animation.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laerien View Post
    Oh! you are so generous
    He's right though.

    Back when expansions and major content releases always concentrated on group content at endgame, there was still a "casual" community who enjoyed other aspects of the game. They just didn't feel entitled to raid-quality gear in exchange for solo-style monotonous grinding.

    And the game was better for it. Even when I wasn't raiding, I always found that the existence of raids and the raiding community out there added a depth to the game and a sense to its purpose that is totally lacking in the eras of this game that are devoted to "daily grinds" and such.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imsoclastic View Post

    We don't want new festivals.
    Speak for yourself!! Seriously though you sound like a player that hasn't been around for awhile, the type who says they love the game but stopped playing it. SoA days are over, they were great but they are done.
    "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
    "Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens."
    J.R.R. Tolkien

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Imsoclastic View Post
    The thing is, we will get those things either way. People who just play for landscape and story content are not what keeps the community engaged and interested. Those people will get what they want out of the game no matter what the devs do.
    And it never came to your mind that there will be less landscape and questing if they produce raids? Actually, i know several players that just play lotro to do solostuff. questing, exploring, etc. So yea, that does keep people engaged. And not everyone plays 30 hours a week. If you only play 2-3 hours per week, you can always have something to do with quests. maybe sometimes switch to an alt, but your main will not be bored much.
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Gründer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imsoclastic View Post
    I just came back a few weeks ago. Yes, I know we have new content, but there's really not much of a reason to run that new raid. I want to see raids where the gear is gated by gear tokens that you roll on like Ost Dunhoth and Tower of Orthanc. I want getting best in slot gear to be an actual accomplishment of skill, not random chance. You were a GOD if you had full level 65 OD armor back in the day.
    We need more people wanting to group up, not less. You gate gear behind a t2c token grind you might not find "all those people" that want that queuing up for raids. The player base has changed over the years and randomness does suck but randomness coupled with months of grinding special tokens sucks even harder.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    And it never came to your mind that there will be less landscape and questing if they produce raids?
    And yet back in the day we used to get both. If SSG has both more freedom and more access to the game's revenue, that could possibly be the case again.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin View Post
    Even when I wasn't raiding, I always found that the existence of raids and the raiding community out there added a depth to the game and a sense to its purpose that is totally lacking in the eras of this game that are devoted to "daily grinds" and such.
    This is so true. I wish I could say I want the same thing as the OP, but there are just so many things that feel wrong right now I can't help but think sinking all their resources into another raid would be a grave mistake.
    “ädvëntürës ärë nöt äll pönÿ-rïdës ïn mäÿ-sünshïnë.”

  13. #13
    or they could use their new freedom and create a really epic battle at the black gate. where really thousands of enemies fight each other and the player directly in the middle. I dont see big special enemies there, not really bosses. Mostly just random orcs, haradrim, khundolar, other humans... Doesnt even need to be an epic battle in terms of lotro, siege weapons make no sense anyway there. still, its a big battle with huge numbers of fighters. That cant really be a classic instance. If anything, it might be some kind of survival instance like barrow downs... but much faster and with much more enemies... hold the line!
    I just dont see classic-instance bosses showing up there to be killed by players like in pelennor battle. although that battle was the greatest epic ever till now. black gate is even less about bosses and heroic stuff, its just a massive massacre, where the battle goes in different directions many times. i see both elements of big battles and skirmishes there. it even makes sense to have that battle in several groupsizes and fighting together with soldiers is obvious.
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Gründer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Imsoclastic View Post
    OP
    The raid is there. What you are missing is the community and raiding culture. You cannot spend years meticulously undermining and killing off raiders and expect the community to remain the same. Turbine did too much harm, it would take an equally long time and much dedication to restore the game to what you're talking about. Not to mention that you might be experiencing the same thing, but you will never be the same as when you started out as a raider with your friends in a great time of your life. I was a raider a long time ago, but I barely touched the new raid because I don't have my friends here any more and I don't have the patience to put up with new kins and new people. I also got older.
    “ädvëntürës ärë nöt äll pönÿ-rïdës ïn mäÿ-sünshïnë.”

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin View Post
    He's right though.

    Back when expansions and major content releases always concentrated on group content at endgame, there was still a "casual" community who enjoyed other aspects of the game. They just didn't feel entitled to raid-quality gear in exchange for solo-style monotonous grinding.

    And the game was better for it. Even when I wasn't raiding, I always found that the existence of raids and the raiding community out there added a depth to the game and a sense to its purpose that is totally lacking in the eras of this game that are devoted to "daily grinds" and such.
    Agreed. Raids/Raiders = depth. What added depth and purpose for me was mastering all crafts and crafting guilds. I don't like it that I can't craft armor or jewelry that doesn't require essences, that food is not needed, and that the 'only' useful itema left to craft are the new essences. In my opinion, everyone is losing with this 'eternal grind' system.
    From f2p to p2p: nothing here is accidental
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeebPlayer View Post
    This is so true. I wish I could say I want the same thing as the OP, but there are just so many things that feel wrong right now I can't help but think sinking all their resources into another raid would be a grave mistake.
    ^^This.

    Fix the still persistent performance problems before even thinking about developing a new raid.
    Otherwise, what's the point?

  17. #17

    Maybe the end is near

    I think over the next few weeks or months we shall see what is in store. But the impression you get from being passed around from company(Studio) to company is not looking good. I have never heard of Daybreak games or for that matter Standing Stones. What little I have found is not really good info either. Both are "indie" studios,, pushed out or sold out from other companys. Any way I hope for the Best for LOTRO.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imsoclastic View Post
    I just came back a few weeks ago. Yes, I know we have new content, but there's really not much of a reason to run that new raid. I want to see raids where the gear is gated by gear tokens that you roll on like Ost Dunhoth and Tower of Orthanc. I want getting best in slot gear to be an actual accomplishment of skill, not random chance. You were a GOD if you had full level 65 OD armor back in the day.
    It's exactly like this, you roll for tokens that are guaranteed. T2 gear is only available on T2CM and class items as well and golden bracelets and best morale essences.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeebPlayer View Post
    This is so true. I wish I could say I want the same thing as the OP, but there are just so many things that feel wrong right now I can't help but think sinking all their resources into another raid would be a grave mistake.
    I would say this is very much false assumption. It's clear that there is relatively really high interest to raiding even from players who have joined us during dry period of the game. And in generally servers been way more busier now that there has been classic instances to do than only BBs/solo dailies. And judging by login numbers this year have managed to stabilize constant bleeding of players for first time in years, also if we look this years highest peak it was around when raid got released.. It no doubt will take hit during 2017 winter and spring until the expansion since it doesn't look like we get more instances but if mordor has more of instances and raid goodies we can expect healthy and active community even in future.
    Last edited by siipperi; Dec 19 2016 at 08:31 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom58 View Post
    I have never heard of Daybreak games or for that matter Standing Stones. What little I have found is not really good info either. Both are "indie" studios,, pushed out or sold out from other companys. Any way I hope for the Best for LOTRO.
    Daybreak Games is not a new "indie" company.

    From wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daybreak_Game_Company):

    "Daybreak Game Company, LLC (formerly Sony Online Entertainment) is an American video game developer and video game publisher. It is a division of Columbus Nova. They are known for owning the franchise EverQuest, EverQuest II, The Matrix Online, PlanetSide, Star Wars Galaxies, Clone Wars: Adventures, Free Realms, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, DC Universe Online, PlanetSide 2, H1Z1: Just Survive, and H1Z1: King of the Kill.

    In 2008, Daybreak Game Company’s game EverQuest was honored at the 59th Annual Technology & Engineering Emmy Awards for advancing the art form of massively multiplayer online role-playing games (MMORPGs).

    On February 2, 2015, Sony sold Sony Online Entertainment to Columbus Nova, who renamed it Daybreak Game Company."

    Standing Stones is a new company founded for the LOTRO & D&DO devs. Its new, but the people forming it are the same devs working for Turbine.

    Sergio :-)
    Moved from Riddermark to Landroval on 2/10/1015!

  20. #20
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    I didn't start playing LOTRO until it went F2P (because I hadn't heard of it before then), but in the 4+ years I have played it I haven't once participated in a raid. The few times I have engaged in group content, people did nothing but bicker and blame each other for failures and it completely ruined my enjoyment of the game as a whole. I've had dozens of friends come and go from the game, but I keep playing. I keep playing because I enjoy the festivals, I enjoy the depth of the lore that's been tucked into every corner, I enjoy the landscaping which has life to it unlike a lot of other MMOs that feel static or generic, and I enjoy the quests and the NPCs. I play a wide range of games because I stream and promote Extra Life, so I don't commit the hours of a full-time job to just LOTRO -- there is no way I'd enjoy spending that much time grinding for currency for special gear that's just going to become obsolete when they introduce the next grind. Once you have that coveted gear, you either have to make a new challenge with new gear (and thus flush all your time down the drain because you have to grind again) or have something else that offers replay value. I think that replay value is what's important.

    With games becoming more accessible to a wider audience of players, it necessitates making it easier for said wider audience to enjoy the game. I don't think the LOTRO community has as many raid-focused people these days -- whether that's due to management decisions pushing players away over the years or simply from the F2P door being open for more people. Telling the dev team to focus on something so specific isn't going to help them move forward and keep a steady income from a diverse player base. Raids and group content take a long time to produce, and I imagine it would take even longer for a newly-formed indie game studio.
    I can understand your anger at me, but what could you possibly have against the horse I rode in on?



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  21. #21
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    New name, old dogs.
    I m still interesting on Lotro license 2017 !!!
    After server merge and lies about EU servers in Amsterdam, i wont give anything in 2017 until 2018, when license have to be renewed!!!
    I hope a lost EU do/did the same like me already.
    I lost hope in any Lotro devs team.
    Look at that u19.2 random grinds festival/daily/essences.
    No fix classes bug, nothing!!!
    I rather give 50$ to childrens in Boston hospital than to this sh*t, Turbine or SSG.
    Sorry i love Lotro, but i have to point out the sh*t we have/we got.
    "To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supereme excellence.
    Supreme excellence consist in breaking enemys resitance without fighting" Sun Tzu - the Art of War.

  22. #22
    You asked for classic raids. In the last couple years, they have made 2 instance clusters and a full 12 man raid. And this was not a simple Erebor-style raid. This was a full raid just like Ost Dunhoth or whatever you're looking for. You need to come back and support the game NOW if raids are what you want. I frankly don't care about whatever minor complaints you might have with the current raid. If you want them to focus on raids, then get in the game and play it.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by AarawynnP View Post
    I didn't start playing LOTRO until it went F2P (because I hadn't heard of it before then), but in the 4+ years I have played it I haven't once participated in a raid. The few times I have engaged in group content, people did nothing but bicker and blame each other for failures and it completely ruined my enjoyment of the game as a whole. I've had dozens of friends come and go from the game, but I keep playing. I keep playing because I enjoy the festivals, I enjoy the depth of the lore that's been tucked into every corner, I enjoy the landscaping which has life to it unlike a lot of other MMOs that feel static or generic, and I enjoy the quests and the NPCs. I play a wide range of games because I stream and promote Extra Life, so I don't commit the hours of a full-time job to just LOTRO -- there is no way I'd enjoy spending that much time grinding for currency for special gear that's just going to become obsolete when they introduce the next grind. Once you have that coveted gear, you either have to make a new challenge with new gear (and thus flush all your time down the drain because you have to grind again) or have something else that offers replay value. I think that replay value is what's important.

    With games becoming more accessible to a wider audience of players, it necessitates making it easier for said wider audience to enjoy the game. I don't think the LOTRO community has as many raid-focused people these days -- whether that's due to management decisions pushing players away over the years or simply from the F2P door being open for more people. Telling the dev team to focus on something so specific isn't going to help them move forward and keep a steady income from a diverse player base. Raids and group content take a long time to produce, and I imagine it would take even longer for a newly-formed indie game studio.
    Very Well Said.

    No matter how much I dislike the condescending attitude of many raiders and really would not personally miss them if they left, the game benefits most when there is a full range of content for ALL playstyles Raiders and landscape players alike.

  24. #24

    no thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Imsoclastic View Post
    I just came back a few weeks ago. Yes, I know we have new content, but there's really not much of a reason to run that new raid. I want to see raids where the gear is gated by gear tokens that you roll on like Ost Dunhoth and Tower of Orthanc. I want getting best in slot gear to be an actual accomplishment of skill, not random chance. You were a GOD if you had full level 65 OD armor back in the day.
    As a veteran gamer I know how those types of tokens or gear work. You get 3, 6, 12, 25, or 40 people in a group. (yes I got to play some 40 mans on WoW b4 they got rid of them), you have those who have a system of raid points in place and the higher point guys get the loot while the ones who get nothing get to watch while they put in as much effort in the raid as everyone else. Or you work your tail off in an instance only to have some clown who is over geared for the darn thing in the first place take the item you went in there for to begin with, and then rub it in your face as he walks to the nearest vendor and sells that piece of junk that would have been an upgrade for you.

    Thanks but I will pass. I was that person on WoW who ran an instance 8 times and my trinket dropped every time only to be disenchanted in front of me for mats by someone over geared. Then the same person wondered why my heals didn't hit as hard as they should have....gee I wonder. My rolls on most games tend to be around 30-40 max 9 times out of 10. Only when there will be a reroll, do I get a perfect roll only to follow it up with -10. So yeah I have no reason to play the lottery I won't win.

    There is a balance here I have not seen in other games and it is refreshing to see. Just as not everyone does well or enjoys pvp, there are those who don't raid for any number of reasons. Gear should be available to the casual player as well as the hard core raider who can dedicate the time and effort to raiding for as long as it takes. Not all of us have that freedom.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by AprilDawn View Post
    As a veteran gamer I know how those types of tokens or gear work. You get 3, 6, 12, 25, or 40 people in a group. (yes I got to play some 40 mans on WoW b4 they got rid of them), you have those who have a system of raid points in place and the higher point guys get the loot while the ones who get nothing get to watch while they put in as much effort in the raid as everyone else. Or you work your tail off in an instance only to have some clown who is over geared for the darn thing in the first place take the item you went in there for to begin with, and then rub it in your face as he walks to the nearest vendor and sells that piece of junk that would have been an upgrade for you.
    Sounds like you were in a crummy guild and/or did a lot of PUGs and you're still bitter about it. I did a *lot* of 40-mans back in the day in 'vanilla' WoW and with a raid points system in place it was just a matter of doing the work to earn the points. Of course people with more points to spend get the stuff first, they've earned it already and you have to just wait your turn.

    There is a balance here I have not seen in other games and it is refreshing to see. Just as not everyone does well or enjoys pvp, there are those who don't raid for any number of reasons. Gear should be available to the casual player as well as the hard core raider who can dedicate the time and effort to raiding for as long as it takes. Not all of us have that freedom.
    Yup, you sound like a casual with gear envy. When I stopped raiding I didn't expect to get really good gear just for doing solo stuff or instances, because I wouldn't have been earning it. What we have here isn't balance, just pandering to the casual end of the spectrum by a company who know they can't provide the content to sustain a raiding scene.

 

 
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