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  1. #1

    Over-time pulses can't crit at all

    Just to point out, since the change that 100% crit effects no longer affect over-time pulses.
    No damage/healing over time can crit anymore (channels still can though), except for the initial tick.

    This should really get fixed before it gets to live, over-time effects should tick with your regular crit chance. If not possible the 100% crit change should be reverted, as it at least promoted strategic play.
    ~Dwarrowdelf (Bomb Squad)~
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    My ideas on how LM should be: [url=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?543323-LM-revamp-reconsidered]LM Revamp reconsidered[/url]

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcwen View Post
    Just to point out, since the change that 100% crit effects no longer affect over-time pulses.
    No damage/healing over time can crit anymore (channels still can though), except for the initial tick.

    This should really get fixed before it gets to live, over-time effects should tick with your regular crit chance. If not possible the 100% crit change should be reverted, as it at least promoted strategic play.
    Please, please please. Nerfing it to where no tick criticals is something that really hurts classes that use bleeds or HoTs (RKs, LMs, Wardens, Guards).
    ~Rank 11 Loremaster, Arkenstone~

    ~Rank 13 Warg, Arkenstone~

  3. #3
    agreed!

    When the original attack crit/dev and all the DOTS/HOTS did, that was silly. But now its gone to the other extreme. Plz allow dot/hots to crit TX
    “If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”

  4. #4
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    /signed

    It's stupid that over-time effects cannot crit at all, they should have the crit chance shown in your character panel.
    Siggy

  5. #5
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    I don't want to be a Warden or Fire RK if this goes live...
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  6. #6
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    This change of dot pulses being unable to crit also completely breaks two warden traits:
    - Aggravating Wounds (+dot critical chance)
    - Deep Wounds (+dot critical damage)
    Off the top of my head, there are at least two LM legacies that would also be broken by this; wizard's fire critical chance and burning embers critical chance. I don't doubt there are more legacies and traits in other classes that would also be completely broken by the inability for dots or hots to crit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spilo View Post
    Please, please please. Nerfing it to where no tick criticals is something that really hurts classes that use bleeds or HoTs (RKs, LMs, Wardens, Guards).
    Add captains (both dots and hots) and burglars to that list too. I would say yellow hunters also but their trap dots never crit in the first place, and their other bleeds (barbed arrow, lingering wound) were already weak.

    A list of who wouldn't be really hurt by this change would be shorter. Minstrels (only a little HoT here), Champions (other than rend bleed, deep strikes bleed, maybe the 30% self heal over time), and most hunter damage would come out of this change with minimal damage.

    To the best of my knowledge, the only skill whose pulses were all critting when the initial attack crit was (burg) cunning attack; it is also the only skill whose effect has a different name when the initial attack critted (Critical Cunning Attack instead of Cunning Attack). Not really sure why that skill wasn't changed instead of affecting dozens of skills spanning all classes.
    Last edited by Gremus; Jul 06 2014 at 02:55 AM.
    Gremblus, Seuer, Grinand Bearit, and various others of Arkenstone

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Gremus View Post
    This change of dot pulses being unable to crit also completely breaks two warden traits:
    - Aggravating Wounds (+dot critical chance)
    - Deep Wounds (+dot critical damage)
    Off the top of my head, there are at least two LM legacies that would also be broken by this; wizard's fire critical chance and burning embers critical chance. I don't doubt there are more legacies and traits in other classes that would also be completely broken by the inability for dots or hots to crit.


    Add captains (both dots and hots) and burglars to that list too. I would say yellow hunters also but their trap dots never crit in the first place, and their other bleeds (barbed arrow, lingering wound) were already weak.

    A list of who wouldn't be really hurt by this change would be shorter. Minstrels (only a little HoT here), Champions (other than rend bleed, deep strikes bleed, maybe the 30% self heal over time), and most hunter damage would come out of this change with minimal damage.

    To the best of my knowledge, the only skill whose pulses were all critting when the initial attack crit was (burg) cunning attack; it is also the only skill whose effect has a different name when the initial attack critted (Critical Cunning Attack instead of Cunning Attack). Not really sure why that skill wasn't changed instead of affecting dozens of skills spanning all classes.
    This whole thing is a huge nerf for Fellowship Heart, as the crits of that skill are pretty nice
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  8. #8
    I want to add, along with the other posters: This has to be fixed. The bulk dps of a number of classes depends on DOTs, they even have traits that affect DOT critical magnitude. If those DOTs can't critical, the traits you yourselves made are rendered useless, and the DPS of those classes is DRAMATICALLY nerfed, and unless there's a similar nerf in enemy difficulty we're all going to have a rough time.
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  9. #9
    Agreed this needs to be fixed.

    I also affects Captains too as most of our healing is HoT. If this isn't fixed it will destabilise Solo play in some classes and effectively make pots and mincers the only way to successfully heal in larger groups.

    Also bleeds will be cack!

  10. #10
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    I really doubt dots and hots never Being able to crit is intentional. I'm sure the devs are just trying to fix auto crit bleeds making every dot tick a crit, such as cunning attack from stealth, and this is just an unintended bug.

    It's too big of a problem for the devs to let it go live; it will be fixed.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nimrinoth View Post
    It's too big of a problem for the devs to let it go live; it will be fixed.
    Not necessarily. The update goes live in just 8 days, and the fixes you mentioned won't have time to be tested before then most likely. I've seen bugs like this go live before, and it stinks.

    This will also affect Minstrel SoS healing pulses too, which is discouraging. Makes the skill almost worthless if there's no chance of a crit.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  12. #12
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    Agreed, I hope this gets fixed (if possible) before U14 goes live. Bleeds play quite significant role to many classes, and each bleed tick should have a chance to crit based on character's critical rating.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    This will also affect Minstrel SoS healing pulses too, which is discouraging. Makes the skill almost worthless if there's no chance of a crit.
    The only reason I have SoS in my skill bar is that I can use Call to Ioreth and then SoS, I would never use SoS alone. Guess I can remove it from the bars then…

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    Not necessarily. The update goes live in just 8 days, and the fixes you mentioned won't have time to be tested before then most likely. I've seen bugs like this go live before, and it stinks.
    It should not be to hard for Turbine to revert this *FIX* before U14 goes live and fix it afterwards in another Hotfix.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Askanko View Post
    It should not be to hard for Turbine to revert this *FIX* before U14 goes live and fix it afterwards in another Hotfix.
    how many times have i thought this and have turbine prove me wrong........
    just a reminder... anything playable, doable, and actionable, may be considered an exploit and the ban-hammer may be authorized at any and all moments.

  16. #16
    so defilers are nerfed pretty hard?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by mrfigglesworth View Post
    so defilers are nerfed pretty hard?
    Lol .

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  18. #18
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    I think this is the time for everybody to unite under this post in order for them to NOT go live with this.It's been quite some time since I found a post in which EVERYBODY agrees.Literally!This affects everybody in a very bad way and it's not even close to make the game "more challenging". Besides the fact that they contradict themselves once more by rendering a number of LI legacies useless,they also show quite a bit of lack in creativity in making this game more challenging(if this is the reason they are doing this change).The community has shown more than once that they don't like it when they have to adapt every 5 months to playing their class differently.IF they are doing this in order to achieve an overall raise in the difficulty of the game then it looks like they are walking down a really bad path.Also excuse the newbie question,I don't really understand how testing and brainstorming ideas works on Bullroarer but seriously,who proposes these changes? ._. Is it players?Is it devs?Are the devs listening to the players?Unless there has been somewhere on the forums a post proposing that pulses don't crit anymore then I would say "Hmm looks like somebody had an idea and they considered it".But who would propose something like this?Is this anywhere on the forums?Was it brought up by players during the testings? I've seen many posts and many great ideas about making the game in overall more challenging but never did I see something like this being proposed.I just assume that this is an attempt to make the game more difficult because I honestly don't see any rhyme of reason to it in the first place.even more so if they are doing it for some other reason,it's absurd.I really hope they reconsider!

    P.S I honestly hope that if they go live with this they won't keep advertising the Runekeeper as a potential "Healing Class"....

  19. #19
    It's clearly a mistake fixing the always critical ticks off of critical hits. I simply hope that Turbine fixes this mistake, as it is a big factor in gameplay. If not, I will be avoiding the moors until they do.
    ~Rank 11 Loremaster, Arkenstone~

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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by mrfigglesworth View Post
    so defilers are nerfed pretty hard?
    I didnt test this on beta but

    I dont think its a really big nerf giving the fact that hots have a 3,4 and 6 seconds cooldown (not including efflorescence) and each hot ticks every 3/5 seconds. This means most hots tick once before being refreshed.

    If this "fix" goes through i can only forsee myself spamming hots more often for the initial heal.
    Retired from lotro since june '14. Currently kicking other noobs on gw2.

  21. #21
    This is another blow to redline captains. It makes the Vital Stroke trait completely useless (+50% Grave Wound DOT Critical Magnitude). The trait doesn't affect the initial application of the skill, so the trait does nothing. Bleeds are an enormous component of captain DPS in both red and yellow line (in yellow it is more of a threat issue, but important nonetheless).
    Arkenstone: Pelagor 100 Captain, Finarwe 100 Loremaster, Banderdas 100 Minstrel

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelon View Post
    This is another blow to redline captains. It makes the Vital Stroke trait completely useless (+50% Grave Wound DOT Critical Magnitude). The trait doesn't affect the initial application of the skill, so the trait does nothing. Bleeds are an enormous component of captain DPS in both red and yellow line (in yellow it is more of a threat issue, but important nonetheless).
    which hopefully is a good sign this is a bug.

  23. #23
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Gremus View Post
    This change of dot pulses being unable to crit also completely breaks two warden traits:
    - Aggravating Wounds (+dot critical chance)
    - Deep Wounds (+dot critical damage)

    Off the top of my head, there are at least two LM legacies that would also be broken by this; wizard's fire critical chance and burning embers critical chance. I don't doubt there are more legacies and traits in other classes that would also be completely broken by the inability for dots or hots to crit.

    Add captains (both dots and hots) and burglars to that list too. I would say yellow hunters also but their trap dots never crit in the first place, and their other bleeds (barbed arrow, lingering wound) were already weak.

    A list of who wouldn't be really hurt by this change would be shorter. Minstrels (only a little HoT here), Champions (other than rend bleed, deep strikes bleed, maybe the 30% self heal over time), and most hunter damage would come out of this change with minimal damage.

    To the best of my knowledge, the only skill whose pulses were all critting when the initial attack crit was (burg) cunning attack; it is also the only skill whose effect has a different name when the initial attack critted (Critical Cunning Attack instead of Cunning Attack). Not really sure why that skill wasn't changed instead of affecting dozens of skills spanning all classes.
    Thank you, thank you, thank you... Gremus. (Well everyone else too for listing those classes that "are" highly effected.)
    Thank you for the write up. I knew this would hit more than my main Lore-mistress, burg, and arsenal of all other char types as well, but I for one was havin' fits trying to think of, and state, "why". (At the time when I read the OP, the only thing I could think of were my LM's overtime fire skills, and water-lore. So I didn't reply, as I felt it would come off as a LM bias'd post.) And as you have written it breaks multiple classes' legacies and traits, I am more than willing to believe it's a bug. (I just fear for how soon™ it can be fixxed. or as Vulcwen said in the OP, the other 'fix' reverted.) I've been a bit MIA and not available to wander around on BR weekends, I can't thank you enough, folks who have been smacking stuff around on BR.
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  24. #24
    Lead Designer to Lead Developer: Over-time effects applied by always-crit skills no longer always crit on each pulse.

    Lead Developer (not really understanding what Designer meant) to Developer: Those guy told me that those Over-time effects should not longer crit


    Open damage calculation logic:

    ...
    critChance = calculateCritChance(skill, buffs, ...)
    dmgTotal = calculateDamage(skill, critChance, ...)

    ...
    after fix
    ...

    critChance = calculateCritChance(skill, buffs, ...)
    if isOverTimeEffect(skill) then critChance = 0
    dmgTotal = calculateDamage(skill, critChance, ...)

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Askanko View Post
    Lead Designer to Lead Developer: Over-time effects applied by always-crit skills no longer always crit on each pulse.

    Lead Developer (not really understanding what Designer meant) to Developer: Those guy told me that those Over-time effects should not longer crit


    Open damage calculation logic:

    ...
    critChance = calculateCritChance(skill, buffs, ...)
    dmgTotal = calculateDamage(skill, critChance, ...)

    ...
    after fix
    ...

    critChance = calculateCritChance(skill, buffs, ...)
    if isOverTimeEffect(skill) then critChance = 0
    dmgTotal = calculateDamage(skill, critChance, ...)
    Yeh, something like that is what I think the "fix" was. The actually intended fix would take more work, since I think DoTs themselves carry the critchance when they got applied. So than always-crit effects should be implemented differently from just a +100% crit chance buff.
    ~Dwarrowdelf (Bomb Squad)~
    Freeps: Vulcwen (R8 LM), Vulciel (lvl 100 RK), and some lower level alts.. Creep: Shadowweb (R6 spider)
    My ideas on how LM should be: [url=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?543323-LM-revamp-reconsidered]LM Revamp reconsidered[/url]

 

 
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