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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Bullroarer special performance improvements preview weekend!

    We have updated Bullroarer to specifically get your feedback on some effect and particle performance improvements made by our engineering team and some adjustments we have made to Creep characters in PvMP. So please run a Raid or Fellowship Instance or jump into PvMP on Bullroarer this weekend and let us know what you think!
    Please note that this is NOT a normal beta build for any particular release, so regular release notes are not included.

    Fellowship/Raid performance improvements
    :
    • Target effect updates have been streamlined. We hope that groups will notice a performance improvement, especially a reduction in client hitches when first targeting a mob or player with many effects on them.
    • The clean up of effect information when a target is defeated has been streamlined. We hope that players will notice better performance in cases where many mobs are defeated, or when a boss with many effects is defeated.
    • Our particle effect system has been updated to hopefully make better use of information caching. We hope that players will notice better effect display performance over time during a play session.


    Monster Play Creep adjustments:
    • Increased Mastery Corruption values by 12.5%.
    • Mitigation Corruption values increased by 30%.
    • Critical Defence Corruption values increased by 15%.
    • Resistance corruption values increased by 10%.
    • Critical rating corruption values increased by 10%.
    • Damage and healing values increased by roughly 15%.
    • Max Morale base values have been slightly increased.

  2. #2
    I hate to be the first one to say anything... but unless that creep buff is accompanied by new freep pvmp gear and/or some kind of upgrade this might be a bit too much without a foreseeable future update to freeps.
    "There are things that go bump in the night. We're the ones who bump back." -BPRD

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Zanishi View Post
    I hate to be the first one to say anything... but unless that creep buff is accompanied by new freep pvmp gear and/or some kind of upgrade this might be a bit too much without a foreseeable future update to freeps.
    Honestly? Creeps haven't been updated since Level 85. And now that Turbine finally does something that is urgently needed, freeps start to QQ already? This is Bullroar - please stop this and learn to play your class!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Zanishi View Post
    I hate to be the first one to say anything... but unless that creep buff is accompanied by new freep pvmp gear and/or some kind of upgrade this might be a bit too much without a foreseeable future update to freeps.
    Gained like 5k morale. Mits increased like 2k. The corruption buff is pretty minimal because 30% and 12.5% increase on low values is basically nothing. Gained like 700 damage on the high end for my 2 biggest skills Impale and Dev Strike. Freeps are hardly going to notice don't worry friend.
    Afluk, Reaver, R14 | Arkenstone | Dark Impulse
    Falored, Champion | Arkenstone | Situational Awareness
    Original Challenger of Gothmog

  5. #5
    If thats the case then all those % are incorrect....

    I shouldn't have to say this but corruptions are % based not rating... if you gained 2k rating in mits it is from something else not the corruptions 30% increease because % have no cap so you don't gain rating you gain raw %...

    I am all for creeps being updated... but this is turbine swinging the pendulum as usual and I don't expect anything less...

    (As for the l2p comment... Creeps have been "updated/balanced" multiple times since 85 cap but I am glad you are attempting to follow with the times accurately...
    Last edited by Zanishi; Nov 04 2016 at 06:23 PM.
    "There are things that go bump in the night. We're the ones who bump back." -BPRD

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Zanishi View Post
    If thats the case then all those % are incorrect....

    I shouldn't have to say this but corruptions are % based not rating... if you gained 2k rating in mits it is from something else not the corruptions 30% increease because % have no cap so you don't gain rating you gain raw %...

    I am all for creeps being updated... but this is turbine swinging the pendulum as usual and I don't expect anything less...

    (As for the l2p comment... Creeps have been "updated/balanced" multiple times since 85 cap but I am glad you are attempting to follow with the times accurately...
    Yeah creeps will sure be crazy OP with those increases!
    Arkenstone| Officer of Faded | Altria
    Arkenstone | Leader of Dark Impulse | Telcely
    Original Challenger of Gothmog


  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zanishi View Post
    If thats the case then all those % are incorrect....

    I shouldn't have to say this but corruptions are % based not rating... if you gained 2k rating in mits it is from something else not the corruptions 30% increease because % have no cap so you don't gain rating you gain raw %...

    I am all for creeps being updated... but this is turbine swinging the pendulum as usual and I don't expect anything less...

    (As for the l2p comment... Creeps have been "updated/balanced" multiple times since 85 cap but I am glad you are attempting to follow with the times accurately...
    I know...which is why I gained 2k mits separately from the % bonus to the corruptions directly. Creeps seem to have gained 2k just flat. I'm saying that the % buff to corruption values are basically nothing because 30% on a low value is a low buff. 12.5% bonus to the mastery rating is laughable. With this change we will hit about 500 damage harder and our mits will still be 0 after the debuffs...at least I got 5k more morale right? Basically, the buffs are quite small and freeps won't notice so don't worry yourself.
    Afluk, Reaver, R14 | Arkenstone | Dark Impulse
    Falored, Champion | Arkenstone | Situational Awareness
    Original Challenger of Gothmog

  8. #8
    Well there you go...

    They increased the corruptions rating by 30% which yes is not much compared to whats stated in the "notes".

    If this follows with all the other "%" then the buff is pretty small and is unfortunate that it is all they get...

    GJ with the photo clarification btw it clears that up quite nicely...
    "There are things that go bump in the night. We're the ones who bump back." -BPRD

  9. #9
    Having no problems with Arkenstone in fact I have seen freeps with the Out Numbered buff during prime time all week... It does seem everyone is conglomerating there now, so that can be your clue...
    "There are things that go bump in the night. We're the ones who bump back." -BPRD

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Germany
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    228
    Quote Originally Posted by Vo1c3zzz View Post
    Gained like 5k morale. Mits increased like 2k. The corruption buff is pretty minimal because 30% and 12.5% increase on low values is basically nothing. Gained like 700 damage on the high end for my 2 biggest skills Impale and Dev Strike. Freeps are hardly going to notice don't worry friend.
    Wow that´s absolutely awesome. Now you can deal a critical impale about ~6k (with all dots) against a mini with 70k life ! Reaver dmg is now over the top i guess....

    okay joking aside.. those "improvements" are just a drop in the bucket . But maybe the´ll recognize it as they did with hunters and next beta will be more interesting.
    Runekeeper R13 (105) - Hunter R12 (85) - Loremaster R12 (100) - Burglar R11 (75) - Warden R11 (105) - Champ R6 (105) - Minstrel R8 (105) | Avorthalier / Wipeout
    Reaver R14 - Warg R12 | Narku Zur
    Original Challenger of Saruman & Gothmog

  11. #11
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    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tybur View Post
    Monster Play Creep adjustments:
    • Max Morale base values have been slightly increased.
    Genius, just needs to be higher IMO.

    Should be alright to make all creep morale pools to 200k+ so there is no way for either side to die to make it fair.

  12. #12
    I've been thinking for awhile that what creeps need is a base set of mitigation stats in addition to their armor rating, a rating that works out to around 30% or so (might have to vary by class), corruptions would build upon that starting point. My thinking was that freeps can easily max their mits/crit d/crit and have very generous mastery and finesse between their virtues and gear. Creeps only have 12 corruption slots which means they can choose glass cannon or be marginally sturdier but hit like a marshmallow.

    I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't see that the answer for more freep dps is creep morale, but more mits/resist/finesse as a base or stronger mits tied to audacity.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,033
    These PvP specific changes are the most insignificant on this list.

    People should be talking about the performance improvements -- that will hopefully be affecting everything and actually let people raid in PvP as well as reduce client load in PvE.

    PvP is not anywhere near as desperately in need of an update as is the general client performance.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Zürich
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    131
    Great initiative and swift response if we keep the fact that the freeps are almost done with their shiny armours and essences. The mitigations seem ok however the morale needs a definite 20% increase. And for those freeps who cry here now let s remember that the last creep update was on 18.2... So please you got your boost well high enough now, it s the time to outbalance things.
    Gu kibum kelkum-ishi, burzum-ishi... akha-gum-ishi ashi gurum...

  15. #15
    Partials and Finesse
    Is anything going to happen about partials avoidances? Finesse should at least reduce partials partially. Made this a little while back https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...-partial-B-P-E

    I'd like to see finesse at least reduce partials by up to 7.5% each, this would happen at current 22.5% finesse rating. Along with introducing partial resists.


    Creep Armour and Mitigations

    Creeps need their mitigations reworking (among many things), they get 1 mitigation per armour point. In fact the base amount of mitigations creeps have is lower than their armour value, meaning there are some hidden reductions. With rend and ancient craft now removing huge amounts of armour, creep mitigations can be reduced way too much.

    I suggest changing creep armour contribution to 0.5 mitigation per armour point and give equivalent +raw mitigations to keep base amounts the same. Armour pot and armour traits would need to be changed from +armour to +raw mitigation. This change would half the power of rend and ancient craft in pvp.

    Corruptions
    Corruptions should also be changed to 2/4/6 set bonuses which would offer much more flexibility in builds. Damage, Health and Power corruptions should have the negatives removed and renamed from I-IV, with the 2 stronger and 2 weaker versions still remaining.

    Mastery
    ? 2: +10% skill damage and healing
    ? 4: Attacks bypass 5% mitigations, -10% induction duration.
    ? 6: On every harmful skill, 30% chance to: Next harmful skill will have no power cost. Expires if out of combat for 9 seconds. Cooldown 2 sec.


    Critical rating
    ? 2: +5% Critical chance
    ? 4: +15% Critical magnitude
    ? 6: After every kill- Apply to the target: Restores 10% of maximum morale. Blood Thirst: Upon Killing an enemy, receive 10% of mac health.


    Physical mitigation
    ? 2: +5% Physical mitigation
    ? 4: On every Harmful skill, Targeted at you, 10% chance to increases damage and healing by 5% duration 10sec cooldown 10sec (Stacks with tactical version)
    ? 6: 10% Chance on being hit, Effects applied to applied to the Fellowship within 30 metres: +5% Physical mitigation +5% Tactical mitigation, duration 15sec cooldown 25sec. (Does not stack but will refresh)


    Tactical Mitigation
    ? 2: +5% Tactical mitigation
    ? 4: On every Harmful skill, Targeted at you, 10% chance to increases damage and healing by 5% duration 10sec cooldown 10sec (Stacks with physical version)
    ? 6: 10% Chance on being hit, Effects applied to applied to the Fellowship within 30 metres: +5% Physical mitigation +5% Tactical mitigation, duration 15sec cooldown 25sec. (Does not stack but will refresh)


    Critical defence
    ? 2: +10% Critical defence
    ? 4: On every Harmful skill, Targeted at you, On Critical Hit: Your next skill has 100% chance to critical cooldown 12sec
    ? 6: On every Harmful skill, Targeted at you, On Critical Hit: 1087 Damage cooldown 15sec


    Resistance
    ? 2: +5% Resistance
    ? 4: +5% Morale
    ? 6: On every Harmful skill, Targeted at you, 10% chance to Cotextual skill that cleanses all harmful effeects on self. Does not include Combat states. Expires if out of combat for 9sec.
    Last edited by Rakanor; Nov 05 2016 at 08:21 AM.
    Rakanor R12 Reaver - Trin R11 Champion

  16. #16
    ~Rank 11 Loremaster, Arkenstone~

    ~Rank 13 Warg, Arkenstone~

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    75
    Any fix for grd dots? :P

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethirielll View Post
    Any fix for grd dots? :P
    This. Guardian Survivability is still insanely high, but their damage is a gigantic joke, and making their bleeds pottable was insane.
    ~Rank 11 Loremaster, Arkenstone~

    ~Rank 13 Warg, Arkenstone~

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Tybur View Post
    Monster Play Creep adjustments:
    • Increased Mastery Corruption values by 12.5%.
    • Mitigation Corruption values increased by 30%.
    • Critical Defence Corruption values increased by 15%.
    • Resistance corruption values increased by 10%.
    • Critical rating corruption values increased by 10%.
    • Damage and healing values increased by roughly 15%.
    • Max Morale base values have been slightly increased.
    It is my opinion that Mastery and Mitigation Corruption values be increased MUCH more.

    If you are going to slot Mastery, the increase in damage/heals done should be obvious. It still just feels like there's not much incentive to trait Mastery instead of Mitigations. For a freep to go glass cannon, they will be squishy and die... but do tons more damage. For a creep to go glass cannon, the tradeoff of survivability does not seem equal to the amount of damage gained.

    Likewise, assuming Mastery Corruptions were raised to such a point that they were CLEARLY A GAME CHANGER, a creep traiting Mitigations instead of Mastery should notice that they take substantially less damage. I am pleased with the 30% increase (in that the Mitigation Corruption was the one that was increased the most out of all) however I do not think that it is enough.

    I do not know if creeps have a Mitigation Cap. I assume they do, but if they do not and the concern is that they would approach 90% mitigations or something ridiculous... I would suggest adding a cap at like 70-75% or something. That way even with all of the armour buffs and (presumably) giant Mitigation contributions from corruptions... it would still hit a cap.

    HOWEVER, after getting hit by Rend or Ancient Craft, the armour value would fall, but high Mitigation Corruption values would still be in place to keep overall mitigations at a decent spot. The idea I am pushing for is that creeps become less dependent on armour value's contribution to mitigations now that Rend and Ancient Craft are so incredibly potent. Perhaps even allowing for the strategy of OVER-CAPPING mitigations (slotting all 6 of one Mitigation Corruption) in anticipation of Rend/AC/Whatever debuffs; something freeps are able to do with gear customization.

    My feedback aside, I appreciate the quick response to the poor state of PvMP right now. I hope care is given to all the feedback given for this BR round.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    402
    Quote Originally Posted by Spilo View Post
    This. Guardian Survivability is still insanely high, but their damage is a gigantic joke, and making their bleeds pottable was insane.
    Guardians now remind me some sentence from movie: " The Big Man, with the small C*ock "
    When I m running around on my low rank creeps, I just ignore guards. It isnt fight, It is a pure boredom.
    They are now just good enough for charge in frontline at TR-GV or Lug-Gramms shuffle
    Pls fix LM, then guard pls
    "To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supereme excellence.
    Supreme excellence consist in breaking enemys resitance without fighting" Sun Tzu - the Art of War.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Zanishi View Post
    If thats the case then all those % are incorrect....

    I shouldn't have to say this but corruptions are % based not rating... if you gained 2k rating in mits it is from something else not the corruptions 30% increease because % have no cap so you don't gain rating you gain raw %...

    I am all for creeps being updated... but this is turbine swinging the pendulum as usual and I don't expect anything less...

    (As for the l2p comment... Creeps have been "updated/balanced" multiple times since 85 cap but I am glad you are attempting to follow with the times accurately...

    You call a morale boost an update/balance of the game?! Having more morale doesn't help and it can be considered being totally waste as the freeps have more mitigation, more power, more morale and more mastery. So please don't call that an update. I am not complaining about the insane damage of runekeepers, burgs, wardens and hunters. Hunters are supposed to deal damage. However, I think, there is no class on creep side that can deal damage like the runekeeper and the Beo and can HEAL like that at the same time. If you need facts, just compare damage/heals of the creeps with the freeps - all questions answered. It would help pvp if freeps just could activate one skill tree; so either decide between damage or heals.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,363
    Quote Originally Posted by Tybur View Post
    Monster Play Creep adjustments:
    • Increased Mastery Corruption values by 12.5%.
    • Mitigation Corruption values increased by 30%.
    • Critical Defence Corruption values increased by 15%.
    • Resistance corruption values increased by 10%.
    • Critical rating corruption values increased by 10%.
    • Damage and healing values increased by roughly 15%.
    • Max Morale base values have been slightly increased.
    They obviously put their Economist in charge of MPvP.
    On the other hand we are finally going to find out if adding more mit is going to change anything

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Serbia
    Posts
    27
    First of all,I would like to say to Turbine "Thank you" because they at least put on test server something that is related to creep side.

    Now as a second thing,I believe not many will like it.

    You,Freeps,should stop your QQ.You get update on your gear and weapons with every update.We don't,we didn't have an update for far too long.

    As a respond to your request for PvP gear,I'll have to say this:you all have up to 80k mastery(some even more),you have good mitigation,you have good gear,and perfect character skills that were developed for years.If it is the case that you truly need new pvp gear so you could play in Ettenmoors and kill a creep,or go gvg or rvr,then you definitely have no skill as a Player.On server I am on(Evernight) freeps deal with creeps with armor they have,and most of them are good at it.Since last update we do have a bit of struggle to make action not to become a farm by freep side.So,stop whining and woman/man up and learn to play without being totally op.Because creeps do it for years.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Sofa Pits
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    37
    Quote Originally Posted by gagily View Post
    First of all,I would like to say to Turbine "Thank you" because they at least put on test server something that is related to creep side.

    Now as a second thing,I believe not many will like it.

    You,Freeps,should stop your QQ.You get update on your gear and weapons with every update.We don't,we didn't have an update for far too long.

    As a respond to your request for PvP gear,I'll have to say this:you all have up to 80k mastery(some even more),you have good mitigation,you have good gear,and perfect character skills that were developed for years.If it is the case that you truly need new pvp gear so you could play in Ettenmoors and kill a creep,or go gvg or rvr,then you definitely have no skill as a Player.On server I am on(Evernight) freeps deal with creeps with armor they have,and most of them are good at it.Since last update we do have a bit of struggle to make action not to become a farm by freep side.So,stop whining and woman/man up and learn to play without being totally op.Because creeps do it for years.
    I agree with this post, with every update freeps get new gear, and although I understand that it must be quite a grind to get those new items or essences or whatever it is, creeps just don't have that option at all. We get a bit more morale when there's a max level increase, and that's pretty much it. And don't worry, my dear freeps, I am sure that creeps will still be weak compared to freeps. I really don't mind that at all, being the underdog is part of the fun. :-)


    /Terapispindeln
    Friendly Therapy Spider

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    160
    Quote Originally Posted by Lioncourt86 View Post
    It is my opinion that Mastery and Mitigation Corruption values be increased MUCH more.

    ABSOLUTELY THIS. The 'buffs' equate to almost nothing as noted by many above. We have a long downtime scheduled for Monday...please dont tell me this 'improvement' is slated for release on Monday. If so...that only shows that Turbine has in fact zero intentions of adjusting the 'buffs' made that are currently in BR, since Im pretty sure 2 days in BR is not enough time to take in feedback and make any further adjustments. I mean...do Devs work weekends? I doubt it. I really hope Im wrong, but if this is the case...'disappointing' doesn't even begin to describe it.

 

 
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