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  1. #1

    4 years, nothing has changed for soloers and small groups

    Shoutout to a thread I made 4 years ago showing the creeps zerging around the map killing solo players: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...hlight=esdumby

    4 years later, Freeps and creeps are 1/6 the numbers they used to be, but creeps still manage to pull off some amazing pvp.




    Just a group of creeps looking for a fair fight


    1vs1 turns into a 2vs1 turns into a 3vs1, other spider is out of this screenshot


    Another great group of players looking for even fights, definitely not playing for points


    Freeps try to use ost exit to get out and spread the pvp
    Last edited by Esdumby2; Apr 23 2015 at 01:13 PM.

  2. #2
    6 creeps see 1 freep, they all run towards it thinking: 1vs6, seems like an even fight (except there was a group of freeps they could have been fighting elsewhere on the map)


    and again


    What happens when you try to solo and maybe get a small skirmish going at an outpost


    What happens when you actually get a small group going and try to fight a fair fight? Creeps succumb to their old ways


    Same small group. Thinking a keep may be beneficial. Nope, 11 creeps on screen, more downstairs.



    Nice PVPIng creeps. If you want freeps to play on this server, this wont cut it. Lots of them are fedup with your "tactics" as BAOS would call it. Take a looksie at old threads from 2011 and 2010, same thing, except back then there were enough creeps and freeps playing that getting caught by the creep raid wasnt so bad because there were 4-5 small creep groups elsewhere playing on the map; however, currently, there are 0 fights to be found outside of the creep raid.

    A group of 4 freeps can fight 6-7 creeps, but not 11.
    1 freep can fight 2 creeps and have a good fight, but 3+ is overkill.

    I get it, you have 15 players who want to pvp and only 4 freeps to fight. What to do? You can make the only action you have on the map log off, or you can split the group into 6-7 man groups and maybe have a good fight.

    I am not a zerger, never have been and never will be. My complaints against zerging are well documented on this forum (old forum account: Esdumby). I wont join groups larger than 6. Nightly, I will try to join a well balanced freep group and hope to find something to fight so that Your playstyle of grouping can have fun. I used to never join groups. My largest group in the past was 3 minstrels back in 2010. From what I've seen, a well balanced and geared group of 6 freeps can take on 10-12 creeps. I hope to find players who are geared and play well enough to do this in the future.

    You all say: take what you can get. Freeps did take what we could get 3 weeks ago and you not only zerged them with greater numbers. you zerged GV for 3 week straight so that none of the newer freeps come out anymore. Freeps with gear are at an advantage. Freeps without gear are at a huge disadvantage. You cant look at every freep and see a powerhouse. Gear is more important than it ever was in the past.

  3. #3
    Cant help but post this Gem:


    Dread's been coming on freepside saying he and the creeps are going to do 2 things:
    1. Not camp GV. In the 1 day these new guidelines have been in place, they have not been there that I've seen. Good job
    2. Look for even fights. In the 1 day this guideline was in place, already backtracking.

  4. #4
    Following the extended creep WC announcements the previous night I was really curious whether anything would change. Strangely, other than them not being at GV killing the undergeared freeps, nothing changed.

    The creeps are still winning through #'s advantage for the most part. The situation for the creeps is like someone trying to get credit for the first time. Most of them can't fight solo or small group and will not learn how to fight solo or small group because they never do it. I'm sure we'll have another 4-6 person group out soon, we'll see what the creep raid #'s end up counting in at before the end.

  5. #5
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    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Moofer View Post
    Following the extended creep WC announcements the previous night I was really curious whether anything would change. Strangely, other than them not being at GV killing the undergeared freeps, nothing changed.

    The creeps are still winning through #'s advantage for the most part. The situation for the creeps is like someone trying to get credit for the first time. Most of them can't fight solo or small group and will not learn how to fight solo or small group because they never do it. I'm sure we'll have another 4-6 person group out soon, we'll see what the creep raid #'s end up counting in at before the end.

    Funny Moof, Last night 90% of your group told us "Good Fights. It was fun". For the other 10% clearly you and rubie are doing nothing but complaining. The WC announcements was simply saying that we are not going to be at GV and some how it was extended / modified by you guys to "we are not going to zerg". Yes we have also attempted to keep the #'s as fair as we could and no we don't see a freep and all attack it. Please stop complaining a spreading false facts. You are simply trying to destroy the server and that simply not needed.
    Thanks,
    Flies

    P.S - This is a MMO (massively multiplayer online) GAME. THIS GAME IS NOT FOR SOLOS.
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  6. #6
    My group of Solo, or Duo for 1 fight at the end? I guarantee 90% of my group said nothing to you, in fact I can say without a doubt 100% of my group said nothing to you. I was indeed attacked by the entire creep group when I was clearly by myself, repeatedly. Don't really care, it's not like it's anything new. Look at rubie's screenshots if you think anything happened that what actually did.

    Have a good zerg day.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moofer View Post
    My group of Solo, or Duo for 1 fight at the end? I guarantee 90% of my group said nothing to you, in fact I can say without a doubt 100% of my group said nothing to you. I was indeed attacked by the entire creep group when I was clearly by myself, repeatedly. Don't really care, it's not like it's anything new. Look at rubie's screenshots if you think anything happened that what actually did.

    Have a good zerg day.
    Correction - when i said 90% of your group i meant the freeps we were fighting. Also take a look at rubies screenshots. Yes it shows a lot of creeps but what about the same number of freeps that were there during the fight. ( the all died an retreated except for rubies because rubie wants to complain ) So they all left then rubie took the screenshot. way to skew things rubie. way to skew things. Oh and one last thing. Yes rubie gets zerged. and he / she ( idk which it is ) will continue to get that because of this spying ( look at that screenshot above )

    Take care moof
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  8. #8
    Flies, i did not see you in any of those fights. Also, as I said it doesn't really matter other than the fact that you are misrepresenting things as usual. The creeps came off the TR ramp several times to attack just me. They even had a warg sprint down my horse and they all ran over toward OC to zerg. Get your facts straight. I'll give you specifics..here ya go.

    1. Kersh standing on 3 Hump alone, so I attack. Boom, Creep group barrels in from around V rock.

    2. Me Standing alone watching the creeps for a few mins toward goldie...tracked, tracked again...creep group zergs over.

    3. Me on horse between V Rock and Bears, they started to move toward me so i horsed off toward OC...Xia sprinted and caught me, so i started fighting him...creep group shows up with heals flying.

    4. Me rolling in to the creeps near GTR, zerged. No dead freeps, no recent fight, they were off somewhere else.

    5. Pure and I near a tree at the back door of TR, creeps on the broken wall. They all rush toward us, pure eats the death and I ride to GV.

    6. Final fights of the night were near HH, Champ and LM fighting Spider and WL (both part of the zerg crew), Pure and I jump in, WL dies, Spider tries to run. Catch spider kill it.
    Another LM rolls in resulting in 2LMs, 1Champ, 1Capt (2 sep groups). By the end of the fighting there 3 WLS, 1Defiler, 2 Spiders, 2 wargs, 2 BAs/5 Freeps in 2 groups of 2 and 3.


    There's specifics for ya, and at no stage during any of that had a freep group just wiped. In fact during 2 of those they had just taken the relic and had yet to return it to OR.

    As I said man, it's not like this is anything new. But the inability of current E Creeps to win small group and solo fights is directly related to the fact that you guys never even try to do it.

    Have a good zerg day.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by greatlord365 View Post
    Correction - when i said 90% of your group i meant the freeps we were fighting. Also take a look at rubies screenshots. Yes it shows a lot of creeps but what about the same number of freeps that were there during the fight. ( the all died an retreated except for rubies because rubie wants to complain ) So they all left then rubie took the screenshot. way to skew things rubie. way to skew things. Oh and one last thing. Yes rubie gets zerged. and he / she ( idk which it is ) will continue to get that because of this spying ( look at that screenshot above )

    Take care moof
    Look at my rightside chatbox. If that was true and I took the screenshot after all the other freeps left, their names would be in it, but they are not. My 4 person group are the only names in the chat. When I am alone, there are zero names in the chat but my own. When the creeps killed eorolore, only 1 name in the chat.

    People lie. Screenshots do not, which is why I take them.

    And LoL. I am not getting zerged because I spy. I am just getting zerged because that is what creepside does. I dont think eorlore spies or antinoma spies. Justify your actions however you like, but I'll continue to expose the fair play done by creepside.

  10. #10
    I blame Vyxe..... and I find it really fascinating that the community still call's it V Rock

  11. #11
    Hi V, hope you are well.

    Not sure who else does other than some of the older players. It's certainly a more elegant name than - the big rock in front of TR.

    Some renames that have taken place, TR Hotspot has become, Old TR hotspot.

    EC was moved, and is now Old EC, and Old OC is a spot now too.

    Take care

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by greatlord365 View Post
    The WC announcements was simply saying that we are not going to be at GV and some how it was extended / modified by you guys to "we are not going to zerg".
    By 'some how', are you referring to when Dread actually said something in world chat to the effect of 'we will attempt to fight with even numbers?' (Similar to what he admits in the above screenshot: 'I stated that we will attempt to fight with even numbers'?)



    I noticed that aspect of the world chat announcements was conspicuously absent from your post. Was it not part of the hotly debated week-long negotiation that led to the AEE/SE Nonaggression Pact of 2015? Was Dread improvising?



    Or was it left out of the post because the Pact had been broken already by the time of the post?



    I would think that saying 'we will attempt to fight with even numbers' would suggest 'we will attempt to not zerg.' But, from your post and Dread's guidelines/rules distinction in the SS above, it would seem that there is a vast difference between 'we will attempt to not zerg' and 'we are not going to zerg.'


  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by greatlord365 View Post
    P.S - This is a MMO (massively multiplayer online) GAME. THIS GAME IS NOT FOR SOLOS.

    Massive: There's nothing massive but the lag, about this game anymore. Especially on dead servers like E.

    Multiplayer: I don't know if you freepside, but currently it takes about 30 minutes to find a group for something, even for popular things. Same in moors, there's never nothing out to fight, unless it's US primetime. Questing creeps/freeps don't count.

    Online: That's about accurate.

    Using an argument like that to justify zerging is not only irrelevant, but also silly. Please get off the box. This server was known for its solo activity, just because you and people in your group can't, doesn't mean you get the right to hate/zerg on those that do. They are paying for the sub, just like you are, they can do what they want, and you can zerg if you want to, but be mature enough to take accountability and credibility for your actions and not make illogical arguments like those.

  14. #14
    Since transferring back, i have yet to see creeps wanting fair fights. The lack of good leaders on creepside has made most of the creeps a bunch of raid babies.
    What E was most known for... is now all gone.

    Original Challenger of the Abyss
    Alliance of the First Age ~ Crickhollow

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by numenos20 View Post
    Since transferring back, i have yet to see creeps wanting fair fights. The lack of good leaders on creepside has made most of the creeps a bunch of raid babies.
    What E was most known for... is now all gone.

    Hey now, you got one 2v2 from me and frum. Money well spent I'd say

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by namedisplay View Post
    Hey now, you got one 2v2 from me and frum. Money well spent I'd say
    Oh yeahhhh lol

    We have to have another, shamely... it got interrupted!

    PS, done with the wargie vid? i want to see it!

    Edit- should totally make a "How to play a warg' video. Wargs in this server totally need the help!

    Original Challenger of the Abyss
    Alliance of the First Age ~ Crickhollow

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moofer View Post
    Flies, i did not see you in any of those fights. Also, as I said it doesn't really matter other than the fact that you are misrepresenting things as usual. The creeps came off the TR ramp several times to attack just me. They even had a warg sprint down my horse and they all ran over toward OC to zerg. Get your facts straight. I'll give you specifics..here ya go.

    1. Kersh standing on 3 Hump alone, so I attack. Boom, Creep group barrels in from around V rock.

    2. Me Standing alone watching the creeps for a few mins toward goldie...tracked, tracked again...creep group zergs over.

    3. Me on horse between V Rock and Bears, they started to move toward me so i horsed off toward OC...Xia sprinted and caught me, so i started fighting him...creep group shows up with heals flying.

    4. Me rolling in to the creeps near GTR, zerged. No dead freeps, no recent fight, they were off somewhere else.

    5. Pure and I near a tree at the back door of TR, creeps on the broken wall. They all rush toward us, pure eats the death and I ride to GV.

    6. Final fights of the night were near HH, Champ and LM fighting Spider and WL (both part of the zerg crew), Pure and I jump in, WL dies, Spider tries to run. Catch spider kill it.
    Another LM rolls in resulting in 2LMs, 1Champ, 1Capt (2 sep groups). By the end of the fighting there 3 WLS, 1Defiler, 2 Spiders, 2 wargs, 2 BAs/5 Freeps in 2 groups of 2 and 3.


    There's specifics for ya, and at no stage during any of that had a freep group just wiped. In fact during 2 of those they had just taken the relic and had yet to return it to OR.

    As I said man, it's not like this is anything new. But the inability of current E Creeps to win small group and solo fights is directly related to the fact that you guys never even try to do it.

    Have a good zerg day.
    Ok Sounds Fair. Lol not. Basically I dont care if your a solo or not us (creeps) play as if there is a huge group on freepside even if there is not. we may not be grouped but the second something is called out every creep goes torwards that call out. Our communication is far superior then the freepside so i don't understand why everybody i here trying to complain. Its your own fault if you choose to run solo and its your own fault if you choose to have a ego issue with the rest of the freeps. Play together as a team and you will be good. And for our leaders... I dare you to come after us with a group. I dare you. You want to complain about our fighting but you can't even put a group together to fight us ? Turn that anger against us in motivation to fight us. Grow up children. We are not going to tailor our gameplay to your wants. Its simply not going to happen. We have changed how we play because we felt it was the best to do. And for this server is dead. lol kinda funny when our pop #'s are actually higher then they used to be. Its not our fault that you guys won't listen to somebody when they want to help with leading. Its not our fault that you have burned your chances with having a leader over there. You would be un-beatable if you simply put a group together.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by greatlord365 View Post
    Basically I dont care if your a solo or not us (creeps) play as if there is a huge group on freepside even if there is not.
    You must get some amazing fights with that collective attitude. Somehow i don't think that matters much to you.
    Carry on though, I'm enjoying this thread. More screenshots and clever pictures please!!!

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by greatlord365 View Post
    I dont care if your a solo or not us (creeps) play as if there is a huge group on freepside even if there is not. we may not be grouped but the second something is called out every creep goes torwards that call out. Our communication is far superior then the freepside so i don't understand why everybody i here trying to complain.



    Quote Originally Posted by greatlord365 View Post
    And for this server is dead.


    Quote Originally Posted by greatlord365 View Post
    Hello Everybody,

    By Joint decision by Ancient Evil of Elendilmir ( led by Dreadweaver ) and by Sauron's Eye ( Led by Muzrol ). The Two tribes have decided that none of our raids / groups / tribe members will go closer then 400 meters of GV. There will no longer be any GV Camps by our tribes. I have attached the Maps with a blue line of where we will not go past.

    Thanks,
    Muzrol


  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by greatlord365 View Post
    Ok Sounds Fair. Lol not. Basically I dont care if your a solo or not us (creeps) play as if there is a huge group on freepside even if there is not. we may not be grouped but the second something is called out every creep goes torwards that call out. Our communication is far superior then the freepside so i don't understand why everybody i here trying to complain. Its your own fault if you choose to run solo and its your own fault if you choose to have a ego issue with the rest of the freeps. Play together as a team and you will be good. And for our leaders... I dare you to come after us with a group. I dare you. You want to complain about our fighting but you can't even put a group together to fight us ? Turn that anger against us in motivation to fight us. Grow up children. We are not going to tailor our gameplay to your wants. Its simply not going to happen. We have changed how we play because we felt it was the best to do. And for this server is dead. lol kinda funny when our pop #'s are actually higher then they used to be. Its not our fault that you guys won't listen to somebody when they want to help with leading. Its not our fault that you have burned your chances with having a leader over there. You would be un-beatable if you simply put a group together.
    You do realize this is all prompted by you guys coming into WC and saying you are intent on making the moors more enjoyable and better pvp for everyone right? You even stated earlier in this thread that you do not see a solo freep and all attack it, yet now you are changing your story somewhat again. Incidentally you guys covered two points in WC that night; 1. the rule to not camp GV or Ost One shots. 2. To try to keep fights as fair as possible. It was just funny when the next day that went right out the window. I specifically asked dread what would happen at the bottom of the hilll, zerg or even numbers. He responded even numbers. You do realize you're contradicting yourselves from that WC convo as well as from post to post in this thread right?

    We offer to help all freeps setup and gear for more durable, effective pvp in EM OOC all the time. Most just aren't interested, or see it as some method of controlling them. It's not a secret how to build a good pvp toon, but it is easy to get it wrong. Everyone has their own agendas and way they want to play in the moors, and that's totally their prerogative. Unfortunately it resulted in them being farmed at GV for several months and many if not most of them don't even come out anymore.

    We do come out in a group every so often, you know this because when we do we do very well until the creep numbers swell to 15+, you know this because you're usually involved in the eventual raid with 5 healers and 3x our numbers. If that's how you guys want to win, that's up to you, or I dare you to actually learn to play your toons and fight us with equal numbers. I dare you! lol, not going to happen.

    In any case, it's hard to pull a raid together to deal with the #'s you guys bring to the fights when no one comes out to the moors anymore. Population #s creepside are high maybe, certainly not freepside. I have no idea what you're talking about when you reference when you say we do not listen to people wanting to lead, very confusing and likely just you misrepresenting something as usual.

    Please understand i'm not complaining, i've accepted that's how you guys play even though it's to your detriment as players IMO It has resulted in the necessity for you to have superior #s to win fights. My opinion certainly, but I don't see any creeps trying to establish a different reality.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by greatlord365 View Post
    Ok Sounds Fair. Lol not. Basically I dont care if your a solo or not us (creeps) play as if there is a huge group on freepside even if there is not. we may not be grouped but the second something is called out every creep goes torwards that call out. Our communication is far superior then the freepside so i don't understand why everybody i here trying to complain. Its your own fault if you choose to run solo and its your own fault if you choose to have a ego issue with the rest of the freeps. Play together as a team and you will be good. And for our leaders... I dare you to come after us with a group. I dare you. You want to complain about our fighting but you can't even put a group together to fight us ? Turn that anger against us in motivation to fight us. Grow up children. We are not going to tailor our gameplay to your wants. Its simply not going to happen. We have changed how we play because we felt it was the best to do. And for this server is dead. lol kinda funny when our pop #'s are actually higher then they used to be. Its not our fault that you guys won't listen to somebody when they want to help with leading. Its not our fault that you have burned your chances with having a leader over there. You would be un-beatable if you simply put a group together.
    Yeah who cares if you have a good fight when all you are interested in is points for a meaningless rank. Have fun getting it turning in quests I may even have some grimwood kindling you can have.
    Wolves couldn't care less what sheep think
    Sidheru R13 Elendilmir/Deathshryke R12 BA TWKSL Brandy

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by greatlord365 View Post
    Ok Sounds Fair. Lol not. Basically I dont care if your a solo or not us (creeps) play as if there is a huge group on freepside even if there is not. we may not be grouped but the second something is called out every creep goes torwards that call out. Our communication is far superior then the freepside so i don't understand why everybody i here trying to complain. Its your own fault if you choose to run solo and its your own fault if you choose to have a ego issue with the rest of the freeps. Play together as a team and you will be good. And for our leaders... I dare you to come after us with a group. I dare you. You want to complain about our fighting but you can't even put a group together to fight us ? Turn that anger against us in motivation to fight us. Grow up children. We are not going to tailor our gameplay to your wants. Its simply not going to happen. We have changed how we play because we felt it was the best to do. And for this server is dead. lol kinda funny when our pop #'s are actually higher then they used to be. Its not our fault that you guys won't listen to somebody when they want to help with leading. Its not our fault that you have burned your chances with having a leader over there. You would be un-beatable if you simply put a group together.
    From Orak/Ensnared/Oromay - to you.

    When you stand ontop of the hill looking down, it's easy to trash talk. Your entire post is subjective vomit that only like minded players would dare nose dive into for a drink. But since the gloves are off, ill take a shot!

    Who remembers Dhru/Cookie insulting Freepside and claimed that if Freeps had his superior leadership they'll win easily.... basically same thing this turkey just said. Well for those of you really keen to know the result...firstly LMAO! IT WAS HILARIOUS!
    So he flips from his usual Creep zerg and gets others to come help. His Fraid has 70% healers and uses the same good players and healers we all run with. He had 3 Captains, 5 Minis, Guard shield walling but only 3-4 dps! So Dhru runs around with his classic attitude keen to show how he can backup his statements. But Thy, Stylo and I log Creepside and charge in asap with taggers against his heal stacked raid with 4 blue OPs. Within the Reaver charge his Captain dies to Thys rvr and my BA. Rofl! With the help of heal tagging random Defilers (roughly 3-4) we totally annihilate his group of 12. It was like shooting fish on your plate already gutted. Hilarious! The pointless fights carried on for ages as all they could do was re-rezz constantly! I spoke to the Freep healers afterwards because they would run with me too, and all they could say was "oh it was horrible!"

    Just thought id remind everyone who might have forgotten. Just a big REMINDER. Anyone remember that day? I thought you might have by the bull*** being spoken.



    When ive logged in to duo with Stylo, we encounter a door/camp farm that we destroy which leads to Creeps logging off.
    WE HAVE NOTHING TO FIGHT. CREEPS RUN AND DONT COME BACK.
    Must be something to with the superior communication skills being sent to ppl to flee to bed early! Its funny to hear Creeps saying they log because they've got a life, when I know for many its same time as Stylo and the night is young!

    Ive fought one day when Creeps were grouped and outnumbering us. They had more healers then our dps, more dps then our healers. We lacked Lm stun immunity, Captain support and our Dps classes are not the best synergy. In our 6v12 my Hunter with Thys Champion were getting kills constantly against 3 ranked healers. We time our damage well and got kills efficiently everytime. We even won the battle by killing every healer and all the Creeps instantly fled...true snap shot of Creepsides mentality!

    You think you're sitting ontop of the hill because of your superior team work and communication?
    Superior tactics in this persons book is what followed next. Creepside brought 5 healers vs 2 Freepside dps classes, and 5 weavers, 3 bas, warg for 4 healers!? To be honest, it felt more like a compliment that Creeps needed that many.

    You confuse superior communication with greater numbers and crying for help.
    If a toddler cried for help it would not conclude superior communication (aka GTR map call out) - or if two sport teams play but one has double the numbers... it doesnt mean superior communication.

    I find it pointless trying to get PvMP when Creeps dont want to fight. I had 3v3 at Grams with only 3 that had the balls to fight. Good to see Bitesyou and Dominatrix so afraid of me they wouldnt even come in range to tag us.

    Beware of future changes.

  23. #23
    Join Date
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    This server is still plugged in???
    (signature removed due to poor data management)

    Blacktoegash, Blackspeak, Stenchofdeath, Blacktoes, etc ELENDILMIR

  24. #24
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    Lemme throw a hypothetical situation: 10 grouped freeps (Erolore-1, Pureevil, Whippet, Oromay, Stylo, Armlas, Angelwyn, Alberon, Araphorn, Achileez) see 6 grouped creeps (Dreadweaver, Troopah, Flies, Muzreaper, Ugmuk, Bitsalot) near V-rock....

    what happens?

    All freeps attack and creeps get rolled into the ground.. end of story.

    In update 12 I don't remember freeps being any bit gracious about ending the grams camps or giving the creeps any buffer zone... much less even vaguely attempting to have any kind of even number fights. The only rule we announced was the Southern Coldfells no-go rule... any statements about trying for even numbered fights are exactly that... statements about trying to have even numbered fights... If you want to take that as an official statement that Creepside tribes will be bending over backwards to accommodate every fluid situation in the moors to maintain even numbers than that is your mistake... and freeps certainly would never do the same for us.

    If anyone wants to experience true zerging by superior numbers... I suggest checking brandywine. Reports have it that some freep groups are even killing the grams 1-shotters...

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...jarn-Felarrows

    Historically:
    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...se-grams-camps
    Last edited by greatlord365; Apr 24 2015 at 05:47 PM.
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  25. #25
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    Then you guys sit there and don't come out into the moors for 2 weeks straight but yet you think you know something about the current moors state. LOL
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