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  1. #1

    Creep Heal and Love

    After the "Creep Love" we are experimenting some healers being soloed by some freep classes (Wardens, champs, etc...)

    The Mastery Corruptions is giving now 5% of damage which does not increase the outgoing heal, the creep heal got nerfed.

    The new damage food also does not increase the outgoing heal.

    So, paraphrasing Bob marley's song:

    "Is this love, is this love, is this love, is this love that I'm feelling?"

  2. #2
    Creeps don't need heals boosted (WL could use few skills more) but freeps need several things nerffed which would make PVE and PVP so much better.

  3. #3
    Any creep healer above rank 8 that is being soloed by 1 dps just simply has no clue how to pvp IMO.

    You gained -10% inc damage and 20% morale last update I think that more then makes up for the 2%? maybe less outgoing heals you lost.
    Formerly Derlan of Arkenstone, Thistlebeard of Crickhollow, Thistlehair of Brandywine. Once again Derlan of Arkenstone. Your Welcome for the $75 WB.

    Auzue, Number (Arkenstone)

  4. #4
    I would also say, creep heals are ok.

    In my opinion the problem is creeps dmg compared to freeps heal/morale.

  5. #5
    Creep heals are ok - lower the freep heals and give the reavers a bit more damage again, so they can actually kill something..

    PVP with too much healing is just boring. And yes, i play a defiler^^

  6. #6
    CReep heals are not in a bad place, but if you get ratted by 3 fire rk, you are dead.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by branvogil View Post
    CReep heals are not in a bad place, but if you get ratted by 3 fire rk, you are dead.
    Are you suggesting that creep heals need to get buffed then?
    Selembar - R12 - Minstrel
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilantuk View Post
    Any creep healer above rank 8 that is being soloed by 1 dps just simply has no clue how to pvp IMO.

    You gained -10% inc damage and 20% morale last update I think that more then makes up for the 2%? maybe less outgoing heals you lost.

    Just for curiosity...
    What's you HPS on your creep healer?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Corinthians View Post
    Just for curiosity...
    What's you HPS on your creep healer?
    HPS has no meaning, at all. You need to know when to time your big heals/manage your small heals, not go for as much HPS as possible.
    Feailuve - Akabath
    [EN]Evernight

  10. #10
    Creep heals are so weak compared to freep dps that on the positive side heal spamming is not much of an issue for one side. With already just one good geared and strong class (like warden..) on a healer it needs more skills for the creep healer to stay alive (and vs very good geared freeps maybe even hardly possible) than for the freep to get the win. So I can see, and agree with it, the point others make for not buffing creep heals, so we can avoid healstacking. Without a doubt the better solution would be a massive decrease to freep healing to bring it on the same lvl in comparison to the dps of the other side.

    Now the problem is: Will they ever nerf the heals considering it will also effect the pve side, especially with the amount needed? If not it may, as much as that will hurt for healstacking, be the only solution to buff creep heals to bring some balance.

    Maybe the best long time solution would be a system that values the freep stats different in pvmp than in the pve regions. So that for example a huge amount of tactical mastery results in a lot less healing than currently and generally the difference between good and bad gear is not that extreme anymore. While on the other hand low stat values get not nerfed or even buffed (because as much of a joke WLs and Defs are compared to freep heals, even they can vs bad geared/scaled freeps be op).

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by giliodor View Post
    hps has no meaning, at all. You need to know when to time your big heals/manage your small heals, not go for as much hps as possible.

    lol

    .....

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Scet View Post
    Now the problem is: Will they ever nerf the heals considering it will also effect the pve side, especially with the amount needed? If not it may, as much as that will hurt for healstacking, be the only solution to buff creep heals to bring some balance.
    I don't know why so much people want buffs to creep heals -.-

    Heal wouldn't change anything. Creeps need more damage, not heal. Even if they would buff creep heals it wouldn't change much besides nobody would die.

    I agree reducing freep heal would maybe the best solution but if turbine don't do this, creeps need more dmg to compete with freeps.

  13. #13
    I say heals should meet somewhere in the middle. Let's face it, a big defiler heal that usually hits for 20k at the most isn't going to cut it when most creeps have 60k+ morale. What they need to do is put heals on a percentage like mini heals. For example, the big heal would be 50% of max health, instead of "restores 20k health points" (or whatever it currently says). Creeps really didn't need a morale boost at all, they just needed to put everything on percentage tables, and nerf some of freep's damage. It would also be better if the heal percentages on freeps were lowered, or at least the cds on big heal skills were increased. There's so many ways it could be fixed, but turbine just can't seem to get it right.
    Eternal bonkins

    ~Nadyah, Venomvain, Temarine, Demri

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilantuk View Post
    Any creep healer above rank 8 that is being soloed by 1 dps just simply has no clue how to pvp IMO.

    You gained -10% inc damage and 20% morale last update I think that more then makes up for the 2%? maybe less outgoing heals you lost.
    Maybe one dps class can't kill a creep healer but what about two? When I am grouped with one more dps class we are able to nuke a single creep healer.
    The real questions are:
    Can a single creep healer survive more than two dps classes? No, except if these dps classes are terrible...
    Can a single freep healer survive more than 5 dps creeps? Yes
    Does freep heals need a nerf or creep heals a buff? Yes

  15. #15
    I never said creep heals are good I said a decent healer doesn't die to 1 dps class like the OP is suggesting they do.

    5 creep dps not able to kill one healer I have never personally witnessed. Personally I say they do nothing to heals and make the heal debuffs stack again problem solved IMO. Also make power a much bigger deal like it used to be so its not an unlimited supply.
    Formerly Derlan of Arkenstone, Thistlebeard of Crickhollow, Thistlehair of Brandywine. Once again Derlan of Arkenstone. Your Welcome for the $75 WB.

    Auzue, Number (Arkenstone)

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilantuk View Post
    I never said creep heals are good I said a decent healer doesn't die to 1 dps class like the OP is suggesting they do.

    5 creep dps not able to kill one healer I have never personally witnessed. Personally I say they do nothing to heals and make the heal debuffs stack again problem solved IMO. Also make power a much bigger deal like it used to be so its not an unlimited supply.
    Oh I get you now but honestly a nerf on freep heals or a buff on creep heals would be awesome.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilantuk View Post
    I never said creep heals are good I said a decent healer doesn't die to 1 dps class like the OP is suggesting they do.

    5 creep dps not able to kill one healer I have never personally witnessed. Personally I say they do nothing to heals and make the heal debuffs stack again problem solved IMO. Also make power a much bigger deal like it used to be so its not an unlimited supply.
    i'd be fine with them stacking IF it was seperate debuffs. multiple vt's stacking or something would be ridiculous
    Lugbur, R11 Reaver ./. Guthfred, R9 Captain ./. Guthblade, R9 Chamption ./. Muzluck, R9 Warg + Various other toons of different rank and class.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoldenFox View Post
    I say heals should meet somewhere in the middle. Let's face it, a big defiler heal that usually hits for 20k at the most isn't going to cut it when most creeps have 60k+ morale. What they need to do is put heals on a percentage like mini heals. For example, the big heal would be 50% of max health, instead of "restores 20k health points" (or whatever it currently says). Creeps really didn't need a morale boost at all, they just needed to put everything on percentage tables, and nerf some of freep's damage. It would also be better if the heal percentages on freeps were lowered, or at least the cds on big heal skills were increased. There's so many ways it could be fixed, but turbine just can't seem to get it right.
    Minstrel heals aren't like that (% based). Just wanted to point it out. If you want to compare defi, you should compare it to RK, which can crit 18k on tank with the epic for the ages. Usually around 10-12k.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    Minstrel heals aren't like that (% based). Just wanted to point it out. If you want to compare defi, you should compare it to RK, which can crit 18k on tank with the epic for the ages. Usually around 10-12k.
    I haven't played mini in awhile, so maybe the tooltip changed. And rk is meant to be a damage class. Defiler is the Creep's main healing class, with sucky dps (unlike rk who has some nasty crits). Mini is freep's main healing class (which btw is currently more powerful than rk in both heals and dps). It wouldn't be so bad if we had trait trees, so I could have great heals and no dps, or have great dps and very little heals or no group heals.

    Whoever says that defilers shouldn't be compared to the mini class is a ninny, because it is meant to be a mini's counterpart for creep side. While WL is meant to be more like a guard.
    Eternal bonkins

    ~Nadyah, Venomvain, Temarine, Demri

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoldenFox View Post
    I haven't played mini in awhile, so maybe the tooltip changed. And rk is meant to be a damage class. Defiler is the Creep's main healing class, with sucky dps (unlike rk who has some nasty crits). Mini is freep's main healing class (which btw is currently more powerful than rk in both heals and dps). It wouldn't be so bad if we had trait trees, so I could have great heals and no dps, or have great dps and very little heals or no group heals.

    Whoever says that defilers shouldn't be compared to the mini class is a ninny, because it is meant to be a mini's counterpart for creep side. While WL is meant to be more like a guard.
    Minstrel heals never been what you claim it to be.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoldenFox View Post
    Mini is freep's main healing class (which btw is currently more powerful than rk in both heals and dps).
    I laughed.

    Post too short
    MacSwaggis (formerly MacHaggis) R12 HNT , HeavyHaggis R10 GRD, Scrubtain R7 CPT
    Haggisbash R8 RVR , Haggisgash R7 WL

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcatrazz View Post
    I don't know why so much people want buffs to creep heals -.-

    Heal wouldn't change anything. Creeps need more damage, not heal. Even if they would buff creep heals it wouldn't change much besides nobody would die.

    I agree reducing freep heal would maybe the best solution but if turbine don't do this, creeps need more dmg to compete with freeps.
    I agree mostly, a big buff to creep heals would be "third best" option, since it should not be the main aim to get the extreme op heals of freeps to both sides. To get the "creep dmg/freep heals"-relation on par with "freep dmg/creep heals"-relation it would need a massive boost to creep dps (more than double to bring it even comparable near), so freep stats would in morale need an upgrade in reaction. While I am not a fan of these big morale numbers, that freeps will then have too (like creeps had to get after hd), it would at least be rather able to balance: comparable freep-monster morale, hopefully comparable-freep-creep dps/heals.* So while the big freep heal nerf is prefered I think your solution would be a good one and sustaining too.

    *In this quote should also be the strong cooldown skills some classes have be adjusted in though (so make classes who have no strong "win"-button stronger, others who have skills that for example give nrly complete heal to full morale weaker)

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by siipperi View Post
    Minstrel heals never been what you claim it to be.
    Okay, let's pull up the tooltip for the heals on the blue line (watcher of resolve) trait tree for you:

    1. Poignant phrases: +20% healing mod
    2. soothing voice: +10% outgoing healing effect modifier
    3. strong appeal: up to +5% crit chance of heals
    4. improved bolster courage: +20% bolster courage healing
    5. inspiring finish: each stack will cause coda of resonance to add +3% outgoing healing up to 15%: +30 inspiring finish application chance
    6. Improved chord of salvation: chord of salvation will grant your target +1% of their max morale for every nearby ally. Chord of salvation now grants a fellowship-wide HoT

    The heal skills alone aren't percentage based, but the improvements are. Defiler does not have anything remotely similar to this. It would make everything more simple if heals on both sides were directly percentage based, without improvements from a trait tree.
    Eternal bonkins

    ~Nadyah, Venomvain, Temarine, Demri

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoldenFox View Post
    Okay, let's pull up the tooltip for the heals on the blue line (watcher of resolve) trait tree for you:

    1. Poignant phrases: +20% healing mod
    2. soothing voice: +10% outgoing healing effect modifier
    3. strong appeal: up to +5% crit chance of heals
    4. improved bolster courage: +20% bolster courage healing
    5. inspiring finish: each stack will cause coda of resonance to add +3% outgoing healing up to 15%: +30 inspiring finish application chance
    6. Improved chord of salvation: chord of salvation will grant your target +1% of their max morale for every nearby ally. Chord of salvation now grants a fellowship-wide HoT

    The heal skills alone aren't percentage based, but the improvements are. Defiler does not have anything remotely similar to this. It would make everything more simple if heals on both sides were directly percentage based, without improvements from a trait tree.
    This is so freep healing classes cant get full potency of dps and heals at the same time. There are similar traits and skills on the other side as well, but as I said minstrel heals arent % based. If you cared to look every class get similar bonuses, that's how other side works, like it or not.

  25. #25
    imo, defilers heals are very low compared to freepside heals... defiler is the main healing class on creepside and our heals are useless, HoTs, Big heal meh. at least they should fix the damage from aud and mastery bonus and let it increase our heals like damage from corruptions.... i don't mind if defiler's heals stay like this if turbine will nerf freepside heals (which is impossible imo because the PVE stuff)... i also don't mind if we get like -50% damage and +50% heals class trait for who say we can dps and heal at the same time, well i want a healing class not a dps class so...
    Deadlyline r10 Warg- co'sang- Arkenstone

    Deathlyheals r13 defiler- Karnage- Arkenstone

 

 
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