We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Barrage tiering

  1. #1

    Barrage tiering

    I couldn't find anything on this in the forums, so I'd figured I'd post it in case anyone else is seeing this.

    The short form is, I think Barrage's tiering is bugged, but it'll only happen if you're spamming it. Maybe.

    Barrage seems to have three tiers:
    Barrage, which applies a +30% damage buff to itself.
    Barrage 2, which applies a +60% damage buff to itself.
    Barrage 3, which applies a +60% damage buff to itself.

    The way the game decides which tier of Barrage you use is based on which damage buffs you have on you:
    If you have no damage buffs, you use Barrage.
    If you only have +30% damage buffs, you use Barrage 2.
    If you only have +60% damage buffs, you use Barrage 3.
    If you have both +30% and +60% damage buffs, you use Barrage (and you ignore the effects of oils).

    Also, the damage buffs appear to be independent effects - they don't stack and they don't overwrite each other. After you first use Barrage, you'll get a +30% damage buff for 5 seconds, and it'll run out 5 seconds later, no matter how many other Barrages you fire off.

    So, let's look at what happens if we just spam Barrage (or at least, fire it as soon as it comes off of cooldown). For added illustrative purposes, we'll use Fire oil.

    You start off with no damage buffs, so you use Barrage of Fire. This gives you a +30% damage buff.
    Your second Barrage starts off with a +30% damage buff, so you use Barrage of Fire 2. This gives you a +60% damage buff.
    Your third Barrage starts off with a +30% and a +60% damage buff, so you use Barrage (note: this means you're back to doing weapon type damage, instead of fire damage). This gives you a +30% damage buff.
    Your fourth Barrage starts off with a +30%, +60%, and +30% damage buffs (possibly the first damage buff has worn off by now), so you use Barrage. This gives you another +30% damage buff.
    Your fifth Barrage either starts off with +60%, +30%, and +30% damage buffs, in which case you use Barrage; or with two +30% damage buffs (depending on if the +60% damage buff from your second Barrage has managed to last until now), in which case you use Barrage of Fire 2. And then you'll get either a +30% or a +60% damage buff, based on which Barrage you used.
    And it continues from there, with you switching between a couple Barrages and Barrage of Fire 2.

    Another thing to notice is, if we fire off two Barrages in quick succession, and then wait a bit, Barrage will turn into Barrage 3 once the +30% damage buff wears off. This seems to be the ideal case - Barrage 3 shows up when you only have +60% damage buffs, and applies a +60% damage buff, so it's stable. Compare this with Barrage 2, where you use Barrage 2 if you only have +30% damage buffs, but it applies a +60% damage buff, so you'll end up with both +30% and +60% damage buffs. Which means you'll use Barrage, until the +30% damage buffs go away.

    Finally, I think what's going wrong is that the damage buffs are supposed to be overwriting each other. So you start with no damage buffs, fire a Barrage, giving you a +30% damage buff. The +30% damage buff means you'll next fire a Barrage 2, giving you a +60% damage which overwrites the +30% damage buff. Since you have a +60% damage buff, you'll use Barrage 3, which will give you a new +60% damage buff that overwrites the old one, and you'll keep using Barrage 3. This would mean that the damage buff from tiering up Barrage is supposed to cap at a lot lower value than it currently does.

    Anyways, anyone else seeing this?

  2. #2
    I've never looked at what actually happens but what your describing seems far more complex than what is seemingly described by the skill description. Simply by the description I would expect each firing of barrage to add a separate buff of +30% damage/+50% power cost that lasts for 5 seconds. This would then not modify the skill in any way other than adding those modifiers to the base damage and power cost and would not "stack" beyond the fact that you could potentially have as many as 3-4 of those buffs up at any one time.

    By what your describing it sounds like the whole thing is way off from what the description indicates in the first place. Even if they went the more complicated route of having subsequent buffs overwrite each other (such that your first buff is +30% and upon the second shot gets removed and a +60% is put in its place, then +90% etc) it still doesn't explain why in the world there would be different barrages as you described. The skill itself shouldn't ever change, it just gets its damage and power modified by the buffs in place. I'm going to assume that there is some error in the process and it probably relates back to the whole being needlessly complicated (and made even more so by the addition of oils).

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Malathran View Post
    I've never looked at what actually happens but what your describing seems far more complex than what is seemingly described by the skill description. Simply by the description I would expect each firing of barrage to add a separate buff of +30% damage/+50% power cost that lasts for 5 seconds. This would then not modify the skill in any way other than adding those modifiers to the base damage and power cost and would not "stack" beyond the fact that you could potentially have as many as 3-4 of those buffs up at any one time.

    By what your describing it sounds like the whole thing is way off from what the description indicates in the first place. Even if they went the more complicated route of having subsequent buffs overwrite each other (such that your first buff is +30% and upon the second shot gets removed and a +60% is put in its place, then +90% etc) it still doesn't explain why in the world there would be different barrages as you described. The skill itself shouldn't ever change, it just gets its damage and power modified by the buffs in place. I'm going to assume that there is some error in the process and it probably relates back to the whole being needlessly complicated (and made even more so by the addition of oils).
    The difference between the single stacking and independent non-stacking is how often do you have to fire Barrage in order to maintain the maximum damage buff?

    If there is a single stacking buff, then you have to fire Barrage before the buff wears off, in order to maintain the maximum damage buff.

    If the buffs are independent and non-stacking, then you have to fire Barrage as often as possible, in order to maintain the maximum damage buffs, because the oldest damage buffs are constantly expiring.

    It's like the difference between Fast Draw (just fire Quick Shot often enough to keep the buff alive - this will tier it up/maintain it at the highest tier) and the Minstrel's Discordant Ballads (independent +5% tactical damage buffs that are applied any time you use a ballad).

  4. #4
    .
    /10chars
    Massterchief
    Arbitter
    Starfoxx

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by moebius92 View Post

    Anyways, anyone else seeing this?


    Anyways, anyone else seeing this????

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by sosinka01 View Post


    anyways, anyone else seeing this????
    9, 11, 13, 15 (but 30%), 16, 20

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Snigol View Post
    9, 11, 13, 15 (but 30%), 16, 20
    16, 20 ????

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    53
    This is a better illustration showing the damage type change within the same shooting sequence on dummy in Galtrev with fire oils in precision stance, with intentional 1-2 second pauses to get all possible types of tooltips:



    The 30% barrage damage increase is additive to other damage increases, resulting in approximately 20% real increase. Ideally, if using fire oil, you will only see fire dmg, and never beleriand from the Barrage skill.
    #1 is default
    #2 is 30%
    #3 is 60%
    #4 is 60% + 60%
    #5 is 60% + 60% + 60%
    #6 is 30% + 30% (bad)
    #7 is 30% + 60% (bad)
    #8 is 30% + 60% +30% (bad) (it can also be 60% + 30% + 30% or 30% + 30% + 60%)
    Eldarond, Eldarius, Eldarad, Eldarok, Eldarod, Eldarand, Eldara
    VIDEO -------> Barad Guldur Lieutenant Hard-Mode 6-manned
    Watcher 6-manned
    Kinship: Children of Eru, Eldar (moved to Evernight)

  9. #9
    Why Galtrev and not Dol Amroth?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,731
    For the outgoing dmg it doesn´t matter on which you shoot the incoming dmg is different. K but this does not changes the skill.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    53
    Dol Amroth or Galtrev or Archet will not change the tooltip of the skill, or the point that there are different types of 'hidden' tiers on Barrage, and the big fact that the damage type changes to default (ignoring oil) in certain scenarios outlined above.
    Eldarond, Eldarius, Eldarad, Eldarok, Eldarod, Eldarand, Eldara
    VIDEO -------> Barad Guldur Lieutenant Hard-Mode 6-manned
    Watcher 6-manned
    Kinship: Children of Eru, Eldar (moved to Evernight)

  12. #12

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarond_EU View Post
    This is a better illustration showing the damage type change within the same shooting sequence on dummy in Galtrev with fire oils in precision stance, with intentional 1-2 second pauses to get all possible types of tooltips:

    The 30% barrage damage increase is additive to other damage increases, resulting in approximately 20% real increase. Ideally, if using fire oil, you will only see fire dmg, and never beleriand from the Barrage skill.
    Dol Amroth
    Fireoil, Bow Chant

    For good illustration powercost, no equiped "essence of the powerful "



    T1_ is default
    T2_ from default 20,7% dmg 56,7% Power Cost
    T3_ from default 41,3% dmg 113,5% Power Cost
    T4?_ from default 62% dmg 170,3% Power Cost
    T5?_ from default 82,6% dmg 227% Power Cost
    T6?!_??????
    T7??!_ from default 124% dmg 340,5% Power Cost


    T1_ is default
    T2_ from T1 20,7% dmg 56,7% Power Cost
    T3_ from T2 17,1% dmg 36,2% Power Cost
    T4?_ from T3 14,6% dmg 26,6% Power Cost
    T5?_ from T4 12,8% dmg 21% Power Cost
    T6????
    T7??!_ from T5 22,6% dmg 34,7% Power Cost

    Barrage of Fire tiers name "Barrage" ignoring oil

    Barrage tiering is horible. Chance for next tier is confused.

    (translate.google)

  13. #13
    when people talk about the 30% buff expiring, or the 60% buff, etc., are you seeing an actual buff under your portrait, or your buffbars, or do you just have to constantly mouse over the barrage skill to see if it's tiering up or not?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Mohanadan View Post
    when people talk about the 30% buff expiring, or the 60% buff, etc., are you seeing an actual buff under your portrait, or your buffbars, or do you just have to constantly mouse over the barrage skill to see if it's tiering up or not?
    Combat Analisis

    T7 Barrage devastate 80k dunny Galtrev

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    113
    Quote Originally Posted by Sosinka01 View Post
    Combat Analisis

    T7 Barrage devastate 80k dunny Galtrev




    but HOW can you keep up Barrage Tier 3 on the highest level? how can you hold it?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Varulv View Post
    but HOW can you keep up Barrage Tier 3 on the highest level? how can you hold it?
    shoot barrage 1, shoot barrage 2, wait until tooltip barrage3 comes up, then use it on cooldown. never wait 5 sec between two barrages when barrage3 is up, then it doesnt tier down. it only makes problem if you spam barrage directly at the beginning of the fight before it tiers up to b3.
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Anführer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
    Deutsche Guides für nahezu alles, was Casuals interessieren könnte, gibts hier: http://gdfv.forumo.de/guides-f24/

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    1,199
    Quote Originally Posted by Mohanadan View Post
    when people talk about the 30% buff expiring, or the 60% buff, etc., are you seeing an actual buff under your portrait, or your buffbars, or do you just have to constantly mouse over the barrage skill to see if it's tiering up or not?
    You do not see the buff directly, but the icon of the skill is changing noticeably. As you can see in the screenshots of Sosinka01 "Barrage 3" icon is much brighter than 1 or 2, so there is even no need to check the tooltip.
    Ishtarien - Captain
    Ishtari - Rune Keeper / Ishtarel - Hunter / Lunasa - Minstrel
    Ishtaridas - LRM 105 / Ishti - BRG 105 / Cabernetta - GRD 105 / Merlotta - CHP 105 / Medovinus - BRN 105
    The Mellowship || Eldar -> Evernight

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    113
    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    shoot barrage 1, shoot barrage 2, wait until tooltip barrage3 comes up, then use it on cooldown. never wait 5 sec between two barrages when barrage3 is up, then it doesnt tier down. it only makes problem if you spam barrage directly at the beginning of the fight before it tiers up to b3.
    ok i do exactly this - but barrage sometimes tiers down (from tier3 highest to tier 3 low)
    to hold tier 3 isnt the problem - to hold the maximum^^tier3 seems tricky

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    113
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunasa View Post
    You do not see the buff directly, but the icon of the skill is changing noticeably. As you can see in the screenshots of Sosinka01 "Barrage 3" icon is much brighter than 1 or 2, so there is even no need to check the tooltip.
    yes i knew that - i talk about tier3 normal to tier 3 maximum and then hold this

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Varulv View Post
    ok i do exactly this - but barrage sometimes tiers down (from tier3 highest to tier 3 low)
    to hold tier 3 isnt the problem - to hold the maximum^^tier3 seems tricky
    one day, they will fix barrage tiering and it will be only one buff. then there wont be any different barrage 3 anymore^^ (this bugfix alone might nearly make redline viable)
    till then... i think, to have max b3, you need to shoot barrage on cooldown. if you run out of focus and use focus builders, you rank down to less barrage buffs and therefore weaker barrage3 versions.
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Anführer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
    Deutsche Guides für nahezu alles, was Casuals interessieren könnte, gibts hier: http://gdfv.forumo.de/guides-f24/

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload