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  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by CSM_River View Post
    Bottom line, multi-boxing is allowed. What we don’t like are bots; we don’t like players who set up third party programs to run a character through cycles of fighting in an effort to level, or gain loot. But multi-boxing is a player who will control all characters.
    http://isboxer.com/
    There you have it, a third party program where every single push of a button is multiplied 2-12+ times to multiply the effect.

    /signed
    The end is near, the ring will melt, but not if I can help it!

  2. #52
    /signed

    It spoils play for BOTH sides and stops the fight.
    The one ... the only ... Meow.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSM_River View Post
    Greetings, all!

    Bottom line, multi-boxing is allowed. What we don’t like are bots; we don’t like players who set up third party programs to run a character through cycles of fighting in an effort to level, or gain loot. But multi-boxing is a player who will control all characters.

    Someone also mentioned Fight-clubbing. If people want to 1v1 we will allow it, as long as they aren’t just feeding rep to each other.

    -River
    1. Lets face facts you allow multi-boxing because it brings in CASH PERIOD and if it didnt it would be another story. Secondly you have a policy about griefing players in game well please explain to me HOW a boxer camping the rez, rez point or a path to kill a solo individual that really has zero chance to live isnt griefing according to your policy???????????

    2. you said you dont like third party programs to run through a character in a effort to level or gain loot? well arent boxers doing the same thing. gain loot and gaining rank?

    3. You say 3 party software isnt allowed but basically your system in allowing one toon to control all those other toon and to say someone(9 boxer) is using 9 key boards at one time id flat out lol at it.


    We are paying customer too so whats more important to turbine the many(us) or the few(boxers)
    A tree is a tree, a Rock is a rock and a Troll is Elmo

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Ogmu View Post
    Disable /follow in the moors. Let's see which of these talented multiboxers is actually controlling all of their toons individually.
    This. Exactly.
    Phrasing! Doesn't anybody do phrasing anymore?

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nouri View Post
    I think the message from customers to customer support is pretty clear as far as what the customer community thinks about boxers. Why not ask your Players Council members what they think of boxers and whether it should be allowed? I bet I know what they'll tell you.
    This. Right now, MBing is allowed in the rules. Ranting about it on the forums doesn't change that. But keep in mind, once upon a time "Rank Farming" was allowed, too. This is an issue that should be taken to the council. That's where it will get discussed and hopefully dealt with from there. Just remember that this isn't something that's going to change quickly. It will take some time. The rank farming discussions were pretty heated, and the only reason we resolved that as quickly as we did was because alot of the discussion had already happened before the council formed.

    FOr the record, I agree that MBing in the moors is different than landscape. I've seen the "Freaver Train" on the move (also a spider train once. It was like something out of a nightmare). It affect the moors mostly negatively. The freeps generally bail at that point which makes the moors PvE. Fun for everyone, yes??

    Talk to the council, send them PMs. Talk to them in game, if you can. Let them know. Heck, start a thread in the Suggestion forum. THat's how to get the rule changed.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Nouri View Post
    Why not ask your Players Council members what they think of boxers and whether it should be allowed?
    Don't just ask if it should be allowed. It specifically needs to be about the Moors. If "Should multiboxing be allowed?" is asked, the answer will be yes.

    It needs to be asked if it should be allowed in the Moors, and any Council members who don't PVP should sit the vote out instead of trying to give input into something they don't even participate in.
    [CENTER]Turbine - Tracing Yeti Folk[/CENTER]

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Ogmu View Post
    Don't just ask if it should be allowed. It specifically needs to be about the Moors. If "Should multiboxing be allowed?" is asked, the answer will be yes.

    It needs to be asked if it should be allowed in the Moors, and any Council members who don't PVP should sit the vote out instead of trying to give input into something they don't even participate in.
    Good point. I have a friend who is a Council member. I'll PM her and ask her if she can raise this issue (boxing in the Moors) at some point in the future. If enough people can convince Council members to raise this issue, then maybe we'll get something done about this.

    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK
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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogmu View Post
    Don't just ask if it should be allowed. It specifically needs to be about the Moors. If "Should multiboxing be allowed?" is asked, the answer will be yes.

    It needs to be asked if it should be allowed in the Moors, and any Council members who don't PVP should sit the vote out instead of trying to give input into something they don't even participate in.
    Its not about a vote. That's not how it works. How it works is that the council will discuss it, then they will get some turbine folks into it. Every council member will hopefully get into it. Even the ones who don't PvMP. Everyone's input is important.

  9. #59
    Multi-boxing should be allowed but it should be indicated that only one account can be "controlled" by the player at a time and not simultaneously. Multi-boxers will probably be upset but it's better than making a greater majority of players upset with these pvp shenanigans. Anything automated and functional in-game that doesn't require player input, like follow, is of course an exception.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Palentian View Post
    Its not about a vote. That's not how it works. How it works is that the council will discuss it, then they will get some turbine folks into it. Every council member will hopefully get into it. Even the ones who don't PvMP. Everyone's input is important.
    This isn't a whole lot different than the rank farming controversy. In that Turbine would come on here and bluntly say that it was allowed and they weren't going to change it. But the groundswell against it was enough, and the logic was sound enough, that Turbine couldn't ignore it. Use the same tactics now against multi boxing. It doesn't make sense that this is allowed, and Turbine are being adamant about it. But be loud enough, push the right buttons, and I believe this will be changed too. But you have to use reason.

    1) It's against the CoC - third party software.
    2) It promotes poor gameplay
    3) We're not against it in PVE
    4) If you can't use 3rd party programs to level, why can you use it to rank, when a rank is basically a level?
    5) It's not about the money. Turbine bans players that pay subs or bought f2p toons for bad behavior all the time. If they're worried about protecting gameplay experience in one sense, why not in another?
    6) If Turbine released an update that granted a player 6x the DPS of another player, they would correct this issue. So why are they allowing it to continue just because the player is doing it another way? They wouldn't put an item in the store that granted a player 6x the dps of another player either, yet that's essentially exactly what multi boxing does.
    Phrasing! Doesn't anybody do phrasing anymore?

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    This isn't a whole lot different than the rank farming controversy. In that Turbine would come on here and bluntly say that it was allowed and they weren't going to change it. But the groundswell against it was enough, and the logic was sound enough, that Turbine couldn't ignore it. Use the same tactics now against multi boxing. It doesn't make sense that this is allowed, and Turbine are being adamant about it. But be loud enough, push the right buttons, and I believe this will be changed too. But you have to use reason.

    1) It's against the CoC - third party software.
    2) It promotes poor gameplay
    3) We're not against it in PVE
    4) If you can't use 3rd party programs to level, why can you use it to rank, when a rank is basically a level?
    5) It's not about the money. Turbine bans players that pay subs or bought f2p toons for bad behavior all the time. If they're worried about protecting gameplay experience in one sense, why not in another?
    6) If Turbine released an update that granted a player 6x the DPS of another player, they would correct this issue. So why are they allowing it to continue just because the player is doing it another way? They wouldn't put an item in the store that granted a player 6x the dps of another player either, yet that's essentially exactly what multi boxing does.
    Actually, its alot different than rank farming. Mostly because more people MB than Farm. Again, I agree with your opinion. But to play devil's advocate a bit.........

    1) My wife and I play Lotro together. So do my son and daughter. How does Turbine know that I'm not a MBer? We are all coming from the same IP address.

    2) How do you identify that someone is using a 3rd party program? They may just be really good with their fingers. (Keep in mind, MBing isn't necessarily multiple puters. They could be running 6 clients from the same puter and have it all in windows.)

    Those are the two big logistical problems that were talked about on the council last year. Rank farming is much easier to identify, for one. Personally, I think Turbine should get rid of macros altogether. And the Lua thing. But I recognize I'm in a minority on that one.

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Palentian View Post
    Actually, its alot different than rank farming.
    No, what I said is that it's similar in it's another thing Turbine said adamantly it was ok (speaking to River's "bottom line") until it wasn't. And the reason it wasn't was because you couldn't fight the logic against outlawing it. Same here.


    Mostly because more people MB than Farm. Again, I agree with your opinion. But to play devil's advocate a bit.........

    1) My wife and I play Lotro together. So do my son and daughter. How does Turbine know that I'm not a MBer? We are all coming from the same IP address.

    2) How do you identify that someone is using a 3rd party program? They may just be really good with their fingers. (Keep in mind, MBing isn't necessarily multiple puters. They could be running 6 clients from the same puter and have it all in windows.)

    Those are the two big logistical problems that were talked about on the council last year. Rank farming is much easier to identify, for one. Personally, I think Turbine should get rid of macros altogether. And the Lua thing. But I recognize I'm in a minority on that one.
    Just turn off /follow in the ettenmoors and you skip all the issues. If you just make it so it can't work, there's nothing to investigate.
    Phrasing! Doesn't anybody do phrasing anymore?

  13. #63
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    /Signed.

    never boxed,but it does seem they could just disable the /follow easy enough.

  14. #64
    I'm not sure that turning off /follow in the Moors would work as far as stopping boxing. If boxers can control skill execution on six toons using third-party software, couldn't they do the same with movement?

    I just find it mind-blowing that Turbine condones this type of game play in the Moors!

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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palentian View Post
    Actually, its alot different than rank farming. Mostly because more people MB than Farm. Again, I agree with your opinion. But to play devil's advocate a bit.........

    1) My wife and I play Lotro together. So do my son and daughter. How does Turbine know that I'm not a MBer? We are all coming from the same IP address.

    2) How do you identify that someone is using a 3rd party program? They may just be really good with their fingers. (Keep in mind, MBing isn't necessarily multiple puters. They could be running 6 clients from the same puter and have it all in windows.)

    Those are the two big logistical problems that were talked about on the council last year. Rank farming is much easier to identify, for one. Personally, I think Turbine should get rid of macros altogether. And the Lua thing. But I recognize I'm in a minority on that one.
    I'm no pro on multi boxing but I'm pretty sure that if you have multiple clients open you have to tab through those clients in order to use separate skills individually. Some sort of software would be required to link them all together. Which is where you bring in the third party software mentioned earlier in this thread. If using multiple computers, there is something you can use to link them all together that allows one button to activate a command on 6 computers. I forget what it's called, the first boxer that was on Meneldor told me about that one, there is a way.

    If someone was activating a command using 6 separate commands, you would not have instant casting on all toons at once the way you see it out in the moors. It would be much less effective and clunky.



    As people have said, disable follow in the ettenmoors. Or don't allow multiple instances of the game to run on one computer again. There wouldn't be nearly as many people doing it if it required to have multiple computers. All of this is moot anyways, Turbine isn't going to do a thing about multi boxing as they've stated in this very thread. Its all about the $$$. Multi boxers are potential money spent on the game and in the store.
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  16. #66
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    ./signed

    Never understood why Turbine allows boxing aside from the increased revenue. Completely ridiculous and needs to be removed.
    Arkenstone: Blulum (r12 Reaver), Tumblytwo-1 (r10 Champion), Gnaral (r7 Warg) - Nefarious

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  17. #67

    Please disable /follow or BAN BOXING in the Moors

    Agreed, unsportsmanlike. Please ban boxing or disable the /follow command for the Moors.

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Palentian View Post
    They may just be really good with their fingers. (Keep in mind, MBing isn't necessarily multiple puters. They could be running 6 clients from the same puter and have it all in windows.)
    Everytime I see that comment or a similar one, I am 100% certain I am either listening to someone who does not understand the issue, does not understand what is happening, and has yet to see it in person, or is part of the problem itself and is multiboxing in the Moors and does not want it to stop.
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  19. #69
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    I have a few questions I'm hoping someone could answer for me. And before I ask them, I'll start with a few basics. While I have PvMped for a few years (so far only on Riddermark, which currently is PvMP-dead, and Landroval), I have never personally witnessed this kind of phenomenon. That said, I have watched the videos. I personally do not multi-box. Firstly, my computer has a hard time with 1 client some of the time. Trying 2 would be pointless. And even then I'm not sure how keen I'd be on setting up extra accounts.

    And I'd like to say that I am against /follow being disabled. Disabling legitimate parts of the game because of griefers seriously sucks. This is the same reason we can't turn in quests in combat anymore. Because some low-life cheaters decided to use festival quests to instaport them out of the Moors, cheating the creeps out of their infamy. I seriously do not like that move. And now that festivals are rewarding maps (which can't be used in the Moors anyway), I'm further annoyed that this feature still exists in game. It's really annoying to be unable to turn in a quest because you are (sometimes stuck) in combat. -.- Likewise, I do not think a legitimate part of the game (/follow) should be disabled because of griefers. In the Moors it is common practice among the people I fraid with to put themselves on /follow to the leader to ensure that they stay tight on him/her, because players who lag behind get zerged by wargs and often end up dead. Putting oneself on /follow to the leader helps you keep up. I prefer to run under my own steam, but others prefer to use /follow. They are still there, though, and they are independently running their own machines and do their own fighting once a battle commences.

    Now to the questions I had.

    Turbine clearly says third party software is against the rules. How do they identify when third party software is being used?

    If multiboxers in the Moors aren't using third party software, then it seems like either A: they genuinely are controlling all clients on their own, or B: the extras are just on follow and not taking an active role in the fight. It seems like in the latter case multiboxers could just park the extras some place safe. So long as they are in the fellowship and within the Moors, they'll still get credit. The only point in dragging them along is to be bantha fodder -- to hopefully get targeted first by the other side, giving the "real" player a chance to escape. So, for the question, if they aren't using third party software, how could either A or B be a bad thing? Everything I've seen in the videos seems to indicate that all the extras are taking an active role in combat*. If the player is not controlling them all him/herself, isn't third party software the only alternative?

    So ultimately it seems to come down to third party software. If they are using it, they are breaking the rules. If they aren't using it, then what is unfair about what they are doing? It seems like the anger towards multiboxers is being misdirected and should instead be targeted at those who are using third party software.

    Lastly, if third party software is not being used, how is it any different than in PvE? If third party software isn't being used, then the player is controlling all of them manually, be it PvE or PvMP. That seems fair to me. If someone is that talented in multitasking, then more power to them. If the extras are just on /follow and not fighting (not seen any evidence of this so far), then it's basically like a player carrying around training dummies. The extras would just stand there and get killed because the player is too busy on the main character.

    *=The exception would be where creeps and/or freeps (perhaps all creeps, considering the costs involved with getting a bunch of freeps into the Moors) are just lined up into rows and the same person(s) just mow them right down, and then drag them back. But that's rank farming and already not allowed. It's rank farming via multiboxing. The multiboxing isn't against the rules. The rank farming part is.
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  20. #70
    lawl the boxer killded me at gv help me turbine help me!!!! fail freeps need to learn their classes and learn to FOCUS.... Boxer for life !!!!! anyone wanna learn to box pst to me and ill teach ya the ways of the dark side... this is pvp not a card game it isn't a sport its WAR!!! im winning so keep up the tears maby you will get you way.... maby you wont...im FOR boxing and supporting turbine!!!! game just needs more boxers!!!
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042080000001f2e51/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogmu View Post
    Everytime I see that comment or a similar one, I am 100% certain I am either listening to someone who does not understand the issue, does not understand what is happening, and has yet to see it in person, or is part of the problem itself and is multiboxing in the Moors and does not want it to stop.
    Oh, I truly do understand the issue. And no, I don't MB. Anyone who's creeped on Ridder can attest that I can barely run ONE toon in a fight. LOL

    Anyway, my previous post was actually part of a conversation we had last year on the council. A few members claimed they were good enough to handle 6 creeps on 6 accounts manually. I read it that the main problem with MBing (from Turbine's perspective) was how to distinguish someone MBing vs. a family all playing at the same time. You can't really make a rule unless you know you can enforce it fairly. It came down to a rather simple logistical problem. If you all can come up with a way to distinguish, that would be great. We were rather stumped (and we had some pretty tech savvy guys and gals last year). I think that's why the discussion got dropped.

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Palentian View Post
    A few members claimed they were good enough to handle 6 creeps on 6 accounts manually.
    Send them to Brandywine. Have the DBA create them six temporary toons. R10, R12...give 'em R15 if that's what they think they'll need to survive.

    Now disable /follow.

    As an extra bonus level, don't make all the same class. Make 3 or 4 classes and mix the group up.

    Let's see how good these extremely skilled council members are.
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  23. #73
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    /signed

    It'll never happen, and Turbine Forum Rules specifically state the following:

    "11. Polls and Petitions.

    While we consider this spam, we felt we should explain why. First, several pages of /signed and /unsigned doesn’t really offer us much in the way of actionable feedback. Second, they usually turn into something unpleasant. Instead we recommend a well-considered suggestion posted in the appropriate area that would allow for meaningful contributions and opinions to be shared by all members of the community."

    Still, from me.... /signed signed signed signed signed!!!! Spider boxer on Brandywine is a pain in the rear-end (although he can't 6v1 my warden as of U14 lol!), he dramatically adds to the already huge lag issues in the game and does ~7000 burst DPS (10-20 seconds) on whatever he hits, he doesn't ever CC or use his debuffs, or anything other than his 3 basic dps skills + burrow, which whilst fortunate he's too bad to know how these work, he really doesn't need to most of the time. If he starts to lose he just runs away with SIX web pools in a row and that's it, you'll never catch him.
    Leader of Hysteria

  24. #74

    /signed

    As a paying Turbine customer, I am disappointed that Turbine has allowed this manipulation of the game to persist. The outcry against boxing is significant enough that it should be addressed. If Turbine continues to allow it, then my only recourse will be to end by subscription until things change and hope that others follow suit.

  25. #75
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    /signed with the disable follow but that is to much work for a company like Turbine to pull off. They don't care for the game so neither should we, pay what you must to play and give them nothing else. They cannot even run there game smoothly never mind fix multiboxers etc..

    Look how long it took for them to ban clubbing and now people who club get a 14day ban and keep their rank, multiboxing in PvMP is not changing any time soon.

    The player council will be useless in regards to providing feedback as turbine can only understand the language of $$.
    Captain-General Othlon // Master-at-Arms Mektar // Leader of |Nexus| - http://nexuskinship.shivtr.com/

 

 
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