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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    657

    Question: "BPE, Resistance and Finesse" Calculations

    Does someone know how these stats are exactely calculated?
    I did some testing in the moors (freep hitting creep with auto-attacks and vice versa) but I was not able to draw clear conclusions from my results. I used the CombatAnalysis plugin to generate data.

    Some (made up) examples:

    1) I have 23% block, 22% parry and 10% evade -> Does that mean I have an overall avoidance of 23+22+10 = 55% if the enemy has 0 Finesse? (simple addition: b+p+e)
    OR:
    2) Does it mean that I have 23% block -> 77% left. 0.23block+(0.77*0.22parry) = 39.9% block or parry -> 60.1% left. 0.399block or parry+(0.601*0.1evade) = 45.9% total avoidance if my enemy has 0 Finesse?
    - I think example No. 2 is correct but I can't say for sure.

    Now let's calculate Finesse: my enemy has 20% Finesse.
    1) Does that mean TotalAvoidance = BPE - Finesse -> TotalAvoidance = 45,9% - 20% = 25,9%? (simple substraction: bpe-finesse) ?
    OR
    2) Does it mean that TotalAvoidance = BPE - (BPE * 20%) -> 36,7% ?
    - Testing Finesse vs. BPE showed quite clear that Finesse has an huge impact on Avoidance which leads to my assumption that No 1 is correct but I'm not totally sure though.


    Testing Finesse vs. Resistance was very confusing for me. I had a Lore-Master spamming "Sign of Battle: Wizard's Fire" on my Reaver for quite some time.
    While it was quite clear that a high resistance rating increases my chance to resist as expected, it seems like it makes no difference at all if the LM has 0 or 10k Finesse. Is Finesse vs. Resistance bugged, maybe?


    Clarification appreciated
    Thx in advance!
    Eruadarion | Captain | Avorthalier Kinship
    on Gwaihir [EU-DE]

  2. #2
    As far as I know, the percentages of bpe work additively, so you'd have 55% bpe.

    I believe the game works like this, in your example situation: get a random number from 0 to 100, if it's lower than 23, you block, if it's between 23 and 45, you parry, if it's between 45 and 55, you evade.

    I'm unsure how finesse works into this.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    In the lore-master forum there's a thread about resistance being bugged recently...perhaps you have isolated it to a broken finesse issue there.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathili View Post
    As far as I know, the percentages of bpe work additively, so you'd have 55% bpe.

    I believe the game works like this, in your example situation: get a random number from 0 to 100, if it's lower than 23, you block, if it's between 23 and 45, you parry, if it's between 45 and 55, you evade.

    I'm unsure how finesse works into this.
    This is correct. BPE has been additive since the beginning. If you run combat analysis you should see your B+P+E being close to the three added up in your character sheet. The longer the fight the better your results will be.

    After BPE there is a second roll for partial BPE, after which it moves on to crit etc...

    edit: As to finesse, I am pretty sure when it came out back in RoI(?) a developer stated that it was a direct subtraction from your total BPE. So as in (1) in your example . I also recall at the time that some raid bosses had their own pretty high finesse, which really harmed Warden tanking at the time as they relied more heavily on BPE than Guardians.

    Ah this brings back memories of how screwed over Wardens were with RoI, lol. Finesse, non-scaling heals, and the heavy armour mitigation jump to 70% while wardens were at 50%. Took nearly 6 months to get back to a decent place. So many left...
    Last edited by danno8; Aug 14 2014 at 11:12 AM.

  5. #5
    Yes, as said before I tested and first game roll is for avoid or not, for 20% on every avoid: 1-20 block, 21-40 parry, 41-60 evade. If number is higher than 60 then it hits and then another roll for partial avoids(or so I read everywhere in forums it was). Finesse works, as far as I know reducing each avoid chance (not sure if it affects partials too) before the roll. So with 30% reduction from finesse, you will have the total number reduced and distributed between all 3 avoids(I only tested on my warden with all capped avoidances so I think it's a simple /3 calculation...maybe it's calculated proportional, so 20% block and 10% parry with a 15% reduction is around 10 block and 5 parry). So 30%/3=10% direct reduction to your avoidances (that's why it's so hard hitting avoidances, cause if it reduced by a 20% of the rating or of % from each avoid it would just reduce like 4% chance on each avoid). So that would mean instead of 20% each avoid it is now 10% to each avoid, reducing by half your avoidances. At least finesse is not so high apart from some raid bosses (like 15k rating is needed in lvl 100 to reach that 30%) and some bugged enemies that seem to have higher finesse than some bosses even(I remember trash pulls from Seat of the Great Goblin T2 reduced my avoids from 65% in total to only 30%).

    It's just a bad mechanic in my oppinion. It should not exist or maybe add back the base miss chance and make finesse reduce your miss chance, because for some classes (wardens, burglars and hunters) it was a really huge hit, since they relied too much on avoidances to survive. They could even add just more requirement for ratings...like remove finesse from enemies or from the game entirely and make avoid cap on 20k or so, so it's really hard to be all capped but you can build an avoidance set for example and yet expect to survive.

    EDIT: I don't like caps...if it was on my hand I'd remove all caps on every rating but make every rating requirement higher...so someone who wanna have 60% block would have it even with 0 evade or parry but would be almost impossible to reach 100% on any stat given the rating needed for it would be just impossible to reach with current gear. Same for critical rating...I would prefer no cap but rating requirement greatly increased (such as mastery right now), so maybe you can have 50% crit chance all the time but need to stay with a really low mastery, that way people can really customize their class and would be more interesting to build different sets with different stats. The essence system would be more useful this way.
    Last edited by Kander; Aug 14 2014 at 12:32 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    657
    Quote Originally Posted by danno8 View Post
    edit: As to finesse, I am pretty sure when it came out back in RoI(?) a developer stated that it was a direct subtraction from your total BPE. So as in (1) in your example . I also recall at the time that some raid bosses had their own pretty high finesse, which really harmed Warden tanking at the time as they relied more heavily on BPE than Guardians.
    If this is correct, we are actually able to bring our enemy's avoidance to 0%?
    Let's say I have 25% Finesse and I fighting 1:1 against a low-rank creep that has only 20% Avoidance (block + parry + evade) -> Not a single skill should be blocked/parried/evaded right?
    I will test it again but I think there is always a minimum chance to b/p/e even if "%Finesse > %B+P+E"
    Eruadarion | Captain | Avorthalier Kinship
    on Gwaihir [EU-DE]

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,780
    the trolls in BfE t1 have zero finesse rating, it is a good place to test it out over a long duration fight.

    And yes, it is additive, the only thing that comes before b/p/e is Miss chance. And yes, miss chance does exist in lotro it is just not a large calculation for mobs anymore. Miss chance without debuffs is mostly in the realm of positioning, or being a moving target which increases miss chance because enemy mobs have an attack radius for each attack, if you can strafe ahead of the radius, it is likely they might miss you. As far as debuffs, hunters can do +10% miss chance debuff with light oil, and burgs at least 20% miss chance debuff. Other classes can do a few + miss debuffs as well.

    That means there is two rolls that occur when a mob attacks you.

    Roll 1-100, if mob debuffed for 30% missed chance (hunter and burg debuff)

    1-30, miss
    31-100 hit

    On hit, Roll 1-100
    1-23 block
    24-45 parry
    46-55 evade
    56-100 partial block/parry/evade or full hit. (depends on rating and a few other factors)

    If you max

    Btw, my guard is 25.2 block, 25.8% parry, and 19.1% evade at 100 and still using all 95 gear except 1 essence piece at the moment. I expect about 1% more for each stat once fully geared for 100.
    Last edited by Leixy; Aug 16 2014 at 08:27 PM.
    LvL 100s: Beorning, Burglar, Captain, Champ, Guardian, Hunter, Lore-Master, Minstrel, Rune-Keeper
    LvL 85: Warden, Minstrel
    All my forum posts are my opinions and may not even be that. Also On Twitter: @leixicon

 

 

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