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  1. #1
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    Unhappy Concern from casual player (forums)

    I am a player of many MMOs and par take in many forums and different community's, though I am actually shocked to see how the LOTRO forums are handled, the amount of censorship is to put it mildly disgusting. These players are putting together well written threads rising real concerns within the community and the best way to deal with that is to just lock the thread and pretend nothing happened? (I would just like to point out at this point I personally have no problem with the direction of the game, I just have a major problem with the issues I'm rising here).

    Locking negative threads will never solve the issue, it's bad business practice and will give the forums/Turbine a bad rep, I personally don't spend much time on here anymore after discovering this.

    I've only listed the problems and will now list some solutions though I'm very doubtful they will be taken on board. With threads that are not troll threads and rise concerns and issues don't just slam the door in their face, actually take some time to explain your reasoning behind your decisions, or take the feedback on board and perhaps do something with it, you will only be able to take feedback on broad if feedback keeps coming in i.e. keep the thread open, feedback may be negative but believe it or not, not all feedback is positive. All feedback is useful however.

    Finally I'd just simply like to point out how awful your actions are, imagine if similar things were occurring in the Turbine offices, staff concerns throw out the window with no thought whatever, you'd be mad right? So why is it different when it's a player.

    Turbine will never be "powered by our fans" if this continues like this, thanks for reading and I hope some of my feedback is taken and board.
    ~ WhiteTalpa ~

  2. #2
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    To be honest, I don't see much censorship here, as long as a thread does not come to personal attacks against other players or Turbine staff.
    Also if you discuss exploits, your thread will vanish.

    But the threads about lag, missing end game content, bad updates, lag, too long grins, lag and whatsoever go on and on and on and on and on.

    What in your opinion did get censored lately?

  3. #3
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    What sparked this off for me was the locking of the "Please focus on what matters..." thread, and yes maybe you don't see a lot of censorship here, however I like I said I use a lot of forums and the censorship is bad compared to those.
    ~ WhiteTalpa ~

  4. #4
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    I assume that particular thread was closed because there already is a thread where players discuss pretty much the same thing. If you notice, in the post right below OP there is a link to that thread. Usually we don't need two split topics speaking about the same matter

  5. #5
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    Locking threads is fine if there is a final official comment on why it was locked. The issue is when threads are locked / deleted without any comment (e.g. https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...our-Goody-Bad/ ) which back then triggered me to not spend any more money on this company that has no responsible error handling.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orivien View Post
    I assume that particular thread was closed because there already is a thread where players discuss pretty much the same thing. If you notice, in the post right below OP there is a link to that thread. Usually we don't need two split topics speaking about the same matter
    Unfortunately, that thread had a productive discussion going between the posters when it was curtailed. It seemed to complement the official thread in that the latter only invited opinions, whereas the previous thread started to become a place for players to (openly?) discuss them between themselves.


    p.s. WhiteTalpa- check your PM.
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  7. #7
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    After reading some posts on that unofficial community forum, I have to say that I like how things are handled here. Be careful what you wish for, you may get it.

    One thing I would like to point out is that a lot of folks here have a lot of experience on other forums too. We know whats up.
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  8. #8
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    Many times threads are locked because of the -delivery- of the message, not the message itself. A ranty post is probably going to be locked (especially one that says "Turbine, you need to do X, or else!"), whereas a well thought-out post with problems and suggested solutions will likely not. There are plenty of examples of negative threads in the forums that are not locked, because they are respectful and polite, and aren't someone just venting their spleen.
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  9. #9
    There is censorship and there are threads that get locked or deleted but for the majority of cases something in the thread violated the Community Guidelines.

    https://www.lotro.com/en/content/community-guidelines

    Good threads that start out with valid topics or concerns can be locked because other posters in the thread have violated some portion of the Community Guidelines. Sometimes those violations will generate infractions or other disciplinary issues with those posters and because all such interaction is private between Turbine and the player, other posters in the thread will not know why the thread was locked.

    Threads that just vaporize, are only noted by those who posted in them and if players did not follow that thread they see "nothing" at all. The deletion occurred but they didn't notice or were not affected by it.

    The censorship here is because this is not a true "public" arena, it's a private venue provided by a corporation for discussion about their product. When topics drift into areas that fall outside of this definition, they can be locked and even if they topic may seem to be within "normal bounds" the subject matter can be deemed "off message" and removed.

    By posting here players agree to these restrictions.


    note: I have little experience with non-Turbine forums that deal with LOTRO, however I can imagine that their list of on-off topic items will be different.
    Whoever says “I” creates the “you.” Such is the trap of every conscience. The “I” signifies both solitude and rejection of solitude. Words name things and then replace them. Whoever says tomorrow, denies it. Tomorrow exists only for him who does not seek it. And yesterday? Yesterday is Kolvillàg: a name to forget, a word already forgotten.

    The Oath: A Novel by Elie Wiesel

  10. #10
    It would be cool to see an explanation post when a thread is closed. There may be a good reason to close a thread, but it's not surprising at all that locking it with no explanation leads to questions. Sometimes it's obvious, like it's a troll thread or it's derailed by drama. Many times it's not so obvious, many times there's very constructive discussion happening in the thread. I even saw a very helpful theorycrafting thread get locked with no explanation and lost.

    A short explanation is not a lot to ask, IMO. It's not like there are 100s of these locked threads every day. There's one or two, sometimes none. It would cost someone a couple minutes a day or less.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteTalpa View Post
    I am a player of many MMOs and par take in many forums and different community's, though I am actually shocked to see how the LOTRO forums are handled, the amount of censorship is to put it mildly disgusting. These players are putting together well written threads rising real concerns within the community and the best way to deal with that is to just lock the thread and pretend nothing happened? (I would just like to point out at this point I personally have no problem with the direction of the game, I just have a major problem with the issues I'm rising here).

    Locking negative threads will never solve the issue, it's bad business practice and will give the forums/Turbine a bad rep, I personally don't spend much time on here anymore after discovering this.

    I've only listed the problems and will now list some solutions though I'm very doubtful they will be taken on board. With threads that are not troll threads and rise concerns and issues don't just slam the door in their face, actually take some time to explain your reasoning behind your decisions, or take the feedback on board and perhaps do something with it, you will only be able to take feedback on broad if feedback keeps coming in i.e. keep the thread open, feedback may be negative but believe it or not, not all feedback is positive. All feedback is useful however.

    Finally I'd just simply like to point out how awful your actions are, imagine if similar things were occurring in the Turbine offices, staff concerns throw out the window with no thought whatever, you'd be mad right? So why is it different when it's a player.

    Turbine will never be "powered by our fans" if this continues like this, thanks for reading and I hope some of my feedback is taken and board.
    If they break the code of conduct for forum use Turbine has every right to delete a post/thread. Now ur interpretation of what may or may not break the rules is not important. It's the interpretation that Turbine decides. So, in the most broad interpretation of forum conduct, please give an example of a post or thread that got deleted that didn't break a possible code violation? (thread subscribed to so I can read your response)
    .

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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    After reading some posts on that unofficial community forum, I have to say that I like how things are handled here. Be careful what you wish for, you may get it.

    One thing I would like to point out is that a lot of folks here have a lot of experience on other forums too. We know whats up.
    In general, I prefer heavily moderated forums. The reason being that I have no patience for drama, I don't want to spend my time reading troll posts, I don't want to see people or groups of people get personally insulted.

    However, even though this forum has heavy moderation, there are still so many trolls here and so much drama. I see threads get completely derailed by a couple posters doing back and forth off topic drama. I see lots of condescension in place of arguments and discussion. I see a large group of players get called freeloaders and told they lack responsibility in real life, by a council member no less. I see posters act like self appointed moderators, to a point where Sapience had to step in and ask these posters to stop, and it still happens.

    I don't mind heavy moderation in principle, but there's still a lot of work to do, IMO.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    After reading some posts on that unofficial community forum, I have to say that I like how things are handled here. Be careful what you wish for, you may get it.

    One thing I would like to point out is that a lot of folks here have a lot of experience on other forums too. We know whats up.
    I am yet to post on the other forums as i know it will result in me being banned here, however I do read that site a fair bit, and IMO that site is 1000 times the forum this is, this site isnt just heavily over moderated by official sources it is heavily over moderated by some people on here who think they are mods themselves and absolutely despise people talking candidly about this game, if someone posts on here anything negative towards the game or turbine that doesnt get deleted they are quickly hounded down and the pack (which is full of the usual names) do there very best to belittle/talk down/mock and lots of other unsavoury antics aimed at people who genuinely do care about the state of the game, these people who do the lynching IMO do not care about the game, they only care about THEIR game and that is why they scour the forums ready to jump all over anyone who dares to try and steer the game away from what they want.

    On the other site anyone is welcome to any opinion they want, if you are being a tool you get told so, it has real proper honest discussion on the game, if only some of those discussions were allowed over here maybe the game wouldnt be in the gutter.

    Pretty sure that will probably be my last post here, no longer care for this forum, its without question the most pointless forum of any MMO going. This forum used to be full of people who had constructive energetic ideas for this game, tactics and builds were readily discussed, now they have all been chased off it been reduced to talking about oversized shrews, which is a perfect reflection of why the game had diminished so rapidly.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by bobbylobs View Post
    I am yet to post on the other forums as i know it will result in me being banned here ...
    Is that TRUE?

    Gee I had no idea that posting on another public forum would get you banned here. That needs to be added to the Code of Conduct list of no-noes if true. Hopefully the 2014PC will clarify this rule.
    Whoever says “I” creates the “you.” Such is the trap of every conscience. The “I” signifies both solitude and rejection of solitude. Words name things and then replace them. Whoever says tomorrow, denies it. Tomorrow exists only for him who does not seek it. And yesterday? Yesterday is Kolvillàg: a name to forget, a word already forgotten.

    The Oath: A Novel by Elie Wiesel

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by SabrielofLorien View Post
    Is that TRUE?

    Gee I had no idea that posting on another public forum would get you banned here. That needs to be added to the Code of Conduct list of no-noes if true. Hopefully the 2014PC will clarify this rule.
    Considering that the ringleader of the other forum still posts here, I do not think that this is true.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SabrielofLorien View Post
    Is that TRUE?
    Not really, I post there all the time.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dernudan View Post
    Considering that the ringleader of the other forum still posts here, I do not think that this is true.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes View Post
    That did make us laugh!
    I know.....
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Runesi_EU View Post
    Not really, I post there all the time.
    Under what name may I ask? the same one as here?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbylobs View Post
    Under what name may I ask? the same one as here?
    No, although Runesi is a character name in my sig if you feel like hunting me down!
    Council Of The West On Snowbourn

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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Runesi_EU View Post
    No, although Runesi is a character name in my sig if you feel like hunting me down!
    No its not about hunting you down, it just seems strange you dont seem confident enough to post under the same name here as there, its ok to say you post over there, but if no-one here knows who you are over there you have no fear to be banned do you? for me I would only ever post under my name that is known.

    For the record i know personally someone who was banned from here just a few weeks after starting to post over there under the same name, he only had 4 infraction points and none were for trolling yet still got banned for "constant trolling" he isnt the only one, so please dont tell me posting over there doesnt have a negative effect over here.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbylobs View Post
    No its not about hunting you down, it just seems strange you dont seem confident enough to post under the same name here as there, its ok to say you post over there, but if no-one here knows who you are over there you have no fear to be banned do you? for me I would only ever post under my name that is known.

    For the record i know personally someone who was banned from here just a few weeks after starting to post over there under the same name, he only had 4 infraction points and none were for trolling yet still got banned for "constant trolling" he isnt the only one, so please dont tell me posting over there doesnt have a negative effect over here.
    Maybe, although I should point out that it was known that I post there by Turbine before my acceptance on last years PC and subsequent visit to Boston.
    Council Of The West On Snowbourn

    Runesi lvl 100 Rune Keeper

  23. #23
    I post on both forums, although no often here anymore, with no problems and I use the same name on both sites.

    I dont always agree with how Turbine handles the forum, but as it is their site it is their rules. I do agree that a quick post to say why a thread is locked would be very helpful.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geldeger View Post
    It would be cool to see an explanation post when a thread is closed. There may be a good reason to close a thread, but it's not surprising at all that locking it with no explanation leads to questions. Sometimes it's obvious, like it's a troll thread or it's derailed by drama. Many times it's not so obvious, many times there's very constructive discussion happening in the thread. I even saw a very helpful theorycrafting thread get locked with no explanation and lost.

    A short explanation is not a lot to ask, IMO. It's not like there are 100s of these locked threads every day. There's one or two, sometimes none. It would cost someone a couple minutes a day or less.
    Sapience often does explain why he closes threads, although he doesn't really need to. I don't think I've ever seen a closed thread where it wasn't fairly obvious why the thread was closed.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by cossieuk View Post
    I post on both forums, although no often here anymore, with no problems and I use the same name on both sites.

    I dont always agree with how Turbine handles the forum, but as it is their site it is their rules. I do agree that a quick post to say why a thread is locked would be very helpful.
    I post on the other site in question and to be fair to Turbine that's never caused any issues here. However, though this is Turbine's site and it's up to them what CoC they wish to enforce, banning the use of 3rd party sites could be the proverbial can of worms - for instance what about kin forums hosted on 3rd party sites such as enjin, guildlaunch etc not to mention reputable multi-game sites such as MMOChampion, ING etc. They would need to employ someone full time to monitor a huge number of sites to keep an eye on what people who post here were up to - which IMO would both be a distraction and a massive waste of energy and resources that would be better spent engaging with their customers and the community as a whole.
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