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  1. #1

    Question about general balancing

    Recently the guardian was nerfed and in other threads you can read the discussion.
    I don't want to talk espacially about the guard, more about the genrell balancing and with some 'issues' i would like to know, how to handle with.

    First i would like to know, why guards are nerfed, because their dps is par to a champ [or can be], but there is nerf about wardens and RKs?

    This doesn't seem very fair to me.

    With 18.1 my hunter has big problems with partial bpe. Partial Evade even in right position and RKs are completly unaffected. The DPS gap between both classes increases with every update.

    Is this really wanted?

    Is it really more important to nerf some soloing Guards having fun ?

  2. #2
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    I get the feeling Turbine only has time to look at one class at a time. EdgeCase was looking at burgs a couple months ago, now it's guards. There may be changes coming to those other classes later.

  3. #3
    I am playing a hunter myself as well and I feel the imbalances, which have been around for quite some time already, are getting more and more out of control with each update. The gap you mentioned between hunter and rk dps is increasing evermore as stats increase because the basic unbalance is never adressed so the effects scale in proportion to the increase in masteries, and the partial b/p/e update kind of killed the hunter class completely. It has reached a point where people don't post for ranged dps with rk prefered anymore, but simply only invite fire rk's for the job, which leaves the hunter, as one of THE dps classes to grind some dailies and taxi people around in middle-earth. It's a shame that these issues didn't get adressed a long time ago already, and even more that they keep getting ignored to a point where you can really just stick to casual playing or quit the game. Even if the hunter base dps was increased by 50% with the changes to partials and the resulting lower number of crits, thus lower number of important procs along with massive direct dps nerf, groups would still prefer rk's. And this doesnt even take the very low survivability of hunters into consideration. The class needs some loving attention for a long time now but I honestly doubt it will ever get better again (in another post I've been reading that one of the latest official dev streams confirmed that there are currently no intentions to have a closer look at the class...).

  4. #4
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    It was mentioned during the Anniversary stream that fewer wardens achieve that, while for guards to survive fights just takes enough trait points to get the self healing.

    It is going to get interesting with 18.2 if Imbued legendary increases come, if there's percentage increases on warden damage, RK damage, etc.
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  5. #5
    Sir_Alexander, I absolutly share your opinion!
    But with the last update an the changes about the guardian I got kind a feeling, they want to force some classes brutally out of the game.
    18.1 shows me, that actually they know about differences and unbalancing, e.g. Devs know, that Guardian aoe DPS and Champ's are par. I belief, that they know, what they're doing!

    So nowadays i think really, there isn't any interest in a (still free to play) single-target DPS-Class.

    Also i can really understand, that RKs are a *bit* better, in old times maybe 10-20%. This difference is incentive for me to get better and better to beat 90% of RKs in DPS.

    But since osgiliath instances were brought to the game, there is no way to get at least nearly par.

    The real problem is not, that it's maybe a *bit* harder with Hunters (and in some way champs are also disabled), rather it's *nearly* impossible.
    No random group wants a hunter.
    Going with kinship or friends is even harder, because they just pull you through an instance.
    And there I#m just talking about 6 men instances. Yes it's possible to run with a hunt, but often you need a very good RK for doing the challenge. E.g. look at silent street: Any probs with 2 RKs? No....
    Probs with 1 RK and 1 Hunt? Yes, maybe.
    Probs with 2 Hunts? Not seen so far, and even this is sad.

    And now let's look to all new 3men instances.

    sunken maze -> the class line-up has to be one of the best with high-end players to challenge with Hunts
    ruined City -> Honestly there's no fun

    head of the Snake: Absorbing ranged dmg, are you kinding me? Just look exactly to this instance. -20%ranged dmg (1-5 times) is a debuff for hunters. +10%not hitting for a Champ and RKs? Nothing?




    Actually these theses are old, much older than any guards video on youtube.

    This problem is heavier and kills every Main-Hunter, but with every update it's absolutly ignored or get's even worse. Partial BPE killed the hunter absolutly. There is no real way to keep partial evade small and even if you don't want so see it: It' impssible to stay always behind a mob. Some tactics are with a tanking DD [look at silent street for newest Instance] and tihs is the biggest problem for Hunts.
    If there is a tactial force out for hunters, we have the inofficial update that patches the hunters out of the game.


    First of the problems were really regonised by osgiliath and how old is this update? about 1 year?

    so why is there an absolutly unnessecary for Groupplay nerf to the guardian and nothing to the Hunts?

    Turning on the dmg output by 100% would be an easy start to keep the hunts in the game and are about .... let me see ...1-2 lines of code?

    So dear developers, where is an balance update?

  6. #6
    As long as the essence system doesn't get a total overhaul there will never be any balance in this game again.

    I mean with masteries reaching from 40k to over 100k and moral reaching from 15k to 80k at the same character level even within the same class how can anyone honestly expect balancing?
    Right now with class changes Turbine is just turning some screws although the engine has already exploded. It's a futile endeavor.

  7. #7
    I wonder where a true point of balance would even be. In my opinion, melee DPS should be higher than ranged DPS to account for the fact melee has to move around more to avoid stuff. In my opinion, DPS in a tanking line should be lower than DPS in a DPS line. In my opinion, in a CC spec your damage should be lower than in a DPS spec. In my opinion, in a healing spec your DPS should be lower than in a DPS spec. Then you have to balance the value of AOE and single target lines.


    Here is how I think single target DPS should compare to the DPS from other specs.


    Melee Single Target DPS = x + Movement bonus
    Ranged Single Target DPS = x

    Melee AOE DPS = x + Movement bonus - AOE penalty
    Ranged AOE DPS = x - AOE penalty

    Melee Tank = x - Tanking penalty

    Melee CC = x + Movement bonus - CC penalty
    Ranged CC = x - CC penalty

    Melee Healing Single Target DPS = x + Movement bonus - Healing penalty
    Ranged Healing Single Target DPS = x - Healing penalty

    Melee Healing AOE DPS = x + Movement bonus - Healing penalty - AOE penalty
    Ranged Healing AOE DPS = x - Healing penalty - AOE penalty


    I realize this is a oversimplification of the process of balancing classes.
    Last edited by mercho; May 25 2016 at 03:33 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fratonia View Post
    As long as the essence system doesn't get a total overhaul there will never be any balance in this game again.

    I mean with masteries reaching from 40k to over 100k and moral reaching from 15k to 80k at the same character level even within the same class how can anyone honestly expect balancing?
    Right now with class changes Turbine is just turning some screws although the engine has already exploded. It's a futile endeavor.
    Not entirely true. Real problem is Imbued LIs. Mechanics can always be challenging enough to make any group to wipe no matter of morale or mastery and imbued weapons allow this in the first place.



    But as many of us have said, with little class changes/nerfs game would be so much better. Mainly on classes like Guardian, Minstrel, RK, Warden. And bigger revamp on burglar and some fixing on hunter focus damage.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    Not entirely true. Real problem is Imbued LIs. Mechanics can always be challenging enough to make any group to wipe no matter of morale or mastery and imbued weapons allow this in the first place.
    Imbued LIs are another big problem on top of the essence system. Both systems allow extreme differences in character strength which make balancing impossible. However, I don't expect any of the two to be fixed because they are cash cows to Turbine and give players something to do at end game.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fratonia View Post
    Imbued LIs are another big problem on top of the essence system. Both systems allow extreme differences in character strength which make balancing impossible. However, I don't expect any of the two to be fixed because they are cash cows to Turbine and give players something to do at end game.
    Imbued LIs still the main thing and anyone who plays the game should see it. Without insane healing ratings nobody could stack morale as healer class. Morale stacking on tanks and support always been a thing. I remember our LMs having 7k morale back in Moria. Back on 85 level I had 14k unbuffed morale option available for my minstrel. I can't remember exact number but healing LIs makes basic heals about 500% stronger on minstrel, 300-400% on other classes.

    However as said it's not as big thing on essences in PVE as you make it to be since so many mechanics are pure morale damage these days.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    Imbued LIs still the main thing and anyone who plays the game should see it. Without insane healing ratings nobody could stack morale as healer class. Morale stacking on tanks and support always been a thing. I remember our LMs having 7k morale back in Moria. Back on 85 level I had 14k unbuffed morale option available for my minstrel. I can't remember exact number but healing LIs makes basic heals about 500% stronger on minstrel, 300-400% on other classes.

    However as said it's not as big thing on essences in PVE as you make it to be since so many mechanics are pure morale damage these days.
    What a bold, if slightly ludicrous statement (I'm beginning to see Bango's point). The classes as a whole are OP and unbalanced. The introduction of the essence system has just made things worse. As usual, Turbine is trying to get us to do their job for them. The imbued LIs is just the tip of the iceberg, the core problem starts first with the classes and then the essence system. If you want proof of that, simply take off your LI (replace it with a "standard" item) and go for a stroll around Middle Earth.
    Last edited by Denhith; May 26 2016 at 05:38 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denhith View Post
    What a bold, if slightly ludicrous statement (I'm beginning to see Bango's point). The classes as a whole are OP and unbalanced. The introduction of the essence system has just made things worse. As usual, Turbine is trying to get us to do their job for them. The imbued LIs is just the tip of the iceberg, the core problem starts first with the classes and then the essence system. If you want proof of that, simply take off your LI (weapon) and go for a stroll around Middle Earth.
    Yes indeed try make decent DPS or healing parse with lvl 50 LIs and see how it goes. I (and he) weren't even speaking of classes in general but imbalance that equipment causes. Class imbalance is obvious to us.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    Yes indeed try make decent DPS or healing parse with lvl 50 LIs and see how it goes. I (and he) weren't even speaking of classes in general but imbalance that equipment causes. Class imbalance is obvious to us.
    But you are saying that imbued LIs are the "main thing". I disagree completely. At 105, equip a set of level 100 non-imbued LIs and you'll do absolutely fine. The imbued LIs are a bad joke, an added grind that no one truly asked for.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denhith View Post
    But you are saying that imbued LIs are the "main thing". I disagree completely. At 105, equip a set of level 100 non-imbued LIs and you'll do absolutely fine. The imbued LIs are a bad joke, an added grind that no one truly asked for.
    While the non-imbued may "do absolutely fine", imbued is clearly superior. The only caveat is regarding the conversion of some legacies, so if you have a key legacy that will be converted when you imbue, you may actually consider using a non-imbued LI in order to keep it. As for the grind, you can get the delving and empowerment scrolls from the skirmish camp (and the latter are also common drops from the featured instances). You could barter for star-lit during the anniversary event. Really the only difficult to obtain item now is the crystal of remembrance. I believe the intent with the imbued LI was ultimately to replace the existing system, allowing LI to be imbued at low levels and get rid of the system of having to replace and rebuild them every so many levels.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKenny View Post
    While the non-imbued may "do absolutely fine", imbued is clearly superior. The only caveat is regarding the conversion of some legacies, so if you have a key legacy that will be converted when you imbue, you may actually consider using a non-imbued LI in order to keep it. As for the grind, you can get the delving and empowerment scrolls from the skirmish camp (and the latter are also common drops from the featured instances). You could barter for star-lit during the anniversary event. Really the only difficult to obtain item now is the crystal of remembrance. I believe the intent with the imbued LI was ultimately to replace the existing system, allowing LI to be imbued at low levels and get rid of the system of having to replace and rebuild them every so many levels.
    Superior, yes...the main reason why the game is so unbalanced? No.
    That was my point.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denhith View Post
    But you are saying that imbued LIs are the "main thing". I disagree completely. At 105, equip a set of level 100 non-imbued LIs and you'll do absolutely fine. The imbued LIs are a bad joke, an added grind that no one truly asked for.
    Potency of LIs in general allow all this messing around with huge morale pools in the first place as I wrote. They should change formula how healing ratings for example are contributed to overall healing and making outgoing healing linear and cap way higher, forcing players rely more on the mastery than healing rating of items. My opinion on imbued LIs is well documented here and now after new raid comes out it just shows that old system would have been miles better for end game with only 2nd age LIs for people who don't raid.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    Potency of LIs in general allow all this messing around with huge morale pools in the first place as I wrote. They should change formula how healing ratings for example are contributed to overall healing and making outgoing healing linear and cap way higher, forcing players rely more on the mastery than healing rating of items. My opinion on imbued LIs is well documented here and now after new raid comes out it just shows that old system would have been miles better for end game with only 2nd age LIs for people who don't raid.
    Out of morbid curiosity, I logged into the game today with the intent to switch out my two FA imbued LIs with two non-imbued LIs. From there, I was going to see what type of difference/impact I could see.
    Unfortunately, Turbine decided to block us from deconstructing our imbued LIs. Turbine 101. I logged out.

    /shrug.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by DKenny View Post
    While the non-imbued may "do absolutely fine", imbued is clearly superior.
    Yes, imbued is clearly superior. What I never understood is why they had to make them superior even without investment of scrolls or crystals. When we imbue, the DPS stat is higher than non-imbued and all attributes are higher too. Was it a carrot to get us to imbue right away and then get us to use the shop for scrolls and crystals? It sure looks like that to me. Providing the means to pimp that LI even further also wasn't necessary for gameplay sake. Trait trees, essence system and imbued LIs are only there to get us to use the shop. They don't improve the game at all. Actually, they make the game worse in my opinion. Fun was replaced by mind-numbing endless farm runs in the easiest dungeon.
    Turbine won't change that course. Doing so would kick all of those players in the nuts who spent months farming the perfect items for god mode. So say "Bye" to balance forever. The small changes to classes are just drops in the ocean.


    Quote Originally Posted by DKenny View Post
    I believe the intent with the imbued LI was ultimately to replace the existing system, allowing LI to be imbued at low levels and get rid of the system of having to replace and rebuild them every so many levels.
    That may have been the original intent of some developer but the idea was dropped to implement a pay to win system instead. The new LI system has nothing to do with the original idea. There isn't even an automatic part involved that ties the power of the LI to the character level. Turbine has to set the power manually and unrelated to character level. That's also the reason why we will never see the new LI system expanded to lower levels.

  19. #19
    Sorry, but actually I'm not thinking that embued LIs or a Essences system is a problem.
    We're talking about a virtual reality, so behind every system there are just lines of code, produced and controlled by real persons.

    Every system is able to be really balanced, the main Problem is how to get this point or if you even want to reach such a balanced point.

    For Example: If the DPS increases during the long episode on lvl 100, started with normal LIs and beginning of Essences to endsystem, to double (200%DPS at the end of lvl 100 compared to starting 100) there should be an update with a) higher mitigations of the enemies or 200% morale.
    Looking to Osgiliath or the Minas Tirith Instances, I can see that it's still possible to produce a balanced Instance with content.

    In my eyes the main question is, if it's wanted.

    Also we're not talking in this thread about main problems, rather class specific problems.

    Using every possible way/gear etc it's still not possible to reach some goals.

    The mentioned difference between guardian and warden in survivability is partial true, but not in general. I accept the logic, that a class that is harder to play can reach some better survivability but looking to this is even unterstand the RK less.

    Not in Traitlining, Gearing or playing a RK is so sophisticated that a double so high DPS is justified.

    Also the mentioned difference between ranged and melee is not so easy to discribe, because there's a difference with the targets.

    Actually a hunter has a single-target-Traitline with exactly 1 target or 1 AoE skill and traitline for brutal AoE-DPS. There is no *good* way for little groups like 3-6 mobs. Champs for example have a great ability to skill right between single-target and real Aoe and this way is seen in DPS.

  20. #20
    essences are a problem, because essence equipment is per se better than non-essence equipment.
    it just has more stats
    and it only has desired stats
    thats just wrong. if an item only has desired stats, it should have less sum of stats. so, there is the big problem of essence system.
    then, this would be much less of a problem, if items only had one essence slot or maybe raid items two.
    but we get so many slots, that essence stats are more than non essence stats, which leads to very big differences.
    just too much. essences are just clearly too strong and we can use too much of them.

    legendary items... sure, they are unneededly strong. or at least have potential to be it.

    still, if turbine would scale enemies in the same way players strength rises, there would not be that much of a problem. just, that the strength of common free players goes from lets say 15k morale with 40k mastery to 40k morale with 100k mastery. not really easy to tell now, if the enemy should do a 10k or 20k aoe attack and if it should have one or five million morale...

    imo, we need two things:
    non-essence-equipment with higher sum of stats than essence equipment but without choice of stats.
    choice of mainstats on legendary items and reverting of legendary attributes. some new ones are just too strong.


    still, the biggest problems are not these two system which at least work...
    its the classes themselves. classes with dps roles should not go from 5k to 20k dps. the difference between two classes played by players of the same skill level should be 20% maximum.
    if there is a class that cannot do anything but dps, it should be good in dps. better than classes with a choice (like 10% better than classes with a choice and 20% better than classes with choice and other utility while dpsing). and melee dps should be slightly higher than ranged (5-10%) just because its easier to die in melee range.

    hunter choices: ranged dps while moving, ranged dps while standing still, ranged dps with cc
    burg choices: melee dps with debuffs, melee dps, partially ranged dps with debuffs and groupheal
    champ choices: tank, melee dps st, melee dps aoe
    warden choices: tank, dps melee, dps ranged with debuffs
    rk choices: heal, ranged dps while standing still, ranged dps while moving
    minstrel choices: heal, ranged dps with aoe burst, buffing
    cappy choices: heal and buff, melee dps and buff, tank and buff
    guard choices: tank, melee dps, whatever yellow does... pissing off monsterplayers?
    lm choices: afk petfarming, ranged aoe dps, debuffing ccing and dpsing a little
    beorn choices: tank, melee dps, heal

    so... there are classes with 3 dps specs (hunter, burglar) and some with 3 real choices (beorn, warden, minstrel, cappy, lm (and maybe guard)) and some with 2 dps traits (champ, rk).
    imo, classes with 3 dps traitlines should be best in dps, classes with 2 traitlines should follow and classes with 3 different choices should be 20-30% behind those with 3 dps lines (dps compared in similar situations and all singletarget). not with huge differences like today.
    Last edited by Oelle; May 26 2016 at 07:51 PM.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Alexander View Post
    I am playing a hunter myself as well and I feel the imbalances, which have been around for quite some time already, are getting more and more out of control with each update. The gap you mentioned between hunter and rk dps is increasing evermore as stats increase because the basic unbalance is never adressed so the effects scale in proportion to the increase in masteries, and the partial b/p/e update kind of killed the hunter class completely. It has reached a point where people don't post for ranged dps with rk prefered anymore, but simply only invite fire rk's for the job, which leaves the hunter, as one of THE dps classes to grind some dailies and taxi people around in middle-earth. It's a shame that these issues didn't get adressed a long time ago already, and even more that they keep getting ignored to a point where you can really just stick to casual playing or quit the game. Even if the hunter base dps was increased by 50% with the changes to partials and the resulting lower number of crits, thus lower number of important procs along with massive direct dps nerf, groups would still prefer rk's. And this doesnt even take the very low survivability of hunters into consideration. The class needs some loving attention for a long time now but I honestly doubt it will ever get better again (in another post I've been reading that one of the latest official dev streams confirmed that there are currently no intentions to have a closer look at the class...).
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    e
    rk choices: heal, ranged dps while standing still, ranged dps while moving
    Not really.
    RK has 1 heal, 1 ranged dps and 1 to take extra crit defence and crit rating, but ever ever spec and use in instance.


    I don't think melees should have more DPS than rangeds because they must come close, they should have more defence because they have to get close, and easier mobility when boss runs like crazy (and there should be more bosses like that), or using some circles (go away losing induction/channer or die), this affects melees little and induction users much. And only induction user that won't be bothered by it is hunt (sure, only while blue traited, but then, I think t2c should require players to be able to play in more than 1 trait tree- people that are "I only go in 1 tree and ignore existance of 2 others" should have mega hard time in highest tier endgame).
    So, they should design fights arround "Now this trait tree is best, but it will be worse in next boss, so be prepared."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Hello
    https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Finesse
    Try to get some more.
    Finesse doesn't affect partials.
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  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Not really.
    RK has 1 heal, 1 ranged dps and 1 to take extra crit defence and crit rating, but ever ever spec and use in instance.


    I don't think melees should have more DPS than rangeds because they must come close, they should have more defence because they have to get close, and easier mobility when boss runs like crazy (and there should be more bosses like that), or using some circles (go away losing induction/channer or die), this affects melees little and induction users much. And only induction user that won't be bothered by it is hunt (sure, only while blue traited, but then, I think t2c should require players to be able to play in more than 1 trait tree- people that are "I only go in 1 tree and ignore existance of 2 others" should have mega hard time in highest tier endgame).
    So, they should design fights arround "Now this trait tree is best, but it will be worse in next boss, so be prepared."
    well, i agree, that lightning traitline on RK is really bad in dps (somewhere on the level of guard and cappy redline maybe? didn't test it) and only has mobile burst... still, its designed as mobile damage traitline. but sure, if you call it non-dps, put even lower dps on RK making them be 20% behind burg/hunt, no problem with me.

    being melee is generally worse than being ranged. ranged classes can start with dps earlier, they get less aoe and often dont have to move in fights or move less. getting more damage can be countered by having higher survival qualities... as most melees have with higher mitigation caps (all light classes are ranged, all heavy classes are melee). still, in many fights, melees have less time to do dps because they have to move or are cc'd or because theres huge damage around the boss (and they have to move). if melees cannot do dps for the whole time in many fights, they should do higher dps in the time they can to result in the same damage per boss.

    i strongly disagree with forcing people to switch traitlines inside instances. in the good old days, this was not even possible, you had to go to a musician and pay him money to switch traits. imo, it should still be the case. switching between traitlines is too easy. sure, i myself do it too, i.e. when i am in instances with my minstrel... red for trash, blue for bosses. or if im hunter i sometimes go yellow for trash, because then i can do damage with instants and enemies don't die while i'm inducting. or switching between red and yellow as champ because some bosses forbid aoe.
    still, while i do it, i feel, that one should choose the role for an instance in the beginning and stick to it. if you want to clear trash fast, take red champ, but he then does less dps for the boss which forbids aoe etc. if this game would be designed like i want it, champs singletarget dps would be really weak, just because his aoe is truly awesome. just like burgs aoe is really weak because he has okayish singletarget dps and debuff. choose a role and stick to it. some classes don't have choices, classes with choices should be inferior in each role to the ones with only one.


    btw: ive seen lots of RK changing to yellow line from red on bosses, where fire damage is bad
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by CalienX View Post
    Sorry, but actually I'm not thinking that embued LIs or a Essences system is a problem.
    We're talking about a virtual reality, so behind every system there are just lines of code, produced and controlled by real persons.

    Every system is able to be really balanced, the main Problem is how to get this point or if you even want to reach such a balanced point.

    For Example: If the DPS increases during the long episode on lvl 100, started with normal LIs and beginning of Essences to endsystem, to double (200%DPS at the end of lvl 100 compared to starting 100) there should be an update with a) higher mitigations of the enemies or 200% morale.
    Just an example of two characters (same level, same class):

    Character A
    - mediocre gear (purple and teal quest/instance rewards, non-imbued LIs)
    - 15k morale
    - 1k DPS

    Character B
    - top of the line gear (teal, golden essence gear with golden essences, imbued 1st agers)
    - 50k morale
    - 5k DPS

    Now please tell me how you are going to balance this.
    - You increase the morale and mitigations of opponents to levels that fit the damage output of character B? Character A will complain because he can't kill anything anymore.
    - You set the morale and mitigations of opponents to levels that fit the damage output of character A? Character B will complain (does so already) that content is too easy.
    - You set the morale and mitigations of opponents to the middle? Both characters will complain because it's too hard for one and too easy for the other.

    - You increase the damage output of opponents to fit the morale level of character B? Character A will complain because he dies in two seconds.
    - You set the damage output of opponents to fit the morale level of character A? Character B is in god mode and can solo any content.
    - You set the damage output of opponents to the middle? Both characters will complain because it's too hard for one and too easy for the other.

    There is no balance possible for game content as long as the basic elements are not balanced out. Those of us who played this game long enough know that there once was balanced content and characters. Of course there were differences between characters that ran around in quest/crafted gear and those that had instance/raid gear but those haven't been as extreme as with the essence and new LI system.
    If the essence and LI system were done right and with the proper restrictions we wouldn't be in the mess we are now. But then there would be less temptation to visit the store to buy the missing pieces and that's the only thing that counts nowadays.

 

 
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