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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    Focused Feedback Thread: Imbued Legendary Items

    Please use this thread for all feedback on Imbued Legendary Items. By keeping all comments and feedback to this thread, it will be easier for us to keep track of. All other threads on this will either be merged or closed.

    Here is a list of all the legacies. Please note that list is subject to change based on feedback, which is why we are posting this list now. Please give us your feedback on any of the changes listed here.


    New Legacy Old Legacy
    Current or Future supporting changes
    Beorning
    Bear Form Critical Defence Major Class Legacy: Out-of-combat Wrath Decay Out-of-combat wrath decay is now reduced for all Beornings. The old legacy has been replaced.
    Man Form Damage Major Class Legacy: Bear Form Movement Speed Bear Form Movement Speed is now increased for all Beornings. The old legacy has been replaced.
    Cry Damage Minor Class Legacy: Grisly Cry Fear Duration Grisly Cry’s Fear Effect now has increased duration (+4s) for all Beornings. The old legacy has been replaced.
    Call to Wild Physical Mastery Rating Major Weapon Legacy: Call to Wild Duration Call to Wild duration has been increased by 5s for all Beornings.
    Thickened Hide Tactical Mitigation Rating Major Weapon Legacy: Thickened Hide Duration Thickened Hide duration has been increased by 5s for all Beornings.
    Bee Swarm Critical Defence Rating Debuff Minor Weapon Legacy: Bee Swarm Debuff Duration None at this time.
    Rush Evade Rating Minor Class Legacy: Rush Duration None at this time.
    Burglar
    Cunning Attack Bleed Damage Major Weapon Legacy: Cunning Attack Bleed Stack Chance Cunning Attack Bleed Stack Chance is now increased for all Burglars (by +50%). The old legacy has been replaced.
    Provoke Critical Chance Debuff Minor Weapon Legacy: Riddle Range None at this time.
    Surprise Strike Damage Minor Class Legacy: Stealth Level Stealth Level is now a passive skill for all Burglars (available at level 50) which increases stealth level by 3. The old legacy has been replaced.
    Lucky Strike Critical Rating Minor Weapon Legacy: Trick Range Increased Trick Range is now included for Tricksters. All Trick skills have their range increased by 9m. The old legacy has been replaced.
    All in Melee Damage Minor Class Legacy: All In Buff Duration All In Buff Duration is now part of the Gambler’s seventh trait set bonus (Loaded Dice).
    Dust in the Eyes Miss Chance Minor Class Legacy: Pulse Modifier for Glee None at this time.
    Critical Chain Skills Critical Rating Major Class Legacy: Critical Chain Skills Critical Chance None at this time.
    Purge Corruption Damage Major Class Legacy: Specialization Skill Critical Buff Duration None at this time.
    Trick Resistance Penetration Major Class Legacy: Tricks Duration None at this time.
    Addle Tactical Damage Debuff Minor Class Legacy: Addle Induction Multiplier None at this time.
    Coup de Grâce Critical Rating Minor Class Legacy: Coup de Grâce Stealth Window None at this time.
    Reveal Weakness Incoming Damage Debuff Minor Class Legacy: Reveal Weakness Range None at this time.
    Captain
    Battle Shout Damage Major Weapon Legacy: To Arms Duration To Arms Duration has been increased for all Captains. The old legacy has been replaced.
    Cutting Attack Damage Major Weapon Legacy: Telling Mark Damage Telling Mark Damage is now part of the Advantageous Attack Trait. The old legacy has been replaced.
    Grave Wound Damage Major Weapon Legacy: Oathbreaker's Shame Duration Oathbreaker's Shame Duration has been added to Lead the Charge’s seventh trait set bonus (Master of War). The old legacy has been replaced.
    Battle-hardened Outgoing Healing Major Weapon Legacy: Pressing Attack Max Targets Pressing Attack Max Targets has been increased to 5 for all Captains.
    Muster Courage fear resist Minor Weapon Legacy: Tactics Duration Tactics Durations have been increased for all Captains (+15s). The old legacy has been replaced.
    Last Stand Heal Minor Class Legacy: Last Stand Duration Last Stand Duration has been added to the trait Stand Tall (+10s). The old legacy has been replaced.
    Words of Courage Healing Minor Class Legacy: Words of Courage Pulses Words of Courage Pulses legacy has been replaced by Words of Courage Healing.
    Time of Need Damage Minor Class Legacy: Time of Need Buff Duration Time of Need Buff Duration will increase for first 20 tiers, new legacy will increase from there.
    Battle-readied damage Minor Weapon Legacy: Make Haste Duration Make Haste cooldown reduced from 3 minutes to 2 minutes for all Captains.
    Battle-hardened Incoming Damage Reduction Minor Weapon Legacy: Battle States and Defeat Response Duration Battle States and Defeat Response Duration have been increased from 10s to 15s for all Captains.
    Bleed Critical Rating Minor Class Legacy: Bleed Pulses None at this time.
    Shield of the Dunedain Incoming Healing Minor Class Legacy: Shield of the Dúnedain Duration None at this time.
    Champion
    Horn of Gondor Physical Mitigation (Debuff) Major Class Legacy: Champion's Horn Stun Duration New Legacy increases the duration of Champion Horn Stuns by 5s, mitigation debuff grows from that point forward.
    Raging Blade Damage Minor Class Legacy: Rend Pulses Five extra pulses have been added to Rend. The old legacy has been replaced.
    True Heroics Power Minor Weapon Legacy: Targeted Melee Skill Range Targeted Melee Skill Range is now a passive skill for all Champions (available at level 50). The old legacy has been replaced.
    Battle Frenzy Physical Mastery Minor Weapon Legacy: Battle Frenzy Cooldown New legacy reduces the cooldown of Battle Frenzy, Physical Mastery buff will grow from that point forward.
    Ebbing Ire Tactical Mitigation Major Class Legacy: Ebbing Ire Cooldown Ebbing Ire's cooldown will be reduced for the intial ranks, Tactical Mitigation buff will grow from that point forward.
    Fight On Critical Rating Minor Class Legacy: Fight On Duration Fight On Duration legacy has been replaced by Fight On Critical Rating legacy.
    Exchange of Blows Damage Minor Class Legacy: Great Cleave Duration Great Cleave will have its duration increased to 30 seconds.
    Hamstring Damage Minor Weapon Legacy: Hamstring Duration None at this time.
    Second Wind Power Restore Minor Weapon Legacy: Sudden Defence Cooldown None at this time.
    Sprint Evade Rating Minor Weapon Legacy: Sprint Duration None at this time.
    Unbreakable Damage Minor Class Legacy: Adamant/Invincible Duration None at this time.
    Fear Nothing Incoming Healing Minor Weapon Legacy: Fear Nothing Cooldown None at this time.
    Ferocious Strikes Damage Major Weapon Legacy: Ferocious Strikes Cooldown None at this time.
    Guardian
    Area Effect Skill Damage Major Weapon Legacy: Guardian Area Effect Melee Targets Melee Targets have been increased to 5 for all skills that were affected by the Guardian Area Effect Melee Targets legacy. The old legacy has been replaced.
    Sting Critical Rating Minor Weapon Legacy: Targeted Melee Skills Range Targeted Melee Skills Range is now a passive skill for all Guardians adding 1.7m to melee range (passive skill available at level 50). Old Legacy has been replaced.
    Stamp Damage Minor Weapon Legacy: Stamp Cooldown Stamp Damage legacy reduces the cooldown of Stamp by 10 seconds, and adds damage for the ranks beyond.
    Bleed Critical Damage Minor Weapon Legacy: Guardian Bleed Pulses Guardian Bleed Pulses have now been increased for all Guardians (+5 pulses). The old legacy has been replaced.
    Reactive Parry Damage Major Class Legacy: Challenge Targets Challenge Targets are now 7 for all Guardians. The old legacy has been replaced.
    Stoic Bubble Strength Minor Class Legacy: Shield Wall Range Shield Wall’s base range has been increased by 20m for all Guardians. Old legacy has been replaced.
    Adaptability Block and Parry Rating Major Class Legacy: Catch a Breath Cooldown Cooldown reduction will be added to the Catch a Breath Morale Heal legacy. BUG: Old legacy has been replaced, this is not intended.
    Light Damage Minor Class Legacy: War-chant Effect Duration None at this time.
    Shield Blow Damage Minor Class Legacy: Force Taunt Duration None at this time.
    Sweeping Cut Critical Rating Major Weapon Legacy: Guardian's Ward Duration None at this time.
    Stagger Damage Minor Class Legacy: Stagger Effect Duration None at this time.
    Shield-swipe Critical Rating Minor Weapon Legacy: Charge Duration None at this time.
    Warrior's Heart Max Morale Minor Weapon Legacy: Warrior's Heart / Fortitude Duration None at this time.
    Hunter
    Trap Damage Major Melee Legacy: Find the Path Movement Speed Find the Path Movement Speed has now been increased for all Hunters by 5%. The old legacy has been replaced.
    Rain of Arrows Damage Major Melee Legacy: AoE Skills Maximum Targets Split Shot max targets increased by 2 for all Hunters. Old legacy has been replaced.
    Exploisive Arrow Damage Major Ranged Legacy: Merciful Shot Cooldown Cooldown will be added to Mercilful Shot Critical Multiplier Legacy, new legacy will proceed as designed.
    Beneath Notice Power Restore Major Melee Legacy: Beneath Notice Cooldown Beneath Notice's Cooldown will be reduced for initial tiers, Power restore will grow from that point forward.
    Bubble Potency Minor Melee Legacy: Low Cut Bleed Chance None at this time.
    Precision Stance Finesse Minor Melee Legacy: Stealth Detection None at this time.
    Swift Bow Damage Minor Ranged Legacy: Distracting Shot Cooldown None at this time.
    Barrage Damage Major Melee Legacy: Needful Haste Duration None at this time.
    Lore-master
    Staff Strike Damage Major Weapon Legacy: Staff Strike Cooldown Staff-Strike cooldown has been decreased to 3s and Staff-sweep cooldown to 10s for all Lore-masters. Old legacy has been replaced.
    Light-type Damage Minor Class Legacy: Bane Flare Targets New Legacy will Increase both Light AND Lightning damage.
    Ancient Craft Armour Debuff Potency Minor Class Legacy: Ancient-Craft Targets Ancient Craft’s targets has been increased from 5 to 7 for all Lore-masters. Old Legacy has been replaced.
    Charged Air Reflect Damage Minor Class Legacy: Fire-Lore Debuff Strength None at this time.
    Ring of Fire Damage Major Weapon Legacy: Cracked Earth Range None at this time.
    Nature's Fury Skill Damage Minor Weapon Legacy: Burning Embers Range None at this time.
    Minstrel
    Chord of Salvation Crit Rating Minor Class Legacy: Chord of Salvation Cooldown Chord of Salvation cooldown has been reduced to 10s for all Minstrels. Old legacy has been replaced.
    Soliloquy of Spirit Healing Major Weapon Legacy: Soliloquy of Spirit Pulses Soliloquy of Spirit pulses has been increased by 5 for all Minstrels. Old legacy has been replaced.
    Healing Skills Crit Rating Major Weapon Legacy: Healing Skills Induction Time New Legacy will reduce the induction time of healing skills in addition to Healing Skills Critical Rating.
    Call of the Second Age Damage Minor Weapon Legacy: Call of the Second Age Targets Increased Call of the Second Age's Max Targets by 2 to a total of 5. Old legacy has been replaced.
    Anthem of War Physical Mastery Major Class Legacy: Anthem of War Damage (Physical) None at this time.
    Anthem of War Tactical Mastery Major Class Legacy: Anthem of War Damage (Tactical) None at this time.
    Light Damage Minor Class Legacy: Dissonance Stance Swap Buff None at this time.
    Rune-Keeper
    Runestone Damage/Healing Major Class Legacy: Self Motivation Cooldown Legacy reduces Self Motivation's cooldown for intial ranks, new legacy will grow from that point forward.
    Prelude To Hope Power Restore Major Class Legacy: Prelude to Hope Pulses Prelude to Hope pulses have been increased by 4 for all Rune-Keepers from 8 to 12. The old legacy has been replaced.
    Vivid Imagery Damage Minor Weapon Legacy: Vivid Imagery Targets Vivid Imagery max targets has been increased by 2 for all Rune-Keepers.
    Bubble Potency Minor Class Legacy: Word of Exaltation Cooldown Legacy reduces Word of Exaltation's Cooldown in the initial ranks, new legacy will grow from that point forward. (Currently not in build)
    Combustion Damage Minor Weapon Legacy: Distracting Flame Cooldown None at this time.
    Sustaining Bolt Damage Minor Weapon Legacy: Chill of Winter Debuff Duration None at this time.
    Bombastic Inspiration Heal Minor Weapon Legacy: Glorious Foreshadowing Duration None at this time.
    Epic Conclusion Damage Minor Class Legacy: Chilling Rhetoric Cooldown None at this time.
    Warden
    Defiant Challenge Damage return Minor Ranged Legacy: DC Mitigations per Target Defiant Challenge mitigations per target have been added to the Warden Trait "Defiance". The old legacy has been replaced.
    Recklessness Legendary Skill Critical Rating Major Melee Legacy: In the Fray Attack Duration In the Fray Attack Duration has been added to the stance toggle skill. The old legacy has been replaced.
    Javelin Skills Critical Rating Minor Ranged Legacy: Javelin Skills Movement Miss Penalty The movement miss penalty has been removed from all Warden Javelin skills and ranged auto-attack. The old legacy has been replaced.
    Ranged Damage Minor Melee Legacy: Javelin Skills Max Range Wardens with the Assailment specialization will now gain +15m javelin skill range. Old legacy has been replaced.
    Javelin of Deadly Force Damage Minor Ranged Legacy: Forced March Movement Speed Forced March now increases speed by 13% more. Old legacy has been replaced.
    Ambush Critical Rating Minor Ranged Legacy: Ambush and Careful Step Induction Inductions for Ambush and Careful Step were reduced by 3s for all Wardens (reducing them to 2s). The old legacy has been replaced.
    Adroit Manoeuvre (and Warden's Triumph?) Damage Minor Ranged Legacy: Adroit Maneuver Duration None at this time.
    Marked Target Double-cast Chance Major Melee Legacy: Marked and Dimnsh Tgt Debuff None at this time.
    Persevere Block Rating Major Melee Legacy: Shield Gambit Buff Duration None at this time.
    Hampering Javelin Reset Chance Minor Melee Legacy: Hampering Javelin Duration None at this time.
    Fist Gambit Skill Damage Major Ranged Legacy: Fist Gambit Buff Duration None at this time.
    Shield Piercer Evade Debuff Chance Minor Ranged Legacy: Shield Piercer Duration None at this time.
    Careful Step Movement Speed Penalty Minor Ranged Legacy: Careful Step Duration None at this time.
    Last edited by Frelorn; Apr 10 2015 at 04:13 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    822
    Not sure if I should just copy my thoughts from another thread, but since they'll be closing/merged, I guess it wouldn't be bad to? (If this will stop yield you from merging the original thread that this was into this, I can delete this post to have that integrated; may be more valuable).

    This is mainly about a core mechanic change I'd really like to see. As with many other systems we've seen, a lot of times things are implemented, and then are set out to dry and see how well the system weathers. Often, after that, they're largely ignored (I won't hold you to it, as it was an older team, but look at Essences for the most recent example; you were planning on extending that to lower levels and it really hasn't expanded much, and certainly not in terms of crafting). I just want the system to be done well and right the first time, because there may not be a second time.

    (wish there were spoilers so this wasn't so massive of a post)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pittcrew1
    Potential way to extend the imbuing system downwards to work for all level LIs
    Now that we are getting a system for LIs that I could imagine scaling pretty well, I am going to take a shot at trying to describe how it could work out that you can imbue an LI of any level and age, and eventually upgrade it to a level-cap high-quality LI.

    I am aware that this may be hard to understand. Try to look through the first Example below, and it should help to understand things. If you have other questions, comments, or suggestions, feel free to respond with them.

    In my opinion, this whole system could be a great way to finally integrate, mostly seamlessly, LIs that level with you. It, in my opinion, really balances the trade-offs of having a fully decked-out LI for level cap level ranges with being able to make one and not worry about it unless you want to until level cap. It also just feels right, and uses quite a bit based off of the new system Turbine has already made; I think it being optional yet so appealing makes it a really strong idea. Plus... cosmetic weapons!

    Mechanics:
    When you imbue your LI, it will convert your legacies into the new system, which will likely make them less powerful at low levels than you could have gotten before if you cared to grind for them.

    Legacy Changes:
    • If this system is added, I'd personally be fine with the utter removing of the problematic Legacies, because they'd be accounted for. The rest of the ideas for the Mechanic Changes of the current Imbuing system in terms of Problematic Legacies could be ignored from my post.
    • As of the current system proposed by the beta version of U16's system for Imbuing, many Legacies for both/either un-imbued LIs and imbued LIs change in order to keep certain things from being obscenely overpowered. I understand that concern, however, I want to make sure to keep all Legacies as are, in order to keep order and cause less change, anger, and confusion, as well as keeping class skill rotations no less robust than they are in the current version of live.
      In order to do this, I will introduce a new, secondary effect that improves for the in-between Tiers not substantial enough to call grant said "powerful" legacy improvement. For example, with Cooldown Reduction, Duration increases, and +Maximum Target Legacies, all of the following will only increase the number to the same, if not slightly higher, amount as what is found in U15.3. However, for some of these, specifically +Maximum Target or other very-small-increase-per-tier legacies, they only take a few "Tiers" to actually get to the maximum potency found in U15.3; for these Legacies, or any other legacy that needs to be utterly ceased in further advancement, the maximum from U15.3 will be represented by Imbued Legacies at Tier 50; all past that, and any Tiers less than that that are not substantial enough to earn an actual +Max. Target or such will instead gain a secondary effect, something very small, but that is related to the associated Legacy or skills associated with that Legacy.

    One example is the Hunter Legacy that increases the Maximum Target Count for AoE skills. The current max Tier that this Legacy has is 5, increasing the Max. Target Count by 5. In this new System, that would mean that every 10 Imbued Tiers would grant +1 Max. Target Count (making that max raise by only 1 at Tier 60), and then all other Tiers that are not the 10th (found by dividing the current maximum Tier count by 50), would perhaps give the small secondary effect of increasing all AoE skill's damage (or crit chance) by +.2% per tier. Something like that, at Imbued Tier 60, would result in the secondary effect contributing (only) +10.8% AoE skill damage (54 * .2), but it would make the in-between Tiers relevant, and overall, make the Legacy work without a ton of gaps.
    *See the Chart at the bottom of the post, with the Examples, for a more refined look at this in action.

    Legacy Tiers:
    • When you convert your normal LI into an imbued LI, it will turn all existing legacies into the new versions of those legacies, which will have far more tiers before you can get it to be as powerful as before.
    • How many Legacy Tiers you have for each legacy converted is determined by the level of the LI when imbued, and is found by taking the level - 50.
    • The maximum amount of legacy tiers will be 10 higher than the current level cap, minus 50. For right now, that would be 60.
    • The imbued legacies will all base their potency off of what they used to be when they were fully invested-into with Legacy Points. This base potency will be achieved when your imbued LI is character level 100, meaning that if each legacy's total potency, as of U15.3, were divided by 5, that would be how much potency the legacy would gain for every 10 character levels the LI gained.#
    • For each Legacy Tier that the player had on the LI before imbuing, that will raise the potential maximum Tier of the Legacy by however many tiers above tier 1 it was, reducing the amount of Empowerment Scrolls you will need to manually exceed.
    • Base Damage is considered a Legacy now, and it represents (plus 50) the level at which the LI is doing damage. Base Damage is considered a Legacy now, and it represents (plus 50) the level at which the LI is doing damage. The maximum amount of tiers the Base Damage legacy can have will be 3 higher than the current level cap, minus 50. For right now, that would be 53. For each Age older than Third Age, the Tier of this specific Legacy will always be that many Tiers higher than the minimum-level of the LI, and it will also increase the Absolute Maximum tier of the Legacy by 1 per Age, so SA's would have a maximum of 54 Base Damage Tiers, and FA would have a maximum of 55 Base Damage Tiers.
    • Depending on the LI's Age, the position of all Legacy Tiers will move 1 per tier. SA LIs will have 1 higher Tier for all Legacies, and will get 1 free otherwise-Empowerment-unlock for each Legacy; FA LIs will have 2 higher Tiers for all Legacies, and unlock 2 higher Maximum Tier unlocks. They can reach this higher Tier as was described on how Base Damage can be achieved, in that it can be achieved before the new usually-required character-level of the LI is raised. For example, if you had a lvl 55 SA LI, all of the Legacies could be Tier 6, 1 higher than how many it should normally have based on the level.
    • For level 100 imbued items, and only level 100, the Tier of each Legacy will translate into how many Tiers higher than 50 the Legacy will start with. If the Tier of a Legacy is 6 when it is imbued, it will be Tier 55 when imbued, as Tier 1 un-imbued does not count as any tier at all (there is no zero). Note that a level 100 un-imbued item has the benefit of not needing to have a Scroll of Delving used in order to gain the additional Tiers that the un-imbued item starts with. For all other level LIs, the current Tier of the Legacy is completely ignored, and it is set to the Tier of the level of the item - 50.#This is partially to help make imbuing level 100 items more valuable than leveling-up a low-level LI, but also to prevent any issues of low-level LIs getting higher Tier Legacies than they should for that level, up to 4 Tiers higher than they should, which they ordinarily would need another Scroll of Delving to get to.


    Upgrading LI Minimum Level:
    • When first imbued, an LI can level it's character level up to a certain new (minimum) level before it needs a Scroll of Delving, of the appropriate quality, in order to continue leveling up the minimum level to the next old-level-cap (60, 65, 75, 85, 95, 100).
    • A Scroll of Delving, of the appropriate quality, is needed in order to raise the LI's maximum potential minimum level to the next old-level-cap.
    • An LI's minimum level can never increase past the player who is using it's level.
    • In order for the minimum level to raise, all of the legacy's tiers must be equal to whatever the LI's current level is, minus 50, as well as the player must be whatever the LI's current level is, plus 1.


    Upgrading Legacy Tiers:
    You can upgrade a Legacy's Tier by earning IXP for the LI. Each Tier needs (5000 * current legacy tier) IXP to Tier up, although the IXP an LI earns does not divide between all of the Legacies it has, it is given to each Legacy, that is not capped, to work on progressing to the next Tier.
    A Legacy's Tier caps when your legacy either:
    • (for level 50-next old-level-cap) reaches the next old-level-cap's level - 50
    • (for level 100+) reaches the Absolute Maximum, which is the current level cap - 50 + 10

    You can improve the maximum minimum-level of an LI, and thus increase the maximum potential tier of each legacy, by using Scrolls of Delving.

    Base Stat Scaling:
    Whenever the LI levels up it's character level by 1, the base stats such as might or morale, found on 2-handed weapons, will scale up to the potency that would be found on an LI of the next level. They will always scale to the minimum level of the LI.

    Use of Legendary Item Scrolls and Crystals (only for imbued LIs, all old functions remain for normal LIs):
    • Scroll of Delving: increases an imbued LI's maximum potential minimum-level to the next old-level-cap
    • Scroll of Empowerment: allows you to extend a Legacy's Tier beyond what you could naturally achieve. the empowered Legacy will not be able to naturally gain more IXP to upgrade itself until the minimum level of the LI, plus 50, reaches the Tier of the Legacy. can only be used between the appropriate level range, and cannot exceed the next old-level-cap to prevent LI's being OP in certain aspects
    • Crystal of Remembrance: used to unlock your 7th legacy slot, usable before or after imbued. you can only use Level 100 or Level-less Remembrance Crystals after you have imbued the item
    • Star-lit Crystal: increases specifically the Base Damage Legacy's Tier by 1.#
    • Scrolls of Renewal: no use

    Upgrading LI's Age:
    Once, and only once, the LI has reached the minimum level of the current level-cap (and it may need to be Imbued in order to correctly scale, using the Imbued Legacy tiers), can you go to a Forge-master and upgrade the Age of the LI. In order to do this, you need a level-cap Symbol, either SA or FA, depending on what upgrade you're doing (and you must go from TA -> SA -> FA). You will also need 10000 Shards and 25 Legendary Fragments for upgrading to SA; 20000 Shards and 50 Legendary Fragments for upgrading to FA.


    Examples:
    Level 50 TA to level 100 FA:
    • I just got my starter LI, which will be considered lvl 50, and is Third Age. I got it to IXP level 30 (what I would consider the absolute#minimum#requirement for imbuing), and am level 50 (the minimum level characters must be to Imbue). Now I can imbue it.
    • After Imbuing it, all of the Legacies turn into Tier 1 Legacies. None of them can Tier up or even gain IXP to work on Tiering up, because they are the same Tier as my level (plus 50).
    • I level up once, and then they can all Tier up.#
    • If I want to use Empowerment Scrolls on Legacies, I can Tier them up to the next level cap, which was 60. So then they would be Legacy Tier 10.
    • Once I get to character level 60, my LI will stop advancing at all, even if I get to level 61, until I use a Scroll of Delving (Max LI Level 60 or higher) to raise the level-cap to the next level-cap, 65.
    • Being level 61 while my LI is level 60, I am slightly behind in IXP, and can use an IXP rune to get my Legacies all up to Tier 11, my level (plus 50). To get from Tier 10 to 11, the Legacies would all require exactly 55000 IXP. If I used a 65.5k IXP rune, they would all be raised to Tier 11 and have 0 IXP towards Tier 12 until I was level 62.
    • At any point, I can also use Star-lit Crystals to raise the Base Damage Legacy's Tier up to a maximum Tier of the next level-cap (minus 50). I am level 62, and I want level 65 Base Damage on my LI, so I apply 3 Star-lit Crystals, and I then have level 65 damage. The Base Damage Legacy will no longer Tier up until I reach it's level, and if I got it to the LI's maximum potential level, until I apply a Scroll of Delving (MAX LI level 65 or higher) again.
    • Now I am Character Level 65, and have unlocked a new potential maximum LI level of 75 by using my lvl 65 Scroll of Delving. I can apply up to 10 Star-lit Crystals (for Base Damage Legacy) or Empowerment Scroll (for any other Legacy) in order to raise any Legacy Tier up to a maximum tier of 75.
    • I can at not point use a Scroll of Delving to raise the maximum potential minimum-use level of my LI past the NEXT level-cap.
    • I repeat once I am level 75, 85, and 95.
    • Once I reach level 100, a few new options open up.
    • Once I use a level 100 Scroll of Delving, which will raise the maximum potential minimum-level to 110, I can apply level up to 10 level 100 Star-lit Crystals, 10 level 100 Empowerment Scrolls on each Legacy.
    • I can also Upgrade the Age of my TA to SA and that SA to FA by going to the Forge-master for the function, as described above in Mechanics. I need to have used the level 100 Scroll of Delving in order to unlock this ability.

    *I could have used any other LI I had gotten at any point, but just to show exactly the progression as wholly as possible, I used the first, lowest-level LI.

    Level 100 item being imbued (before and after):
    (to come in the future)

    Chart of Legacy Potency progression through Legacy/LI character-level-based Tiers:
    Here is a chart of potentially hard-to-continually improve with the new Imbued Tier system, so I tried to show how they could work, and how a lot of the Legacies can stay and not be integrated into passives and traits.
    Here is another potential system that could more or less mitigate the effect of the Legacy changes
    Class: Example Problem Legacy Primary effect Proposed Primary scaling rule Current Primary effect maximum value Proposed Primary Effect maximum value Proposed Secondary effect Proposed Secondary scaling rule Proposed secondary effect maximum
    Beorning Out-of-combat Wrath Decay Reduction reduce OOC resource decay -1 decay per 20 Tiers. max Tier 60 -2 decay -3 decay Increase Critical Defence +20 Critical Defence per 1 Tier, all Tiers that do not increase Primary effect +1140 Critical Defence
    Burglar Stealth Level increase stealth level +1 stealth level per 15 Tiers. max Tier 60 +3 Stealth Level +4 Stealth Level Increased Critical Damage Multiplier in Stealth +.1% Critical Damage Multiplier per 1 Tier, all Tiers that do not increase Primary effect +5.6% Critical Damage Multiplier in Stealth
    Captain Increased Telling Mark Damage increased strength of debuff +1% per 10 Tiers. max Tier 60 +5% Incoming Damage +6% Incoming Damage Reduce Target's Critical Defence -.2% Critical Defence per 1 Tier, all Tiers that do not increase Primary effect -10.8% Target Critical Defence
    Champion Battle Frenzy Cooldown reduce CD of skill -.4sec CD per 1 Tier. max Tier 60 20 second reduction 24 second reduction - - -
    Guardian Increased Warrior's Health / Fortitude Duration increased duration of skill +1sec duration per 5 Tiers. max Tier 60 +10 second duration +12 second duration Increased Incoming Healing Rating for buff +20 Incoming Healing Rating per 1 Tier, all Tiers that do not increase Primary effect +960 Incoming Healing Rating
    Hunter Increased AoE Maximum Targets increase targets of skill +1 target per 10 Tiers, starting at Tier 10. max Tier 60 +5 targets +6 targets Increase AoE skill Damage +.1% AoE Damage per 1 Tier, all Tiers that do not increase Primary effect +5.4% AoE Skill Damage
    Lore-master Fire-lore Debuff Strength increase strength of debuff +1% damage reduction per 10 Tiers, starting at Tier 10. max Tier 60 +5% debuff +6% debuff Increase strength of Charged-Air reflect damage +.1% per 1 Tier, all Tiers that do not increase Primary effect +5.4% Charged-Air Reflect Damage
    Minstrel Call to Ioreth Cooldown reduce CD of skill -.6sec CD per 1 Tier. max Tier 50 30 second reduction 30 second reduction Increase Outgoing Damage for next Healing Skill +1% per 1 Tier, Tiers 51-60 +10% Increased Outgoing Damage for next Healing Skill
    Rune-keeper Do Not Fall Cooldown Reduction recude CD of skill -3.2sec CD per 1 Tier. max Tier 50 160 second reduction 160 second reduction Increase Revived Target's Morale and Power +1% per 1 Tier, Tiers 51-60 +10% Morale and Power Revived Target Receives
    Warden Defiant Challenge Mitigation Boost mitigation boost per target +.4% per 10 Tiers, starting at Tier 10. max Tier 50 +2% mitigations +2% mitigations Defiant Challenge Reflection Damage +1% per 1 Tier, all Tiers that do not increase Primary effect +54% Defiant Challenge Reflection Damage
    In most cases of non-problematic Legacies, the maximum potency of it will simply end up being 1.2x stronger than it currently is.
    Reflecting now, I could be mostly happy if all removed, problematic Legacies were kept out (as long as it was for both imbued and un-imbued), but only if the old effects were more or less directly incorporated to the skills themselves, and not restricted behind a trait-line set bonus or trait. That was an extremely nice thing about LIs, that they could be used to enhance skills cross-traiting, but that is severely reduced now, and I don't want it to be gone completely.

    Also, I really personally don't like Critical Rating/Mastery Legacies. Many people already either have them capped or very high, and the value in legacies that grant those, especially specifically as buffs for skills, diminishes the value greatly. I see no problem with having potent legacies; currently some are far more than before, some are far less.
    Last edited by pittcrew1; Apr 09 2015 at 06:17 PM.
    Baldigar, 105 Burglar on Landroval

  3. #3
    In general, I'd say keep it equal with the legacies. There is no reason to cut hunter Rain of Arrows targets in half while other classes get their existing legacies as a passive. Same with Guardians. If you can make sure there are no negative effects, this update will be a huge success for everyone!

  4. #4
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    To my disappointment, I haven't had a chance to thoroughly test the system. However, based on my initial fiddling around with it, I've got the following thoughts, in no particular order.


    • Too many Mithril icons. It would be nice if we had just one MC button, and clicking that displayed all the various purchase options that are currently all over the Imbued LI panel.
    • I feel hugely underwhelmed when imbuing an LI that I have worked hard to improve. When we transition to ILI, we get 1/x. The X depends on what you had before imbuing. But we always start at 1. Sure, we could get some of our stockpiled IXP runes, but that seems kinda cheap, since many of us technically already did that. Many of us have LIs that were level 70, now imbued and starting all over with legacies at level 1. We go from having an LI that packs a punch to having a wet noodle, with the requirement that we spend even more IXP to get it back up to where it was before.
    • As I said, my testing has been limited. However, it is my understanding that if we imbue an LI before we've leveled it the normal way, we have to purchase Crystals of Remembrance in order to get more than 3 legacies. That seems very broken. We should be guaranteed to have 6 legacies, minimum and for free, no matter when we imbue. If I want to imbue my level 100 LI when it is at level 1, then I should be allowed access to all 6 legacy slots without having to fork over megabucks for 3 Crystals of Remembrance. In short, the system as it is means that players will not imbue their LI until at least level 30, to ensure that they have all 6 legacy slots. Then they'll imbue and keep working. That way they won't needlessly waste IXP (as in my previous bullet point).
    • I am a little confused about legacies. The ones that are changing as a result of imbuing... will the original versions still exist pre-imbuing? Per the release notes: "This conversion will happen only when you imbue your legendary item and will not affect legacy functionality pre-imbuement." So, for example, let's say my minstrel has a pre-imbued legacy for Call of the Second Age targets. However, minstrels now -- by default -- have had their targets increased to 5. So now my minstrel and her pre-imbued legacy allows her to reach a maximum of 10 targets. 5 from the pre-imbued legacy, and 5 by default. That seems very broken to me. I do agree that, as minstrels lose those legacies after imbuing, it's only fair that they be allowed the effects of those legacies by default. Therefore, I feel that ALL those legacies should be changed -- pre- and post-imbument. Basically: destroy the legacies affected and replace them all with the new legacies, and then leave the new default amounts (5 targets instead of 2, in this case) alone.
    • One thing I wonder about: what about the Rally! cooldown? I didn't see that in the release notes.


    I'll try to get in some more testing and provide more feedback.
    Last edited by Mar-Evayave; Apr 09 2015 at 06:31 PM.
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  5. #5
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    For those who need to see it in action. . .


  6. #6
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    Imbuing needs to be designed so that there is no incentive for us NOT to imbue an LI once we identify the LI, assuming we want to keep it.

    This means that the imbuing system needs to be open for all characters that have completed book 2.1, and the legacy max tiers need to be adjusted so that the LI grows in power as you level. For example, you can calculate max tier using the following guidelines:
    • Each legacy starts with 10 tiers
    • Maximum tiers are added based on level using the following calculation: floor((level - 50)/2) - if the value is less than 0, then it's 0
    • 5 tiers for a Second Age, 10 for a First Age
    • 2 additional tiers for each Scroll of Empowerment added to the LI


    So for a more concrete example, if Turbine allowed us to use 5 scrolls of empowerment - which would give the grind parity with the existing system for legacies ignoring LIXP - the calculation for max tier of a 100 FA would look like:

    = 10 + (100-50)/2 [Level] + 10 [First Age] + 5*2 [Scroll of Empowerment]
    = 10 + 25 + 10 + 10
    = 55

    For a SA the total would be 50, and for a TA it would be 45.
    Another pain point with the LI Imbuing system is the inconsistent state of legacies with the imbued and non-imbued legacies. The concern here is one for balance, as us players will likely figure out some way to use item swapping to OP ourselves if this behavior is allowed moving forward. It would be better for everyone if the legacy changes were pushed to all LIs and let the chips fall where they may.

    One concern I have is with adjusting the LIs post-imbuing. For example, if I determine that my legacy load out is suboptimal, I should be able to use a legacy swap scroll (from the existing LI system) to change a legacy to the desired legacy with an additional cost of IXP for the change. This gives me the flexibility to change course with the LI if I need to, yet allows me a mechanic that doesn't involve coughing up cash to fix what may be a simple oversight on my part. It also respects the effort put forth thus far, and makes it feel like I'm not starting from scratch with a legacy, especially if significant resources have already been expended.

    Touching on the number of legacies for a moment, the LIs should grant us up to 6 legacies, of our choice, as we hit milestones with the DPS/whatever legacy, assuming we didn't fully define the LI prior to imbuing it. For example, if we imbue an LI with 5 legacies, we wouldn't receive legacies for the first two milestones, but would receive one for the third. Either way, we'd still need the Crystal of Remembrance for the 7th legacy, but we aren't penalized for immediately imbuing the LI.

    The last point I want to touch on is that of cosmetics. LotRO's cosmetic system is head and shoulders above most other MMOs out there, and not having a desired cosmetic for the LI seems out of place. One thing that would be awesome is the utility to clone the item mesh and skin information for any LI of the same type and overwrite that information on your current LI. This way, we can personalize our LIs, and it opens up options for cosmetic LI appearances to be sold from the store at a point in the future. The ideal would be to use any arbitrary weapon (Captain's Arm, I'm looking at you), but I realize some may not have the damage type color mappings applied to them, so this may not be technically possible at this point in time.

    Edit:
    Forgot something....

    All of the passives for LIs that are not on 2H LIs should either be scrapped or normalized to have character level dependent values. These were always happy accidents for most of us, but they generally don't have a huge impact on play. 2H LIs should either get an essence slot, or an untyped relic slot that accepts any relic.
    Last edited by Almagnus1; Apr 09 2015 at 06:54 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    One concern I have is with adjusting the LIs post-imbuing. For example, if I determine that my legacy load out is suboptimal, I should be able to use a legacy swap scroll (from the existing LI system) to change a legacy to the desired legacy with an additional cost of IXP for the change. This gives me the flexibility to change course with the LI if I need to, yet allows me a mechanic that doesn't involve coughing up cash to fix what may be a simple oversight on my part. It also respects the effort put forth thus far, and makes it feel like I'm not starting from scratch with a legacy, especially if significant resources have already been expended.
    The Q&A mentioned a LI legacy replacement scroll is in the works as loot/quest rewards, but i don't think it's in the system quite yet. (if that is the concern in what I quoted)

  8. #8
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    Warden Javelin skills and Assailment Stance range set to 40m, across all trait-lines.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by olanath View Post
    The Q&A mentioned a LI legacy replacement scroll is in the works as loot/quest rewards, but i don't think it's in the system quite yet. (if that is the concern in what I quoted)
    Eh, I was just doing a braindump, and haven't seen the Q&A just yet.

    Having tagging that thign with the dev tracker would be awesome **HINT** **HINT** **HINT** **HINT** **HINT** **HINT** **HINT** **HINT**

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by olanath View Post
    The Q&A mentioned a LI legacy replacement scroll is in the works as loot/quest rewards, but i don't think it's in the system quite yet. (if that is the concern in what I quoted)
    I think it's named Imbued Crystal of Remembrance and it is already in the itemDB. It just doesn't appear to be available to get.
    Chromite/Grumbletocks/Grumbletunes/Schrade on Landroval, Chromite on Arkenstone, Appendage on Brandywine

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    Eh, I was just doing a braindump, and haven't seen the Q&A just yet.

    Having tagging that thign with the dev tracker would be awesome **HINT** **HINT** **HINT** **HINT** **HINT** **HINT** **HINT** **HINT**
    I posted a transcription here:

    Frelorn and Jinjaah did a Q&A about the new LIs on Twitch today and it addresses a lot of what people have questions about.

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...relorn-Jinjaah
    Dadi / Tyrlas - Arkenstone (Leader - Rare Breed Kin)
    dadislotroguides.com

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Skoch View Post
    Warden Javelin skills and Assailment Stance range set to 40m, across all trait-lines.
    I agree with this, the main reason being: Guardians can grab/aggro targets from 50 meters away with Fray the Edge. Let Fly has 30m range. I'm pretty sure ranged autoattacks have 25m range. This would, curiously, make Guardians better ranged tanks than Wardens.
    Landroval: Tolvat (120 Guardian), Gelldir (115 Warden), Gloravon (115 Captain), Curwe (115 Champion), Glamdir (115 Rune-keeper)

  13. #13
    I am strongly against non-imbued LI's having different legacies to imbued Li's. Having to make a choice between the extra dps & growth of an imbued vs maybe a loved legacy that gets rubbed out on imbuement seems to undermine the whole legendary item concept. If this imbued item is supposed to be my friend and grow with me then why do I still kinda want to use the level static one with that one useful legacy instead.....

    All legacy changes should be made to both, so pre-imbuement when U16 goes live. Some won't be happy, but we'll all live with it since it's the same for both versions.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor11 View Post
    I am strongly against non-imbued LI's having different legacies to imbued Li's. Having to make a choice between the extra dps & growth of an imbued vs maybe a loved legacy that gets rubbed out on imbuement seems to undermine the whole legendary item concept. If this imbued item is supposed to be my friend and grow with me then why do I still kinda want to use the level static one with that one useful legacy instead.....

    All legacy changes should be made to both, so pre-imbuement when U16 goes live. Some won't be happy, but we'll all live with it since it's the same for both versions.
    No. There should be no penalty for those that choose to not imbue an item.

    You do not want to force people into things like this. Take the Helm's Derp class changes for example. A lot of people quit over that. We don't need more people quitting.
    Chromite/Grumbletocks/Grumbletunes/Schrade on Landroval, Chromite on Arkenstone, Appendage on Brandywine

  15. #15
    General feedback

    I'd rather that see that all legacies get changed to be the same whether they are imbued or not. Either by keeping the legacy the same post imbuement and adding a secondary effect once the primary effect reaches a 'maximum' amount. Or by increasing the base effect of the skill and having the legacy changed on the non-imbued LIs.

    This is so that we don't end up with a situation where non-imbued LIs have certain legacies that we would lose completly if we imbued them. For example champion runes can have adamant/invincible duration legacy which maxes out at 5 on a non-imbued LI, however when imbued it gets changed to unbreakable damage. This could be changed to be adamant/invincible duration on both imbued and non-imbued, with the imbued version gaining unbreakable damage secondary bonus once the duration maxes out at 5. Or having adamant/invincible base duration increased by 5sec and having the legacy changed to be unbreakable damage pre imbuement.

    Have some more concerns related to how high the cost to upgrade once imbued is, but watched the livestream and it was said it's something you're aware of.

    Champion feedback

    Inc healing legacy on rune maxes out at roughly half of what it does on live.

    Ferocious strike cd -> damage: damage increase is nice but 14sec cd is too long, would be nice to see the -5sec cd built in to the bas skill. Or legacy decreases cd by up to 5sec then gets secondary effect to increase damage like some othe legacies have now.

    Hamstring duration -> damage: hamstring is only really used to slow a target and is not part of a dps rotation so +damage makes little sense. Personally I miss the older more reliable verion of hamstring which had 20sec base duration and 4.2sec cd. I'd rather see the return of the old version maybe 12sec base duration with up to +10sec from legacy and +5 from the trait. Then change the trait from 2.2sec knockdown at max rank to increase the slow by 5%, and give hamstring damage as a secondary effect once the duration maxes out. EDIT: could also keep the knockdown on hamstring but only allow it to happen every 20sec, similar to the way warden interrupts work.

    Champion horn stun duration: I've always seen this legacy as a bit unusual as it only increases the duration of the crafted class item, and every other legacy affects a skill. It would be great if it also increase the horn of gondor stun duration, maybe increasing the item by 5sec and the skill by 2.5sec at max. The secondary effect is a nice to see, however currently it actually applies a tactical mitigation debuff rather than a physical one.

    Fight on pulses: Currently when imbued it gets changed to a blank legacy, however build 1 patch notes mentions something about fight on crit rating. Crit rating bonus to fight seems fairly useless to me. I'd much rather have a new legacy which increases the chance that the masochism effect will proc which can max out to +30% giving a total of 50% chance of reflecting threat and damage (may need to reduce amount of damage reflected slightly). Then the secondary effect could be something like an increase to the damage done when sudden defence bubble is popped. We can currently keep fight on pulses on a non-imbued LI however I'd rather see the base pulses increased or the cd reduced from 3mins to 2mins.

    Melee skill range -> true heroics power: Nice to see melee skill range being made passive but true heroics power seems a rather useless legacy. Would be much better with a true heroics cd legacy. I'd like to see true heroics with a base cd of 1min with the legacy maxing out at -20sec, with the secondary effect being true heroics power restore. This would mainly allow chanks to have a shorter cd aoe force taunt which they severely lack. Would also allow champs to use the power restore for the group and buff themselves more often, maybe reduce the buff/debuff durations to 10sec from 12sec.

    Rend pulses - > raging blades damage: base amount of pulses was increased by 5 to compensate would like to see it increased more to 9 like the current max of the legacy or 10 to make it a nicer number. This change won't make much difference in pve but from a pvp standpoint losing those pulses is fairly painful. The change to raging blades damage is very nice to see.

    Great cleave duration - > echange of blows melee damage bonus: great cleave base duration got increased however the legacy remains on non-imbues LIs, should be changed straight away. The melee damage bonus is a nice addition.

    Fear nothing cd -> inc healing bonus: The inc healing bonus is nice to see however only being able to remove 1 d/w/f/p effect every 45sec not including the pots everyone has acces to is painful. The cd still exists on non-imbued LIs however itshould be changed to the inc healing bonus pre and post imbuement. I'd like to see the base cd reduced to 15sec and it remove up to 2 d/w/f/p effects, not as OP as guards being able to remove up to (if traited for it) 4 effects every 5 second but much more in line with other classes.

    Sudden defence cd -> second wind power restore: the power restore increase is currently bugged at a several thousand % increase. Aside from that power restore increase is for the most part not needed however could be useful in some situations. Losing the sudden defence cd reduction is bad, would like to see the base cd reduced by 15sec which is the current max on the legacy.

    Adamant/invincible duration -> unbreakable damage: Already talk a bit about this in my general feedback bit. Personally I'd like to see the +5sec duration added to the base skill. Unbreakable damage on it's own seems fairly weak given the cd of unbreakable, I think primary effect of up to -30sec cd on unbreakable with a secondary effect of unbreakable damage would be much better.

    Sprint duration -> Sprint evade rating: Losing the +duration with the current base duration and the 5min cd (3 if max trait) is very painful for pvp. Personally I'd like to see our cd brought more in line with other sprint skills. Something like 30sec base duration with 2min 30sec base cd or 20sec with 2min base cd, the sprint trait can then change to be -30sec at max rank. I'd like to see sprint legacy make us attack up to max of 5% quicker for the duration with the secondary effect being evade. This would make us 'quick and agile' while sprinting. Pre-imbuement legacy needs to be change.

    Battle frenzy cd: currently the secondary mastery buff is next to nothing, it also doesn't apply to the 'improved' battle frenzy when ardent rage trait is maxed making it give 1 fervour per second with a 30sec lower cd.

    Bracing attack healing: Nothing wrong with the legacy, but it's still much weaker than the improved bracing attack we had pre-HD, which had higher base healing a HoT and the heal would always apply even if the attack was b/p/e'd or missed. I'd really like to see that version return, the heal on the HoT at 85 was around 200, wouldn't need to increase very much. The HoT now could have a pulse every 2 sec for 4sec as base and the legacy changed to +bracing attack pulses (up to +3 for 5 pulses total) with + bracing attack healing as secondary effect which would affect the main heal and the HoT.
    Last edited by Rakanor; Apr 10 2015 at 09:27 AM. Reason: Thought of a way to keep hamstring knockdown while getting a low cd back
    Rakanor R12 Reaver - Trin R11 Champion

  16. #16
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    As mentioned by Malathran in another post.

    Overall, I would really like if they made combo legacies for all the duration/cooldown/targets/etc type legacies that they are getting rid of. There is simply a huge number of the current legacies that either don't scale well and can't scale infinitely, and simply getting rid of all those buffs is a huge nerf in many cases. Similarly there are so many you can't just give them all as passives or tack them all onto existing traits because it quickly becomes incredibly OP. As such I agree that the best solution is to simply leave most legacies the way they are, and once the effect reaches the maximum "balanced" effect the combo legacy kicks in and that is what advances in the later tiers.


    This is an excellent idea. How many would agree they would like to keep the legacies they worked so hard for and just add to them with an additional buff? This is a complete win for all classes if you ask me. Turbine could really benefit from this idea and save the day.

    I would have no problem with the extra grind if I was able to keep all my legacies as is. I really do not want my main toon nerfed as it shows right now. Many player have based their entire builds around one or two legacies that Turbine wants to remove. This only generates one outcome = unhappy players. Just add a weaker buff after the initial legacy.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChromiteSwiftpaw View Post
    No. There should be no penalty for those that choose to not imbue an item.

    You do not want to force people into things like this. Take the Helm's Derp class changes for example. A lot of people quit over that. We don't need more people quitting.
    Except those people won't have to choose. In the release notes, for example, all minstrels have their Call of the Second Age improved to 5 targets without the legacy. If those using pre-imbued LIs with that legacy, now minstrels can have their Call of the Second Age at 10 targets. That is absurd and broken, IMO. I think the legacies should be universal, imbued or not imbued, and the lost legacies should be added to the classes as passive, or even in the trees. It may not be ideal, but it's better than classes being able to stack these increases. Using the above example, a minstrel should not be able to hit 10 targets with Call of the Second Age. Ditto for all the similar cases for all classes.

    What's worse is that players would end up using two sets of LIs. One imbued and one not. That way they can stack the bonuses and then switch to their ILIs to continue the fight (ie: use normal LIs to blast out CotSA against 10 targets and then to the ILI to fight until CotSA's cooldown is over).

    *edit*
    Done some more testing. Running off my previous list...


    • ILIs still have a track button, but when clicked it still lists it as it's former self. In my case, MAX at level 70.
    • Seriously NOT cool with the use of legacies taken from deconned LIs. Our only choice to change legacies on ILIs is now to pay mithril. Sure, we get to choose what legacies to use now, except for the small problem that when we change an LI to an ILI, we lose the freedom of choice. Suppose I have Legacy A on my pre-imbuing LI. I imbue it and it is instantly changed to Legacy B. Well, I don't like Legacy B. It would not be a legacy that I would choose. But in order to get rid of this undesired legacy, I must pay MC to get rid of it. To get rid of something that I didn't want in the first place.
    • The Minstrel legacy for Healing Skills Induction Time also says "+0 Healing Skills Critical Rating"???


    Rule of thumb: If it was free before imbuing, it must be free after imbuing. And the ease of obtaining it should not be made harder. Right now it's a matter of trashing a random LI that I don't care about in order to get a legacy that I want. It should not be made any more difficult than that, and especially: NO PRICETAG. Free before. Free after. Pricetag to speed it up? Pricetag to make it even easier than it was before? Fine. But no more.
    Last edited by Mar-Evayave; Apr 09 2015 at 09:06 PM.
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
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    R9 115 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval

  18. #18
    Since one of the more notable early posts is about altering imbuing to start at lower levels I think I'll add my two cents about how some parts could/should work.

    1) Start the system at level 60 so your starting at a point where all 3 ages are available to use. Coincidentally this would also match the current max tier quite nicely (40 tiers is the cap, and 40 levels from 60-100). This leads to number...

    2) Make to dps/tactical damage rating/class bonus match the current level curves with the current differences between ages in exact power. For example a 3a weapon with a t5 dps rating would be equal to a current level 65 3a weapon. There would be slight differences to how you unlock this tiers based on weapon age. 3a would simply unlock as you level (so level 75 would have 15 tiers unlocked) while SA and FA would do the same but require first unlocking those tiers with the relevant symbols. How this would work is that if you have a level 60 FA weapon and just level to 65 you won't unlock any new dps tiers, but if you first "spend" a lvl 65 symbol on that weapon then those dps tiers will unlock as you level similar to a 3a. This allows a system that grows from lvl 60, doesn't devalue the existing LI symbols and such at lower levels, and retains the power difference between different LI ages (a less powerful but easier and cheaper to level 3a vs. a more powerful SA/FA that requires extra expenses along the way to get). Finally, you can use one of each tier of star-lit crystal (so up to 5 by level 100) to unlock bonus tiers of dps/class item bonus. Of course some earlier level star-lits (well in theory cheaper) may not be easy to obtain so you can simply override that with an extra higher tier star-lit (though there is still a max of 5 total).

    3) For how the legacies would work I largely agree with the earlier (and very ind-depth) post by pittcrew1. The idea of using scrolls of delving to unlock the potential max tier is pretty much analogous to how I think symbols should work in unlocking dps. I also think legacies should be upped with the relevant tier of scrolls of empowerment. So for example 1-5 would be the level 65 scrolls, 6-15 the level 75 scrolls, etc. Of course to prevent this from becoming an overwhelming cost a certain percentage of legacy tiers should be automatically unlocked simply by character level, and some percentage should be unlocked by scrolls of delving (in addition to upping the theoretical max). An example of how this could work in the level 66-75 LI tier could be that 4 tiers are unlocked simply by leveling (so 6-9, or 40% of that tier) and 2 tiers unlocked by the scroll of delving (10-11, or 20% of the tier) and finally ranks 12-15 would require the level 75 scrolls of empowerment (or higher) to unlock. Again this keeps the cost reasonable (hopefully), relevant to the "level" of the item, and keeps all the existing underlevel LI items useful.

    I like the idea of an imbuing system, but it makes zero sense to me why such a system can't or shouldn't be implemented from a low level. Hopefully, my ideas on how it could be done make some sense and I actually managed to explain them clearly enough.

  19. #19
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    Champion Feedback


    I would recommend all the legacies to stay and just add something to them.


    Sprint - Keep the duration to level 30. For level 30 and beyond grants critical and devastate magnitude of .15% per tier for the duration of sprint. so 10 levels will give a 1.5% magnitude increase.

    Hamstring - Keep the duration to level 30. Damage over Time over 20 seconds. 25 damage per tier every 2 seconds. 10 levels will give a 2500 damage before mitigations over 20 seconds.

    Great Cleave - Keep the duration to level 30. AOE damage increase of .5% per tier.

    Adamant/Invincible - Keep duration to level 30. Evade,parry and partial evade, partial parry of .2% per tier for 15 seconds.

    Fight On pulses - Keep pulses until level 30 - add a small crit rating as proposed earlier.

    Bracing Attack - super weak at the current state. Add a heal over time than can be multiplied per tier. 20 morale per tier after level 30.

    Sudden defence cooldown - leave the cooldown until level 30. add the power for second wind after level 30.

    Dire Need - Leave the cooldown until level 30. Give a percent of effectiveness after level 30. 2% per tier giving a 20 percent gain per 10 tiers.

    True Heroics - I do not know what to do with this skill it is never used and has too long of a cool down. If i was a champ that wanted a heroic skill it would be this.

    True Heroics

    5% damage increase
    -10 Attack Duration
    1.5% crit & devastate multiplier

    Duration 30 Seconds
    Cooldown 3 minutes

    True Heroics Legacy - Gives a .1% increase per tier.

    Battle Frenzy - Keeps legacy as is to level 30. Gives an instant 25 power per tier above 30 upon use.

    Fear Nothing CD - Keep as is until level 30. Above level 30 gives a .5% Incoming healing buff for 10 seconds.

    Ferocious strikes cool down - Keep the cool down as is until level 30. Grants a damage increase of .5% per tier after level 30.

    Masochism Legacy - .35% reflect and threat increase per tier until level 30. Additional tiers .20 percent per tier.

    Just some ideas.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Frebor View Post
    In general, I'd say keep it equal with the legacies. There is no reason to cut hunter Rain of Arrows targets in half while other classes get their existing legacies as a passive. Same with Guardians. If you can make sure there are no negative effects, this update will be a huge success for everyone!
    Absolutely.

    Don't take away things we already have - give them back to us either as passive skills, certain traits or tiered upgrades to legacies and then I'll be happy with that side of things. I'm fine with putting things like guard and hunter AOE targets and champ Fight On pulses into traits as long as they are relatively easy to obtain (so not deep down one particular line). If they don't go there, then they should be given as passives as the character advances.

    On a separate issue, I am not and never have been a fan of proc effects as it makes combat excessively influenced by RNG. See https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...nus-Brainstorm for example of a different approach, which applies to essences in the thread but could be extended to traits.
    105s: Aedfrith (HN), Aldnoth (CP), Brai (RK), Hrolfdan (MN), Aeldfryd (WD), Morriarty (CH), Aednoth (LM), Mishhar (BR), Hraldan (GR), Rummbold (BG). Tinies - Rumbelina (MN), Aenghus (CP)
    Rangers of Eriador (officer), ex-Snowbourn now Laurelin - A Noob for All Seasons

  21. #21
    I like what you guys have done, apart from replace legacy with mithril coins : (

    LAURELIN
    YORRI GUARDIAN R13


    BRANDYWINE
    YORRIE GUARDIAN R12

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvCe-Rv-rHA

  22. #22

    My feedback

    My feedback:

    I. "Combo legacies": In imbued items, keep all existing legacies - augment them with extra bonus per tier. Scale the cooldown, max targets, etc. to maximum attainable legacy tier.


    Example (Rain of Arrows legacy, assuming 40 tiers maximum):

    tier 1: +1 AoE skill targets, +0.4% Rain of Arrows damage
    tier 2: +1 AoE skill targets, +0.8% Rain of Arrows damage
    ...
    tier 9: +2 AoE skill targets, +3.6% Rain of Arrows damage
    ...
    tier 39: +5 AoE skill targets, +15.6% Rain of Arrows damage
    tier 40: +5 AoE skill targets, +16.0% Rain of Arrows damage


    If the maximum tier gets scaled, just scale the requirement proportionally, e.g. you need tier 11 for +2 targets if the maximum is 50:
    Example for hypothetical level 110 characters with 50 tier maximum:

    tier 1: +1 AoE skill targets, +0.4% Rain of Arrows damage
    tier 2: +1 AoE skill targets, +0.8% Rain of Arrows damage
    ...
    tier 11: +2 AoE skill targets, +4.4% Rain of Arrows damage
    ...
    tier 49: +5 AoE skill targets, +19.6% Rain of Arrows damage
    tier 50: +5 AoE skill targets, +20.0% Rain of Arrows damage

    Comments:
    This gives incentive to imbue for all classes. (Currently many may consider not imbuing because of important old legacies.)

    We get the best of two worlds: we get some upgrade with each legacy tier AND we keep our existing important legacies.

    Keeping it Simple: No work needs to be done to update class traits and skills. (!!!) No inherent bugs and imbalance introduced!




    II. The current Scroll of Empowerment requirement of 49 scrolls to max out a weapon is excessive.

    Solutions (not mutually exclusive):
    a) Shift more tiers to IXP-unlock, e.g. 36 unlockable with IXP alone, 4 unlockable with Empowerment Scrolls.
    b) Drastically reduce the cost of Empowerment Scrolls at skirmish camps.
    c) Add quests (daily or bi-weekly) or deeds to complete specific instances/raids to earn Scrolls of Empowerment. This will make running old scaled content a viable end-game activity once again. Please DO NOT add them as instance chest loot, as it will result in Sambrog/School over-and-over farm.
    d) Delay the unlock of last few (e.g. 4, for a temporary maximum of 36) tiers to some future update, e.g. 16.1 or 16.2.
    e) Introduce Empowerment Scrolls barterable for seals (the currently-almost-obsolete top level currency).

    Comments:
    A double (e.g. for tank and for DPS) set of imbued LIs for just a single character requires up to 196 scrolls at this point.

    It would be an excessive grind not many of most dedicated players could handle, let alone the casual players.
    Some of way of reducing players outrage is needed. I can easily imagine people will be shocked to find out they need a MILLION marks for just fully gearing 2-3 characters.




    III. Allow exchanging of legacies without Turbine Points / Mithril Coins. Allow to rename Imbued LI. Allow to change stats on 2-handed weapons.

    Comments:
    Currently you can exchange legacies without paying. It should be preserved.
    Since we keep the item "forever", there should be a way to rename it, e.g. in case we make a spelling error.
    2-handed weapon stats might become undesirable on imbued weapons (e.g. due to changes in stat contributions). There should be some "Scroll of 2-handed weapon stats change".
    Last edited by hurant; Apr 10 2015 at 06:47 AM.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    162
    Copying my thoughts from other earlier threads here for convenience...

    My 2 Major Issues with Imbuing:

    1. I couldn't find any way to replace a legacy I don't like on an imbued item that doesn't require mithril coins. Plus, the mithril coin cost of doing so is exorbitant. Most of us are going to end up with a couple of legacies we don't like post imbuing because of the changes... we've always been able to replace legacies with relative ease before, so we need some means of doing this now under the new system without 'cheating' and using real money.

    2. There is no way to prioritise which legacies gain xp over others. Previously, you could choose which to rank up and which not to. Under the new system, item xp is distributed evenly across all legacies. I think there should be a means to toggle tiering up for certain legacies, especially stat legacies. While you can choose to only put empowerment scrolls on individual legacies, I think it would be good to have to option to focus xp gains on just a couple at a time as well.

    With regard to (1), I suppose the answer would be to replace any legacies and get the item exactly right *before* you imbue it. That does make sense in some ways, however I think players need to receive a warning about this when they choose the imbue option as it isn't immediately obvious what is going on. I foresee a lot of tantrums with people wanting to imbue their LIs straight away, and then later realising that they now can't change their legacies without spending a fortune on mithril coins.

    I later did some more experimentation with the imbuing process on my hunter, crafting a bunch of level 100 3rd age items to identify and level up to test the idea of setting up all the legacies you want prior to imbuement. I found that some of the new legacies, namely Barrage Damage, Rain of Arrows Damage and Bubble Potency would never come up on a non-imbued LI (at least, not on any of the 9 I levelled up). However, Trap Damage did come up, while Find the Path Movement Speed appears to be absent on newly created LIs. I did still have the old Find the Path Movement Speed legacy on my 1st ager from live however, just couldn't get it to come up on any items I identified.

    I did not /bug it as I'm not sure how it is supposed to work. The way it is now, it seems one would have to memorise which old legacies are replaced by what in order to build an LI that will have the perfect legacies post-imbuement. Not very intuitive.
    "This is most unexpected, though perhaps not quite as surprising as it might have been."

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    that bright star in the constelation of Vela
    Posts
    229
    Here are my 2 cents worth... for what it's worth!!!

    1) Cut down the cost of empowerment scrolls, crystals etc. If we imbue both our LI's that already have ALL legacies at tier 6, then we will need if memory serves, 98 empowerment scroll for each character. Some people have more than 2 LI's for various reasons, which would cost them even more. Also, most players have multiple alts so imagine just how big a grind it is going to be for them. Someone who has 5 or 6 level 100's could in effect be grinding out for the rest of the year to max their alts out. But some people have even more level 100 alts. So i'm sorry, but the grind this time round is beyond crazy.
    I know you guys are under pressure to make profit for the company and as such I can understand why you want to make the grind so hard that it forces people to spend money, but come on guys, this is well over the top.

    2) This whole legacy change is annoying (would have used a stronger word, but thought it better not to) a lot of players. You are taking away some legacies that people want to keep and giving us some that we don't want or need. At least ask players to say what type of legacies they would like to have to replace the ones that are being taken away. For example, from what I saw, a few legacies will now have crit rating instead on them, but not everyone will want that.
    So instead why not allow players to choose from legacies such as crit rating, phys/tact mitigation, phys/tact mastery, morale etc. This will at least make most people happy (alas, you can never please everyone) because they will get to choose from a larger range of legacies rather than just crit rating to replace the ones you are taking away. This way players can use these legacies in conjunction with the essence gear so that if they are a little bit short of mits they can make up for it with a mits legacy, or if they want a bit more mastery, then they can add a mastery legacy to the LI, or perhaps they want more morale.
    The point is, if these new weapons are to grow with us for the remainder of our playing life, then surely we should be able to have what we want on them and truly make them unique to us!!!

    3) Now lets talk about someone who does not have a level 100 alt yet. Well, sooner or later they will do so and they will imbue their weapon and could end up getting 3 rubbish legacies on there that they do not want. With the current system they can simply decon another LI and use a legacy from there to replace the rubbish ones they got. With the new imbue system, it's going to cost them mithril coins to do this.....UNFAIR!!!!!
    How about when someone imbues a level 100 LI, they are given a choice of perhaps 5 legacies and they have to pick 3 of them. This at least will be fairer for those people and you would like to think that out of the 5 they would be happy with at least 2 of them.

    Well anyway, these are the 3 main points that I can think of at the moment and i'm sure most people would welcome the changes I have mentioned. Of course, there will be a few people who wont do so, but like I said earlier, you can never please everyone!!!
    Last edited by Falconbeast; Apr 10 2015 at 06:52 AM.
    MOORS: HUNTER R11, WARG R9
    BE NOT FEARFUL OF DEATH FOR IT WILL LEAD YOU TO AN EVEN GREATER ADVENTURE,
    AS LIFE IT SELF IS A JOURNEY TO DEATH AND ONE WHICH WE MUST ALL TAKE.... LIVE GOOD, FIGHT HARD, DIE WELL.

  25. #25
    The three important things to me......

    $ MONEY $ MONEY $ MONEY $

    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    • Too many Mithril icons. It would be nice if we had just one MC button, and clicking that displayed all the various purchase options that are currently all over the Imbued LI panel.
    Quote Originally Posted by yorrie View Post
    I like what you guys have done, apart from replace legacy with mithril coins : (

    I personally find it unacceptable to require money (around $8) or a rare loot drop to change a legancy. Legacies are part of "optimizing your character". Are you going to charge us $8 to change our trait builds too? I really think you need to maintain the current mechanic to replace legacies (level LI to 30, decon and choose legacy, use scroll to swap). Or make it cost in-game currency: gold or shards. but NOT mithril coins.

    You can have a hundred store items that speed things up for all I care, but you can't force this on us (in order to change legacies). Even VIPs could only change a legacy every 2 months with their free 500 TP a month. That is utterly insane!

    The whole UI smacks of "GIVE US CA$H" .. that is disrupting / immersion breaking / bad taste / frustrating. At least the previous dev team hid this far more subtly. The current incarnation is the equivalent of pop-up ads. YOU (devs) would not want this in any game that YOU play. So don't give it to us in LOTRO.


    Combination legacies

    Best idea ever. More choice, more flavour, more optimization possible. Please please please make it happen.


    LI ages
    I do not think 1st age, 2nd age, 3rd age should have the same max stats, etc. Why are they even in game then.......?

    --
    editted to add third point
    Last edited by Soltreas; Apr 10 2015 at 08:27 AM.

 

 
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