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Thread: End-Game Champ

  1. #101
    Join Date
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    Are you finding that having your finesse that low impacts your damage much, or have the b/p/e changes made finesse less relevant?

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaerata View Post
    Are you finding that having your finesse that low impacts your damage much, or have the b/p/e changes made finesse less relevant?
    I tested it in Silent Street and Blood of the Black Serpent this evening and got around 0.4% block and parry each and 1.2% evade with this finesse rating. So slightly more would be ideal, but it does not have a big impact on my damage.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Schaijian View Post
    I tested it in Silent Street and Blood of the Black Serpent this evening and got around 0.4% block and parry each and 1.2% evade with this finesse rating. So slightly more would be ideal, but it does not have a big impact on my damage.
    As always, that's an awesome champ build you have there Schaijian .. Just a quick question about finesse, how much of it do we really need? I understand that for normal world environment we can do with just <10k finesse since landscape mobs don't have high mitigations or b/p/e, but how much finesse do we need for T2? Is 10k sufficient or should we stack up to 15-16k?

    Thank you and I greatly appreciate you always sharing your setup with us. It helps tremendously in setting up our builds

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by ArraZ View Post
    As always, that's an awesome champ build you have there Schaijian .. Just a quick question about finesse, how much of it do we really need? I understand that for normal world environment we can do with just <10k finesse since landscape mobs don't have high mitigations or b/p/e, but how much finesse do we need for T2? Is 10k sufficient or should we stack up to 15-16k?

    Thank you and I greatly appreciate you always sharing your setup with us. It helps tremendously in setting up our builds
    Those numbers I mentioned were from T2 runs. Thus it seems 9-10k finesse is enough in those as well and even having a bit lower does not really decrease your damage much - after all it was a combined 2% BPE which is not a big deal and hardly noticable as an effect on DPS compared to normal fluctuation due to crit luck and such things. So for now I will stay with this finesse value even for T2.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by ArraZ View Post
    As always, that's an awesome champ build you have there Schaijian .. Just a quick question about finesse, how much of it do we really need? I understand that for normal world environment we can do with just <10k finesse since landscape mobs don't have high mitigations or b/p/e, but how much finesse do we need for T2? Is 10k sufficient or should we stack up to 15-16k?

    Thank you and I greatly appreciate you always sharing your setup with us. It helps tremendously in setting up our builds
    For dpsing, you need a bit less finesse than you did previously. Bear in mind the changes to b/e/p which have also affected mob b/e/p. This means that if you are positioned well (behind whoever you are attacking), you only need enough finesse to bypass the evade of the mob, so around 10k rating is plenty. You will still get a bunch of partial evades, regardless of your finesse rating, since finesse does not lower partial avoidance chances (which I personally think is an oversight given the changes). If you find that there are times you cannot avoid fighting mobs from in front of them, (for example you're being asked to off tank stuff), then going a bit higher finesse will help.

    If you are chanking though, it's a completely different ball game. You are generally always fighting mobs from their front, and so you have to roll against their combined b/e/p. Furthermore, given our lack of force taunts we NEED to hit the mobs we are tanking (and hopefully crit a lot), in order to hold agro, especially against top dps'ers. I have been chanking with around 15k rating and still find that it is not enough. I only get 3-4% b/e/p's, which is not much, but if those b/e/p's happen at the beginning of fights, or on my big skills (which they seem to always happen on), then I'm playing catchup in terms of threat.

  6. #106

    Stacking Percentage Bonuses

    Hey Guys.

    Do you know how the percentage bonuses stack? I have the HD (Neck/Earring)10% bonus, Osg T2 10% set bonus (both red and yellow line), and the Orc-Carvers 10% set bonus. Each is 10% if I recall correctly.

    Thanks

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeder44 View Post
    Hey Guys.

    Do you know how the percentage bonuses stack? I have the HD (Neck/Earring)10% bonus, Osg T2 10% set bonus (both red and yellow line), and the Orc-Carvers 10% set bonus. Each is 10% if I recall correctly.

    Thanks
    Thats one thing I am not really sure about because my tests so far gave strange results.

    I tested the following combinations:

    full level 105 four slot essence set - essence set & Osgilliath armour - essence set & Osgilliath armour & big battle jewellery

    I did this test in yellow only so far, as I do not have level 105 Osgilliath berserker armour by now.
    What I did as a test was comparing the high end damage values in the tooltips for the four skills mostly doing the main damage: Raging Blade, Fury of Blades, Bladewall and Rend.
    This I did for the three named combinations under three conditions each. First one totally unbuffed, second one with selfbuffs only (battle lore, hope token, food, Great Cleave, Exchange of Blows, True Heroics) and third one with selfbuffs and three Anthems of War from a yellow Minstrel to simulate a raid buffed situation.

    And as I already said, the results are a bit confusing. I will not go into details with excact numbers (mainly because I forgot to take screenshots and am too lazy at the moment to do the test again), but through all these setups it was not consistent what is the better choice, going full essence or using the +10% AoE bonusses. For Bladewall and Fury of Blades the damage was higher using a full essence setup, Raging Blade and Rend had higher values with the AoE bonusses. In most cases the difference was within a very small margin (something like 9850 : 9900), only for the fully buffed Raging Blade the difference was a bit higher (13500:13800 or something like that).
    Confusing here is that I would have understood if Bladewall and Raging Blade would be the two skills not getting better with the AoE bonus because both of them receive strong damage buffs in the yellow line (+100% Bladewall damage and +60% Raging Blade damage), so another +10/20% on top of all other bonusses would not be enough to overcome the loss in PM, but as I said, Bladewall was weaker with +AoE bonus (understandable), but Raging Blade was the skill which gained the most from Osgilliath armour and BB jewellery (this I do not understand).
    So in conclusion, I am not sure which way leads to an overall higher damage, but even if one or the other is the winner, the difference is that low, that it would be more then hard to be measured in a real combat situation.
    I decided to stay with the full essence solution for the moment.
    Last edited by Schaijian; May 23 2016 at 04:59 PM.

  8. #108
    Thanks for the reply. I guess we'll have to see on that one.

    Here's a question. In yellow line do you notice any appreciable difference in dps or max targets by traiting additional AOE targets in yellow. I have not traited for the additional targets, choosing to use my trait points elsewhere. Honestly I'm not sure how many targets I hit at one time, but it seems to be any target within reach. I routinely pull 32.4 k dps in the Silent Streets fight (T1) when traited yellow against Lintanar. I don't have nearly the PM of Schaijian, so I can't imagine what your dps is in that fight.

    Thanks

  9. #109
    I don't know what my problem is, but i am not seeing all these massive dps numbers on my CombatAnalysis (a fellow champ in a group told me that i must have been doing something wrong if i was only doing 12k in SS 1st boss T1), which is strange, seeing as i've got decent stats and legacies, so if anyone has any ideas, they'd be appreciated. At the moment (only got 2 of the new 4-slot essence pieces so far, so still got my old DA stuff on) I generally run (unbuffed) with ~19k morale, 65-70k PM, capped crit, 11k finesse; using Horn of gondor stun, rend, fury of blades, blade wall, raging blades at the start of fights, then using raging and fury of blades as much as possible, using rend and blade wall a lot. Thing is, i still kill things very quickly (i think, quicker than a lot of my kinnies it seems), and have managed to keep aggro in a fight against a dps warden and a fully traited tank.

    Any ideas on what my probem is? Tried changing up rotation, swapping gear around, uninstalling and reinstalling CA…

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeder44 View Post
    Thanks for the reply. I guess we'll have to see on that one.

    Here's a question. In yellow line do you notice any appreciable difference in dps or max targets by traiting additional AOE targets in yellow. I have not traited for the additional targets, choosing to use my trait points elsewhere. Honestly I'm not sure how many targets I hit at one time, but it seems to be any target within reach. I routinely pull 32.4 k dps in the Silent Streets fight (T1) when traited yellow against Lintanar. I don't have nearly the PM of Schaijian, so I can't imagine what your dps is in that fight.

    Thanks
    Actually I never considered not using the additional targets from yellow line so I can not answer wether it really does what it says and how it impacts our damage.
    On T1 Silent Street I can not give you any numbers to compare with because I have only done it once or twice in some - let's say strange - PUG until I decided to only do T2 runs within my kin. There my DPS in the Linthanar fight is mostly between 30 and 40k but this depends of course on group composition and crit luck and the timing of the add waves - sometimes I have to hold back a bit to give the tank enough time to grap all new adds.

    @ lele1100

    Your stats look fine as well as the skills you are using (remember to renew the rend and horn buff whenever necessary). PM and morale could be higher, but that is partly due to not having the full level 105 equipment of course and not something to worry about.
    Nevertheless 12k DPS really looks low for that fight - as long as you and your group are doing the usual AoE zerg tactics. As already mentioned above, DPS of course depends a lot on your groups buffs, namely captains and yellow minstrels. I assume you are going will a full yellow build in this fight?

  11. #111
    Maxing out AoE targets trait is a no-brainer imo. Not just for the extra targets, but at max rank it turns Swift Strike into Swift Blade. I try to use this skill as much as possible, so I don't end up waiting for CDs. It might not be a skill that hits like a truck, but it's lightning fast. When it turns into swift blade not only do you obviously hit more targets with it, it also then benefits from bonusses from traits and LIs like +blade skill dmg and +aoe skill dmg etc, making it much more potent.

  12. #112
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damgorn View Post
    Maxing out AoE targets trait is a no-brainer imo. Not just for the extra targets, but at max rank it turns Swift Strike into Swift Blade. I try to use this skill as much as possible, so I don't end up waiting for CDs. It might not be a skill that hits like a truck, but it's lightning fast. When it turns into swift blade not only do you obviously hit more targets with it, it also then benefits from bonusses from traits and LIs like +blade skill dmg and +aoe skill dmg etc, making it much more potent.
    Pretty much this, though I don't use it "as much as possible" but more like a filler when my other AoE skills are on CD.

  13. #113
    @ lele1100

    Your stats look fine as well as the skills you are using (remember to renew the rend and horn buff whenever necessary). PM and morale could be higher, but that is partly due to not having the full level 105 equipment of course and not something to worry about.
    Nevertheless 12k DPS really looks low for that fight - as long as you and your group are doing the usual AoE zerg tactics. As already mentioned above, DPS of course depends a lot on your groups buffs, namely captains and yellow minstrels. I assume you are going will a full yellow build in this fight?[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, full yellow, and that example was in an AoE zerg. I'm at a bit of a loss as to why the numbers i'm seeing are so low. Either i'm doing something massively wrong, which doesn't seem to be the problem, or i don't know

  14. #114
    Good info guys. I completely missed the change to maxing out that trait. I'll max it tonight and see how it impacts DPS.

    lele1100-Yeah. Things look ok as far as what you've posted. Maybe look at your LI relics, but I honestly can't think of a variable that would keep your dps so low. I don't know what server you're on, but if it's Crick look me up and we can run some stuff together and take a look.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeder44 View Post
    lele1100-Yeah. Things look ok as far as what you've posted. Maybe look at your LI relics, but I honestly can't think of a variable that would keep your dps so low. I don't know what server you're on, but if it's Crick look me up and we can run some stuff together and take a look.
    i'm on Evernight, so no can do. I don't think it's got to do with m relics either, as i've used them to focus on crit/attack duration. And i doubt they'd have such a huge impact on my dps even if they were completely wrong. I'll put out a ridiculous theory here and say maybe CA isn't perfected for use with a Mac (what i've got). Or maybe i need to mess about with the CA settings…

  16. #116

    Critical Rating

    I was wondering.....how do you guys have so much crit rating? I require about 7 crit shards to cap while you guys only put in like 1 or 2....if you guys could answer my question thanks^^

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirigo View Post
    I was wondering.....how do you guys have so much crit rating? I require about 7 crit shards to cap while you guys only put in like 1 or 2....if you guys could answer my question thanks^^
    I assume you are using PM based relics on your LI. I am using the crit setings and gems here. Statwise you are far better off this way then using PM settings and gems. Crit rating on settings goes up to about 1450 and 1300 on gems AFAIK whereas PM only is about 700, compared to 1310 crit rating and up to 1566PM on essences. So using relics for crit and essences for PM is the better choice then the other way round.

  18. #118
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    Schaijjan:

    Why are you using a mix of Physical Mastery essences and Masterful Might, instead of only Might? Is it to get higher crit or is it another reason?

    Also, could you link the gold pocket item from SS? Drops from last boss on t2c?
    Simsim of Evernight

  19. #119
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    Using PM essences to tweak you Crit yields more mastery in the end, besides giving the flexibility to tweak in finer steps.

    As for the Hilt from Silent Street - here you go: https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Hilt_of_Eärnil

    Edit says: Yes, the pocket item only drops from the challenge chest in Silent Street.

  20. #120
    I've noticed that my setup is slightly different than most other end-game champs I'm seeing lately. I believe that is most likely due to the reason that I went with more of a PvP approach towards gear. However, I find the builds I've made, work just as well in any PvE content too.

    Here is the first build:

    Build 1: Full glass cannon, with only Physical Mitigation overcapped for T2.



    Important Stats breakdown (self-buffed with Scrolls/Food/Token):

    - Morale: 27K
    - Mastery: 91K
    - Critical Rating: 14.3K (26.2%) -- [Gets capped with Flurry and Captain's Tactics, something that I always have in groups]
    - Finesse: 9.5K
    - Physical Mitigation: 24.7K
    - Rest of the stats in the screenshot.

    * This is a build that I use for most T2s, unless there's tactical damage involved. I also use this build for SS T2c up till first boss.


    Build 2: The same build, but only with Tactical Mitigation swap Rings to overcap it for T2 content.

    Click to view.


    Build 3: Additional Critical Defence and Finesse Swaps. I use these when I'm off tanking something. (Tact mit swaps equipped on this screenshot too.)

    Click to view.


    Build 4: PvP build, with overcapped OC/FW mits and slightly overcapped tact mit 18.2K, which I feel is sufficient for Moors. The bracelet swaps are explained in the screenshot.

    Click to view.


    Additional screenshots:

    1) Yellow Line LIs (DW and 2h setup):

    Click to view.


    2) Red Line LIs:

    Click to view.


    3) Yellow Line Traits (Hybrid setup):

    Click to view.


    4) Red Line Traits:

    Click to view.


    That's pretty much it. The only thing missing is the Hilt, which I've given up on, till it's put on a barter. It's stupid that I wasn't able to get it in 30 or so runs, let alone even see a Might one dropping. All I saw were Wills and Agis ones, which is part of the reason that I'm not grinding for it again.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by lele1100 View Post
    I don't know what my problem is, but i am not seeing all these massive dps numbers on my CombatAnalysis (a fellow champ in a group told me that i must have been doing something wrong if i was only doing 12k in SS 1st boss T1), which is strange, seeing as i've got decent stats and legacies, so if anyone has any ideas, they'd be appreciated. At the moment (only got 2 of the new 4-slot essence pieces so far, so still got my old DA stuff on) I generally run (unbuffed) with ~19k morale, 65-70k PM, capped crit, 11k finesse; using Horn of gondor stun, rend, fury of blades, blade wall, raging blades at the start of fights, then using raging and fury of blades as much as possible, using rend and blade wall a lot. Thing is, i still kill things very quickly (i think, quicker than a lot of my kinnies it seems), and have managed to keep aggro in a fight against a dps warden and a fully traited tank.

    Any ideas on what my probem is? Tried changing up rotation, swapping gear around, uninstalling and reinstalling CA…
    Is you champ Elmund?because i think it was in those runs that we played.
    I mean,with only 64k mastery atm,when played that ss farming i had even lower i had 44k+ dps in ss t1,But ofc,since there are champs here with 90k+ they would probably have 55-60k dps

  22. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Schaijian View Post
    I assume you are using PM based relics on your LI. I am using the crit setings and gems here. Statwise you are far better off this way then using PM settings and gems. Crit rating on settings goes up to about 1450 and 1300 on gems AFAIK whereas PM only is about 700, compared to 1310 crit rating and up to 1566PM on essences. So using relics for crit and essences for PM is the better choice then the other way round.
    Ah yeah...thats what made me curious, cause i have all the crit settings and gems on my wep and class item, they're all maxed out but im still short by alot...

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strmi View Post
    Is you champ Elmund?because i think it was in those runs that we played.
    I mean,with only 64k mastery atm,when played that ss farming i had even lower i had 44k+ dps in ss t1,But ofc,since there are champs here with 90k+ they would probably have 55-60k dps
    In fact,just now had 20k dps on right boss in SS T2C -> red line full ST traited with 74k mastery with all buffs.-> http://postimg.org/image/kr0t9r423/full/
    Champ is awesome,lol.I think i could actually now gear it up full supreme essences

  24. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Strmi View Post
    Is you champ Elmund?because i think it was in those runs that we played.
    I mean,with only 64k mastery atm,when played that ss farming i had even lower i had 44k+ dps in ss t1,But ofc,since there are champs here with 90k+ they would probably have 55-60k dps
    Nope, that's not me, my champ is named Athirin. That's what i mean though, if you were doing 44k+ dps with only 64k mastery, i should have been doing a bit more than that seeing as, in the run i'm thinking of, i might have even been running with less morale and slightly more PM than i usually do now (maybe 17k morale and 74k PM? can't remember too well, as it was a few weeks ago).

  25. #125
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    392
    Is the physical mitt debuff worth a legacy on your AoE rune stone? Haven't tested the dps figures with or without so not sure if it is actually worth it?

    Also can i ask what redline rotation everyone uses as i seem to be terrible with redline vs yellow. I can out dps myself on ST in yellow than i can in red which to me is definitley off. Can only parse like 3-4k on the boss at the end of DoS in redline so any help i could get would be appreciated

 

 
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