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  1. #1
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    Animation Delay Worse

    So we've all known for a while that CoS has a serious skill animation delay after casting the skill. A solution was discovered that using SoS immediately afterward would interrupt the animation and thereby allow us to continue fighting and/or healing without having to stand there and look dumb.

    Well, I don't know whether this was snuck in with the maintenance, but I just noticed that SoS now has a problem of it's own. After using SoS I am 100% incapable of casting any skill whatsoever until SoS' cooldown expires. In layman's terms, SoS is now enforcing a global cooldown.

    After so many requests to fix animation delays, this global cooldown on SoS has pretty much made SoS and CoS useless in the heat of battle. SoS is okay to prep with, get some small HoTs on the tank, etc., but it's no longer a feasible method of getting around CoS' animation delay. There is now little to no point in using either skill while already in combat. I am feeling more and more like a BC-spamming minstrel than I ever have before.

    Please fix this, devs!
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 105 MNS Fayah/100 LM Siennah/105 HNT Dinenol/100 RK Dhurik
    100 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/60 BUR Dhax/62 WDN Godoric
    R9 105 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval

  2. #2
    I have both an RK and a Minstrel, RK is main, recently leveled the minny, like last night recent, and will say that the skill lag and delay on the minstrel is much much worse than it is on the RK and it's bad on the RK. While playing the minny I am more focused on the lag and animation hangs than the game itself. You can't even enjoy the content its so bad. It's not just SoS and CoS, the ballads are brutal, it's everything.


    Attended by Coldaen

  3. #3
    Strange that I never noticed this issue. You do make sure to use a fast skill after an immediate skill? For both CoS and SoS are.
    Feailuve - Akabath
    [EN]Evernight

  4. #4
    I've found that hitting Cry of the Chorus immediately after Chord of Salvation will cut short the laggy animation.

    I know that there are reports of this workaround (or a similar workaround) causing bugs in which skills go on cooldown without actually firing. Some other experienced minstrels will probably be able to weigh in more on that. I'm usually safe if I go Chord of Salvation --> Cry of the Chorus --> Anthem and then go about my daily business.

    I don't have any experience with ballads being laggy. Call of the Second Age has an animation lag, but the skill is powerful enough that the lag doesn't bother me as much. Chord of Salvation's laggyness is the most frustrating, especially since the heal is quite small and it's one of the few instant heals we can use while kiting.
    Last edited by Rozalinde; Aug 07 2014 at 04:37 PM.
    Chief of the all-hobbits Landroval kinship, [url=http://concerninghobbits.shivtr.com/forum_threads/1477267] Concerning Hobbits.[/url]
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  5. #5
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    Try using raise the spirit right after sos. Since its a fast skill it should begin immedately.

    When i still played mini cos > sos > rts > BC was my go to burst healing rotation.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nimrinoth View Post
    Try using raise the spirit right after sos. Since its a fast skill it should begin immedately.

    When i still played mini cos > sos > rts > BC was my go to burst healing rotation.
    How long ago did you still play mini? Because these days with Bolster having a full fellowship-wide proc and TS being on a 45 second cooldown, the only burst healing rotation used anymore is TS/bolster/bolster/bolster....... So many things have changed, including the "fix" so that if you use instant skills too close to each other they go on cooldown without firing off.

    Chord really needs to have the animation looked at, it's too long.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    How long ago did you still play mini? Because these days with Bolster having a full fellowship-wide proc and TS being on a 45 second cooldown, the only burst healing rotation used anymore is TS/bolster/bolster/bolster....... So many things have changed, including the "fix" so that if you use instant skills too close to each other they go on cooldown without firing off.
    What hasnt changed is using a fast skill after an immediate skill will prevent any kind of skill lag and will let you resume healing without the pause. So i feel like my advice still stands.

    I'm quite glad i don't main my mini anymore, the state of healing seems so incredibly dull.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nimrinoth View Post
    What hasnt changed is using a fast skill after an immediate skill will prevent any kind of skill lag and will let you resume healing without the pause. So i feel like my advice still stands.

    I'm quite glad i don't main my mini anymore, the state of healing seems so incredibly dull.
    The very odd thing is that today SoS seems to be working okay again. But I swear it was not letting me cast ANYTHING until SoS's cooldown was up the day I made this thread. O.o Honest to goodness, but I'm sure it was acting up!

    But still... We really shouldn't have to use another skill just to break a previous skill's unreasonably long animation. :/

    I just wish these issues would be fixed once and for all.
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 105 MNS Fayah/100 LM Siennah/105 HNT Dinenol/100 RK Dhurik
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Nimrinoth View Post
    What hasnt changed is using a fast skill after an immediate skill will prevent any kind of skill lag and will let you resume healing without the pause. So i feel like my advice still stands.

    I'm quite glad i don't main my mini anymore, the state of healing seems so incredibly dull.
    I don't think you have it quite right. Fast Skills don't help anymore, you have to use an immediate skill followed by an immediate skill to counter act the long animations.

    I been sitting in DA testing, and like the OP, SoS is preventing me from using induction (even fast induction like raise the spirit) skills until the SoS cd is up.

    What I've been doing is SoS -> Raise the spirit. It doesn't mitigate the animation and i DO have to wait for the SoS cd.
    However, if I try SoS -> Cry the Chorus, the animation for SoS is cut.
    SoS -> Gift of the Hammerhand works as well. Since Gift of Hammerhand sucks as a bubble, I might use this to help the SoS cd/animation lag thing.

    I don't like the suggestion of Cry the Chorus, since I like to use Cry the Chorus after I coda to get my anthems back up as quickly as possible. Wasting a cry the chorus every time I SoS doesn't make sense to me.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Anwiga View Post
    I don't like the suggestion of Cry the Chorus, since I like to use Cry the Chorus after I coda to get my anthems back up as quickly as possible. Wasting a cry the chorus every time I SoS doesn't make sense to me.
    I agree that using Cry of the Chorus after every Soliloquy of Spirit wouldn't work. But I was actually suggesting that it be used to cut short Chord of Salvation's huge animation lag. Chord of Salvation being used much less frequently than SoS (at least in my experience) makes Cry of the Chorus nearly always freely available, especially if you have the maxed out cooldown reduction legacy on your LI.

    My only complaint is with Chord of Salvation. I haven't had the issue y'all are reporting with Soliloquy of Spirit yet. It sounds like a bummer.
    Chief of the all-hobbits Landroval kinship, [url=http://concerninghobbits.shivtr.com/forum_threads/1477267] Concerning Hobbits.[/url]
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  11. #11
    Now... I already said it once, I'll say it again: use a fast skill after your immediate skills. If you refuse to do this, stop complaining. It's how the game works.
    Feailuve - Akabath
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    Now... I already said it once, I'll say it again: use a fast skill after your immediate skills. If you refuse to do this, stop complaining. It's how the game works.
    I think you mean how the game is broken. And I say this because not only has CoS' animation been screwed up for a long while, but now SoS' cooldown is too, and the latter is more recent. Until recently SoS would never apply an almost global cooldown. Now, though, I have to wait for its cooldown to end before I can use just about any skill. I've found that Raise the Spirit works fine while SoS is on cooldown, but it's a BUG. It is broken and annoying and needs to be fixed. If we all just do what you say to do, it'll never get changed.
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 105 MNS Fayah/100 LM Siennah/105 HNT Dinenol/100 RK Dhurik
    100 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/60 BUR Dhax/62 WDN Godoric
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    I think you mean how the game is broken. And I say this because not only has CoS' animation been screwed up for a long while, but now SoS' cooldown is too, and the latter is more recent. Until recently SoS would never apply an almost global cooldown. Now, though, I have to wait for its cooldown to end before I can use just about any skill. I've found that Raise the Spirit works fine while SoS is on cooldown, but it's a BUG. It is broken and annoying and needs to be fixed. If we all just do what you say to do, it'll never get changed.
    I'm not sure what to say... Other classes have been dealing with this for ages. It's not a "bug", not everything that doesn't suit you is, and I very much doubt Yurbine will do something about it.
    Personally, I have no issue with SoS or CoS.
    Feailuve - Akabath
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    I'm not sure what to say... Other classes have been dealing with this for ages. It's not a "bug", not everything that doesn't suit you is, and I very much doubt Yurbine will do something about it.
    Personally, I have no issue with SoS or CoS.
    I'm sorry, but after a skill is cast and I'm left incapable of fighting because of an animation delay, then yes it is a bug. Unless you use another skill to break the animation of CoS, then it's a pretty worthless skill, especially when in red or yellow line. It's our only on-the-go heal of note (aside from Melody's coda) and by the time I can fight again after casting it, whatever healing it has done is pretty much gone.

    Just because you are peachy keen with it being the way it is doesn't mean that everyone else is and it doesn't mean that it should stay the way it is. And if other classes have this sort of animation delay or forced universal cooldown when there shouldn't be, then maybe those other classes should be fixed as well.
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 105 MNS Fayah/100 LM Siennah/105 HNT Dinenol/100 RK Dhurik
    100 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/60 BUR Dhax/62 WDN Godoric
    R9 105 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    I'm sorry, but after a skill is cast and I'm left incapable of fighting because of an animation delay, then yes it is a bug. Unless you use another skill to break the animation of CoS, then it's a pretty worthless skill, especially when in red or yellow line. It's our only on-the-go heal of note (aside from Melody's coda) and by the time I can fight again after casting it, whatever healing it has done is pretty much gone.

    Just because you are peachy keen with it being the way it is doesn't mean that everyone else is and it doesn't mean that it should stay the way it is. And if other classes have this sort of animation delay or forced universal cooldown when there shouldn't be, then maybe those other classes should be fixed as well.
    Just because you do not understand the combat system of lotro does not mean that is a bug. I would rather call it a bug, that you can interrupt animations.

    Lotro does not have a global cooldown on skills as other games have. Instead every skill in lotro has two times associated with it: The cast time (which can be 0) and the execution time (in which the annimation plays). Skills are balanced with both times in mind.

    Especially, AoS: It was always a heal for emergency that has no casttime, but instead a long animation after it to balance it. SoS is the same.. no cast time but a longer animation time for balancing.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorondir View Post
    Just because you do not understand the combat system of lotro does not mean that is a bug. I would rather call it a bug, that you can interrupt animations.

    Lotro does not have a global cooldown on skills as other games have. Instead every skill in lotro has two times associated with it: The cast time (which can be 0) and the execution time (in which the annimation plays). Skills are balanced with both times in mind.

    Especially, AoS: It was always a heal for emergency that has no casttime, but instead a long animation after it to balance it. SoS is the same.. no cast time but a longer animation time for balancing.
    I consider both to be a bug. And I do understand the combat system and what I understand the most clearly is that when I started playing my minstrel, I did not have these problems. Either they flat out did not exist (which seems the more likely of the two) or their effects were not noticeable. And when the mitigations changed and DPS minstrels suddenly started having a hard time surviving, the shortcomings of certain skills were made abundantly clear.

    SoS's cast time is short. It is cast and my character stands still doing nothing while the cooldown expires. There is no animation delay involved with SoS.

    And any healing done is rendered useless. By the time the animation delays or cooldown delays go away, any healing has already been beaten back down and often I've taken more damage than the skill healed me for in the first place. How is that anything but a bug in the combat system?
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 105 MNS Fayah/100 LM Siennah/105 HNT Dinenol/100 RK Dhurik
    100 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/60 BUR Dhax/62 WDN Godoric
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  17. #17
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    Red face

    Sorry to cut in from an RKs point of view (since we experience the same delay) The animation delay that exists between skills needs to be fixed. It should not be by "design" that my instant skills cause a two second skill delay before any other skill can be used if its not immediate. It screws up the entire rotation for healing and makes certain skills that cause the delay less desirable. Using an immediate skill to cut the animation for RK causes them to use a longish CD skill to just not have that skill lag. That can't be by design.

    I thought that the devs were looking into what is causing this as it is happening for many classes and at the time they weren't quite sure what was causing this animation delay.
    Amestoplease, Rk
    Ambusher, Warg

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    I consider both to be a bug. And I do understand the combat system and what I understand the most clearly is that when I started playing my minstrel, I did not have these problems. Either they flat out did not exist (which seems the more likely of the two) or their effects were not noticeable. And when the mitigations changed and DPS minstrels suddenly started having a hard time surviving, the shortcomings of certain skills were made abundantly clear.
    When you can't be playing since the start or else you would remember the root you got after casting AoS .. they removed the root and did not touch the animation time.

    But on the other side .. how do you think the game should be balanced without any animation times of skills?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ames View Post
    Sorry to cut in from an RKs point of view (since we experience the same delay) The animation delay that exists between skills needs to be fixed. It should not be by "design" that my instant skills cause a two second skill delay before any other skill can be used if its not immediate. It screws up the entire rotation for healing and makes certain skills that cause the delay less desirable. Using an immediate skill to cut the animation for RK causes them to use a longish CD skill to just not have that skill lag. That can't be by design.

    I thought that the devs were looking into what is causing this as it is happening for many classes and at the time they weren't quite sure what was causing this animation delay.
    The other problem I've found on my minstrel is these delays aren't consistent. Sometimes it delays, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes SoS cuts the animation for Chord, sometimes it doesn't. I've tried to find a common theme in the differences and I can't. All I can say is the whole thing is a cluster and very buggy.

    It's not my computer - I have an SSD, a ton of ram, new vid card, the works. I also have the situation where sometimes my cries make noise, sometimes they don't. It's rather disconcerting to hit a big cry, see your character go through the animation and.... no sound come out.

    As for the "old days" and old skill animations/roots or whatever, that has nothing to do with anything anymore. We have to work with the skills we have now. I remember when minstrels didn't have war speech too - but that doesn't make it any better. The game changes, we move on, and we try and work with and improve what we have. Right now I think the animation to Chord needs to shorten or disappear. It's irritating and causes issues, especially during solo play.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    The other problem I've found on my minstrel is these delays aren't consistent. Sometimes it delays, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes SoS cuts the animation for Chord, sometimes it doesn't. I've tried to find a common theme in the differences and I can't. All I can say is the whole thing is a cluster and very buggy.

    It's not my computer - I have an SSD, a ton of ram, new vid card, the works. I also have the situation where sometimes my cries make noise, sometimes they don't. It's rather disconcerting to hit a big cry, see your character go through the animation and.... no sound come out.

    As for the "old days" and old skill animations/roots or whatever, that has nothing to do with anything anymore. We have to work with the skills we have now. I remember when minstrels didn't have war speech too - but that doesn't make it any better. The game changes, we move on, and we try and work with and improve what we have. Right now I think the animation to Chord needs to shorten or disappear. It's irritating and causes issues, especially during solo play.
    That's frustrating that sometimes it happens sometimes it doesn't. At least with rk skills I know that if I use certain ones there is a solid two seconds before my next one goes off. Every single time. It's so consistent and people have complained about it so much mostly prevalent in healing and fire that I'm surprised it hasn't been fixed.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorondir View Post
    When you can't be playing since the start or else you would remember the root you got after casting AoS .. they removed the root and did not touch the animation time.

    But on the other side .. how do you think the game should be balanced without any animation times of skills?
    The only AoS I know of is an RK skill, and I don't even know off the top of my head what it stands for.

    And, FYI, I never said I had been playing from the start. Look at my join date. Does it look like I've been playing since day 1? I said since I started playing my minstrel.

    As for balancing skills against what they do, leaving broken hang-ups in is not the solution. Skills that need that kind of balancing are skills with inductions or super long cooldowns. Problems that skills like SoS, CoS, and CotSA are having are just signs of how broken it is. What's the use of using a fast or immediate skill if it's got such a delay afterward?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    The other problem I've found on my minstrel is these delays aren't consistent. Sometimes it delays, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes SoS cuts the animation for Chord, sometimes it doesn't. I've tried to find a common theme in the differences and I can't. All I can say is the whole thing is a cluster and very buggy.
    That is another thing, Beanie. When I started this thread I noticed the problem with SoS, and then it seemed to be gone, and then back again. Some days the problem seems worse and others it doesn't seem to be there at all for certain skills. But it does seem to be getting progressively worse as more time goes by. I'm starting to have problems with skills that never gave me any fuss.
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
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    100 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/60 BUR Dhax/62 WDN Godoric
    R9 105 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval

  22. #22
    Can someone explain to me the SoS issue in detail, so I can try to replicate it? I've never had an issue with SoS, but then I've never tried to use it to fix animation delays (I always rely on Cry of the Chorus).

    Does the issue happen with the rotation: Chord of Salvation --> Soliloquy of Spirit --> ?

    I want to understand the problem so I can A) bug it, and B) keep it from happening to me.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rozalinde View Post
    Can someone explain to me the SoS issue in detail, so I can try to replicate it? I've never had an issue with SoS, but then I've never tried to use it to fix animation delays (I always rely on Cry of the Chorus).

    Does the issue happen with the rotation: Chord of Salvation --> Soliloquy of Spirit --> ?

    I want to understand the problem so I can A) bug it, and B) keep it from happening to me.
    The problem with SoS is actually independent. You don't have to cast anything before it. What happens is when you try to cast something after it. Basically just cast SoS and then try to use any other skill that is NOT a fast or immediate skill. For example:

    Situation A: SoS followed by any fast/immediate skill (CoS, RtS, etc). The fast/immediate skill fires normally.
    Situation C: SoS followed by any non fast/immediate skill (BC, SotH, etc). The skill WILL NOT FIRE until after SoS's cooldown (1.5s) is over.

    So you will only experience this problem if you use a skill that is not fast/immediate after using SoS.

    It used to be that we use SoS to break the animation delay of CoS. Except now we have to use some other skill (RtS I suppose) to break SoS's near-global cooldown. So if your rotation used to be CoS>SoS>some non-fast/immediate skill... you will now have SoS's "global cooldown" on you unless you use a skill like RtS to interrupt that.

    In short, we are now faced with three options:

    A) Stop using skills like CoS and SoS entirely.
    B) Use the skills you need and then just wait to keep fighting.
    C) Add skills into your rotation that you normally wouldn't be using at that given time, solely to interrupt the animation delays and global cooldowns.

    *unhappyface*
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 105 MNS Fayah/100 LM Siennah/105 HNT Dinenol/100 RK Dhurik
    100 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/60 BUR Dhax/62 WDN Godoric
    R9 105 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    The only AoS I know of is an RK skill, and I don't even know off the top of my head what it stands for.
    I meant CoS .. did mess it up with its german name

    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    As for balancing skills against what they do, leaving broken hang-ups in is not the solution. Skills that need that kind of balancing are skills with inductions or super long cooldowns. Problems that skills like SoS, CoS, and CotSA are having are just signs of how broken it is. What's the use of using a fast or immediate skill if it's got such a delay afterward?
    The use for CoS is as an emergency heal as you get the heal at the start of the animation and not after it (including cast time) as for all other heals. And as CoS cannot have an induction (that would remove its emergency aspect) all of its execution time needs to be packed into the annimation. And the current CoS is still faster than casting a BC.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorondir View Post
    I meant CoS .. did mess it up with its german name
    Ah that explains it. I can't even figure out what AoS for RKs stands for; saw it on the forum somewhere, so I know it exists but I haven't been able to tell what it actually is. Maybe that's a translation thing too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorondir View Post
    The use for CoS is as an emergency heal as you get the heal at the start of the animation and not after it (including cast time) as for all other heals. And as CoS cannot have an induction (that would remove its emergency aspect) all of its execution time needs to be packed into the annimation. And the current CoS is still faster than casting a BC.
    CoS can be broken by SoS (which now has to be broken by something else) in healing mode. But the big problem for CoS is that it's heal is incredibly puny compared to how much damage I take these days (due mostly to the mits change, tho also due to mobs being stronger than previously). By the time I can use another skill when I'm in my DPS mode, any healing done by CoS has already been beaten back down by the mobs (and that is with me kiting). At level cap, on average, CoS does 2k healing (and for me it seldom crits when I'm in my DPS mode). A single mob at lvl cap can do that much damage with one strike. Put several mobs on me and they are doing a heck of a lot more DPS than CoS is healing me for. So not only do I get a small heal that is easily beaten back down, but I also can't resume my normal DPS for several moments until the animation delay goes away. That puts me even more at risk.
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 105 MNS Fayah/100 LM Siennah/105 HNT Dinenol/100 RK Dhurik
    100 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/60 BUR Dhax/62 WDN Godoric
    R9 105 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval

 

 
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