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  1. #1
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    Reminder, Community Guidelines

    Upon signing into the forums this afternoon I received this message:

    "We strive to make these forums a welcoming, open, respectful, place for discussion about LOTRO. As part of this effort, our community team has created and enforces a set of Community Guidelines that all members are expected to follow. If you haven't read them, or if it's been a while, please take a moment to do so."


    I'm just wondering if this message is randomly generated or if this is an indication of some unintentional infraction on my part.

    ~ Thanks

  2. #2
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breeon View Post
    Upon signing into the forums this afternoon I received this message:

    "We strive to make these forums a welcoming, open, respectful, place for discussion about LOTRO. As part of this effort, our community team has created and enforces a set of Community Guidelines that all members are expected to follow. If you haven't read them, or if it's been a while, please take a moment to do so."


    I'm just wondering if this message is randomly generated or if this is an indication of some unintentional infraction on my part.

    ~ Thanks
    It doesn't indicate any inappropriate action on anyone's part. If you log in, you'll see it. It does address everyone by name and that is intentional to, hopefully, make people pay attention and click through to the community guidelines. Recently there seems to be an influx of people who have never read them, or did not know they exist. So this seemed like a good way to make sure every last person who logs in was presented with them and an opportunity to read them (click the link in the message). You can dismiss the message by clicking the X and it won't come back.

    Also, for those who have infractions, you'll now get a message in the same spot telling you how many more infractions you have until action is taken against your account (based on the schedule in the community guidelines). So everyone will have a very clear heads up when they are about to run afoul of the infraction point limits.

    Basically, it's a way to educate everyone of rules that have existed for more than 8+ years, but many seem to have not read or understood.

  3. #3
    Now I wonder what it says to those who have over the limit and aren't banned.

    It is nice to have the info on Infractions pop up to be easily found.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Basically, it's a way to educate everyone of rules that have existed for more than 8+ years, but many seem to have not read or understood.
    What if we have read them, and do not seem to fully understand aspects of them?


    ***Since this seems to be an issue from time to time when I post, I'm being 100% serious and literal in the above statement.***

  5. #5
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    I got it too and thanks Sapience, I think people do need to be reminded from time to time.

  6. #6
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gedachtnis View Post
    Now I wonder what it says to those who have over the limit and aren't banned.

    It is nice to have the info on Infractions pop up to be easily found.
    When you're banned it says you were banned for exceeding the infraction limit. If there's another reason it's listed instead.


    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    What if we have read them, and do not seem to fully understand aspects of them?


    ***Since this seems to be an issue from time to time when I post, I'm being 100% serious and literal in the above statement.***
    Feel free to send me a PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post

    Also, for those who have infractions, you'll now get a message in the same spot telling you how many more infractions you have until action is taken against your account (based on the schedule in the community guidelines). So everyone will have a very clear heads up when they are about to run afoul of the infraction point limits.
    Yes and thank you, its very helpful for the criminals like myself who are just trying to conform but never seem to fit in. Knowing the score is a good thing, can we get a dossier on the point system next? What constitutes a 1-5 point infraction, etc? Thanks in advance.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    If you log in, you'll see it.
    Not only if you log in. If you come to the LotRO forums, it's there, addressing you as 'Unregistered' until you do log in.

    Thank you for this, Sapience (or whoever's responsible); it's good to have the reminder.

  9. #9
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgrum View Post
    Yes and thank you, its very helpful for the criminals like myself who are just trying to conform but never seem to fit in. Knowing the score is a good thing, can we get a dossier on the point system next? What constitutes a 1-5 point infraction, etc? Thanks in advance.
    It's right in the guidelines. Check the bolded/underlined portion.

    Understanding Warnings, Infractions, and Bans.

    Infractions are individual actions taken against your account.
    Infractions do not expire.
    Each infraction has a point value known as infraction points.

    All of the above rules may have one or more severity levels that may result in more or less infraction points being awarded per infraction. A minor violation of a rule may only result in one infraction point being issued while a major violation could result in a 20 point infraction and immediate ban. Infractions typically carry, 1, 2, 3, 5, or 20 infraction points based on severity of the violation.
    Some infraction points may expire 30, 60, 90 days or more after being issued. Severe violations can result in points that do not expire, and chronically violating the same rule can extend point expiration time.

    Please note: Warnings are not counted against your maximum infraction limit.
    Infractions never expire and lead to permanent bans as follows
    • Free to Play accounts: 2 infractions.
    • VIP and Premium Accounts: 10 Infractions.
    Infraction points may lead to temporary suspensions or permanent bans as follows:
    • 5 Active Points: 1 Day
    • 10 Active points: 3 day suspension
    • 15 Active points: 7 day suspension
    • 17 Active points: 3 Month Suspension
    • 18 Active Points: 6 Month Suspension
    • 20 points (active or otherwise): Permanent
    The Community Team reserves the right to assign temporary and permanent bans at will based upon the severity of an infraction.
    * Automatic bans based on the number of infractions take all infractions into account, regardless of their Active or Expired status. If an account was above the limit when this change was implemented (August 2010) it will be banned if any further infractions are issued against it.
    All visitors to the Community Sites are logged by IP address. We may occasionally ban a user by their IP address. Further abuse by users who have been IP banned may result in an abuse report to the user's internet service provider.

    As an example, profanity may be minor, moderate or major. If you are clearly trying to circumvent the filter then it's not an 'I forgot' it's a deliberate act to get around it and will result in more points. A profanity laced tirade will earn you more points than a single profane word. And so on.

    Profanity is my favorite example because it is never an accident.
    You must think it.
    You must type it.
    You must hit post.
    That's at least 3 opportunities to not violate the guideline. If you still post it, it's very intentional and treated as such. Same is also true with insults, name calling, etc.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    So this seemed like a good way to make sure every last person who logs in was presented with them and an opportunity to read them (click the link in the message). You can dismiss the message by clicking the X and it won't come back.
    When I come to the forums I usually don't log on to read through them. I only log-in if I see a topic I want to post in, such as this one.

    The message comes up as well though bearing the name "Unregistered" but it has no X to close it out, which is very annoying. It's very jarring to have it up there all the time when browsing and do unregistered members having a look at the forums really need to be constantly reminded of the posting rules before they even have an account, and therefore can't post anyway, by a message it's hard to stop seeing out of the corner of your eye all the time?

    Now that I have logged-in I have gotten the X and closed the message, but I wonder if it will be back the next time I come here without logging-in?
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  11. #11
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by WBS View Post
    Now that I have logged-in I have gotten the X and closed the message, but I wonder if it will be back the next time I come here without logging-in?
    Yes it will, but not if you log in. You should only have to cancel it once.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    It's right in the guidelines. Check the bolded/underlined portion.




    As an example, profanity may be minor, moderate or major. If you are clearly trying to circumvent the filter then it's not an 'I forgot' it's a deliberate act to get around it and will result in more points. A profanity laced tirade will earn you more points than a single profane word. And so on.

    Profanity is my favorite example because it is never an accident.
    You must think it.
    You must type it.
    You must hit post.
    That's at least 3 opportunities to not violate the guideline. If you still post it, it's very intentional and treated as such. Same is also true with insults, name calling, etc.
    You know Sapience I recall a time when things were not so black and white, when context and the assumption of humor was more the norm. Thanks for posting this, the criminal underground of LOTRO forums is dying slowly but if they are laughing, its a good death. You can infract me now if you didn't smile

  13. #13
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgrum View Post
    You know Sapience I recall a time when things were not so black and white, when context and the assumption of humor was more the norm. Thanks for posting this, the criminal underground of LOTRO forums is dying slowly but if they are laughing, its a good death. You can infract me now if you didn't smile

    Being abusive/offensive and claiming it a joke was never permissible. in fact, there is actually a comment in our COC along those very lines...

    22. Although the Game is a role-playing game, you may not claim “role-playing” in defense of any violation of the Code of Conduct.
    The same is true about "it was just a joke." Always has been. At least through the 8 or so years I've been a member of this community (since closed beta).

  14. #14
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    This is a good and fairly noninvasive way of reminding users that the COC exists. You're not forced to click on it if you don't want to - you can x it away and it will never come back. Lots of forums of this size struggle to find a way to get their members to be aware of the rules. "I didn't know I couldn't X" is almost never accepted as an excuse. Hopefully this will help address that.
    Neddor, Untrustworthy Guardian of Arkenstone
    Massan, Captain Nutter of Laurelin

  15. #15
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    Sounds all pretty straight-forward. Thank you Sapience.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Yes it will, but not if you log in. You should only have to cancel it once.
    But, as I said above, is it really necessary to have it displayed to unregistered visitors?

    If they don't have an account then they can't post, if they do, or they create one, then as soon as they log-in it will show until they cancel it.

    Surely that's enough?
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  17. #17
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    In this case, regardless of whether you have an account or not, it's a "one size fits all" message and I doubt that Turbine can filter out non account holders. If it's an issue for people to read, agree to and abide by the Community Guidelines when joining, well, all I can say is.........nothing.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Octaviane View Post
    In this case, regardless of whether you have an account or not, it's a "one size fits all" message and I doubt that Turbine can filter out non account holders. If it's an issue for people to read, agree to and abide by the Community Guidelines when joining, well, all I can say is.........nothing.
    Not at all.

    This is filtered by name and those not logged-in are identified by the name "Unregistered" so it can certainly be filtered out by that means.

    Those who do not have accounts to post do not really have an interest in the guidelines for posting.
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  19. #19
    actually i really don't care about guidelines i'm gonna give my 2 cents if its a infraction so be it i am who i am nothing will change my attitude

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen1981 View Post
    actually i really don't care about guidelines i'm gonna give my 2 cents if its a infraction so be it i am who i am nothing will change my attitude
    You are as entitled as the next person to give your 2 cents worth as long as it's delivered in an appropriate manner. There is no valid reason that I can think of to be or do otherwise....

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by WBS View Post
    But, as I said above, is it really necessary to have it displayed to unregistered visitors?

    If they don't have an account then they can't post, if they do, or they create one, then as soon as they log-in it will show until they cancel it.

    Surely that's enough?
    What does it matter? Might as well tell anyone who is considering registering that there are guidelines, and they might as well not waste their time registering for the forums if they can't abide by it.

  22. #22
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    I like to have that message in german - thanks.
    Freiheit ist nicht nur ein Recht. Freiheit ist eine permanente Aufgabe, ein dauerhafter Prozeß.
    Kurt Biedenkopf (*1930), deutscher Wirtschaftjurist und CDU-Politiker

  23. #23
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    This is the 3rd time I have seen this message in the 7yrs I have been playing the game

    I think it's quite handy, and useful, to have a reminder every now and then of the Guidelines

    And as stated it's non-intrusive.
    Just a little text message in the header.

    And once you read the Guidelines, or even just scroll to end of em, the message disappears

  24. #24
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by WBS View Post
    Not at all.

    This is filtered by name and those not logged-in are identified by the name "Unregistered" so it can certainly be filtered out by that means.

    Those who do not have accounts to post do not really have an interest in the guidelines for posting.
    Not picking on you here, but this is false. The name is simply a field inserted into a blanket message. It pulls your name once you log in. It litteral is just {username} inserted at the start of the message. It's not filtered in any way.

    I would disagree with those not having accounts not being interested in the rules. I think, and I'm not alone in this belief, that some people prefer to know they aren't entering the wild west and some basic expectation is made regarding behavior and courtesy. Some find this a reason to participate in a community over another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen1981 View Post
    actually i really don't care about guidelines i'm gonna give my 2 cents if its a infraction so be it i am who i am nothing will change my attitude
    That kind of attitude doesn't bode well for your longevity here. There are right ways and wrong ways to provide an opinion. One is valuable, the other is a one way ticket out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Octaviane View Post
    You are as entitled as the next person to give your 2 cents worth as long as it's delivered in an appropriate manner. There is no valid reason that I can think of to be or do otherwise....
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ayaria1988 View Post
    I like to have that message in german - thanks.
    Working on it, though it can't be filtered by language unfortunately and I don't want to end up with 3 big yellow boxes up there.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Feel free to send me a PM.
    And if I have sent you PMs on a minimum of 3 separate occasions in the past on this topic, and never received a reply?

 

 
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