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Thread: nice 1v1s

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaxMaxtor View Post
    Sometimes getting the kb isn't actually winning. 1v1ing should be about getting better at playing your class, not farming renown or infamy.
    Maybe that was the case years ago, now it's about what class you play, which skills that actually get through the lag and which skills that crit. and don't tell me that's not true since there are made-up rules about what people can and can not.
    Do you come from a land down under? Where women glow and men plunder? Can't you hear, can't you hear the thunder? You better run, you better take cover - Men at Work.
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaxMaxtor View Post
    Again, for someone who doesn't play out here, you sure have a lot of opinions on the state of our pvp. Maybe if you took more of a Vinner approach to 1v1ing, you'd see things a bit differently. Sometimes getting the kb isn't actually winning. 1v1ing should be about getting better at playing your class, not farming renown or infamy.

    Perhaps Hydrain could give you a lesson? He's actually the best hunter I've faced so far and he even gets the kb to go with it.
    Yet so many 1v1s are simply decided on the coin flip of one question: "Did *insert one skill* crit or not?"

    For example, "Did impale crit?" "Did upshot crit?" "Did revenge crit?" "Did bleed cash out crit?"

    I'd be more inclined to agree with your opinion if this were not the case.

    1v1s are no longer the epitome of "improving yourself" that they used to be. Especially with the 1v1 balance that exists currently. They probably do help some people improve their coordination, etc. a little bit, but not nearly half as much as they used to. Before, you HAD to improve your skill with your class in order to beat someone who was more skilled than you. You were forced to improve, and thus 1v1s caused people to work on their mechanics in order to have a chance.

    But...

    It doesn't take skill to beat a skilled opponent anymore, it takes luck.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    Yet so many 1v1s are simply decided on the coin flip of one question: "Did *insert one skill* crit or not?"

    For example, "Did impale crit?" "Did upshot crit?" "Did revenge crit?" "Did bleed cash out crit?"

    I'd be more inclined to agree with your opinion if this were not the case.

    1v1s are no longer the epitome of "improving yourself" that they used to be. Especially with the 1v1 balance that exists currently. They probably do help some people improve their coordination, etc. a little bit, but not nearly half as much as they used to. Before, you HAD to improve your skill with your class in order to beat someone who was more skilled than you. You were forced to improve, and thus 1v1s caused people to work on their mechanics in order to have a chance.

    But...

    It doesn't take skill to beat a skilled opponent anymore, it takes luck.
    I agree with most of this, I think most of it is 70% luck, 30% skill. However, you can still see some discrepancy with yourself and other people in certain 1v1s, though obviously with the moors changes, it's kinda hard to validate anything like I've been saying. True 1v1s died with RoR imo. If people really wanted to use 1v1s to validate skills, no one on either side would touch the OPs, but obviously thats never gonna happen haha.
    Last edited by joshy8910; Jul 04 2014 at 11:55 PM.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshy8910 View Post
    I agree with most of this, I think most of it is 70% luck, 30% skill. However, you can still see some discrepancy with yourself and other people in certain 1v1s, though obviously with the moors changes, it's kinda hard to validate anything like I've been saying. True 1v1s died with RoR imo. If people really wanted to use 1v1s to validate skills, no one on either side would touch the OPs, but obviously thats never gonna happen haha.
    Same class vs same class spars are still a decent (not perfect) way to see who has the most skill.

    1v1's are still a good way to figure out how best to compete against another class. Especially if you would rather learn your opponent by fighting them instead of playing the other side. The 1v1's I find the most challenging are one's like I have against Mazzor, Fantastical, Hydrain and others who own me. Al tho I feel they may get bored with killing me over and over at times.
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  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by DaxMaxtor View Post
    Same class vs same class spars are still a decent (not perfect) way to see who has the most skill.

    1v1's are still a good way to figure out how best to compete against another class. Especially if you would rather learn your opponent by fighting them instead of playing the other side. The 1v1's I find the most challenging are one's like I have against Mazzor, Fantastical, Hydrain and others who own me. Al tho I feel they may get bored with killing me over and over at times.
    True, but class vs class spars with and always have come down to people of fairly equal skill, rank (freeps more recently, though not as showing as creeps), gear, etc to what resists, crits, etc. Of course, when there's skill difference, it's more noticeable whos better hehe. It really determines skill how someone does against a different class rather than class v class obviously, though.

    As I said, there is discrepancy shown between some people compared to others, but I'm just saying the outcomes are skewed with all the outside buffs, though it has become less skewed with the trait lines freeps got/corruption changes imo, so it's not as bad as RoR. The OPs allow for you to not build as much damage and spec differently because you can sacrifice phys/tact mastery if you have OPs giving them back haha, thats what I mean by skewed, as it can vary outcomes a lot differently compared to the past regarding cooldowns, bleeds ticking, etc. I get your point though, Gun, but as Swift said, today's 1v1s dont nearly validate as much as they did RoI and previously.

    Going back to Swift's point though, if a certain one of my skills get resisted (esp fighting those creeps that feel the need to unnecessarily have delving pots in 1v1s which has always baffled me when I was on my creep), it impacts me a lot. That being said, I'm not going to use that as an excuse, and still try my best to win every time I do happen to 1v1 now, which isnt even close to as often as I used to.

    I haven't really got a true chance to 1v1 you if the opportunity arises though, Gun , been a while my friend. I finally got most of my gear save like 1 piece in pve land, so it should be fun. Unfortunately, I'm going on vacation all week and prob wont be on much, so dont know if it happen anytime soon, but look forward to it if it does.
    Last edited by joshy8910; Jul 05 2014 at 01:45 AM.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    Yet so many 1v1s are simply decided on the coin flip of one question: "Did *insert one skill* crit or not?"

    For example, "Did impale crit?" "Did upshot crit?" "Did revenge crit?" "Did bleed cash out crit?"

    I'd be more inclined to agree with your opinion if this were not the case.

    1v1s are no longer the epitome of "improving yourself" that they used to be. Especially with the 1v1 balance that exists currently. They probably do help some people improve their coordination, etc. a little bit, but not nearly half as much as they used to. Before, you HAD to improve your skill with your class in order to beat someone who was more skilled than you. You were forced to improve, and thus 1v1s caused people to work on their mechanics in order to have a chance.

    But...

    It doesn't take skill to beat a skilled opponent anymore, it takes luck.
    I am going to argue this a little bit,

    Winning 1v1's is a lot of chance, however there are a lot of things that you can do to lower your opponents "chance" of winning (I tend to walk around with 16k finesse because I don't like not being able to rely on my CC) and raise your "chance" of winning (I tend to walk around with about 15k crit rating in that build). It isn't as if I walk into a 1v1 and basically think of it as a coin toss. There are things you can do about it with timing CC and skill rotations and understanding your class as much as you understand your opponents. I tend to do better against reavers because I learned the class inside and out when it was particularly difficult to 1v1 on a reaver. Wargs and BA's are a different story. BA's get me almost everytime.



    That being said, I lose many, many fights and have ragelogged on multiple occasions because of wargs who need to HIPS sprint morale pot and LOS me, BA's who evade, and self healers. But that's just the game. I walked into a rank 5 defiler at lugz crossroads, pulled him across the bridge and couldn't outdps his heals with the WTAB NPC's on him. That definitely made me ragelog, but you just need to keep coming out and finding ways to put yourself in a position to win. Being a hunter, you won't most of the time.

    While I'm here, I need to find someone to take over my position guarding the slug pits and killing future EZModers as they walk out of gramsfoot, as I'll be leaving for a month and a half of vacation on Mondays. Send me a/tell or mail ingame if you are interested in the job. Pays about 1.5-2k renown an hour, as much as 4k if they feel confident coming out in pairs.
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  7. #32
    Yeah, when I see BA's use MT against hunters I cringe and chuckle at the same time. 75% evade buff against a hunter?? seriously LOL. Also just my opinion, any BA that uses stuns or vt on a hunter in 1v1 is garbage. Also, I appreciate that all the hunters I 1v1 don't use fear arrow on me or only use it to do a heal
    Last edited by houseofcards; Jul 05 2014 at 07:25 AM. Reason: ok maybe not stuns, since i think i did that once :(

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
    Also just my opinion, any BA that uses stuns or vt on a hunter in 1v1 is garbage.
    Your opinion is garbage.
    Do you come from a land down under? Where women glow and men plunder? Can't you hear, can't you hear the thunder? You better run, you better take cover - Men at Work.
    You're welcome. Now it will fester in your head :p

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Witch0King View Post
    Your opinion is garbage.
    I love you too

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
    Yeah, when I see BA's use MT against hunters I cringe and chuckle at the same time. 75% evade buff against a hunter?? seriously LOL. Also just my opinion, any BA that uses stuns or vt on a hunter in 1v1 is garbage. Also, I appreciate that all the hunters I 1v1 don't use fear arrow on me or only use it to do a heal
    I do that though :P. I don't think there is a problem using that on a hunter. Whenever I fight, I assume everyones going to go all out on me; 1v1s have changed over the years since I've been apart of them, so I'm just trying to adjust to the times. Besides, Bards Arrow is only a 30 second CD, I've always used it (noticed a long time ago I'm one of the few hunts that do use it for some reason dk why) and my heal is at 30 seconds with the legacy, originally being 2 minutes. Hunts most gimped class out there right now, so we need everything at our disposal. Appreciate you giving me a chance though :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Witch0King View Post
    Your opinion is garbage.
    Be nice, Tingy :P. Have you played your BA in a while though? Creeps are the strongest they've ever been since you've been here and strongest I've been here even since their previous strength in book 7 moria which blows by that; you'd love your BA now.
    Last edited by joshy8910; Jul 06 2014 at 12:01 AM.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshy8910 View Post
    Be nice, Tingy :P. Have you played your BA in a while though? Creeps are the strongest they've ever been since you've been here and strongest I've been here even since their previous strength in book 7 moria which blows by that; you'd love your BA now.
    Sure, however, the two freeps I meet per hour isn't worth the effort. Too few people during my gametime to bother. Was planning to bring back my freep, however, since Turbine is being Turbine I'm giving up on that. Instead of adding new content, they just do the same over and over. I'm tired of leveling and replacing my LIs. Wish they'd come up with something new for a change.

    Oh, it's also quite sad how there are so few raid-leaders left I'd like to join, I hear both of them are leading freepside now. /sad


    (let me just add that the most action I had during June was at a GV camp which lasted about 30 boring minutes)
    Last edited by Witch0King; Jul 05 2014 at 08:51 PM.
    Do you come from a land down under? Where women glow and men plunder? Can't you hear, can't you hear the thunder? You better run, you better take cover - Men at Work.
    You're welcome. Now it will fester in your head :p

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
    Yeah, when I see BA's use MT against hunters I cringe and chuckle at the same time. 75% evade buff against a hunter?? seriously LOL. Also just my opinion, any BA that uses stuns or vt on a hunter in 1v1 is garbage. Also, I appreciate that all the hunters I 1v1 don't use fear arrow on me or only use it to do a heal
    You, sir (or ma'am?), are one in a million.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeathDemon07 View Post
    I am going to argue this a little bit,

    Winning 1v1's is a lot of chance, however there are a lot of things that you can do to lower your opponents "chance" of winning (I tend to walk around with 16k finesse because I don't like not being able to rely on my CC) and raise your "chance" of winning (I tend to walk around with about 15k crit rating in that build). It isn't as if I walk into a 1v1 and basically think of it as a coin toss. There are things you can do about it with timing CC and skill rotations and understanding your class as much as you understand your opponents. I tend to do better against reavers because I learned the class inside and out when it was particularly difficult to 1v1 on a reaver. Wargs and BA's are a different story. BA's get me almost everytime.
    I don't think of 1v1s purely as a coin toss, but I do think that it is heavily weighted towards luck rather than skill. And I do mean HEAVILY weighted. I think I'd agree with Vinner's 70% luck, 30% skill. Maybe even 75% luck.

    You might have better mechanics than that reaver who happened to impale you for 13k after finally getting all of his four bleeds on you after missing 126398162398613 of them, but just after you whittled him down to 3k, he nailed you for 70% of your hp. The game makes it look like that reaver just outplayed you. He didn't. You were winning by over a 50% morale margin, until he simply got lucky with one skill that is heavily weighted.

    And it isn't just reavers' impale, there's tons more skills that are "heavily weighted" in that regard.

    That's what annoys me. There's less room to outplay people. Loads more room to just "get lucky" and look like I stomped someone who may be twice the player I am.

    I could go out there, run blue line on hunter, and mash quick shot/barrage/pen shot while pressing my face on S on my keyboard and roflstomp a warg who decides to be nice and not use sprint, but that doesn't mean I have better mechanics than him, it just means the game has sooo much less room for counterplay than it used to. I also think part of the problem was the class revamps, but to get into that would require a much larger wall of text than this already is, which I don't think you want to read.

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by joshy8910 View Post
    I do that though :P. I don't think there is a problem using that on a hunter. Whenever I fight, I assume everyones going to go all out on me; 1v1s have changed over the years since I've been apart of them, so I'm just trying to adjust to the times. Besides, Bards Arrow is only a 30 second CD, I've always used it (noticed a long time ago I'm one of the few hunts that do use it for some reason dk why) and my heal is at 30 seconds with the legacy, originally being 2 minutes. Hunts most gimped class out there right now, so we need everything at our disposal. Appreciate you giving me a chance though :P



    Be nice, Tingy :P. Have you played your BA in a while though? Creeps are the strongest they've ever been since you've been here and strongest I've been here even since their previous strength in book 7 moria which blows by that; you'd love your BA now.

    in a perfectley balanced ettenmoors classes can go all out on each other in 1v1s with the exception of certain healing and using long cds(just for consistency of 1v1 circles). The Issue I have with skills like vt and impale is that they crit for crazy amounts and just feel like its an insult to the hunter/rk/mini i am 1v1ing who has grinded their gear update after update to be at the pvp standard and all I've done is killed hobbits and trees for one week. I agree that this self nerfing of skills makes 1v1s meaningless(to an extent) now since you're not actually beating a BA or a reaver if they don't use their heavy skills which they do out in the "wild". But I personally find it useful to self nerf vt and MT since it helps me efficiently build my keen eye stance , set up a burst and coordinate skill cds.

    Also: Moving target: 50% evade chance and an extra 25% evade to ranged attacks(75%), 15sec duration 1min30sec CD
    God how I wish I had a BA back when it was on 30sec duration and 40sec cd. the only classes that could put a dent in us were rk/mini/LM

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
    in a perfectley balanced ettenmoors classes can go all out on each other in 1v1s with the exception of certain healing and using long cds(just for consistency of 1v1 circles). The Issue I have with skills like vt and impale is that they crit for crazy amounts and just feel like its an insult to the hunter/rk/mini i am 1v1ing who has grinded their gear update after update to be at the pvp standard and all I've done is killed hobbits and trees for one week. I agree that this self nerfing of skills makes 1v1s meaningless(to an extent) now since you're not actually beating a BA or a reaver if they don't use their heavy skills which they do out in the "wild". But I personally find it useful to self nerf vt and MT since it helps me efficiently build my keen eye stance , set up a burst and coordinate skill cds.

    Also: Moving target: 50% evade chance and an extra 25% evade to ranged attacks(75%), 15sec duration 1min30sec CD
    God how I wish I had a BA back when it was on 30sec duration and 40sec cd. the only classes that could put a dent in us were rk/mini/LM
    Yeah, I corrected myself with its duration. It seems the skill seems to be fluctuating so often now that idk anymore lol. That's what I'm saying tho; u have an old timer 1v1ers mentality like mine that I can respect. A reaver should have to use impale that's only a 20 second cd on me wisely stacking bleeds, not have it hit for 4k without bleeds, but Turbine is flawed ofc so that's not the case, and vt should be a Dps skill that BAs like u shouldn't feel bad using but because the skill is op and I'm weaker than I should be but it's not. Those short CDs shouldn't have nearly the impact of a long cd, but they do unfortunately haha. Hoping update 14 provides a slightly better improvement to overall pvp if not much.

    If only you were here in RoI when 1v1s werent so broken, you'd have way more fun like I did .

  16. Guards are about the only ones who really didn't get shafted too hard in this update.

    Reavers not using impale/DS/wrath make 1v1's really fun and interesting.

    Defilers not healing nor WL's healing are fun too.

    I hear spiders not using Virulent can nalso be fun since it can crit 2k+ for a tick.

    I guess my point is, it's much more fun on both sides to try and make it as fair as possible even though the devs can't seem to do it on their own.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by FinchFries View Post
    Guards are about the only ones who really didn't get shafted too hard in this update.

    Reavers not using impale/DS/wrath make 1v1's really fun and interesting.

    Defilers not healing nor WL's healing are fun too.

    I hear spiders not using Virulent can nalso be fun since it can crit 2k+ for a tick.

    I guess my point is, it's much more fun on both sides to try and make it as fair as possible even though the devs can't seem to do it on their own.
    First off, I love you. Second off, why have you and everyone who transferred to Brandywine returned? Admit Gladden is the best server ever and all you idiots who wasted money transferring should have invested your time more wisely. I forgive you.

    Admit your error and allow everyone who stuck around while all of you bailed to Brandywine feel good about themselves.

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    Last edited by Ravyrn; Jul 07 2014 at 07:04 AM.
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