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  1. #1
    Produktion Malphunktion is offline Producer
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    The Music System updates for U15.

    Hey All!
    One of areas that I have been continually pinged about was the music system. I was in awe at what people are doing with it...i.e. Weatherstock, and started behind the scenes on how we could enhance and fix some of the issues with the system.
    This system has such a net positive effect on the game, and more importantly on community it was long overdue for some developer love. I admit one of my favorite things to do is to hang out on the barrels in front of the Prancing Pony and play Bon Ur Aur Stomp.

    So this is the short list of things that are being worked on:

    Existing Instruments:

    -pitch adjustments
    -volume adjustments
    -Balance adjustments
    -tuning pass --which already sounds awesome.

    We have a couple of stretch goals-so no promises!! NO PROMISES.

    -New Instrument- String Bass-with sustained notes.
    -New Instrument-Serpentine- Play the dragon.
    IF/when we do new instruments they will be for the ABC system only and not for Minstrel skills. Sorry, but that is the compromise we need to make.

    -Stages in the world. Yes one that can be spawned in on Weathertop for events is considered.

    I'm open to some other ideas-not for 15 but for the future.

    Later!
    Maj.

  2. #2
    * cheers *
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  3. #3
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    These all sound wonderful, and I'm happy it is somewhat on the agenda.

    Personal request, add a Sonic-Whistle/Flute, embued with magic so it is soundless to freeps, but deals damage to foes. (like a dog whistle).



    As a courtesy, when beta launches for Update 15, it may be time to let the known Minstrel Plug-in creators from years past know of changes and improvements on the way.
    Last edited by Leixy; Aug 28 2014 at 03:08 PM.
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  4. #4
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    All wonderful news. While I don't use the music system much personally, I can see new instruments being very popular.

    -Bel
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  5. #5
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    I have an idea!
    A one man stage would be cool where other players could /coinflip and donate a small amount of money to the musicians pot or hat on the ground.

  6. #6
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    This is great news. I do wish the minstrel skills could be updated, but I also understand the necessity for compromise. This is going to be awesome. I can't wait to see what the South Bree band on Crickhollow does with this.

  7. #7
    As someone who creates her own abc files for concerts I have some ideas. When I create abc files I always have to "abuse" some instruments for different purposes. For example we do not have string instruments which forces me to use the flute for a violin, bagpipe or sometimes horn for electric guitars and so on. I don't expect to see electric guitars in Lotro but a violin should probably fit the lore. A trumpet would also be great. We already have a horn but that sounds totally different than a jazz trumpet for example. A piano would be fantastic but I doubt that we can carry that in our pockets...

    Also I'm not sure if volume adjustments are necessary. We can already define volume settings inside the abc files for different notes or blocks of notes. I make heavy use of this to make the music sound more harmonic.

    Please keep in mind that bands have lots of abc files and we are not exactly keen on recreating all of them just for volume adjustments and the like. So please be careful with the changes.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fratonia View Post
    As someone who creates her own abc files for concerts I have some ideas. When I create abc files I always have to "abuse" some instruments for different purposes. For example we do not have string instruments which forces me to use the flute for a violin, bagpipe or sometimes horn for electric guitars and so on. I don't expect to see electric guitars in Lotro but a violin should probably fit the lore. A trumpet would also be great. We already have a horn but that sounds totally different than a jazz trumpet for example. A piano would be fantastic but I doubt that we can carry that in our pockets...

    Also I'm not sure if volume adjustments are necessary. We can already define volume settings inside the abc files for different notes or blocks of notes. I make heavy use of this to make the music sound more harmonic.

    Please keep in mind that bands have lots of abc files and we are not exactly keen on recreating all of them just for volume adjustments and the like. So please be careful with the changes.
    100% support this post.
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  9. #9
    Wonderful news. Anything to bring the community back together. Lord knows it needs it.

  10. #10
    This is great news! Thank you!

    There has been the need for a violin or fiddle for some time, but to be honest I would be very happy with any new instrument to experiment with

    I like the stage idea. I also have another suggestion, remove the dynamic layers for areas such as the festival halls so we can use those for music events (they are perfect for big events but the dynamic layers makes them unusable). They would only need to be off when there are not official festivals going on
    Calanne Starlight

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fratonia View Post
    Also I'm not sure if volume adjustments are necessary. We can already define volume settings inside the abc files for different notes or blocks of notes. I make heavy use of this to make the music sound more harmonic.

    Please keep in mind that bands have lots of abc files and we are not exactly keen on recreating all of them just for volume adjustments and the like. So please be careful with the changes.
    I fully support the plan for a proper run-through and adjustment of volume for all instruments. I am perfectly happy to deal with the fallout for my extensive ABC library if it means less volume tweaking, less doubling up of instruments, etc. when creating new ABC files moving forward, and especially if it means I can create powerful sounding ABCs with fewer instruments. I am utterly grateful the music system is getting a proper review and update, and in no way do I want to discourage this activity, or say anything that might lead to the adjustments being more conservative than they might otherwise have been.

  12. #12
    Join Date
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    Wonderful news!
    ;) “There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading to the same place, so it doesn’t matter which path you take. The only person wasting time is the one who runs around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.” ~ Hindu Proverb

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Produktion Malphunktion View Post
    We have a couple of stretch goals-so no promises!! NO PROMISES.

    -New Instrument- String Bass-with sustained notes.
    -New Instrument-Serpentine- Play the dragon.
    IF/when we do new instruments they will be for the ABC system only and not for Minstrel skills. Sorry, but that is the compromise we need to make.

    -Stages in the world. Yes one that can be spawned in on Weathertop for events is considered.
    This is such wonderful news I could almost cry!

    By Serpentine, do you mean a bass horn? If so, I'm incredibly excited.

    I have tried many times to bring classical orchestral music into the game, such as Carmina Burana, and it simply can't be done without sustained bass string and horn instruments. What a shame, because who doesn't want to celebrate a Draigoch kill with O Fortuna? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD3VsesSBsw)

    A stage in the middle of Weathertop and no mobs making spam would be a great boon to the annual concert.

  14. #14
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    Jun 2012
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    I had an idea of adding "skins" to the existing instruments, and because it's hard for me to type in English, I thought I'd copy/paste my old post into this thread. I hope that's OK?


    Quote Originally Posted by Silmelin View Post
    It would be great to get more "skins" for the existing instrument, that way the same animation could be used, and the sound would be the same, but we could still get some extra fun! =)

    It would look great at concerts since people could match their instruments in different ways if they want to!

    Maybe make a set of black instruments, and white ones, and silver, and gold Some instruments that might look weird completely made of gold, like the Lute, could still be made of wood, but with gold decoration
    Would be nice to have a more ornate flute and a more ornate harp that looks like it was made by the elves of Lothlorien
    Gold harp, silver harp!



    Also, maybe it would be possible to add another type of flute to the game? One that could use the same animation but look a bit different or have a different skin and have a sound that is altered a bit? I like combining Clarinet, Horn and Flute, but it would be great to have another like them, but with a different sound.
    It could be like the Cowbell and the Moor Cowbell. They have slightly different sounds
    ;) “There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading to the same place, so it doesn’t matter which path you take. The only person wasting time is the one who runs around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.” ~ Hindu Proverb

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Produktion Malphunktion View Post
    -pitch adjustments
    Brilliance!

    Quote Originally Posted by Produktion Malphunktion View Post
    -New Instrument- String Bass-with sustained notes.
    Super mega brilliance!
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  16. #16
    I've only gotten into the music system recently, so I'm not an expert on it, but this is great to hear. Also, the possibility of new instruments is very exciting! I'm looking forward to U15 even more now

  17. #17
    Produktion Malphunktion is offline Producer
    The Lord of the Rings Online™
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fratonia View Post
    As someone who creates her own abc files for concerts I have some ideas. When I create abc files I always have to "abuse" some instruments for different purposes. For example we do not have string instruments which forces me to use the flute for a violin, bagpipe or sometimes horn for electric guitars and so on. I don't expect to see electric guitars in Lotro but a violin should probably fit the lore. A trumpet would also be great. We already have a horn but that sounds totally different than a jazz trumpet for example. A piano would be fantastic but I doubt that we can carry that in our pockets...

    Also I'm not sure if volume adjustments are necessary. We can already define volume settings inside the abc files for different notes or blocks of notes. I make heavy use of this to make the music sound more harmonic.

    Please keep in mind that bands have lots of abc files and we are not exactly keen on recreating all of them just for volume adjustments and the like. So please be careful with the changes.
    We are using existing, and popular ABC's from the community for testing. If you have some that you fear may be effected, when we get U15 up on the test world try them out, if they are really out of whack send us a couple of the ABC's and we can work on it. What we are trying to do is when a band is playing the volume is more normalized, and all the instruments are in tune with each other, instead of in tune with themself...if that makes sense.

  18. #18
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    Woohoo! Looking forward to all possible changes in this arena! There are just not enough exclamation points to exude all my SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

  19. #19
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    This is very cool. It will be nice to hear the softer instruments such as harps in a large group.

    At the same time I hope they still sound good as solo instruments, too.

    Finally: call it 'fiddle'. That is the word Tolkien uses in the Hobbit I think he might also use viola...

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  20. #20
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    This is going to make a huge part of your community happy (if it works out of course).

    Makes me wonder, with that new in-house audio studio, are these being live recorded and digitized from their real world counter-parts?
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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Produktion Malphunktion View Post
    We are using existing, and popular ABC's from the community for testing. If you have some that you fear may be effected, when we get U15 up on the test world try them out, if they are really out of whack send us a couple of the ABC's and we can work on it. What we are trying to do is when a band is playing the volume is more normalized, and all the instruments are in tune with each other, instead of in tune with themself...if that makes sense.
    I'm curious what you mean by in tune with eachother - will there be an option to pull each instrument into line when playing, like auto tune? If so this could be really really good or really really bad lol

    I think the only tuning issue is the lute can often sound out of whack as if playing an out of tune guitar. Other than that the tuning is something we do when we convert to abc and most people do it very well. ABC's that sound out of tune are usually down to a bad midi to start with or being converted by someone who is tone deaf

    ETA: Shameless plug, at Halloween there is a big event on landroval, Horrorfest, which follows the success of Rockfest in the summer. For this, band will be really testing the limits of what the music system can do and playing metal, goth, rock etc. You should check it out
    Calanne Starlight

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Produktion Malphunktion View Post
    What we are trying to do is when a band is playing the volume is more normalized, and all the instruments are in tune with each other, instead of in tune with themself...if that makes sense.
    This is what I'm doing manually at the moment with the help of Maestro and sometimes by hand. I'm curious to see how you will be going to adjust volume dynamically in game.

    Please document your changes well so the creators of all those marvelous tools can adjust them more easily.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    I fully support the plan for a proper run-through and adjustment of volume for all instruments. I am perfectly happy to deal with the fallout for my extensive ABC library if it means less volume tweaking, less doubling up of instruments, etc. when creating new ABC files moving forward, and especially if it means I can create powerful sounding ABCs with fewer instruments. I am utterly grateful the music system is getting a proper review and update, and in no way do I want to discourage this activity, or say anything that might lead to the adjustments being more conservative than they might otherwise have been.
    I totally agree with you, I've made over 350+ songs myself and won't mind remaking them all if they are to bring much needed tweaks. About volume adjustment, I imagine they'll up the overall volume of the Theorbo (for which, right now, to be heard, has to be brought up to +fff+ or +ffff+ even, thus taking away potential dynamic variations through the songs.). Also, the shakers/cymbals sounds of the drums are WAY too loud in comparison to the drums/toms/snares. To work around this, over 80% of my songs have 2 parts for drums, I have to split the shakers from the drums so to put the former much lower in volume and the later higher. The Clarinet is almost always too loud and has to be brought down a LOT to be balanced with the rest of any arrangement.

    Anyways, I formerly made a pretty detailed post about all the current instruments issues and I do hope and believe it has been heard. As well as others' suggestions of course.

    A BIG cheer to you guys looking up the music system, which for me, is at the core of what makes this game stand out!

    EDIT: Oh! Almost forgot, pretty please, if you're adding stages, by all means, make sure to NOT put a wall behind where the band should be playing! As bandleader, already having to check that everyone's queued in before starting the songs, then if there was instrument swapping in between tunes, make sure they did accordingly, to have a wall behind me, forcing my camera to be up close behind my toon's head is VERY annoying. I really dislike playing on Bree stage for that reason, and I believe I'm not alone since most bands/musicians either perform by the Stables next to the Pony or in front of the Rock.
    Last edited by Tromblon; Aug 29 2014 at 03:23 AM.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Produktion Malphunktion View Post
    So this is the short list of things that are being worked on:....
    Thank you SO much!!! I have to say that this for me was really unexpected and fills me with an optimism for my continuing commitment to this game.

    No housing change or new class could have made me look forward to update 15 as much as this.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calhil View Post
    This is great news! Thank you!

    There has been the need for a violin or fiddle for some time, but to be honest I would be very happy with any new instrument to experiment with

    I like the stage idea. I also have another suggestion, remove the dynamic layers for areas such as the festival halls so we can use those for music events (they are perfect for big events but the dynamic layers makes them unusable). They would only need to be off when there are not official festivals going on
    Plus one for violin/viola/violincello pleeeeeeease! Totally within lore and would allow some really nice classical music in game.
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