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  1. #1

    [Group content] Epic story instances as new 3mans

    Well, since this update comes with 2 epic story instances, which both have a fellowship option, it'd be nice if these 2 instances were polished a bit and released as 2 new 3mans. Both of them have a nice story behind it, take a relatively good amount of time, and with only a few changes they can be made into completely viable 3mans.

    I think players will already be pleased if they don't scale at all, and it doesn't need to have multiple tiers. If it's released in the current form, perhaps with some small stat buffs to the bosses and a small mechanic (just copy it from another instance), it'll be 2 fun new 3mans that are actually a bit harder than t1 3mans, but not as hard as t2 is gonna be with this update.

    Add a chest for loot, a very simple (in concept) challenge objective, and it'd be ready for release.
    This could be a nice thing to do for u14.1 or something.
    ~Dwarrowdelf (Bomb Squad)~
    Freeps: Vulcwen (R8 LM), Vulciel (lvl 100 RK), and some lower level alts.. Creep: Shadowweb (R6 spider)
    My ideas on how LM should be: [url=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?543323-LM-revamp-reconsidered]LM Revamp reconsidered[/url]

  2. #2
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    I like this idea.
    Maybe allow people to choose between small fellowship and full fellowship options, with the latter having more mobs/tougher bosses?
    It would be nice.

  3. #3
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    This is an interesting idea. Its worth looking into but I don't think there is enough time to make a conversion for this in time for u14. But it does have the possibility for u15 in a couple months. Were there any quests within these instances that could be converted to daily quests for the instances?

    To convert these they would need to do at least a couple things. Here are what I can think of that they would need to do.

    • Duplicate the instances so there is an Epic and a Public version.
    • Add loot chests
    • Convert or add any quests to be used as side quests within the instances.

  4. #4
    I love this idea. If implemented, it would be a very large boost to U14 with a limited effort.

    I have one question since I am not doing any quests to save them for the live version (just testing instances and the moors), how large are these instances? The reason I ask that is if they are large enough to keep it as a full fellowship instance instead of reducing it to a 3 man to save some work.
    Withywindle characters-Caesaran (warden), Dernudan (Lore master)
    Brandywine characters- Dernudan (champion), Denthur (guardian), Delphinianic(captain)

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dernudan View Post
    I love this idea. If implemented, it would be a very large boost to U14 with a limited effort.

    I have one question since I am not doing any quests to save them for the live version (just testing instances and the moors), how large are these instances? The reason I ask that is if they are large enough to keep it as a full fellowship instance instead of reducing it to a 3 man to save some work.
    I ran through them solo, and the paths of dead one took around 15 minutes (4 pulls of 6 elites, and than the boss encounter has a wave of 3 elites, than one of 6, and than finally 2 elite masters).
    The nazgul one was a lot shorter, but it had a time limit of 6 (I think) minutes. Just flagging it as a 3man would cost the least amount of work, and even as a 3man I think the nazgul needs more morale (~750k I guess), so it's harder to make it within the time limit.
    And the bosses of both need to do more damage.

    Some ideas:
    Paths of Dead:
    To keep it easy, 1 gets a +50% damage buff and the other a -25% incoming damage buff.

    Challenge would than be to kill them at the same time, not really a unique, but it's easy in concept, and won't be too much work I think.

    Bane of Rhûn:
    Stacks a damage buff over time, and maybe the defensive corruptions the guards in BG do.

    Challenge could be to not remove corruptions.
    ~Dwarrowdelf (Bomb Squad)~
    Freeps: Vulcwen (R8 LM), Vulciel (lvl 100 RK), and some lower level alts.. Creep: Shadowweb (R6 spider)
    My ideas on how LM should be: [url=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?543323-LM-revamp-reconsidered]LM Revamp reconsidered[/url]

  6. #6
    MadeOfLions is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcwen View Post
    Add a chest for loot, a very simple (in concept) challenge objective, and it'd be ready for release.
    This could be a nice thing to do for u14.1 or something.
    There should already be a chest that spawns in if you defeat the boss encounters at the end of each of these (not 100% sure it's in this build), but I'd appreciate any feedback about these you can give me! These are intended more to recapture the feeling we had in the early days, where Epic Books often concluded with Fellowship encounters, rather than to scratch the Challenge Mode, Tier 1/2 instance mechanics itch; but if this ends up being a popular thing I could see them becoming more elaborate.

    MoL

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by MadeOfLions View Post
    There should already be a chest that spawns in if you defeat the boss encounters at the end of each of these (not 100% sure it's in this build), but I'd appreciate any feedback about these you can give me! These are intended more to recapture the feeling we had in the early days, where Epic Books often concluded with Fellowship encounters, rather than to scratch the Challenge Mode, Tier 1/2 instance mechanics itch; but if this ends up being a popular thing I could see them becoming more elaborate.

    MoL
    I didn't see a chest when I ran through it in B3, so I'll check when the next build is up.
    Anyway, with some loot and being able to enter it from anywhere in the world, it'd probably be reasonably popular.
    Having to search a reflection pool is kinda meh, and the fact they don't put you back near the pool is quite annoying as well.

    I did like seeing the fellowship option though, and also the fact you get to choose it inside the instance. In some of the older epic instances, if you pick the solo version, you can't get the fellowship one from the reflection pool anymore, which kinda limits the access to these versions.
    ~Dwarrowdelf (Bomb Squad)~
    Freeps: Vulcwen (R8 LM), Vulciel (lvl 100 RK), and some lower level alts.. Creep: Shadowweb (R6 spider)
    My ideas on how LM should be: [url=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?543323-LM-revamp-reconsidered]LM Revamp reconsidered[/url]

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by MadeOfLions View Post
    There should already be a chest that spawns in if you defeat the boss encounters at the end of each of these (not 100% sure it's in this build), but I'd appreciate any feedback about these you can give me! These are intended more to recapture the feeling we had in the early days, where Epic Books often concluded with Fellowship encounters, rather than to scratch the Challenge Mode, Tier 1/2 instance mechanics itch; but if this ends up being a popular thing I could see them becoming more elaborate.

    MoL
    Since there is a chest coming, would it be possible to just stick it on the instance finder as a 3 or 6 man non scalable instances? This would greatly increase traffic to them and make people who like to group up something to keep them happy witha very limited effort.

    And I do like the fact that you made them fellowship in the first place, but adding them to the finder would really boost their popularity.
    Withywindle characters-Caesaran (warden), Dernudan (Lore master)
    Brandywine characters- Dernudan (champion), Denthur (guardian), Delphinianic(captain)

  9. #9
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    I have some questions because I haven't seen the instance yet and bully is closed:

    • Is it shorter than The School at Tham Mírdain? How short?

    • How many enemies are in the instance?

    • How is the overall pace? Does it have brakes like temporary invisible walls or scripted scenes?

    • How many Elite-Masters are in there?

    • Is it only unlocked via epic questline?
    Suggestions: Tasks [URL="http://goo.gl/rt4M5"]en[/URL]|[URL="http://goo.gl/BBbhC"]de[/URL]

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadeOfLions View Post
    There should already be a chest that spawns in if you defeat the boss encounters at the end of each of these (not 100% sure it's in this build), but I'd appreciate any feedback about these you can give me! These are intended more to recapture the feeling we had in the early days, where Epic Books often concluded with Fellowship encounters, rather than to scratch the Challenge Mode, Tier 1/2 instance mechanics itch; but if this ends up being a popular thing I could see them becoming more elaborate.

    MoL
    +1, no, +2

    I miss the SoA feel. The game was a tougher (contrariwise, I was a worse player!), a little grittier, more feel that the world was a challenging place and "big things" were around the corner.

    Example: the old Old Forest really was a scary, dangerous place, just as in the books. The along came the Nat'l Park Service, cleaned it out, and getting lost became passe.

    But rather than rehash the good old days ("kids, get off my lawn") - beefing up the Epic books to be more, well, epic, would be most welcome.

    The Amon Sul book instance is nicely handled, providing solo and group options. The original was hard!

    The cornucopia of good gear is part of the issue--and loot boxes--, without the world and instances having been beefed up to match. I look forward to further rebalancing of landscape mobs and instances to catch up with players.

    Really like the idea of Epic instances offering difficulty options!

    Cheers,
    Gloimli @ Windfola

  11. #11
    I've checked the loot for The Ruthless Dead, and it's really underwhelming, just a few morale/power pots and maybe a major essence.
    Even though the instance is kinda fun (a bit on the easy side, even for just 3 players, especially the boss encounter needs more difficulty), players aren't going to run this because:
    - You need to go to the reflection pool
    - The loot sucks
    ~Dwarrowdelf (Bomb Squad)~
    Freeps: Vulcwen (R8 LM), Vulciel (lvl 100 RK), and some lower level alts.. Creep: Shadowweb (R6 spider)
    My ideas on how LM should be: [url=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?543323-LM-revamp-reconsidered]LM Revamp reconsidered[/url]

  12. #12
    MadeOfLions is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcwen View Post
    - The loot sucks
    The chance for better loot to drop is quite small, but it's possible. These instances are intended for those who miss the days of Fellowship content as part of the Epic, not so much for those who want to do instance runs for the loot.

    MoL

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadeOfLions View Post
    These instances are intended for those who miss the days of Fellowship content as part of the Epic
    Thank you. I had a great time playing the epic questsline with my kinship in the early days.
    We stopped when we had to break up the group every time there was a solo instance.
    So this is a nice touch and I'd love to see more of these group options for epics.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadeOfLions View Post
    The chance for better loot to drop is quite small, but it's possible. These instances are intended for those who miss the days of Fellowship content as part of the Epic, not so much for those who want to do instance runs for the loot.

    MoL
    Psst! MoL!

    Could you sneakily add "update old solo instances to make them fellowship friendly" to the master Taskboard for the next round of lower-level revamps? I agree with Raskantir--it's maddening to be going along having a blast with a partner or fellowship, and have to keep jumping out of fellowship to do solo instances. The Algraig and Grey Company rep quests in Enedwaith are notorious for this.

  15. #15
    MadeOfLions is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBelle0927 View Post
    it's maddening to be going along having a blast with a partner or fellowship, and have to keep jumping out of fellowship to do solo instances. The Algraig and Grey Company rep quests in Enedwaith are notorious for this.
    We're definitely planning to be mindful of this going forward -- I don't know when the next lower-level revamps will be happening, but we generally keep our new process in mind when we revisit older content, so I think it's safe to say we'll be open to it.

    MoL

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadeOfLions View Post
    We're definitely planning to be mindful of this going forward -- I don't know when the next lower-level revamps will be happening, but we generally keep our new process in mind when we revisit older content, so I think it's safe to say we'll be open to it.

    MoL
    Thank you thank you thank you thank you!!!!!!!!!


    Did I say thank you?

  17. #17
    Some suggestions for the future:

    - (stat-wise) Downscaling for fellowship epic story instances. Epic story instances can be considered a specific kind of group content, so it keeps things consistent.
    - Different difficulty settings for these instances
    - Remote reflection pool

    The epic story has some really good instances in it, and it's just a shame most of them have been trivialized due to level cap raises and other character advancement.
    Difficulty settings should be there to allow players to tweak difficulty to their own skill, so it's always a challenge if they want to (maybe just a buff to damage and morale to mobs the leader can type in when launching it).
    Perhaps add deeds for completing all epic story instances (in the group mode) for a volume. The reward can just be a title and some cosmetics or a mount.

    An instance that I'd love to do in a group at a decently high difficulty would be Vol1 Book 15: One Hope Remains


    Quote Originally Posted by MadeOfLions View Post
    The chance for better loot to drop is quite small, but it's possible. These instances are intended for those who miss the days of Fellowship content as part of the Epic, not so much for those who want to do instance runs for the loot.

    MoL
    I get that the loot shouldn't be amazing, but at the very least, can these kind of instances drop hope tokens? I think that would be a fitting reward. Coming out of a dreadful situation alive etc.
    ~Dwarrowdelf (Bomb Squad)~
    Freeps: Vulcwen (R8 LM), Vulciel (lvl 100 RK), and some lower level alts.. Creep: Shadowweb (R6 spider)
    My ideas on how LM should be: [url=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?543323-LM-revamp-reconsidered]LM Revamp reconsidered[/url]

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcwen View Post
    - Remote reflection pool
    Please not that. It's part of it that you have to go there - like in earlier times with instances and raids. While I like and dislike the Instance finder at the same time because on the one hand you don't have to go there anymore, making it more comfortable and especially possible to do extremely different (respectively located at different places) instances after each other (otherwise you would have to travel a lot first), but on the other hand it has/had a special feeling and atmosphere. While I'm fine with the instance finder because of this major advantage I would see it differently with these epic instances - on the one side that is less about doing lots of instances after each other, more about enjoying one or two segments of the story together and you can mostly find several epic instances at the same place (what is not true with In your Absence and Moria for example - others have at least different locations in the same area, but epic instances have exactly one reflecting pool per region/expansion). And in the other side without doing your first suggestion of downscaling it's very limited to do lower level instances because it's quickly turning to be too easy, so you have only a limited range of reflecting pools you would use I think making it less valuable to use than the instance finder...

    That's what I would think about that.

    Orodbril

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Orodbril View Post
    Please not that. It's part of it that you have to go there - like in earlier times with instances and raids. While I like and dislike the Instance finder at the same time because on the one hand you don't have to go there anymore, making it more comfortable and especially possible to do extremely different (respectively located at different places) instances after each other (otherwise you would have to travel a lot first), but on the other hand it has/had a special feeling and atmosphere. While I'm fine with the instance finder because of this major advantage I would see it differently with these epic instances - on the one side that is less about doing lots of instances after each other, more about enjoying one or two segments of the story together and you can mostly find several epic instances at the same place (what is not true with In your Absence and Moria for example - others have at least different locations in the same area, but epic instances have exactly one reflecting pool per region/expansion). And in the other side without doing your first suggestion of downscaling it's very limited to do lower level instances because it's quickly turning to be too easy, so you have only a limited range of reflecting pools you would use I think making it less valuable to use than the instance finder...

    That's what I would think about that.

    Orodbril
    If you go that way, I rather had the replay-option at the NPC that starts it (or someone else if that NPC is phased out). It's already annoying if you want to do an epic story instance you've already done with someone that does it the first time, that you need to go to 2 different places that could be 2000m apart. I think the current reflection-pool model is just a barrier, and I don't find it bringing the special feeling etc.
    ~Dwarrowdelf (Bomb Squad)~
    Freeps: Vulcwen (R8 LM), Vulciel (lvl 100 RK), and some lower level alts.. Creep: Shadowweb (R6 spider)
    My ideas on how LM should be: [url=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?543323-LM-revamp-reconsidered]LM Revamp reconsidered[/url]

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcwen View Post
    If you go that way, I rather had the replay-option at the NPC that starts it (or someone else if that NPC is phased out). It's already annoying if you want to do an epic story instance you've already done with someone that does it the first time, that you need to go to 2 different places that could be 2000m apart. I think the current reflection-pool model is just a barrier, and I don't find it bringing the special feeling etc.
    Okay, yeah, you're right that is annoying..


    maybe it would be possible to do it both - original NPC and reflecting pool: the NPC for the case you meant and the reflecting pool as kind of centred NPC when you want to do several without having to run through the whole region (what can be annoying in some cases), but the bigger problem here is: when you don't have someone doing the epics there at that moment you would need to remember where the NPC from each, particular instance is standing. The reflecting pool on the other side can easily be found on the map. So doing both might be the best solution, but probably not the easiest...

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadeOfLions View Post
    The chance for better loot to drop is quite small, but it's possible. These instances are intended for those who miss the days of Fellowship content as part of the Epic, not so much for those who want to do instance runs for the loot.

    MoL
    Adding something with good cosmetic looks like the singed and unsinged cloaks in the Instance: Return to Azanarukâr during the Vol. 2, Book 6 -- Chapter 8: New Devilry ?is nice : P
    [I]"Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of judgment. For even the wise cannot see all ends"[/I] - [B]Gandalf[/B]

 

 

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