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Thread: Amarthiel

  1. #1
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    Amarthiel

    ok so I have gotten through the first two books the lotr series and so far to my knowledge Amarthiel does, not exist in any of them.
    Did Turbine pull her out of there magic hat. To make the game more interesting. I'm a little confused. Could any one help.

  2. #2
    She is not part of the official Tolkien lore. She is a Turbine creation.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  3. #3
    It's a great storyline, though (in my opinion, of course). I've done Vol. I on a number of my toons - I really enjoy it. I won't give any spoilers, but it's a fun story.
    Casual R Us - Garatha

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    Best story in the game, without any doubt. Just enjoy it.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/202240000001c8cb1/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  5. #5
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    That storyline was exclusively created for Lord of the rings online.. If I wasn't told that, I wouldn't know, because I think it is very well written. Definitely my most favorite story in game.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Orivien View Post
    That storyline was exclusively created for Lord of the rings online.. If I wasn't told that, I wouldn't know, because I think it is very well written. Definitely my most favorite story in game.
    I do not think I ever saw an official statement. The Volume 1 story line must be the work of the professional writer Berephon that used to be on the Lotro team. I believe he was laid off by Warner Brothers after they bought Turbine. Endewaith is the last thing that I can remember that he worked on.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    I do not think I ever saw an official statement.
    Amarthiel is indeed exclusive to LOTRO - you won't find her in Tolkien's works, though the inspiration for her comes from here and there throughout. We had lengthy meetings back in the day to work out her story and bring her to life, names you'd probably recognize if you've been here since the beginning: Keth, NobOrBob, Berephon, and myself on the story side, and Floon with the art. Amlug even contributed a crucial book of the Epic (Volume I, Book 9 - which gave us some particularly flashy Amarthiel moments).

    I wouldn't say we pulled her out of a magic hat, though. The themes that revolve around Amarthiel are very much in tune with Lord of the Rings, I think.

    MoL

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadeOfLions View Post
    Amarthiel is indeed exclusive to LOTRO - you won't find her in Tolkien's works, though the inspiration for her comes from here and there throughout. We had lengthy meetings back in the day to work out her story and bring her to life, names you'd probably recognize if you've been here since the beginning: Keth, NobOrBob, Berephon, and myself on the story side, and Floon with the art. Amlug even contributed a crucial book of the Epic (Volume I, Book 9 - which gave us some particularly flashy Amarthiel moments).

    I wouldn't say we pulled her out of a magic hat, though. The themes that revolve around Amarthiel are very much in tune with Lord of the Rings, I think.

    MoL
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  9. #9
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    Back in the day Amarthiel made guest appearances in the Moors as well (GM controlled ofc, and that was under Codemasters, not sure if Turbine did it on NA servers too). Would very much like to see that kind of thing happen again...

  10. #10
    The character of Amarthiel is a Turbine creation, but some aspects of the story were there in small references -- we know from maps and bits of history in the appendicies that long ago there was the Kingdom of Arnor in the north, ruled by the ancestors of the rangers; originally its capital was Annuminas (in Evendim, the great ruins in and on the south edge of the lake), and later the capital moved to Fornost. It eventually split into Cardolan (which becomes Bree-land, you can pick up part of the history of that in the barrow-downs), Rhudar (further east, in the lone-lands, and you can pick up some of that history there), and Arthendain in the North Downs and Evendim. Fornost eventually gets destroyed in a war with Angmar (and you can pick up some of the story of that battle in and around Fornost)...

    Turbine took this "known history", and added the character of Amarthiel to it, along with Mordirith and the bosses you fight in the Fornost instances, so that there are some interesting faces to the otherwise mostly faceless enemies, which makes for a much better story in-game (I think the only enemy that specifically gets described in that whole chunk of history by Tolkien is the Witch-King of Angmar, better known later as leader of the Nazgul, and even he doesn't get a whole lot of detailing; we don't even get a name or dynasty or anything for him, which is interesting given how much all the good guys love to go on and on about names and who is related to whom. Aragorn son of Arathorn descended from Valandil son of Isildur son of Elendil, for example...)

    Turbine does a lot of this sort of filling in the gaps in Lord of the Rings; Tolkien left a lot of references that make for potentially good stories when expanded. For example, the entire instance/raid cluster at level 75 is based on a single line in the books where Saruman is bragging to Gandalf and calls himself "...ring-maker...". Really? He made rings, presumably like the rings of power given to the nazgul (but not quite that cool, because he isn't as good at this as Sauron was), and the books never bothered to say what happened to them? Clearly, some hero must have dealt with that problem, because nobody seems to be worried about it later on, so, off we go, sending the player to deal with the Orthanc ring-forge where he's making his mini-rings-of-power (the six-man instance), and then we go try to kill off the bad guys that he gave the rings to (in the raid), so they don't turn into a problem like the nazgul...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwyndor View Post
    Back in the day Amarthiel made guest appearances in the Moors as well (GM controlled ofc, and that was under Codemasters, not sure if Turbine did it on NA servers too). Would very much like to see that kind of thing happen again...
    Loved when they had regular raids of Aughaire with special barter items rewarded for people who were there to participate. (Now that the Amarthiel storyline is complete, I guess it wouldn't make sense for her to attack anymore.)
    Kinships: Fifth Star Vagabonds on Crickhollow (Dotswith); Random Access on Arkenstone (Dottiel)

  12. #12
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    Berephon, Floon, Keth... /sigh.

    Berephon once said that the dwarven expedition to Moria in LOTRO was a temporary endeavor that would one day be resolved... Still true?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwyndor View Post
    Back in the day Amarthiel made guest appearances in the Moors as well (GM controlled ofc, and that was under Codemasters, not sure if Turbine did it on NA servers too). Would very much like to see that kind of thing happen again...
    Good times and yes the NA servers did this too. Volume I was by far the best story line, I always couldn't wait to see what was going to happen next.

    Aww Floon, how I miss you!
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    the dwarven expedition to Moria in LOTRO was a temporary endeavor that would one day be resolved...?
    I don't think you should expect the Iron Garrison to get wiped out, if that's what you mean. Rather, I'd say that the excursion into Moria is a pretty tenuous one, and they can't rightly be said to have reclaimed it yet -- and won't for many, many years. They'll have successes and they'll have failures, but I wouldn't expect a version of Moria free of dwarves.

    MoL

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadeOfLions View Post
    I don't think you should expect the Iron Garrison to get wiped out, if that's what you mean. Rather, I'd say that the excursion into Moria is a pretty tenuous one, and they can't rightly be said to have reclaimed it yet -- and won't for many, many years. They'll have successes and they'll have failures, but I wouldn't expect a version of Moria free of dwarves.

    MoL
    Bummer. Understandable, but I always wanted to see how Berephon was going to pull off that trick. Iirc, and maybe I don't, but I seem to remember him being fairly specific, that the expedition would fail and it was a story they'd tell.

  16. #16
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    Since the topic was raised, in my opinion the whole Amarthiel story is rubbish, tedious, boring. Regardless of if it is Lore or not.
    Last edited by Marancil; Jan 15 2015 at 02:11 PM.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    I seem to remember him being fairly specific, that the expedition would fail and it was a story they'd tell.
    I'm of two minds about this subject.

    Here's the first: 'in the Professor's Middle-earth, of course the Iron Garrison didn't exist. Moria remained closed-off after the passage of the Fellowship, and the dwarves didn't try to go back until well after the War of the Ring.' In this world, if we *do* allow players into Moria with the Iron Garrison, it only makes sense for the dwarves to fail utterly, because that's how we restore the status quo. This story is likely quite depressing, but it does let us hit the Undo button on sending players into Moria. This is the Strict Constructionist approach.

    Here's the second: 'A Middle-earth game that doesn't let you into Moria is leaving out not just one of the most iconic locations in all of literature, but also one of the most crucial parts of the narrative. Of course we need to find a way to allow players to experience it.' The creation of the Iron Garrison allows us a fairly reasonable way to see inside Moria without stepping all over the Fellowship on their way through. Since dwarves will eventually reclaim Moria, it makes a certain amount of sense to say that the Iron Garrison will serve as the baby-steps foundation of this effort. This is the Loose Constructionist approach.

    As you might expect, our team was divided on which approach was best, which I think is healthy -- it means we really had to debate the finer points of each in order to come up with a solution. Nothing goes into the game without thought.

    MoL

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyGazebo View Post
    Turbine took this "known history", and added the character of Amarthiel to it, along with Mordirith and the bosses you fight in the Fornost instances, so that there are some interesting faces to the otherwise mostly faceless enemies, which makes for a much better story in-game (I think the only enemy that specifically gets described in that whole chunk of history by Tolkien is the Witch-King of Angmar, better known later as leader of the Nazgul, and even he doesn't get a whole lot of detailing; we don't even get a name or dynasty or anything for him, which is interesting given how much all the good guys love to go on and on about names and who is related to whom. Aragorn son of Arathorn descended from Valandil son of Isildur son of Elendil, for example...)
    Something I find compelling about the Mordirith story is the Tolkien character he supposedly used to be. He was the last king of Gondor before Aragorn, who disappeared into Dol Guldur after being baited there by the Witch-King. As we now have reached Gondor and they are talking about the rise of the stewards, we have just recently seen the one who set all that in motion and set the stage for a return of a king.

  19. #19
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Garatha View Post
    It's a great storyline, though (in my opinion, of course). I've done Vol. I on a number of my toons - I really enjoy it. I won't give any spoilers, but it's a fun story.
    Great story indeed, it's a MoL standard! And I still boast of guessing the true identity of Mordirith halfway through it (no, I won't give any spoilers either -edit- spoilers already given as I was typing this).The only -to me- anti-immersive point in it is our character travelling back and forth all around Eriador which can't be accomplished even with a helicopter at your disposal, but Turbine have to make all regions visible and put them in the showroom in a sense so I get it...
    Last edited by Urwendil; Jan 15 2015 at 02:49 PM.

    Permanently retired. Was Kibilturg, Guardian of Imladris (then Landroval & Crickhollow) and ~40 alts.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    I believe he was laid off by Warner Brothers after they bought Turbine.
    He went as recently as last summer.

    Permanently retired. Was Kibilturg, Guardian of Imladris (then Landroval & Crickhollow) and ~40 alts.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilnoviel View Post
    Something I find compelling about the Mordirith story is the Tolkien character he supposedly used to be. He was the last king of Gondor before Aragorn, who disappeared into Dol Guldur after being baited there by the Witch-King. As we now have reached Gondor and they are talking about the rise of the stewards, we have just recently seen the one who set all that in motion and set the stage for a return of a king.
    Minas Morgul (formerly Minas Ithil). Where the Witch-King dwelt at that time.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin View Post
    Minas Morgul (formerly Minas Ithil). Where the Witch-King dwelt at that time.
    Oops. Indeed. Easier to get to from Gondor too.

    Anyway, it adds some interesting connections to current events and the players on the field.

  23. #23
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    I always interpreted the failing of the Iron Garrison as due to the impossibility of keeping the provisions flowing (with the ringwar picking up) and not getting Moria to be self sufficient in time. Plus even without Mazog another purely invented NPC with loads of attitude) the orcs still had way higher if unorganized numbers. But our character's help at least made an organized retreat possible and by then the dwarves had enough new maps and insights so the eventual successful reclaim will be a lot easier than this over-enthusiastic attempt.
    New Order, maggots: Eat more carrots! The Dark Lord isn't pleased that none of you can see further than the end of your sword.

  24. #24
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    moria

    I dont understand why the lotro team did not create Moria to evolve over time and what I mean by this is. lets say orcs are trying to move closer and closer to Twentyfirst Hall instead of having them allways being in the same area turbine could make it so slowly they start to gain more and more ground sort of like progression.

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    I wish the epics would take you back sometimes, like a little reference to your victory with Narmeleth etc.

    I also could not imagine a LOTRO without Moria. Moria's the best part next to Vol 1
    "I should call that a heavy loss, if it was not a wonder rather that in his great age he could still wield his axe as mightily as they say he did, standing over the body of King Brand before the gate of Erebor, until the darkness fell."
    http://gladdenhistory.wikispaces.com/

 

 
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