We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 LastLast
Results 101 to 125 of 215
  1. #101
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,596
    Quote Originally Posted by Starina View Post
    Keep that specific dog as a raid drop, I don't mind that at all, but other dogs need introducing, some maybe through festivals, others via the store.

    Overall, for every specific raid drop, whether it binds or not, there should be items equally nice, for other players to obtain through differing means, so that we all, dependent on our preferences and or forced upon us circumstances.. have a chance to enjoy the game.
    Oops, my mistake there. Have been so many threads involving complaints about the dog and such that they have all become muddled in my head. Still, several of the people in here have asked for the tamed hound to either be removed from the raid or placed in the store and that demand is pretty silly considering the Tamed Hound isn't actually all that difficult to get for a non-raider, just need to pay some gold. Technically there are other cosmetic pets that are equally nice obtained from different ways already, they just aren't dogs. I just find it tiring that the "anti-raider" players are using this thread as well to campaign in favour of removing even more items from the raid, you yourself have been quite reasonable, they have not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheaezra View Post
    And please add a non-barghest looking non-tiny pet dog or the Tamed Hound to the Store too, like everyone's been asking for.
    ~ The devs don't want to balance classes, what chance did I have ~

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wales, United Kingdom
    Posts
    11,895
    Quote Originally Posted by Starina View Post

    I have absolutely no issue with the Tamed Hound staying raid exclusive. I'd not even mind if it would be made bind on acquire, as other cosmetic raid items have been for like forever.
    It should absolutely be made bind on acquire. If it's going to be deemed as a raid exclusive reward (you know, where one must raid, to gain the raid reward), then that's how it should be. In the raid, and totally exclusive to only people that do the raid.

    Else, all it is . . . is just another easy item that can be bought for gold. Nothing unique about it, certainly devalued as far as recognition for completing the raid goes, just a money spinner, and a magnet to gold farmers. I'm surprised that Turbine even considered it to be honest. Anything remotely increasing the chances of gold farming used to bring out a ban hammer, but then, the Store changed, and items can now be purchased from store and mailed to others - if there is enough gold floating around of course.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.


  3. #103
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Beautiful Éire (Ireland)
    Posts
    405
    @ YamydeAragon
    I fully agree with you. I find they could have done a better job on the teeth, but hey, skeletal team, I keep hearing.
    Should though certainly not remain the only dog in the game, skeletal team or not...


    @ Daenith
    + 1oooooooooooo :'( :'( :'(

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Laerien View Post
    You speak of narrow minds but the whole point of your post is that you are not willing/unable to accept that others don't play the game the same way as you. It seems to me that you may be annoyed by the possibility that these pets could be available to everyone, otherwise I cannot explain your first hilarious attempt to compare Solo with forced dependancy on a group; then your stubbornness to recognize that group dependancy is not even comparable.

    Finally, you want the festival fluff in the raid also?, no problem. Signed. I'm not selfish, I understand that people may want to have an alternative option.
    Let me clarify that I do not see a problem with adding some dog pet to the store or to a rep barter NPC or something else. Actually I can perfectly understand that OP doesn't like the fact that a common animal like a dog is raid-exclusive. My problem is with people like you who are generally against the concept of content-type-exclusive rewards. This is simply against my fundamental understanding of how completing content should be rewarded in MMORPGs. It's really that simple: different content should reward players with different items. If you want to get ALL rewards, you'll have to do ALL types of content. Additionally, doing content which involves more time commitment, more thinking, more knowledge about the game, etc. should reward players more than content not involving said aspects. Your understanding is that every player should be able to choose what type of content he/she wants to do and he/she will still get ALL possible rewards. And that's where I strongly disagree with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Yet, you're not willing to pick flowers for raid upgrades. Interesting. I bet you did though.
    Absolutely true. I wasn't really willing to do it but I did it nevertheless because I wanted the rewards. And yes, I do think that rewarding flower picking (a non-combat activity) with BiS gear (specifically designed to perform better in combat) is a very questionable design decision (why? read my first paragraph) but I did not come to the forums and rant about how I am not able to pick flowers. Placing the only cosmetic dog (as already mentioned: a "common" animal) as raid exclusive reward isn't the most clever desing decision either hence my sympathy for the OP. But here is the thing: I did participate in the flower activities even though I don't enjoy it as much as raiding because I wanted the rewards. I do ALL content if I want ALL rewards. So thanks for proving my point, I guess.
    Our friend Laerien wants ALL rewards but is unwilling to try something new. Seems like he enjoys writing hundreds of rage posts on the forums against group-exclusive rewards more than working on his gear/skill in game and participating in social interaction in a multiplayer game. Enough said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirarian View Post
    So I am [...] because my disability makes me a HUGE liability in any group content huh.
    I did not mean to offend anyone who chooses to play solo for whatever reason. Please read my (admittedly rather harsh) statement in context to what I quoted. It was a direct response to Laerien. Also note that I completely acknowledge the fact that having a disabilty is indeed one of the very few absolutely legitimate reasons to say one is UNABLE to participate in group content.

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Behind you
    Posts
    1,769
    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    This thread itself is mostly about the Tamed Hound being added to the store. That kind of thing just devalues the current item for no real reason.
    I see what you're saying. But at the same time I don't think a dog, with as many players have been asking for one, for many years, should finally at last appear - but only as a rare drop on a high level raid. That's really kinda like a slap in the face, and I think that's what the OP was getting at.

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wales, United Kingdom
    Posts
    11,895
    Quote Originally Posted by DisplTru View Post
    Let me clarify that I do not see a problem with adding some dog pet to the store or to a rep barter NPC or something else. Actually I can perfectly understand that OP doesn't like the fact that a common animal like a dog is raid-exclusive. My problem is with people like you who are generally against the concept of content-type-exclusive rewards. This is simply against my fundamental understanding of how completing content should be rewarded in MMORPGs. It's really that simple: different content should reward players with different items. If you want to get ALL rewards, you'll have to do ALL types of content. Additionally, doing content which involves more time commitment, more thinking, more knowledge about the game, etc. should reward players more than content not involving said aspects. Your understanding is that every player should be able to choose what type of content he/she wants to do and he/she will still get ALL possible rewards. And that's where I strongly disagree with you.


    Absolutely true. I wasn't really willing to do it but I did it nevertheless because I wanted the rewards. And yes, I do think that rewarding flower picking (a non-combat activity) with BiS gear (specifically designed to perform better in combat) is a very questionable design decision (why? read my first paragraph) but I did not come to the forums and rant about how I am not able to pick flowers. Placing the only cosmetic dog (as already mentioned: a "common" animal) as raid exclusive reward isn't the most clever desing decision either hence my sympathy for the OP. But here is the thing: I did participate in the flower activities even though I don't enjoy it as much as raiding because I wanted the rewards. I do ALL content if I want ALL rewards. So thanks for proving my point, I guess.
    Our friend Laerien wants ALL rewards but is unwilling to try something new. Seems like he enjoys writing hundreds of rage posts on the forums against group-exclusive rewards more than working on his gear/skill in game and participating in social interaction in a multiplayer game. Enough said.


    I did not mean to offend anyone who chooses to play solo for whatever reason. Please read my (admittedly rather harsh) statement in context to what I quoted. It was a direct response to Laerien. Also note that I completely acknowledge the fact that having a disabilty is indeed one of the very few absolutely legitimate reasons to say one is UNABLE to participate in group content.
    No, you didn't come to the forums and rant about how you couldn't pick flowers, you just went out and picked flowers. You did however, come to the forums and rant that Turbine shouldn't have put the reward you wanted, behind content, that you would rather have not done. That's exactly the same as a casual player ranting about Turbine putting a dog in a raid, that they would rather not do. Just in case you missed it.

    and yes, your comment did offend people. It offended me, and it doesn't even apply to me, being I'm not even a strictly casual player. It was offensive to just witness it.
    Treat others as you do your best pictures, and place them in their best light.


  7. #107
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Beautiful Éire (Ireland)
    Posts
    405
    @ Joedangod
    Apologies accepted, and I know some subjects can lead to heated discussion. The group versus solo debate has been going on for ages, which I personally find sad. As players we should acknowledge our differing preferences and circumstances, and jointly pressure gaming companies on getting it right for our varying needs and tastes. There is no better or worse way, as in how we enjoy the game. All ways are equally valid, but when one side gets things, the others don't, then also the side getting stuff, should rise to the issue and say 'we want for the others to get stuff too, that's only fair'. If humans would do that, just imagine what a nice real world we'd have to live in...


    @ Arnenna
    Agreed, and it is worrying that Turbine seems to find the direction they are taking, okay, while same time (at least as it seems to me) ignore other avenues to make money, which would not cause this much upset within the community.

  8. #108
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,596
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    The answer to this is very very simple. You do deserve them.

    However, that worth becomes subject to scrutiny, when a person that raids, deems a person that plays more casually, as undeserving of cool and unique rewards for their playstyle. Which is the case in the two threads circulating at the moment. I'm not saying you do that, because there are many, that don't. But, there are those that do, and they do it in such a degrading way, it opens up a battle field.

    You must be able to see that.

    If by unique, you mean exclusive, then sure, make them exclusive, by making them bind on acquire. Then you will have a valid argument when you play on "unique". They way you speak of them, it comes over as if you regard them as some kind of token, a token to show raid completion, challenge beaten, recognition for effort expended, i.e. a raider reward, for doing a raid. They aren't that, the way they are now though, because anyone can display one. They are not unique. A trophy, that drops in the raid and binds to the player would be unique. E.g. Unwelcome mat, Draigoch's fireplace. When we see those, we know, the player/kinship did the raids to get them.

    I dread to think how Turbine are taking all this feedback. Either they're having a bloody good laugh, or they now find themselves between a rock and a hardplace with everything coming out into the open. People are having their eyes opened, and catching on to some of the player driven systems running in the background, and it's not that pretty a sight for them.

    This is what happens when a person that raids, steps up and starts making demands that Turbine should not give casual players what they deem them unfit to have. They fight back, and little things, such as an ugly dog gated behind a 12 man run, become up for grabs in argument. Because, it's always a two way street. It's probably something they didn't much think about before a person that raids, called them out as unworthy of the rewards that Turbine put in the game for them.

    You talk about the poster you responded to, as if they are waging some war against a group of players, that happen to play a different way to them. Maybe you're right, and they are doing that (or maybe they're not), but you probably don't realise, that some people view you (and others), exactly the same way.
    No raider has ever said that casual players don't deserve anything nice. The flower jewellery thread is purely about the fact that the raid jewellery was made obsolete in favour of flower picked gear, a problem that wouldn't have been caused if the flower jewellery had been equal or slightly lesser to the raid jewellery (since the raid jewellery is harder to get and requires much higher stats to receive). Turbine took a step forward by making the raid cosmetics available to those who don't have any intention to raid yet you now want these items locked away from casual players?

    You seem to be failing to realise the simple concept that raiders do everything, every little tiny section of this game. They do the most content out of everyone, they go and get every tiny little buff to their character that they can possibly find (and believe me, those buffs are mostly scattered throughout non-raid content). Raiders don't want to lock items away from anyone, they don't demand that. That is simply a by-product of the raider goal: To have the best of the best items be the hardest to obtain. So you can look at that guy with a full set of BiS gear and think "Wow, look at all the challenges they completed". Currently this has been replaced by "Wow, that guy can pick flowers".

    So yes. Keep the Tamed Hound in the raid, don't take it out of the raid, don't bind it (because it's the only dog in the game at the moment so would be cruel to lock it away) and don't put it in the store. Do make new dogs, different models and breeds and do stick them throughout the game. But let's not put these dogs behind flower picking (plenty of pets there already), let's put them behind festivals or questlines or something interesting that people enjoy and will remember fondly as either challenging or entertaining content. A reasonable demand, don't you think?
    ~ The devs don't want to balance classes, what chance did I have ~

  9. #109
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    848
    @Starina
    Did someone already send you a Tamed Hound pet? I saw some people in this thread said they would send you one. I happen to have one in my inventory, currently on the Gwaihir server. Let me know if you're interested. I will give it to you for free, of course.
    Eruadarion | Captain | on Gwaihir [EU-DE]
    www.avorthalier.eu

  10. #110
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    3,125
    Quote Originally Posted by RANA01340 View Post
    Right. See, this is where we differ in opinion. There are currently almost a hundred cosmetic pets available to solo players. There are three in the raid. Why don't we deserve cool, unique, cosmetic rewards for our playstyle? What's wrong with having these pets as a reward? On Landroval, fewer people are selling Mumaks than anything else because our raid players are actively rolling/bidding on them to USE them, not sell them. Same with the dogs and knights, to a lesser extent. Since they're available as drops from the T1 version of the raid, which you can get into by practically going AFK for 5/6 of the fights, I don't see what's wrong with solo players having to cash out in order to get it without running the content. I personally bought a cosmetic pet for 2,500g that's a rare drop from a warband.
    You deserve the rewards the same as others have the right to ask for alternatives. Nobody wants to take things from you.

    An inflated gold value is bad for any game. If low-level characters have easy access to gold, it makes it easier for gold sellers to infiltrate the system. It also brings up the prices of every item at endgame, makes gold's value questionable and markets volatile. Inflation is bad in the real world and in game worlds. IMO, Turbine actually needs to create more gold sinks in the game at higher levels so that people aren't constantly running around at gold cap. It's one of the reasons that these pets can sell for as much as they do, because people have the gold to buy them at those prices.
    You repeat many cliches about inflation, people use to repeat in mmo forums. Virtual economies don't work the same as RL; they share a lot, of course, but not all can be explained with the RL perspective. Just one example, since I do not have all day: a virtual economy can works endlessly with hyper inflation while in RL would be chaos.

    In short, if Turbine follow your opinion it would transform the useless gold, that is most used as payments between players, into needed gold for goldsinks. That would make players who can't get enough for the new goldsinks, poorer. The players who have been hoarding gold would resist the impact better, they will rise their prices, making more difficult to poorer players to buy anything from them.

    That is the perfect scenery for gold sellers.

    Note: If you want to learn more about virtual economies, I suggest study "Synthetic Worlds" by Edward Castronova; as for RL money and inflation, study "Money and inflation" by Ludwig von Mises.

    As for your personal attacks against raiders, both towards my kin and towards the "cartel" that "doesn't have the guts to sell with their main characters," we're doing nothing wrong, or anything to be ashamed of. Using transfers, we're supplying overpopulated servers with things like First Age LI's, empowerments, etc. There's no official rule against it, and we've even talked to GMs who have said it's not a bannable offense. As for selling the pets on alts, we haven't been. If you go check AH right now, you'll see that I'm selling a Mumak pet for 600g. My kin-leader, Eliadon, regularly sells pets at around the same price, or lower. Once again, he posts them on his main.
    As for being a bannable offense, I never said that. I said you are abusing the transfer system to move droves of gold and items between servers. If that is ok with Turbine, so be it.

    I don't know what I've done to you in particular, but every one of your responses to me in the past four or five threads I've encountered you has contained a varying number of personal attacks directed either at me, or at raiders in general. Frankly, I think that I've responded pretty level-headedly to each of those posts, without raising to your bait. However, it has lead me to wonder why exactly you hate raiders so much. What exactly have we done to deserve such anger directed towards us? Sure, there are some who respond heatedly to certain threads, but there are also a lot of casual players who respond the same way. Why is it okay to lump either of those groups together in the same pot? We're obviously groups of individuals first and foremost, and as individuals we can be exceedingly different in our levels of respect for other players, and for the health of the game. We are not, as you seem to believe, solely made up of elitist jerks. I think you might find that if your responses were tempered with that in mind, you might see a different side of the raiding community in general. There are quite a few kind, respectful players who enjoy endgame content.
    First, I do not "hate" people, I point what I see; and what I see is a group of forum posters demanding the best rewards; trying to block any Turbine attempt to give something (like the flower jewelry) to non raiders. Then, they come to this thread and try to convince us that there is nothing wrong... it is all working as intended, you don't deserve the rewards; you don't deserve the jewelry; you don't deserve the pets. And when one rebels, it is cataloged as hater. Beautiful.

    As for my answers to your post, again you accuse me and victimize yourself. It is you who have been taking advantage of the pet exclusivity; not me. You are going to blame me for point it? No, there is nothing "illegal" with it. It was Turbine who gave you the exclusivity.

    It is a cartel, sorry if that word offends you, that is the right term.

    If you were more humble, instead of trying to appear "cool" because you are selling "cheap" pets today (when you admited that you and your kin sold them for a lot more), which only reflect that the Landroval market is demanding less pets or there are more sellers; If you had admitted the benefit of the exclusivity instead of trying to hide it, then I would not have said anything.

    In several of my posts I've stated explicity or tacity that, not all raiders are "bad" persons; in several of my posts I've stated that the only attitude that is not acceptable is the demanding for exclusivity; the blackmail and the threats to take away what Turbine gives to non raiders without taking anything from you.

    So I do not know what can I say. I won't stay quiet, kneel and agree with the greediness of a few.

    /edit I think there is nothing more to discuss about the dog pet than it should be available for everyone no matter the play style; as Tamed hound or as another dog race.
    Last edited by Laerien; Dec 01 2016 at 12:30 PM.
    Please ignore my ridiculous running animation.

  11. #111
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Beautiful Éire (Ireland)
    Posts
    405
    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    No raider has ever said that casual players don't deserve anything nice. The flower jewellery thread is purely about the fact that the raid jewellery was made obsolete in favour of flower picked gear, a problem that wouldn't have been caused if the flower jewellery had been equal or slightly lesser to the raid jewellery (since the raid jewellery is harder to get and requires much higher stats to receive). Turbine took a step forward by making the raid cosmetics available to those who don't have any intention to raid yet you now want these items locked away from casual players?

    You seem to be failing to realise the simple concept that raiders do everything, every little tiny section of this game. They do the most content out of everyone, they go and get every tiny little buff to their character that they can possibly find (and believe me, those buffs are mostly scattered throughout non-raid content). Raiders don't want to lock items away from anyone, they don't demand that. That is simply a by-product of the raider goal: To have the best of the best items be the hardest to obtain. So you can look at that guy with a full set of BiS gear and think "Wow, look at all the challenges they completed". Currently this has been replaced by "Wow, that guy can pick flowers".

    So yes. Keep the Tamed Hound in the raid, don't take it out of the raid, don't bind it (because it's the only dog in the game at the moment so would be cruel to lock it away) and don't put it in the store. Do make new dogs, different models and breeds and do stick them throughout the game. But let's not put these dogs behind flower picking (plenty of pets there already), let's put them behind festivals or questlines or something interesting that people enjoy and will remember fondly as either challenging or entertaining content. A reasonable demand, don't you think?
    It is a tricky subject, because while I agree raiders should be rewarded for their efforts, at the same time, a reward system should not lead to basically punishing all those who for whatever reason, will not run raids.

    I understand raiders, and that they wish to show off their efforts, but same time, I am not a fan of vanity. I'd generally say, the fact that as a raider I can get an item for free, is already a reward in itself. If others have to grind TP for it, to buy it from store, or have to part with cash they have earned in the real world, then they gain that items through the means suitable for them.

    If it is about showing one has completed, then would it not be better if we'd have something added to our inspect option? Just say a window which opens, showing all the raid achievements of a player. This way, the 'I did this!' momentum still exists, but it does not mean punishing others through the loss of items, they might really really like.

    I really would say:
    Make raid drops bound on acquire, but offer them also in the store, meaning raiders can earn them through raiding, others can earn them through grinding TP or using money. Create an additional inspect window, where achievements can be displayed.

    To me, that would be a system fair, and serving everyone.

  12. #112
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Beautiful Éire (Ireland)
    Posts
    405
    Quote Originally Posted by Eruadarion View Post
    @Starina
    Did someone already send you a Tamed Hound pet? I saw some people in this thread said they would send you one. I happen to have one in my inventory, currently on the Gwaihir server. Let me know if you're interested. I will give it to you for free, of course.
    Thank you so so much, it is a heart warming gesture, that really really touches me, same as it has with others who have offered.

    I followed the tip to go to another server, where prices were much lower, and bought a hound there, so my champ is now starting her journey through Middle Earth, accompanied by her beloved dog ^^ It really was important for me, to have a dog with her, any dog, really, and I am truly happy that after all these years, at least one of my characters has one <3

    Thank you again for offering, I really appreciate it, but would never take one for free, I was just deeply upset about the insane prices on my server, which basically would have meant 50 to 60 euros for a cosmetic pet, that's not even account wide.

    Many lovely players here, even those fighting over raid versus solo, in the end, we are all in this together, and should work to find ways that we all can be happy with our gaming time <3 <3 <3

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by YamydeAragon View Post
    Since in some of you people, think that the variag hound is not normal, please tell me wish one of this you consider a "normal looking" dog:


    You dared to point at any of these & not the others? Well you know little to nothing about dogs, because there are as much dogs varieties as people preferences. This have happened because dogs have coexisted with humans since the beginning. There is no normal looking dogs. To me the variag dog looks like the stereotype of a working dog specialized on combat & that once were very abundant on all Europe.


    To me it looks like the demonic spawn of hell and to that end is quite an appropriate reward in relation to the activity it came from. Let's face it you wouldn't have it around children, vulnerable adults or livestock would you? Whilst it fits in with the bios of many people's characters I'd still say it isn't really "normal". Just in my opinion the best looking most "normal" domestic dog in game (NPC or player owned) is the property guard hound. A scaled down version of it would be nice also. As far as I am concerned keep the varaig dog raid exclusive but I too see no reason why we can't have a more domestic looking domestic dog as cosmetic precedents already exist in game.
    Must remember to engage brain before using keyboard

  14. #114
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Beautiful Éire (Ireland)
    Posts
    405
    Quote Originally Posted by Catburg View Post
    To me it looks like the demonic spawn of hell and to that end is quite an appropriate reward in relation to the activity it came from. Let's face it you wouldn't have it around children, vulnerable adults or livestock would you? Whilst it fits in with the bios of many people's characters I'd still say it isn't really "normal". Just in my opinion the best looking most "normal" domestic dog in game (NPC or player owned) is the property guard hound. A scaled down version of it would be nice also. As far as I am concerned keep the varaig dog raid exclusive but I too see no reason why we can't have a more domestic looking domestic dog as cosmetic precedents already exist in game.
    It's those teeth. They are shark teeth o.O not dog teeth >.>

  15. #115
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    3,125
    Quote Originally Posted by Starina View Post
    Thank you so so much, it is a heart warming gesture, that really really touches me, same as it has with others who have offered.

    I followed the tip to go to another server, where prices were much lower, and bought a hound there, so my champ is now starting her journey through Middle Earth, accompanied by her beloved dog ^^ It really was important for me, to have a dog with her, any dog, really, and I am truly happy that after all these years, at least one of my characters has one <3

    Thank you again for offering, I really appreciate it, but would never take one for free, I was just deeply upset about the insane prices on my server, which basically would have meant 50 to 60 euros for a cosmetic pet, that's not even account wide.

    Many lovely players here, even those fighting over raid versus solo, in the end, we are all in this together, and should work to find ways that we all can be happy with our gaming time <3 <3 <3
    You made my day with this wonderful new.

    Have fun.
    Please ignore my ridiculous running animation.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Starina View Post
    It's those teeth. They are shark teeth o.O not dog teeth >.>
    Perhaps it is a dogfish as they are a type of shark aren't they?
    Must remember to engage brain before using keyboard

  17. #117
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,596
    Quote Originally Posted by Starina View Post
    It is a tricky subject, because while I agree raiders should be rewarded for their efforts, at the same time, a reward system should not lead to basically punishing all those who for whatever reason, will not run raids.

    I understand raiders, and that they wish to show off their efforts, but same time, I am not a fan of vanity. I'd generally say, the fact that as a raider I can get an item for free, is already a reward in itself. If others have to grind TP for it, to buy it from store, or have to part with cash they have earned in the real world, then they gain that items through the means suitable for them.

    If it is about showing one has completed, then would it not be better if we'd have something added to our inspect option? Just say a window which opens, showing all the raid achievements of a player. This way, the 'I did this!' momentum still exists, but it does not mean punishing others through the loss of items, they might really really like.

    I really would say:
    Make raid drops bound on acquire, but offer them also in the store, meaning raiders can earn them through raiding, others can earn them through grinding TP or using money. Create an additional inspect window, where achievements can be displayed.

    To me, that would be a system fair, and serving everyone.
    This is where a key aspect of MMO's come in: grinding.

    It's all well and good to give the medal of achievement when you have done something once but the raid locks the full set of armour behind many completed challenge runs. You're not going to win every single roll, you have to keep going back and keep doing it more and more until finally you reach that pinnacle of achievement and have every item BiS. Of course you run a few times after you are geared just to show off how powerful you have become and push your class to its limits. :P The added grind simply keeps people focused on doing that content and sticking with the game for longer.

    The raid armour and jewellery itself should be (and is) bound because that is the main goal of the raider, to master their craft (slaying digital dragons). The only people who really need the BiS gear are those who run the hardest PvE content (which the raid is by a mile). Now, the cosmetics are a nice addition and it's cool to be able to have a house of trophies you got from vanquishing your foes but in this case Turbine understood that "Hey, raiders aren't really the main group who go for cosmetics. Sure a great deal of them love to have them but a greater number of landscape players love their cosmetics" so Turbine made the cosmetic items unbound. Now, this did not make the raid cosmetics easy to get but it did make them available to those who did not want to run the raid. It takes about as much effort to gather the gold for the item to buy from the raider as it took the raider to get the item in the first place. You don't need to adjust the system because the system is fair and actually makes previously separate communities reliant on each other with the landscape players wanting cosmetics from the raid and the raiders wanting gold to buy landscape items.

    Straight up pulling out raid items from the raid and adding them to the store is a slap in the face to raiders. They worked for those items and then their work was rendered obsolete as it would have been easier to just get the item from the store. The items in question weren't restricted so that only raiders could possibly get them, they were still available to other players via the raiders. Most of the complaints about having to buy the Tamed Hound seem to be along the lines of "But I'd rather give money to Turbine than to Raiders" which is pretty rude and unfair, raiders give them plenty of gold in return for essences/crafts but they don't like giving gold to raiders for cosmetic items in return.
    ~ The devs don't want to balance classes, what chance did I have ~

  18. #118
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Beautiful Éire (Ireland)
    Posts
    405
    @ Laerien
    <3 <3 <3 and thank you so much for many valid points contributed to this thread by you!


    @ Catburg
    That must be it! LOL

    -----

    Due to the views voiced here in this thread, I have made a suggestion thread on the other board. I have no idea whether that could be a solution for the raid versus solo debate, but I somehow see it as a fairer system. Also no idea whether it has been suggested before, and was dismissed.

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...11#post7672411

  19. #119
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Cape Town
    Posts
    86
    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    No raider has ever said that casual players don't deserve anything nice. The flower jewellery thread is purely about the fact that the raid jewellery was made obsolete in favour of flower picked gear, a problem that wouldn't have been caused if the flower jewellery had been equal or slightly lesser to the raid jewellery (since the raid jewellery is harder to get and requires much higher stats to receive). Turbine took a step forward by making the raid cosmetics available to those who don't have any intention to raid yet you now want these items locked away from casual players?

    You seem to be failing to realise the simple concept that raiders do everything, every little tiny section of this game. They do the most content out of everyone, they go and get every tiny little buff to their character that they can possibly find (and believe me, those buffs are mostly scattered throughout non-raid content). Raiders don't want to lock items away from anyone, they don't demand that. That is simply a by-product of the raider goal: To have the best of the best items be the hardest to obtain. So you can look at that guy with a full set of BiS gear and think "Wow, look at all the challenges they completed". Currently this has been replaced by "Wow, that guy can pick flowers".

    So yes. Keep the Tamed Hound in the raid, don't take it out of the raid, don't bind it (because it's the only dog in the game at the moment so would be cruel to lock it away) and don't put it in the store. Do make new dogs, different models and breeds and do stick them throughout the game. But let's not put these dogs behind flower picking (plenty of pets there already), let's put them behind festivals or questlines or something interesting that people enjoy and will remember fondly as either challenging or entertaining content. A reasonable demand, don't you think?
    If raiders deserve the best stats, then surely RPers deserve the best cosmetics? You've kept arguing that raiders deserve the best equipment because they show the greatest skill (as if they were creating immortal poems or scientific theories rather than playing a computer game) so surely by the same standard the best items for role-playing should be chiefly available to those who show the most imagination and effort in role-playing? Raiders don't 'do everything'. Raiders are people who raid, more or less frequently. That's it.

  20. #120
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Behind you
    Posts
    1,769
    Quote Originally Posted by Starina View Post

    I followed the tip to go to another server, where prices were much lower, and bought a hound there, so my champ is now starting her journey through Middle Earth, accompanied by her beloved dog.
    Ah ha, I was thinking of doing the same thing. So transfer to the other server, buy the dog in the AH and then transfer back again?

    (Unless someone on Crickhallow wants to sell me one and save me the effort. I would like my hunter to have a hunting hound)

  21. #121
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Beautiful Éire (Ireland)
    Posts
    405
    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    This is where a key aspect of MMO's come in: grinding.

    It's all well and good to give the medal of achievement when you have done something once but the raid locks the full set of armour behind many completed challenge runs. You're not going to win every single roll, you have to keep going back and keep doing it more and more until finally you reach that pinnacle of achievement and have every item BiS. Of course you run a few times after you are geared just to show off how powerful you have become and push your class to its limits. :P The added grind simply keeps people focused on doing that content and sticking with the game for longer.

    The raid armour and jewellery itself should be (and is) bound because that is the main goal of the raider, to master their craft (slaying digital dragons). The only people who really need the BiS gear are those who run the hardest PvE content (which the raid is by a mile). Now, the cosmetics are a nice addition and it's cool to be able to have a house of trophies you got from vanquishing your foes but in this case Turbine understood that "Hey, raiders aren't really the main group who go for cosmetics. Sure a great deal of them love to have them but a greater number of landscape players love their cosmetics" so Turbine made the cosmetic items unbound. Now, this did not make the raid cosmetics easy to get but it did make them available to those who did not want to run the raid. It takes about as much effort to gather the gold for the item to buy from the raider as it took the raider to get the item in the first place. You don't need to adjust the system because the system is fair and actually makes previously separate communities reliant on each other with the landscape players wanting cosmetics from the raid and the raiders wanting gold to buy landscape items.

    Straight up pulling out raid items from the raid and adding them to the store is a slap in the face to raiders. They worked for those items and then their work was rendered obsolete as it would have been easier to just get the item from the store. The items in question weren't restricted so that only raiders could possibly get them, they were still available to other players via the raiders. Most of the complaints about having to buy the Tamed Hound seem to be along the lines of "But I'd rather give money to Turbine than to Raiders" which is pretty rude and unfair, raiders give them plenty of gold in return for essences/crafts but they don't like giving gold to raiders for cosmetic items in return.
    Thing is, you make it sound like that effort is one you hate to make. This though is generally not the case. Raiders love to raid, it is where their game enjoyment lies. They like the achievement and vanity part on top of it, and that is wonderful! It would be terrible if we'd all spend our time gaming, hating what we are doing, would make no sense.

    You speak of bringing the communities together, but this is not the case, as only a very few can usually afford the prices of rare unbound drops, which is also server dependent, as I stated - on my server the hounds for example were insanely expensive. There are servers with bigger raiding communities, and servers with smaller ones. Of course we could then all use the storage trick, but it would drive prices on the cheaper servers up again, as the demand from the other servers would hit those servers.

    And no, it is not rude wanting to open cash flow for Turbine. All gaming companies need to make money, and the more money they make, the more likely that we, the players, see good content, and that includes those who love to raid.

    As for raiders give other players coins for essences and so forth, of course true, but if raiders have far more coins than the other cap players, then this could affect the prices for items, other cap players need too, to gear up. Aside from that, from my own experience and the raiders I know, many of them are long established players, who have all their crafters in place, and generally depend less on the market than the casual player does (could be wrong though).

    For the grind, I suggested elsewhere now an achievement tab, which should incorporate a count of raids run. I'd say that would in many ways actually serve the vanity factor more, because anyone could inspect and see the 'wow' there. Armour? I can honestly tell you, I'd not know raid armour. I'd inspect you or see you passing, nothing would tell me of your achievements, and any cosmetic drops unbound, certainly wouldn't. An achievement inspect would serve far better for that, in my view anyway.

  22. #122
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Middle Earth, Arda
    Posts
    5,572
    Quote Originally Posted by Catburg View Post
    To me it looks like the demonic spawn of hell ...
    That is precisely what is war: hell on earth. The long standing war dog race of europe can be tracked back to the Molossus dog (Ancient Rome). If you look at this picture you will see that Turbines didn't even made the variag hound as big & impresive as the real deal:


    The most prolonged hell on earth was the middle age when humans turned against each other, the mortaility rate soared. These war dogs where abundant & many this war dogs as many other races went feral after their masters die from the plague or killed by rivals & these dogs survived of eating human corpses.

    ~ Check my Kinship at Gladden server: The Fate of Middle Earth ~

  23. #123
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Beautiful Éire (Ireland)
    Posts
    405
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheaezra View Post
    Ah ha, I was thinking of doing the same thing. So transfer to the other server, buy the dog in the AH and then transfer back again?

    (Unless someone on Crickhallow wants to sell me one and save me the effort. I would like my hunter to have a hunting hound)
    Make a new toon, I think in your case on Arkenstone. Get it throughy intro, then to the Auction House, to check for prices there. If you find they are more in the affordable range for you, close the game client, then log into your main server. Buy bags of gold from the banker and put them into your shared storage. Close game again, then when you open client, click on transfer. Find your main server, then next, select transfer the storage stuff, and the server you made your new character on. That is for free, while characters cost tokens or money to transfer. It was instantly for me, so then just go to server list and select the server where your new toon is on. It will have the shared storage available, and thus the coin bags you put in. Sell them back to the banker, buy the tome from AH, put it into shared storage, and start the process of transferring the shared storage back to you main server.

    It was quite quick, and I certainly found a tome that was affordable, where on my server, it certainly has not been.

    Hope you get your hound!!! I know it has shark teeth.. but I love mine. Named it after my Husky ^^

  24. #124
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,596
    Quote Originally Posted by Starina View Post
    Thing is, you make it sound like that effort is one you hate to make. This though is generally not the case. Raiders love to raid, it is where their game enjoyment lies. They like the achievement and vanity part on top of it, and that is wonderful! It would be terrible if we'd all spend our time gaming, hating what we are doing, would make no sense.

    You speak of bringing the communities together, but this is not the case, as only a very few can usually afford the prices of rare unbound drops, which is also server dependent, as I stated - on my server the hounds for example were insanely expensive. There are servers with bigger raiding communities, and servers with smaller ones. Of course we could then all use the storage trick, but it would drive prices on the cheaper servers up again, as the demand from the other servers would hit those servers.

    And no, it is not rude wanting to open cash flow for Turbine. All gaming companies need to make money, and the more money they make, the more likely that we, the players, see good content, and that includes those who love to raid.

    As for raiders give other players coins for essences and so forth, of course true, but if raiders have far more coins than the other cap players, then this could affect the prices for items, other cap players need too, to gear up. Aside from that, from my own experience and the raiders I know, many of them are long established players, who have all their crafters in place, and generally depend less on the market than the casual player does (could be wrong though).

    For the grind, I suggested elsewhere now an achievement tab, which should incorporate a count of raids run. I'd say that would in many ways actually serve the vanity factor more, because anyone could inspect and see the 'wow' there. Armour? I can honestly tell you, I'd not know raid armour. I'd inspect you or see you passing, nothing would tell me of your achievements, and any cosmetic drops unbound, certainly wouldn't. An achievement inspect would serve far better for that, in my view anyway.
    I don't hate the grind, I enjoy it and recognise the necessity of it. If we didn't involve the grind for gear then the first few people to gear would likely stop soon after, they completed the challenge, they got the gear. What else is there for them to do? The grind keeps the community alive.

    It isn't rude to want to give more cash to Turbine but it is rude to want that at the expense of the raiders. Raiders don't have more coins than anyone else because they actually spend more than anyone else. They constantly grab the tomes of defence, the essences, the stat food, the empowerment scrolls, the cosmetics and star lit crystals. Raiders buy so many different pieces and the only thing they sell from their raiding is the cosmetics. It's not a balanced system, it's skewed in favour of the non-raiders for gold but that doesn't bother the raiders so much because they continue to be rewarded for raiding. In fact this game is massively skewed in favour of raiders requiring a lot of landscape items and very few raid items for what they do. Trait points, virtues, essences, cloaks, LI's and now jewellery are all tied up into landscape, the vast majority of raid required items are not actually gained via group content.

    As for the inspect system, it feels pointless. Raiders already can tell if other players are good raiders at a glance, you don't need to make a big flashing sign that non-raiders can understand.
    ~ The devs don't want to balance classes, what chance did I have ~

  25. #125
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,596
    Quote Originally Posted by Parenthesis_ii View Post
    If raiders deserve the best stats, then surely RPers deserve the best cosmetics? You've kept arguing that raiders deserve the best equipment because they show the greatest skill (as if they were creating immortal poems or scientific theories rather than playing a computer game) so surely by the same standard the best items for role-playing should be chiefly available to those who show the most imagination and effort in role-playing? Raiders don't 'do everything'. Raiders are people who raid, more or less frequently. That's it.
    Raiders do everything because the things they use to raid are scattered everywhere.

    RPers have some cosmetic items trapped in the raid (which they can buy and avoid doing the content for).

    Raiders have trait points gated behind extended quest lines, essences gated behind rep/drops from landscape, LI's gated behind crafting, relics gated behind crafting, the only sure-fire way to get remembrance crystal is an epic book, the best cloak in the game (twice in a row) comes from epic quests and currently best jewellery behind flower picking. Raiders can't just buy the trait points/epic book progress/flower jewels, they need to go and do all that content to get those items.

    RPers are treated quite well, they are given almost everything they want within their favourite bubble of content with the rest being available from gold they can make in their bubble. Raiders have to do all the content around to get all the little pieces that make up the perfectly geared character.

    Funnily enough you can suggest that raiders are more skilled at class/instance mechanics than non-raiders. It's like saying a juggler is better at juggling than a non-juggler, one of them focuses explicitly on something whilst the other...just...doesn't juggle? Skill at playing a character is not wholly innate, it is something that you have to work on and raiders challenge and push themselves in this regard more than the casual person on landscape. I did not make the comparison that raiders were alike to immortal poets or genius scientists but thank you for seeing me in such a light. Brightened my day, that.
    ~ The devs don't want to balance classes, what chance did I have ~

 

 
Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload