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  1. #1

    Make Or Break just me ?

    Well i am currently sticking around to update 15 i pretty much play this game strictly for the pvp, i enjoy leveling up each new expansion but repetitive quests soon get boring, over the past few level caps the ettenmoors has had such a dramatic change creeps doing so much more dps with so much more morale im not sure if my account is bugged or if anyone else is experiencing this but i have 4 peice unseen burg set thats 13 audacity plus 1 extra piece thats 16 audacity i also slot 1 peice of pure mitigation's to cap fell wrought and orc craft and im still getting hit by bas on a devastating

    [08/27 11:25:30 PM] xxxxxx scored a devastating hit with Improved Vital Target on xxxxxx for 10,724 Orc-craft damage to Morale.'

    this as well as i do not understand what class weavers are supposed to be anymore are they a CC class DPS or TANK ??

    Healing in the moors is out of control that it spoils the experience, any more than a few healers join a group action soon dies (even with 1 healer its bad enough)

    This wasnt intended to be a QQ thread but i rarely tend to use forums at all, so might as well say it as i seen it i have been playing many years and this is so close compared to some previous expansions but for me its been long enough after update 15 if the PVP side of this game doesnt get some sort of overhaul and you actually put some real effort and passion into fixing it then i have had enough maybe im just getting old, i know theres alot of people who will agree aswell as disagree, and yes from creep perspective there is major changes that need to happen on freepside im just fed up with expansion after expansion nothing ever happening and turbine always taking to make new areas and expand game instead of fixing what horrible mess they created in the first place.
    As I Walk Through The Valley Of The Shadow Of Death, I Shall Fear No CREEP.
    Update 15 cant make the game any worse, lets keep fingers crossed.

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  2. #2
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    Welcome to lotro pvp

    BA VT is ridiculous and much like the old Impale, needs it's damage spread out amongst other skills. Or at least a sizeable portion of it, it also seems to hit through a massive portion of mits and entirely avoid crit D.

    I have 19 aud, 45% fw/oc mits and 70% crit D, and still take 10k VTs. If I take ALL OF THIS gear off, and go for my nuke dps build with 20% fw/oc/tac mits, 40% crit D, and 1 aud, I still take 10k VTs. Broken? Looks like it.

    VT damage does however vary massively between creeps, I have met some who will crit me for less than 3k with it, and others who will non-crit me for over 5k. None of these and the above figures include the massive bleed which effectively doubles it's overall damage. Of course, using keen-eye after 4-5 bow attacks will grant the BA a hefty damage boost and traiting correctly does the same, but these are still some astonishing differences. One click being able to do this sort of damage with a 50% heal modifier and a huge bleed is a bit odd, but there's plenty of it around on freep & creepside, and always someone who will cry BA's are underpowered. (I got a 10k REVENGE (Not even VT) on a nooby freep a few weeks ago on my rank 4 BA lol).

    As for spiders, I guess you missed the patchnotes where spiders were confirmed to have been buffed from faceroll to godmode status alongside Wardens and Wargs, never dying, doing insane dps, etc. etc.

    Weavers are DPStankControllers. Official class title, I swear. 60-85k morale, 60-80% mits (assuming not going all out mits traits lol) -30-40% inc dmg, 3 massive self heals on relatively short CDs + a morale pot 900-2000 sustained DPS with devs of up to 8k on low audacity/mits freeps. Yep.

    QQ aside, the moors is a mish-mash of damage and overhealing and you're entirely right about healing on both sides being too high for the game to be fun. I myself get rather sick of going out in a duo and every single creep I find is either a Defiler, or a Spider that's so close to a Defiler that it's basically conjoined. And upon finding these two the instant response is call out and from there it's a question of ~18-35 creeps including at least 80% healers and 10% spiders mapping in within 60 seconds. And these figures are not even made up -.-

    Still, we fight on and do what we must And again there's plenty of unbalance on both sides, I don't play creepside anymore, since the whole shooting fish in a barrel at GV thing isn't really my cup of tea, and if I'm on creepside, there's no freep soloers online to zerg...
    Absolution

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post
    it also seems to hit through a massive portion of mits and entirely avoid crit D.
    with "piercing arrows" slotted it ignores 10% of mits which seems correct for non crits and crits, but devastates are insane....
    I usually crit for 5-6k and have non crits for 3-4.5k but there are those occassional 11k vt devs and 6k revenge devs. not to mention headshot/pt ignore 40% mits, so you're looking at a 3kish crit so possibly 17k with 3 skills,
    [B]Evernight|Ronaldweasley r9[/B]
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
    with "piercing arrows" slotted it ignores 10% of mits which seems correct for non crits and crits, but devastates are insane....
    I usually crit for 5-6k and have non crits for 3-4.5k but there are those occassional 11k vt devs and 6k revenge devs. not to mention headshot/pt ignore 40% mits, so you're looking at a 3kish crit so possibly 17k with 3 skills,
    Yep this is exactly what I've found on my two BA's as well. Thanks for clearing that up, I knew there was something else that bypassed mits that I'd forgotten about, PT and Headshot! (:
    Absolution

  5. #5
    You are not wrong in your perception of spiders these days. There are some spiders I don't even bother engaging anymore. Even warleaders seem easier to bring down than spiders.

    As Ethrildar pointed out, running solo or in a duo/trio and meeting anything with a halfway competent defiler around will end up in a battle that takes so long an entire craid's worth of creeps will map in on you before you can finish the original fight.

    While I get zerged out there alone or small grouped more often than not, It makes encounters I do win more exciting.

    The key with BA's as melee is to be mobile around them and stay close. Even heavy classes with 16 aud and essence mitigations pieces can take massive damage from them. Don't stand in one spot to let them line up a shot... ever. If they get a slow on you and put some distance between you and them.. you're gonna have a bad time.

    If you're a burg, (as your icon shows) find a burg pack. They are incredibly fun and very deadly.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post
    Weavers are DPStankControllers. Official class title, I swear. 60-85k morale, 60-80% mits (assuming not going all out mits traits lol) -30-40% inc dmg, 3 massive self heals on relatively short CDs + a morale pot 900-2000 sustained DPS with devs of up to 8k on low audacity/mits freeps. Yep.
    You also forgot to include toxic carapace, which despite not reflecting DOTs is still OP as all hell. Think about all the gear you've quested, all the deeds you've completed to get your traits maxed, all that time and energy to get an LI pimped out, and with one single skill a weaver has basically acquired all your hard work and reflects the damage you're dealing right back at you. Then, even when you throw everything you've got at them to out-last their insane DOTs, self-heals, TC, and are getting the upper hand, they BURROW and regain full health. If you somehow manage to continue as fair a fight as possible after they pop out and start drilling them down again, they'll web, run to the nearest cliff and throw themselves off it, because guess what? They have FALL IMMUNITY on top of everything else!

    Single-most over-the-top ridiculous class in the game, bar none.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
    with "piercing arrows" slotted it ignores 10% of mits which seems correct for non crits and crits, but devastates are insane....
    I usually crit for 5-6k and have non crits for 3-4.5k but there are those occassional 11k vt devs and 6k revenge devs. not to mention headshot/pt ignore 40% mits, so you're looking at a 3kish crit so possibly 17k with 3 skills,
    How much crit rating do you trait?
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by HinderSpam View Post
    How much crit rating do you trait?
    3 crit and the "deadly arrows" trait. So that's 40% i think.
    [B]Evernight|Ronaldweasley r9[/B]
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
    3 crit and the "deadly arrows" trait. So that's 40% i think.
    how much -50% inc healing do you trait?
    Do Not Meddle in the Affairs of Wizards, For They Are subtle and Quick To Anger.

    Armdyl ''Army'' The Loremaster - Secretly afraid of Reavers, Wargs, Blackarrows, spiders, and Defilers. Even More Terrified of eye gouge's 3 second cool-down.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undertakerxx View Post
    how much -50% inc healing do you trait?
    I think it's fair to VT classes with heavy mits. I rarely VT light/medium armour outside of 1v1s, unless they are healing a lot

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post
    VT damage does however vary massively between creeps, I have met some who will crit me for less than 3k with it, and others who will non-crit me for over 5k. None of these and the above figures include the massive bleed which effectively doubles it's overall damage. (I got a 10k REVENGE (Not even VT) on a nooby freep a few weeks ago on my rank 4 BA lol).
    LOL at the warden complaining about VT and it's "massive" bleed, VT or not your target is going to bleed to death because of your MASSIVE 3k-4k bleeds

    Revenge is supposed to crit stupidly high, even after being nerfed once. I am not surprised you crit that much on a "nooby" freep.


    Oh and by the way Revenge used to apply a DoT on crit.
    (After it drained all your power and it was curable, hit pretty weak and it got resisted a lot)
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post
    Weavers are DPStankControllers. Official class title, I swear. 60-85k morale, 60-80% mits (assuming not going all out mits traits lol) -30-40% inc dmg, 3 massive self heals on relatively short CDs + a morale pot 900-2000 sustained DPS with devs of up to 8k on low audacity/mits freeps. Yep.
    not quite right there mits cap at 60% with born of shadows going over the cap (its actually bugged to tier up to 20% instead of 10%) so they can hit 80% mits when tiered up IF they stack mits. those 3 massive heals on a short cd 1 of them is from eating the hatchling (spiders can't summon in combat like freeps can and it dies if a freep even looks at it), the 2nd is from a defeat response so unless theres a freep zerg,u run to npc's or u have 1 of those "smart" rks that keep dropping stones that heal is pretty much eliminated. the 3rd heal is on a low enough cd to be almost spamable but since it takes all venom pips it lowers a spiders damage and resist penetration so not smart to spam. and your not gonna be able to high dps while stacking mits and morale and spam healing yourself. while spiders are able to do high damage,have high mits and lots of heals they won't do all at the same time. I usually run a full damage build that has barely 50k morale and low mits(no born of shadows and no hatchling or extra mits from hatchling traits) unless i'm soloing keeps or LOOKING for 4+v1's with the hope of getting 1 kill before i die. So while i do agree with freeps who think spiders are far to op freeps tend to exaggerate spiders god mode qualities.I know that i personally die a lot even though spiders are "un killable" but i also am always solo never run with zerg at gv and attack groups of 2-6 more than i attack solos so i am bound to die allot more then the avg fotm spider that stays at gv with a horde of defilers backing them up.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by HinderSpam View Post
    I think it's fair to VT classes with heavy mits. I rarely VT light/medium armour outside of 1v1s, unless they are healing a lot
    I just find it redic. on how much it can be spammed with a -5sec reset on PT and PT itself has a 5 sec cooldown...
    Do Not Meddle in the Affairs of Wizards, For They Are subtle and Quick To Anger.

    Armdyl ''Army'' The Loremaster - Secretly afraid of Reavers, Wargs, Blackarrows, spiders, and Defilers. Even More Terrified of eye gouge's 3 second cool-down.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undertakerxx View Post
    I just find it redic. on how much it can be spammed with a -5sec reset on PT and PT itself has a 5 sec cooldown...
    Do you know what "spam" means? Unless PT gives -50seconds off of VT then it can't be "spammed"
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by HinderSpam View Post
    Do you know what "spam" means? Unless PT gives -50seconds off of VT then it can't be "spammed"
    Relative to every other cooldown skill in the game, it is spammed relentlessly.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    Relative to every other cooldown skill in the game, it is spammed relentlessly.
    Ok, but if he applies windlore and covers it and uses a raven pet I can't imagine him losing to many blackarrows. Oh wait this is Armdyl he can't think he can only QQ
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisisanewname View Post
    not quite right there mits cap at 60% with born of shadows going over the cap (its actually bugged to tier up to 20% instead of 10%) so they can hit 80% mits when tiered up IF they stack mits. those 3 massive heals on a short cd 1 of them is from eating the hatchling (spiders can't summon in combat like freeps can and it dies if a freep even looks at it), the 2nd is from a defeat response so unless theres a freep zerg,u run to npc's or u have 1 of those "smart" rks that keep dropping stones that heal is pretty much eliminated. the 3rd heal is on a low enough cd to be almost spamable but since it takes all venom pips it lowers a spiders damage and resist penetration so not smart to spam. and your not gonna be able to high dps while stacking mits and morale and spam healing yourself. while spiders are able to do high damage,have high mits and lots of heals they won't do all at the same time. I usually run a full damage build that has barely 50k morale and low mits(no born of shadows and no hatchling or extra mits from hatchling traits) unless i'm soloing keeps or LOOKING for 4+v1's with the hope of getting 1 kill before i die. So while i do agree with freeps who think spiders are far to op freeps tend to exaggerate spiders god mode qualities.I know that i personally die a lot even though spiders are "un killable" but i also am always solo never run with zerg at gv and attack groups of 2-6 more than i attack solos so i am bound to die allot more then the avg fotm spider that stays at gv with a horde of defilers backing them up.
    Much information I'm already aware of.

    I did indeed forget to mention the laughably overpowered reflect (dots or no dots) in my overview of Spiders.

    Mits don't appear to cap at 60% my friend. I've seen screenshots of spiders with 96% mitigations.

    I achieve 76% mits both phys and tac using only 3 of each corruption + the 20% bonus from BoS. That leaves me six more corruption slots (the old maximum) to get plenty of other stuff into my build, namely a little crit and some morale. This is not really much of a trade-off and allows for a tremendously overpowered build.

    The 3rd heal (Drink Deep) using up Venom isn't reallllly reducing your damage all that much, since you can use it, use Virulent to get back to max pips, and carry on DPS'ing as normal, and Drink Deep also hits CRAZY hard anyway. Then repeat as necessary.

    I have seen your spider and killed you many a time, you're immensely squishy and your DPS is marginally better than most other spiders, you could really benefit from more morale.

    Quote Originally Posted by HinderSpam View Post
    LOL at the warden complaining about VT and it's "massive" bleed, VT or not your target is going to bleed to death because of your MASSIVE 3k-4k bleeds
    Ah, my apologies for noting that one BA skill can remove 75% of a players morale, when Warden bleeds are so tremendously overpowered that my biggest bleed (when I pop my 50% damage boost cooldown) will, if lucky on crits, remove ~15,000 morale from an 80,000 morale BA. I agree, very overpowered indeed. Yes, Wards have more bleeds but we're a bleed class. As far as it goes, the only thing even remotely comparable to VT's bleed is Rune-keepers Epic Conclusion bleed which also requires a 3minute CD, and isn't a problem since Epic Conclusion will dev for about 9k on any decent Black-arrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by HinderSpam View Post
    Revenge is supposed to crit stupidly high.
    Oh, well then I guess that makes 12k crits totally reasonable Thanks for clearing that one up.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by HinderSpam View Post
    Ok, but if he applies windlore and covers it and uses a raven pet I can't imagine him losing to many blackarrows. Oh wait this is Armdyl he can't think he can only QQ
    did you read what you wrote? creeps QQing got wind-lore nerfed into the ground and raven pet can be easily interrupted if you were a ''smart'' ba there. store bought VT chumps could easily beat many LMs now a days. give me your 80k morale and I will give you my 19k morale lets see how the critting fairs.
    Do Not Meddle in the Affairs of Wizards, For They Are subtle and Quick To Anger.

    Armdyl ''Army'' The Loremaster - Secretly afraid of Reavers, Wargs, Blackarrows, spiders, and Defilers. Even More Terrified of eye gouge's 3 second cool-down.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undertakerxx View Post
    did you read what you wrote? creeps QQing got wind-lore nerfed into the ground and raven pet can be easily interrupted if you were a ''smart'' ba there. store bought VT chumps could easily beat many LMs now a days. give me your 80k morale and I will give you my 19k morale lets see how the critting fairs.
    LOL I noticed this too, hahah! I forgot to mention it in my above post.

    Yeah. Wind-lore got nerfed to shi...

    +1% incoming damage, OP.

    You can trait into yellow for Fire-lore + lightning strike though, but it's hardly the same and can be easily avoided by simply using a potion. lol
    Absolution

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post
    LOL I noticed this too, hahah! I forgot to mention it in my above post.

    Yeah. Wind-lore got nerfed to shi...

    +1% incoming damage, OP.

    You can trait into yellow for Fire-lore + lightning strike though, but it's hardly the same and can be easily avoided by simply using a potion. lol
    not to mention those traits to get a -50% ranged debuff require a fire+ lightning skill and lms only have 2 lightning skills and the debuff instead of stacking on each other like they should so it would be a decent debuff it actually replaces the debuffs everytime you use a fire or frost or lightning. so there is no way to keep debuffs like that on creeps unless you stand there and look pretty. but like I said allowing those debuffs to stack might help abit but then that might look bad on the creeps who paid off the LM dev.
    Do Not Meddle in the Affairs of Wizards, For They Are subtle and Quick To Anger.

    Armdyl ''Army'' The Loremaster - Secretly afraid of Reavers, Wargs, Blackarrows, spiders, and Defilers. Even More Terrified of eye gouge's 3 second cool-down.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post

    Ah, my apologies for noting that one BA skill can remove 75% of a players morale, when Warden bleeds are so tremendously overpowered that my biggest bleed (when I pop my 50% damage boost cooldown) will, if lucky on crits, remove ~15,000 morale from an 80,000 morale BA. I agree, very overpowered indeed. Yes, Wards have more bleeds but we're a bleed class. As far as it goes, the only thing even remotely comparable to VT's bleed is Rune-keepers Epic Conclusion bleed which also requires a 3minute CD, and isn't a problem since Epic Conclusion will dev for about 9k on any decent Black-arrow.



    Oh, well then I guess that makes 12k crits totally reasonable Thanks for clearing that one up.
    If VT can remove 75% of your morale and Revenge can crit 12k, you're saying there has been a blackarrow who 2shotted you? HAH. I call bull####, VT cannot and will not take 75% of a wardens health away, even with the ~500 dmg bleed.

    Also I say BS again for Revenge critting 12k, I dev crit 7k and think that's an incredible hit.
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