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  1. #1

    Thumbs up Simple Ways to Improve Burgs (without being OP)

    Hey hey fellow burgs, I've been recently thinking about some simple ways to improve burgs without making us over-powered. I've read a lot that people really want to see burgs get aoe dps and overall more damage, but I dont think thats the best way to improve burgs. Burgs should really shine as debuffers in groups, and at the moment our yellow line just doesnt quite cut it. So, here are some of the changes/improvements I'd like to see for burgs:

    First off: Make Trick: Disable a level 10 or 12 acquired skill that is not stuck to a trait tree. At the moment burgs dont have any trick skills available outside yellow line, and it would be very nice to make at least one available to all trait trees. This wouldnt over-power the class at all and would be very useful.

    Second: Give Yellow Line an initial passive that allows 2 trick skills to stack at a time on a mob. At the moment 1 single trick is not very effective in groups, but allowing 2 to stack would make burg debuffing actually viable in groups. The Trickster capstone skill would then be changed to allow 3 tricks to stack during its duration. Again, this wouldnt make burgs over-powered, but would rather help make them viable debuffers.

    Third: Make Fellowship-Maneuvers useful again. This used to be a shining trait of burgs, and now sadly it just isnt useful anymore because groups can do more dps than the FM in the amount of time it takes to actually perform one. A bit of a boost to the damage/power heal/healing would be very nice to make FMs useful again. Also FM's are very much worthless against Bosses, because Bosses are almost always immune to FMs, so how to fix this? Add a capstone skill to Yellow Line called something like Mischievous Coordination that allows a Fellowship to use an FM on an immune Boss. To make it so this can't just be used all the time it would be put on a 10 or 15 minute cooldown. This would make burgs a bit more useful in Fellowships and really would not affect PVMP because burgs do not tend to run Yellow Line in PVMP.

    So there's my ideas for changes/improvements, let me know what you think (and please only constructive criticism and ideas in the comments, thanks). If you all have anymore non-over-powering changes you'd like to see, please feel free to pitch in.

  2. #2
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    A disarm and a slow that's not tied to DitE would be nice in all lines.

  3. #3
    At the moment, Burglar and Hunter are the only classes that don't get both physical/tactical mastery from their main stat. If they'd change it so that these classes also get tactical mastery from their main stat (agility), my burg would see ~40% increase in outgoing heals. This would apply to Relish Battle, Stick and Move, and Mischevous Glee/Clever Retort heals. For hunter... well it wouldn't change anything. But consistency is nice!

    Whether you think roughly 40% increase in outgoing healing would be OP for burg is up to you... but yellow line heals don't even qualify as off-heals at the moment. This could be an easy way to buff that a bit. Relish Battle/Stick and Move heal increase might cause some disgruntlement for 1v1s, but it'd hardly be gamebreaking anywhere else imo.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Lioncourt86 View Post
    At the moment, Burglar and Hunter are the only classes that don't get both physical/tactical mastery from their main stat. If they'd change it so that these classes also get tactical mastery from their main stat (agility), my burg would see ~40% increase in outgoing heals. This would apply to Relish Battle, Stick and Move, and Mischevous Glee/Clever Retort heals. For hunter... well it wouldn't change anything. But consistency is nice!

    Whether you think roughly 40% increase in outgoing healing would be OP for burg is up to you... but yellow line heals don't even qualify as off-heals at the moment. This could be an easy way to buff that a bit. Relish Battle/Stick and Move heal increase might cause some disgruntlement for 1v1s, but it'd hardly be gamebreaking anywhere else imo.
    Also, if BB traps are indeed tied to tactical damage, this would help out the Burglar in that aspect of gameplay.. which it needs.

    /signed.

  5. #5
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    One addition

    I would only make one suggestion to this list as it's entirely reasonable. And as a Red/Blue burg hybrid type player, I feel this change would help all Burgs. My suggestion is to:

    * Replace the Critical Chain Skills Critical Rating with Critical Chain Skills Critical Chance

    Yes, this is a request to re-instate this legacy as the current legacy does not seem to function correctly and the Critical Chain Skills Critical Chance legacy was the type of legacy that allowed burglars to be effective parts of fellowships, small and large, and raids.

    I often read about our single-target burst DPS from CDG, but the only way to access that is by going red line. You go any other way as a Burg and getting that single-target burst DPS isn't there. I just don't see a skill because even though All In has a bit hit for big damage, you had best hope your enemy ends with All in because if they don't, the costs of failing on All In are epic, cdg doesn't have that fail chance, it just has a cooldown and no negative effects for not ending it in time. I don't see that big burst of DPS in yellow line either. But by re-instating this legacy, whether a burg traits red, blue, yellow or a hybrid it allows the burg to become a valued member of some of the harder group content because that allows us to keep our other skills going. This doesn't make a Burg overpowered, rather because of the inherent weakness of the class, it actually levels the class back up to there others and like I said, allows us to be valued members of harder group content again. I think that's a legitimate value addition for this class.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by dagorironfist View Post
    Yes, this is a request to re-instate this legacy as the current legacy does not seem to function correctly and the Critical Chain Skills Critical Chance legacy was the type of legacy that allowed burglars to be effective parts of fellowships, small and large, and raids.

    I often read about our single-target burst DPS from CDG, but the only way to access that is by going red line. You go any other way as a Burg and getting that single-target burst DPS isn't there. I just don't see a skill because even though All In has a bit hit for big damage, you had best hope your enemy ends with All in because if they don't, the costs of failing on All In are epic, cdg doesn't have that fail chance, it just has a cooldown and no negative effects for not ending it in time. I don't see that big burst of DPS in yellow line either. But by re-instating this legacy, whether a burg traits red, blue, yellow or a hybrid it allows the burg to become a valued member of some of the harder group content because that allows us to keep our other skills going. This doesn't make a Burg overpowered, rather because of the inherent weakness of the class, it actually levels the class back up to there others and like I said, allows us to be valued members of harder group content again. I think that's a legitimate value addition for this class.
    In either a red-blue hybrid spec, or a blue-red hybrid spec (either having GA, FB, and Exposed Throat unlocked), I doubt I get locked out of my crit chain skills more than once in a minute. Buffing crit chain crit chance would be a nice buff to dps (too nice, I would say), but even if it eliminated this once per minute crit chain lockout, when you consider that you'll do ~35-40 crit chain skills in a minute, that is small potatoes. For players investing in yellow line (either as their spec or spending hybrid points there) they are no longer carrying all 4 crit chain skills, meaning they have 1-3 more non-crit chain skills to put in a rotation even if they use every crit chain skill as it comes off cooldown, meaning the chances of being locked out of the crit chain are even smaller since they will be taking so many more roles to unlock it in the same time period.

  7. #7
    im a returning burglar, and having much time to let my thoughts wander while doing countless thorog and epic battle runs, i couldnt help but gather up some opinions on class design and such. im well aware of the fact that my posting them here will lead nowhere, but i still want to get them of my chest. so very long and probably not very well structured/thought out post incoming.

    Quote Originally Posted by ramulus View Post
    The Trickster capstone skill would then be changed to allow 3 tricks to stack during its duration. Again, this wouldnt make burgs over-powered, but would rather help make them viable debuffers.
    allowing 3 same tricks on one target would be pretty damn strong though
    (+30% miss chance) x3
    (+20% attack duration; -15%damage) x3

    the way i see it is this: yellow burg is actually quite ok in terms of what he can bring to the party. he can gimp enemys with debuffs/crowd control and is able to increase incoming damage to a single target quite a bit, while having enough survivability to stay in the midst of battle.

    while this sounds good on paper, there are several problems connected with the mischief maker trait line, otherwise it obviously would be more popular. the main problem certainly is, that there just isnt any real raid content that would require heavy debuffing or crowd control. damage is the name of the game, and oftentimes AoE over single target.

    next big problem i see is that mischief maker just doesnt seem fun to play. the lack of a real crit chain makes for lackluster gameplay. and you have all these tricks but it feels unrewarding to spam them again and again just to overwrite and do miniscule damage while doing so. and im sorry for all those healing burgs out there, but healing just seems like a total design fail to me. it doesnt fit the class at all and its badly implemented on top of that. in short: the way it is now you have to juggle multiple skills and cooldowns, just to get minor group heals and a nonstackable miniature hot... the power restore would be quite nice - only that its almost never needed....

    so how should the burglar be changed? i dont have any thought out class change suggestions with fancy numbers and such, but merely some, mostly unconnected(!), thoughts on what could maybe help the current situation (or at least provide some fun):

    mischief maker

    -one thing id really like to see is a buff to "a small snag/quite a snag". maybe add a way to increase the incoming dmg debuff, through legcay or trait. and the root doesnt help at all in most cases, maybe add a strong but short slow when it breaks? or make it profit from the 5s grace period, which it does not atm? granted, this is more of a pvmp related "wishlist item" by me.

    -part of the horrible gameplay in mischief are the skill animations of tricks. using tricks to make up for the lack of a crit chain feels really clunky. easy fix would be to just remove animations (like safe fall, r+a etc.), but this could be a bit over the top. but something to smooth out the rotation would be nice.

    -"trickster" has one of the more confusing mechanics in the game and its not really contributing to a fun gameplay imo. just make it a passive, so that its always possible to stack two tricks. or go crazy and allow three, but make them all different tricks.

    (another quick idea would be to leave trickster as a 10s buff skill, but instead upon activation the cooldown on your tricks is reduced to 1s. then allow multiple stacks of tricks that each only lasts a few seconds. your debuff capability would be insanely good for a short duration, and it would thus actually feel important to time trickster right.)

    -"trick: counter defence" is way too weak. its an offensive trick so just remove the -2% target crit chance and make the -bpe values higher and double them for the second classtrait point.

    -no idea what to do about healing, maybe just remove it and put in something useful instead.

    -burglars antidote should be without induction when traited. and make it clear 3 effects. or just remove it.

    -something that would require a complete overhaul of the yellow line would be to make the yellow burglar trap-based. i quite like the idea of fighting with traps, its one of the more fun aspects in epic battles for me. so many possibilities in this, but probably no point in spelling them out, as its never going to happen anyways but a quick and easy change would be to implement one or more useful traps as class items: just rework caltrops to be ground targetable and have actual effects. and yellow line could get traits to make them stronger... and... and....

    gambler

    again, i feel blue burg is actually quite ok in its current state. just some tweaks here and there to streamline gameplay would be nice.

    -i find myself never using "cash out". this skill needs some more spice to it. my suggestion would be:
    cash out on damage gamble = increased instant damage (this should do enough to make me want to use gamblers strike/cash out as often as possible)
    cash out on debuffing gamble = xx-xx% chance to gain a "victory effect", so "all in" debuff is prevented
    cash out on disableing gamble = reset cooldown on riddle, or just something else thats nice-to-have

    -"hedge your bet", same as cash out, i never use it. a million ways to make it useful, or just remove it.

    -while "blind bet" has its use, i find it strange its in the crit chain. and im not sure about this, but the fact that its a melee skill means it can bpe'd AND resisted, right? just take it out of the crit chain and make it tactical. put it on the same range as tricks for the cherry on top.

    -"gamblers strike": if "cash out" gets some love, this skill is fine. otherwise: using GS on a t6 gamble should refresh the timer on that gamble. change GS animation to the same as IFA, i see no reason for the vastly different animation/delay.

    -plz add a debuff icon for "disableing gamble"

    -"sharp eye": as weak as this trait currently is, i kind of like the idea of a "turtle mode", to forgo damage to gain a defensive boost. maybe something like: every second you stand still and are not using your crit chain you gain +5%dmg reduction, stacks up to x times? really not sure how this would play out and not even sure if it belongs in blue, maybe in yellow? i dont know, i just like the idea.

    for red i have nothing because i have not tried it. maybe a slight dmg buff? i really cant judge. i probably forgot or overlooked a lot of important stuff, but i have to end it at some point. and again, im not saying we NEED any or all of these changes, im just saying that seeing one or two of them ingame could be fun, so dont get too serious about it

    thanks for reading and a happy new year.
    K.
    Last edited by Kalyna; Jan 02 2016 at 04:35 PM.

  8. #8
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    Imo...

    Make Mischievous Glee available in all trait lines, and add a Power Restore component to it. That's really all that's needed...alongside fixing the useless +Rating legacies that plague every class.

    "It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed,
    though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope."

  9. #9
    Top of my list (which is very long) is changing the cool down for aim. Mine is at 1 minute and 11 seconds, which as far as I'm aware is as good as it gets.

    Before Coup de grâce came along, Surprise Strike was the highest burst DPS skill on the Burg as I recall. You'd use Aim to boost it. With Coup de grâce in QK, using aim prior to setting it off is pretty standard which means it's unavailable for 11 surprise strikes....and when it's off cool down, Coup de grâce is read anyway and you are better off using it on that skill.

    This effectively means that using aim using standard cool downs with surprise strike is pointless. Yes, I understand you can blow your ready and able skill to reset aim early, but that's a big price to pay.

    In my opinion, Aim would be better set at a 30 second cool down. This would mean you could use it once while Coup de grace is on cool down. I'd have a choice to use it with HIPS to do an surprise strike from stealth, or to couple the AIM skill with a cunning attack bleeder. Both of which would be a welcome bonus to the rotation and make much more sense than the current cool down on aim.

  10. #10
    Oh...another one that irritates me no end.

    Remove reflect damage from bleeder dots. This is particularly irritating in the Ettenmoors. I get the reflection damage skills, but they should only apply to the initial damage, not the dots ticking over. For a stealth class, you are punished badly because you can't keep in stealth with the bleeders on some far away mob somehow reflecting damage onto you. I can be 200m away an still be coping reflecting damage.

    This isn't just burgs, this must annoy wargs too.

  11. #11
    Purely for yellow line:

    Reduce the CD on marbles to 1m as a trait tree passive after a certain number of points. Or swap with Trickster as a skill choice, make that skill a passive. Yellow has no exta FM ability. This would add extra options for stuns, dps, heals, and the skill is based on a consumable.

    Bring back Confound and use as the "spreader" skill people have been talking about, make it tactical based (riddle, addle, tricks, reveal, etc). Yellow burgs know they do less DPS, so make them into force multiplers against mob groups, not just single targets.

    Make Snag a viable, usable CC skill by making normal hits a slow, crits a root, and devs a root + reset/reduce on tactical CDs (riddle, tricks, addle, removals, etc.). Reducing the animation would be super awesome, but not a big deal.

    These little additions would make me happy to stay yellow, as they add extra variables to the mix that seem to be expected but are missing.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by lord_rastas View Post
    Top of my list (which is very long) is changing the cool down for aim. Mine is at 1 minute and 11 seconds, which as far as I'm aware is as good as it gets.

    Before Coup de grâce came along, Surprise Strike was the highest burst DPS skill on the Burg as I recall. You'd use Aim to boost it. With Coup de grâce in QK, using aim prior to setting it off is pretty standard which means it's unavailable for 11 surprise strikes....and when it's off cool down, Coup de grâce is read anyway and you are better off using it on that skill.

    This effectively means that using aim using standard cool downs with surprise strike is pointless. Yes, I understand you can blow your ready and able skill to reset aim early, but that's a big price to pay.

    In my opinion, Aim would be better set at a 30 second cool down. This would mean you could use it once while Coup de grace is on cool down. I'd have a choice to use it with HIPS to do an surprise strike from stealth, or to couple the AIM skill with a cunning attack bleeder. Both of which would be a welcome bonus to the rotation and make much more sense than the current cool down on aim.
    Aim on a 30s cd would to nothing to change how often surprise strike is(n't) used. Aim on a 30s cd would mean everyone would run the Osg aim dev set and use it on cunning attack every time, since improved dev cunning attack is by far the best dps skill burg has.

    Surprise strike needs a new animation so it isn't slower than the 2 and 3 attack skills and a buff to its base dmg so it isn't such a massive penalty if it doesn't crit.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Aim on a 30s cd would to nothing to change how often surprise strike is(n't) used. Aim on a 30s cd would mean everyone would run the Osg aim dev set and use it on cunning attack every time, since improved dev cunning attack is by far the best dps skill burg has.

    Surprise strike needs a new animation so it isn't slower than the 2 and 3 attack skills and a buff to its base dmg so it isn't such a massive penalty if it doesn't crit.
    Agree regarding the animation. Disagree with how it would be used. Key words are burst DPS. Eitherway reducing aim cool down gives the Burg some options here that can be employed for the situation. Aim cool down is simply too long and restricts options like our examples.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Aim on a 30s cd would mean everyone would run the Osg aim dev set and use it on cunning attack every time, since improved dev cunning attack is by far the best dps skill burg has.
    It used to be. Cunning Attack got a massive nerf, unnoticed by many. Whether the initial hit does crit/devastate or not, does not have any influence on the following DOTS. Which leads me to my two main requests (for red line):


    - Bring back our "old" Cunning Attack (=let all DOTS crit if the initial hit was a crit)

    - Bring back our "old" + Critical Chain Skill Chance Legacy


    The burglar class is still very fun and viable for PvP, but those two changes would help a lot.

    Cheers.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Fawkes8 View Post
    It used to be. Cunning Attack got a massive nerf, unnoticed by many. Whether the initial hit does crit/devastate or not, does not have any influence on the following DOTS. Which leads me to my two main requests (for red line):


    - Bring back our "old" Cunning Attack (=let all DOTS crit if the initial hit was a crit)

    - Bring back our "old" + Critical Chain Skill Chance Legacy


    The burglar class is still very fun and viable for PvP, but those two changes would help a lot.

    Cheers.
    Eh.. actually (at least, if it's not changed in U17), it does have influence.. and a lot.
    It doesn't make the individual ticks crit by default, but the base bleed definitely is higher if you crit, and even higher if you dev.

  16. #16
    True, should have made my point clearer. What i wanted to say is whether or not the initial hit crits, does not have any influence on the crit of the DOTS. It does in fact influent the base damage, but nevertheless a crit CA opener used to guarantee all the dots to crit in the past.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fawkes8 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker
    Aim on a 30s cd would mean everyone would run the Osg aim dev set and use it on cunning attack every time, since improved dev cunning attack is by far the best dps skill burg has.
    It used to be. Cunning Attack got a massive nerf, unnoticed by many. Whether the initial hit does crit/devastate or not, does not have any influence on the following DOTS.
    Actually it has. If you force a devastate.
    I only have the old Hytbold set, but I assume the new one works the same way.
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  18. #18
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    I take back my prior post, I wasn't really thinking of just how trash Surprise Strike is now...

    It should be Immediate. Bam, instantly fixed skill, all of its legacies suddenly become worthwhile, and one of the signature skills of the class ceases to be a joke. And best of all, for the Devs, it's such an easy and simple change to implement.

    "It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed,
    though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope."

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by dwarfThar View Post
    Actually it has. If you force a devastate.
    I only have the old Hytbold set, but I assume the new one works the same way.
    You are right. My request remains unaffected though

    @Spelunker: I was mistaken, sry mate.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by infinitewhimsy View Post
    I take back my prior post, I wasn't really thinking of just how trash Surprise Strike is now...

    It should be Immediate. Bam, instantly fixed skill, all of its legacies suddenly become worthwhile, and one of the signature skills of the class ceases to be a joke. And best of all, for the Devs, it's such an easy and simple change to implement.
    Nice.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, yellow burgs need some way of spreading AOE bleeds or at least debuffs - I like the confound idea; maybe AOE startling twist should be able to spread any debuff that is currently active on the target (and would make green burg - blue/yellow - potentially very powerful).

    Mob FM immunity to knockdown and FM damage shouldn't prevent the ability to carry out FMs (e.g. the old 3 green 2 blue) that benefit the FS. Especially useful when you're a yellow burg in raids... bit like a Clever Retort on steroids, which suggests the code already exists to do something like this.

    One of the main nerfs to burgs in group content, frankly, has been the number of mobs that are CJ- and CC-immune.

    And I so wish the yellow capstone was the mounted combat skill Impugn Character. Make one mob in a pull attack its friends for 10 seconds + trick duration bonus... epic.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Aedfrith View Post
    And I so wish the yellow capstone was the mounted combat skill Impugn Character. Make one mob in a pull attack its friends for 10 seconds + trick duration bonus... epic.
    Make that two of us.
    IMO this would be the single greatest thing for a Yellow Burg... and it would be endlessly entertaining.

  22. #22
    As a single target, melee only, dps class, that is highly dependent on positional damage, we really need to be able to out dps any class in the game on a stationary training dummy in order to be competitive in a live environment where we have to chase after mobs. We can do good parses on a training dummy but other classes can do better. Either we need a buff of they need a nerf. (There are pros and cons to each approach.)

    We are VERY good as a solo class, but we are not desirable in group content.
    - Our debuffs are not needed or desired in group content
    - Our cc is not needed or desired in group content
    - Our healing is insignificant in group content
    - Our AOE... never mind we dont have AOE
    - We are the only "support" class in the game that cant do an out of combat rez (If you consider us a support class)

    SUGGESTIONS TO FIX GROUP UNTILITY
    - DPS - Restore the +15% crit chance from the crit chain skills crit chance legacy (it was nerfed to crit rating)
    - DPS - Fix the issues with off hand attacks not doing the correct amount of crit/dev crit damage
    - Healing - give us more tactical mastery and allow our heals to crit
    - Debuffs - Make Reveal Weakness an AOE passive effect (30m radius?) when we are in Yellow line. (That will allow us to compete with the group wide damage boost from classes like captains)
    - Just for kicks - give us an out of combat rez
    Merridan - Burglar lvl 105 (Rank 12)
    Gormadan - Minstrel lvl 105 (Rank 4) : Traldan - Captain lvl 105 : Celebdan - Weaver (Rank 11)

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_rastas View Post
    Top of my list (which is very long) is changing the cool down for aim. Mine is at 1 minute and 11 seconds, which as far as I'm aware is as good as it gets.

    Before Coup de grâce came along, Surprise Strike was the highest burst DPS skill on the Burg as I recall. You'd use Aim to boost it. With Coup de grâce in QK, using aim prior to setting it off is pretty standard which means it's unavailable for 11 surprise strikes....and when it's off cool down, Coup de grâce is read anyway and you are better off using it on that skill.

    This effectively means that using aim using standard cool downs with surprise strike is pointless. Yes, I understand you can blow your ready and able skill to reset aim early, but that's a big price to pay.

    In my opinion, Aim would be better set at a 30 second cool down. This would mean you could use it once while Coup de grace is on cool down. I'd have a choice to use it with HIPS to do an surprise strike from stealth, or to couple the AIM skill with a cunning attack bleeder. Both of which would be a welcome bonus to the rotation and make much more sense than the current cool down on aim.
    I have stopped playing my burg since update 15 or 16 i think it was in the Moors he is a rank 10 and i enjoyed playing form lvl 50 cap through but every other class has better self healing better numbers from stats and are needed more in group make ups.. for the last year of more Burgs have been sitting in the back and little has been done since the Dev left/moved/told to do otherwise.

    I agree they need to change the animation to SS so that it is able to be used in a rotation effectively. I think Aim from stealth should be a Devestate like the set bonus and if used out of stealth its just a crit.

    They need to change our CA bleeds back to intital cirt hit turns all pulses to crits.

    Evade needs to work so that actual 70-75% (or watever your evade is at) will be avoided like in the old days.


    Guild wars stealth class had an epic skill you could port 10-15m and then click the skill again and port back but Turbine server cant handle Raid v Raid let alone porting skills.

  24. #24
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    I've been reflecting on this thread since I last posted. I've since gone and run the daily quests at the North and South gates of the Pelennor, big battles and even did a little more pvmp. I traited differently and used different set-ups just to test dynamics out because I wanted to make sure I've got the bigger perspective. On my own end, I've been a bit to focussed on the Crit Chain Skills Crit Chance legacy. Although to be honest it sounds like re-instating this legacy would be an across-the-board win for all burglars. And I don't believe that putting this one to bed is as tough as it sounds because that legacy used to exist and there are parallels in other classes that are capped. I do believe re-instating this legacy is a big win-win for the entire class!

    But there's a few other topics raised in this thread that gave me pause for thought. On the topic of Surprise Strike and cool down on Aim, I agree with both trains of thought. The first is that if Surprise Strike had its animation fixed, I would use it in my rotation. I don't use it because the sad fact is that with my set-up for pve, I can hit 1 - 9 and have nine different points of attack that all hit at a faster rate than Surprise Strike because of its slow animation. And especially in a pvmp where I've found having a multitude of offensive options is necessary for a Burglar (doubly against Wargs and Spiders), the animation for this skill is way too slow and by the time I get the Surprise Strike off I've been shredded hard because we're squishy. So in a pvmp situation this skill seems not remotely ideal. However, the damage from it is considerable enough that if the animation time was sped up to be on par with Subtle Stab I'd have to give it a serious second look as something I'd want in my rotation. I see the increased speed of the animation time to get the skill off as a nice trade-off to not reduce the cool down time from 10sec (although a 7sec cool down time would be really nice) nor do I think it needs an uptick in its DPS either.

    When it comes to the cool down on Aim idea, in playing in the past few days I've come to think that maybe Aim should be a "hard" burglar skill with a flat 1m cool down and then subject to Well Practiced and spending other trait points. In a pve dynamic, especially the harder T2C content, this skill would make the class valuable in larger groups as it can maneouver in behind the boss (for example) and actually maximize the positional damage. I can see Aim on a boss being used twice. That could be a pretty impressive contribution from a Burglar. From the pvmp perspective, this shouldn't have a negative effect either. Having gone into the Moors of late, a Burglar is there to help. We're not going in swords a swinging that's for sure. Sure I'm working on something a little bit more Moors-specific than my typical landscape gear because I've come to believe that if I want to keep enjoying the Moors I'm going to need something a little bit more tailored. But my greater point is that in my Moors gaming, the scraps that I'm involved in that go longer than a 45-60 seconds have always involved multiple freeps and creeps on both sides. In a 1v1, it rarely goes longer than that threshold so I don't see room for complaints on this making the class overpowered. EDIT: And in a 2v1 or 3v1 or greater, unless it's two r0s, that scrap is going to be over nice and quick too. Have you seen what multiple wargs can do?

    I'm also for lowering the inherent cool down on HiPS. Starting it at 7 mins has always seemed a bit over the top. And in a PvMP situation, it's amazing to watch the Wargs dive in and out stealth. I can't believe I'm about to say this but I'd like a little more ability to do what a warg can do on the stealth end. Maybe start the initial HiPS cool down at 5 mins and do the reductions from there.

    As for the out of combat or group rez and aoe attack, I saw a post that said mischievous glee healing across the board. I think that would be hilarious in red and blue line and make a Burglar a wanted commodity in group play. If that can be worked out, I would be all for it. And for Yellow-line Burgs, maybe the bonus would be for an AoE rez skill. I still don't want an AoE attack. The nature of the class is up close and personal and I don't think it's needed but an AoE rez skill might make yellow line Burglars a hot commodity in group play.

    I will always go back to the caveat that I'm not a programmer but I don't see how some of these changes like reducing the speed to use Surprise Strike or reducing the base cool down times on Aim or HIPS would be intense on the programming side. These seem like they could be very quick changes as they are functions of a timing mechanism and not a creation of a new mechanic, equation or animation. But some others (like mischievous glee healing across the board for instance) I can see being a bit code-heavy. From a gaming perspective, I don't see how these types of timing changes would make the class overpowered. I seem them maybe balancing the class upwards a bit more to make it more friendly for group content. I don't see this as anything but a win-win for all the players.

    EDIT: I made a couple of logic corrections in a couple of statements.
    Last edited by dagorironfist; Jan 08 2016 at 01:19 PM.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    559
    The Burglar is a redundant class and has been for some time .

    We have no purpose in pve or pvp as our survivability is poor .

    Whilst our sustained dps is still pretty good I'd take an increase in damage output any time . We need increased base mits all round and please give me more speed in stealth it's like "let's enter slug mode" I get it that wargs have sprint but give us a skill where even for a brief period we can move quicker than that useless skill that never works properly anyway ie hips .

    Do we still even have a Burg developer ? Bet he sits at a ###### desk near the loo .

    Sad , very sad

 

 
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