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  1. #1
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    Instances T2 difficulty at level 100

    I'd like to hear other players impressions concerning the difficulty of T2 instances at level 100.
    Well, they really were too easy at level 95, but my impression is that - at level 100 at least - they are overbalanced at the mob side.
    I've been playing Lotro instances and several raids since Mirkwood times.
    In Stoneheight lvl 100 T2, our group consisting of my Guardian 100 (mostly lvl 95 gear and lvl 95 first age legendary items), a burglar 100 and minstrel 100 were unable to defeat Bubosh-Grat (770 k morale).
    Am I missing something or do the new gear and jewelry make such a difference?
    I'd welcome if you shared your experiences concerning the T2 difficulty topic.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhunar View Post
    I'd like to hear other players impressions concerning the difficulty of T2 instances at level 100.
    Well, they really were too easy at level 95, but my impression is that - at level 100 at least - they are overbalanced at the mob side.
    I've been playing Lotro instances and several raids since Mirkwood times.
    My level 100 Guardian (mostly lvl 95 gear and lvl 95 first age legendary items) was unable to defeat Bubosh-Grat (770 k morale) with a lvl 100 burglar and minstrel completing the group.
    Am I missing something or do the new gear and jewelry make such a difference?
    I'd welcome if you shared your experiences concerning the T2 difficulty topic.
    So far from what I've seen they're just fine.

    You can't just expect to go into a T2/T2C instance and faceroll it down after a 5 level update where you're not completely geared up with level 100 gear.

    I personally have completed Stoneheight T2C with a Warden/Minstrel/Hunter setup. If I remember correctly the Minstrel was underleveled (97-98ish). We all were pretty much using level 95 gear, level 95 jewelery, level 95 LIs (Warden might have had a few level 100 Derpy Battle Jewelery pieces).

    It was absolutely refreshing to have a challenge to the instance again. I don't think anyone died but there were some near misses at the end fight. I think they're just about right difficulty wise. Now they just need to get the rewards sorted out and everything will be better.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhunar View Post
    In Stoneheight lvl 100 T2, my level 100 Guardian (mostly lvl 95 gear and lvl 95 first age legendary items) was unable to defeat Bubosh-Grat (770 k morale) with a lvl 100 burglar and minstrel completing the group.
    What do you mean by "unable to defeat Bubosh-Grat?" I assume (hope) you mean the last boss encounter with both Dale and Bubba?

    Unless the mini had fallen asleep at the keyboard, there's no reason that group make up could not complete the instance (lvl 100) on T2 equipped w/lvl 95 gear.
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  4. #4
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    We attempted Bells of Dale T2C. Our group make-up was Guard, Rune Keeper, Champion, Lore Master, Minstrel, and Burg. All level 100, using at minimum 95 gear. The instance was a lot more difficult than before U14. While we did wipe a couple of times, we did get to the final boss where we had to call it quits due to time issues. We had major issues with the boss' ranged attack and fire/frost auras. I am not sure if we would have had these issues if we were all geared out in level 100 armor, jewelry, weapons, etc. All I can say is that we DID have an issue. Whether gear alone will fix the issues, only time will tell.
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  5. #5
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    Stoneheight challenge is back to normal toughness. Was able to be done undergeared. Ditto NCF. Wargpens not so much. Lost Temple is fun again but we didn't have time to finish. Midlevel though seems out of wack, 75 Pits of Isengard first trash over leveled well geared experienced players couldn't get past.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnycrest View Post
    What do you mean by "unable to defeat Bubosh-Grat?" I assume (hope) you mean the last boss encounter with both Dale and Bubba?

    Unless the mini had fallen asleep at the keyboard, there's no reason that group make up could not complete the instance (lvl 100) on T2 equipped w/lvl 95 gear.
    Not sure why you referenced the mini as the cause, but for what it's worth, I have been one shotted by Bubba just for looking at him on my minstrel - man many times. Once the minstrel goes down, it's pretty darn hard for the others to complete. I have seen this instance fail tons of times, and for many reasons. The one that pops up most often is failure because of a Chank on board. You know the type, run in, head down, grab agro, die, then shout at the healer "where the hell are my heals"? Never mind that while they had their head down in bull at a gate mode they didn't notice the minstrel had been silenced long before they even decided to charge.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhunar View Post
    I'd like to hear other players impressions concerning the difficulty of T2 instances at level 100.
    Well, they really were too easy at level 95, but my impression is that - at level 100 at least - they are overbalanced at the mob side.
    I've been playing Lotro instances and several raids since Mirkwood times.
    In Stoneheight lvl 100 T2, our group consisting of my Guardian 100 (mostly lvl 95 gear and lvl 95 first age legendary items), a burglar 100 and minstrel 100 were unable to defeat Bubosh-Grat (770 k morale).
    Am I missing something or do the new gear and jewelry make such a difference?
    I'd welcome if you shared your experiences concerning the T2 difficulty topic.
    I think some of them are, and some of them aren't. Level also makes a difference, and mid range levels have it really tough at the moment. I did ToO t1 last night, and although we got it done, it took forever, and was actually harder on T1 than it used to be on T2. While the increase in difficulty is for most part welcome, I do think they overdid it in many cases. Not all players found things easy before, and they probably find things so difficult now they probably won't even try. It could result in less people using the raid/instance system, which would be a shame. Of course the higher difficulty may make more players who like difficulty use it, but I fear, only until they get bored again.
    Apes are superior to man in this . . . . When a monkey looks in a mirror, he sees a monkey

  8. #8
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    The increase in difficulty of instances and the game as a whole is the reason that I have resubbed and a number of my old kin mates are coming back to the game. These changes are welcome and may even usher in a revival of interest in LOTRO.

    People need to adjust from the era of afk instancing where you might die once a year to content that presents some degree of challenge. Please don't drag this game back to where it was 6 months ago.

  9. #9
    I've done Warg-pen with a mini and a hunter in kins, (i'm a guard), and it's really fun. Challenge of course, I can't count how many time I die. I had an absence for like 8 months and came back just 2 weeks before U14 so my gear is "meh" and focus on dps to level and farm stuff for my main burg rather than tank so it's really tricky. But really, it's been a long time since I had such fun doing instance like that. Screw all the Spamborg, this is what I want for group content. I mean I don't care how easy solo contents are, but group instance should be like this. You need to understand your classes. The Feast of Drakes daily instance is good too. It can work with many classes set up, but you have to think a bit to plan a good strat for each combo.

    Tarlang's Crown in the other hand, is "meh"... All you need is a big raid, as big as you can find, and roll thru it, killing everything in sight.

    No new IC soon? Ok, we have many old instances that I think at least 50% people who playing now have never been in. They only need to change the loot a bit, give players more motivation to run those harder instances. Like more marks/medalions, higher rate for good stuffs like Universal Sovent, Major/greater essences, Star-lit Crystals... Turbine really need to cut the loot table of GB level 100 to give old bone Samborg a break. Solo people who want good stuff? Well buy it. It's not like money is hard to find ingame these days.

  10. #10
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    I have yet to see a single successful run of a level 100 t2 Challenge in any instance. I raid daily, with all kinds of groups from the inexperienced to hard core raiders.

    But, hey, I am sure there have been a couple of groups that were successful, somewhere.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravynne View Post
    We attempted Bells of Dale T2C. Our group make-up was Guard, Rune Keeper, Champion, Lore Master, Minstrel, and Burg. All level 100, using at minimum 95 gear. The instance was a lot more difficult than before U14. While we did wipe a couple of times, we did get to the final boss where we had to call it quits due to time issues. We had major issues with the boss' ranged attack and fire/frost auras. I am not sure if we would have had these issues if we were all geared out in level 100 armor, jewelry, weapons, etc. All I can say is that we DID have an issue. Whether gear alone will fix the issues, only time will tell.
    We've done the same instance T2C with a group, about half upgraded maybe, last week. Me tanking on cappy (2 essence armour items then) and a champion, another cappy, hunter and I believe rune-keeper and warden or second hunter. We didn't experience any problems, no deaths I believe, but it was a lot of more fun than before.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Giseldah View Post
    We've done the same instance T2C with a group, about half upgraded maybe, last week. Me tanking on cappy (2 essence armour items then) and a champion, another cappy, hunter and I believe rune-keeper and warden or second hunter. We didn't experience any problems, no deaths I believe, but it was a lot of more fun than before.
    Some T2 instances, particularly those with a lot of time-critical elements or tactical damage, seem very broken. Others are fine. I've done IP and STH T2 HM without issues, Warg-Pens was close but doable, but Great Goblin and Bells of Dale are both insane, and I don't want to even think about Webs of the Scuttledells or Roots of Fangorn.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Aedfrith View Post
    Great Goblin and Bells of Dale are both insane
    But they have already been done by several people, even with 95 gear.
    T2C are easier than in U9... So too easy when most of people will be full geared with essences
    Last edited by Castorix; Jul 31 2014 at 05:19 AM.

  14. #14
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    For OP, here are a few hints to overcome the fight with Bubosh-Grat.
    1) He is attacking mostly by frontal AOE so light armors and dps should always be in his back
    2) It will get some corruptions that will stack during the fight that will buff his damage (10% to 40% if I'm correct)... Removing those corruptions will make him have a "more focused battle approach" (sorry but my english may not be perfect) which is an increase in critical rating... You have to be cautious about when to remove those corruptions
    3) During the fight he will also 2 or 3 times bubble himself (champion's rage), you MUST damage and pop out this bubble otherwise he will perform a very powerful total area attack resulting in an instant death for players (my champ was hit for 38k damage!!)

    The first boss fight can be a bit tricky as the 2 goblins adds seems to have random attacks ... Make your group quickly defeat them and it will be much easier (the boss is buffed when the 2 adds are still alive).
    The final fight with both Bubosh-Grat and Dale is much easier, don't forget to interrupt them and remove corruptions if needed, it should be ok.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Not sure why you referenced the mini as the cause, but for what it's worth, I have been one shotted by Bubba just for looking at him on my minstrel - man many times. Once the minstrel goes down, it's pretty darn hard for the others to complete. I have seen this instance fail tons of times, and for many reasons. The one that pops up most often is failure because of a Chank on board. You know the type, run in, head down, grab agro, die, then shout at the healer "where the hell are my heals"? Never mind that while they had their head down in bull at a gate mode they didn't notice the minstrel had been silenced long before they even decided to charge.
    I referenced the mini because their healing is so faceroll over-the-top with numerous heals that can bring a group or an individual fellow back from the brink of death to full health with a keystroke. And I appreciate the PUG-like scenario you laid out, but that would assume the worst of the OP (he/she after all, was the tank).

    To your point of being one-shot, no doubt many PvE'ing light-armors need to revisit their mitigations to ensure better survivability.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okokdir View Post
    I have yet to see a single successful run of a level 100 t2 Challenge in any instance. I raid daily, with all kinds of groups from the inexperienced to hard core raiders.

    But, hey, I am sure there have been a couple of groups that were successful, somewhere.
    You could check out this thread:
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhunar View Post
    I'd like to hear other players impressions concerning the difficulty of T2 instances at level 100.
    Well, they really were too easy at level 95, but my impression is that - at level 100 at least - they are overbalanced at the mob side.
    I've been playing Lotro instances and several raids since Mirkwood times.
    In Stoneheight lvl 100 T2, our group consisting of my Guardian 100 (mostly lvl 95 gear and lvl 95 first age legendary items), a burglar 100 and minstrel 100 were unable to defeat Bubosh-Grat (770 k morale).
    Am I missing something or do the new gear and jewelry make such a difference?
    I'd welcome if you shared your experiences concerning the T2 difficulty topic.
    I like what they have done. They have taken and made t1 worth running by having good drops and ramped up t2c so that is stops the people who complain that t2c should indeed be a challenge for the very best.

    The problem with the old way was that no one wanted to run t1 because no loots. But then not everyone could do t2 meaning a lot of people never got to see the content at all. I would like to see them add unique awards to the people that do t2c. Not necessarily better loot tables. But unique status items. Special mounts. Special trophies, unique titles, and maybe just a slightly higher chance for the drops in t1. Not enough to make people want to not run t1. Maybe 10% higher.

    Rather or not they made the t2c a little over board I can't say. Having too much fun running t1 to know. I do wish I'd taken the time to get my 'in their absence' quest line complete with t2c before the changes. LOL.

  18. #18
    The disparity is kind of ridiculous. I can fly through Iorbars T1 solo on my minstrel, but on T2 can't even get past the first group of mobs with a non-tank duo partner
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  19. #19
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    Additional information (OP Instances T2 difficulty at level 100)

    Thank you all for answers provided and impressions shared so far.

    Don't take me wrong, I really welcome an increased difficulty level for instances (at least in T2 mode). After U13, instances were extremely easy and it was possible to complete them in almost every group setup, some even solo with heavy armor classes. I just wondered about the difficulty increase between T1 and T2, which was quite impressive in my point of view, for example compared to Riders of Rohan times and even Rise of Isengard times.

    I think, my Guardian is well equipped with blue lvl 95 armor and jewelry, lvl 95 first age legendary items and additional blue items, everything with respect to minimize incoming damage and keeping a firm grip on aggro. I have a complete gear set for tank purposes and one for damage only. I have been playing instances regularly in varying setups and ToO T2 raids on level.

    For Stoneheight T2 I tried the classical tank line (blue) and once the yellow line as an alternative.
    The minstrel was in healing stance, the burglar had skilled the red line. Both minstrel and burglar have 95 gear and legendary items. The burglar additionally had a lvl 100 1st age weapon equipped.

    During the fight, Bubosh-Grat gets random aggro from time to time, running to one of the other group members. He usually manages to hit them 1 or 2 times before he comes back to my tank. Once the minstrel was struck down early in the fight with two hits (and it was not the bubble of Bubosh-Grat). The problem was that with only one dedicated damage dealer the fight duration is rather long and the buffs he gets from removing the corruption stacks. Not removing his corruption is also no possibility. Perhaps I will reconsider the timing for removing the corruption considering the suggestions from Kenjii_31.

    On the other hand, it was refreshing to be asked to help with Bells of Dale with my loremaster in the yellow setup. The yellow line was just not required before U14 and I missed playing him as a supporter. At least with our group setup including a pure supporter we completed Bells of Dale t2 hm (Warden, Champion, Captain, 2 Hunters, Rune-keeper).

    So in general harder T2 group content is a step in the right direction in my humble opinion. Well, propably it would be even better, if the loot would reflect the changes in difficulty...
    I appreciate when different characters have to play their classical role and the setup is not 1 healer and different damage dealers filling up the group.
    But maybe we just had a bad day and it gets a little easier when everybody has lvl 100 equipment.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vehdren View Post
    The increase in difficulty of instances and the game as a whole is the reason that I have resubbed and a number of my old kin mates are coming back to the game. These changes are welcome and may even usher in a revival of interest in LOTRO.

    People need to adjust from the era of afk instancing where you might die once a year to content that presents some degree of challenge. Please don't drag this game back to where it was 6 months ago.
    I don't think anyone wants that. It's no fun if its not challenging. However, I have just come out of Fornost Shadow challenge. In with a fab team, all familiar with this instance. The run to the boss was great, a good amount of difficulty, some deaths, lots of tactics needed and used to overcome the lead-in bosses.

    Main boss, wipe after wipe after wipe. All correct tactics used, 75% of the group in top end gear and using their main chars. The difficulty on challenge was just too high to overcome. Cooldowns on most skills, preventing the much needed interrupts to overcome this challenge. Needs maybe just a little bit of balancing for some runs on main boss challenges.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gandie2 View Post
    I like what they have done. They have taken and made t1 worth running by having good drops and ramped up t2c so that is stops the people who complain that t2c should indeed be a challenge for the very best.

    The problem with the old way was that no one wanted to run t1 because no loots. But then not everyone could do t2 meaning a lot of people never got to see the content at all. I would like to see them add unique awards to the people that do t2c. Not necessarily better loot tables. But unique status items. Special mounts. Special trophies, unique titles, and maybe just a slightly higher chance for the drops in t1. Not enough to make people want to not run t1. Maybe 10% higher.

    Rather or not they made the t2c a little over board I can't say. Having too much fun running t1 to know. I do wish I'd taken the time to get my 'in their absence' quest line complete with t2c before the changes. LOL.
    I agree with this. T1 needs the loot, or nobody will ever run them. T1 raids are very important, they give the less experienced - experience. Without this they will never achieve t2. And they will never run t1 for no loot, they will just run sambrog. Sambrog needs to retire, he is an old tired critter now. The incentives in t1 instances and raids, is opening up the system for more and more people to use it. Raids are filling up for two reasons. 1. more difficulty for the more serious raiders out there, and 2. the chance at loot in t1 for the less experienced.

    I understand the frustrations of the elites out there, and the thinking that players who run t1 should not get the same as what they get for running t2, but if we want these raids used more, that needs to be put aside, or once again we will have small numbers of experienced raiders using the raid system, and nobody else bothering. There can be and should be more incentive for running T2, and that can be possible by awarding the same loot as T1, but a lot more of it per run.
    Apes are superior to man in this . . . . When a monkey looks in a mirror, he sees a monkey

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    I don't think anyone wants that. It's no fun if its not challenging. However, I have just come out of Fornost Shadow challenge. In with a fab team, all familiar with this instance. The run to the boss was great, a good amount of difficulty, some deaths, lots of tactics needed and used to overcome the lead-in bosses.

    Main boss, wipe after wipe after wipe. All correct tactics used, 75% of the group in top end gear and using their main chars. The difficulty on challenge was just too high to overcome. Cooldowns on most skills, preventing the much needed interrupts to overcome this challenge. Needs maybe just a little bit of balancing for some runs on main boss challenges.
    What do you mean by top gear? All players wearing level 100 jewellery, socketed armour with all slots filled and FA weapons maxed out? If not there is probably some room for improvement...Something we must not forget too is that level 100 will probably stay the cap for a long time by U15 release, I guess that the devs have provisionned that gear will probably not stay to iLevel 192 but could be 198 or something, or socketable gear could apply to jewellery.

    Without this mid-term view, it's better to not ask for nerf, but rather to train to play better and to try to get the best gear available.

  23. #23
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    Thumbs up

    Finally a well balanced group and competent players are needed again, thx dev for raising a lot difficulty , ppl now finally will have to learn how to /tank/heal/dps again
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  24. #24
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    We are keeping track of instances completed at t2c at lvl 100 on this thread:

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...-and-the-Devs!
    LvL 100s: Beorning, Burglar, Captain, Champ, Guardian, Hunter, Lore-Master, Minstrel, Rune-Keeper
    LvL 85: Warden, Minstrel
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giseldah View Post
    We've done the same instance T2C with a group, about half upgraded maybe, last week. Me tanking on cappy (2 essence armour items then) and a champion, another cappy, hunter and I believe rune-keeper and warden or second hunter. We didn't experience any problems, no deaths I believe, but it was a lot of more fun than before.
    I was not complaining about the increased challenge. I was simply stating that we were unable to finish the instance due to time constraints. I'm sure if more of us were geared in level 100 gear and using level 100 LIs, we would not have had as much of a challenge. We really enjoyed having to THINK about what needed to be done to succeed. It was very refreshing. It left us all looking forward to the next time we could make an attempt.

    Unfortunately, the fact that your group used two captains and a warden and my group used a guard and no captain is probably a large part of the difference. Wardens and captains do have the ability to heal while they tank/fight, while guards JUST tank. When your minstrel is one-shot from a ranged attack from the boss, there really is not much that you can do. Your group was definitely stacked for maximum healing.

    I'm sure we would have figured out what we were doing wrong eventually. Sadly, we had just run out of time for most of our group.

    I would have to agree that the changes to the tactical damage the bosses do does seem to have increased dramatically. Yes, we were all traited/geared for maximum tactical mitigation and resistance. It just did not seem to matter. That is the only place I believe may need a TAD of tweaking balance-wise. We handled the physical damage just fine. It may actually need to be increased a bit, while tactical damage be slightly decreased, if that is even possible. Again, this is just based on my observations on the runs I have been on.
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