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  1. #1

    [Crafting] Essences

    Currently, it takes a barter for a single use recipe from the Dol Amroth rep vendor for a single use recipe for a specific essence type. The essence recipes are gated behind ally for the 'ratings' essences, and kindred for the 'mainstat' essences. Pretty standard stuff for recent lotro rep grind, though at present the recipes are not bind on acquire or rep gated themselves (so presumably you could trade to a crafting alt, friend, etc).

    The ingredients are where it gets interesting, as it requires a lvl 50 crafting extract item (forget the name), which currently is store only. Presumably since the item has a ilvl, it will be available elsewhere. The essences also require a purple quality output of a fangorn single use rep recipe as an ingredient. The example being thrown around in /world was an essence of critical defense required 3 top tier eorlingas ingots, the (currently) store only 'extract' item, and a Fangorn skirmish shield of force. Now I don't know if a teal quality of that same shield is also usable as an ingredient, but either way we are currently looking at a double grind to make these items through crafting. Not only is there the grind for rep and barter items to acquire the actual recipe, but you have to grind out now obsolete rep faction's rep/barter currency to make this, or potentially use a weeklong guild cooldown on an obsolete item to be an ingredient in the new recipe.

    I get the thought process on the essences: we're 'extracting' the essence of an item (shield = critical defense, makes some sense) to get that essence in its pure form to put in a new armour piece. Why can't you leave it to a single rep/currency grind however, and just require one of the non-barter/non-single use shield recipes as the required ingredient along with the 'traditional' craptastic grind of the recipe for the essence? Also, currently each crafting profession only has access to 2 or 3 essence recipes each, meaning for example if you're a hunter who is a jeweler, and want to craft essences for agility and crit rating (probably your 2 most important stats), you're up a creek without a paddle. Especially since some of these rating stats are MASSIVELY more valuable than others. Who is going to want to trade their highly valuable to pretty much every class crit essence for an essence from the poor schmuck who's profession only lets them make resistance and fate essences? Consider making only 1 essence recipe for 'rating' essences, and 1 recipe for mainstat essences, and give the recipes multi-outputs so a user can pick whichever rating or mainstat fits their personal needs.

  2. #2
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    (Crafting) Level 100 Essence Recipes require Fangorn Items

    Build 2 introduced the level 100 crafted recipes for essences. Sadly these requires each craft to make a non crit version of a specific Fangorn item.

    This means that not only do you have to obtain 25 Dol Amroth Iron Coins to get the single use Essence recipe. You also have to get the Universal Solvent to drop off a mob or buy it from the store. Now you have to grind 100 Fangorn Leaves to buy another single use recipe to make your crafted essence.

    I'm sorry but this is totally and completely evil to do. Everyone has complained about the Fangorn barter costs since U13 was in beta testing and they are still at the same ungodly prices. Now we are being forced to grind these out to buy bound reputation required recipes to make the new essences.

    The Essenece recipes are nice and aren't bound or reputation gated to use. But to force Fangorn on us makes it so only those with 95+ crafters are going to be able to grind out and obtain these to do...

    Turbine you need to do 2 things. Fix the Fangorn rep barter prices to be reasonable and remove the Fangorn Item requirement from the Essence recipes!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKCrichton View Post
    Build 2 introduced the level 100 crafted recipes for essences. Sadly these requires each craft to make a non crit version of a specific Fangorn item.

    This means that not only do you have to obtain 25 Dol Amroth Iron Coins to get the single use Essence recipe. You also have to get the Universal Solvent to drop off a mob or buy it from the store. Now you have to grind 100 Fangorn Leaves to buy another single use recipe to make your crafted essence.

    I'm sorry but this is totally and completely evil to do. Everyone has complained about the Fangorn barter costs since U13 was in beta testing and they are still at the same ungodly prices. Now we are being forced to grind these out to buy bound reputation required recipes to make the new essences.

    The Essenece recipes are nice and aren't bound or reputation gated to use. But to force Fangorn on us makes it so only those with 95+ crafters are going to be able to grind out and obtain these to do...

    Turbine you need to do 2 things. Fix the Fangorn rep barter prices to be reasonable and remove the Fangorn Item requirement from the Essence recipes!
    I agree. I'm hoping the fangorn items are just placeholders for something more accessible. If it ships like this there will be a lot of seriously unhappy players.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Currently, it takes a barter for a single use recipe from the Dol Amroth rep vendor for a single use recipe for a specific essence type. The essence recipes are gated behind ally for the 'ratings' essences, and kindred for the 'mainstat' essences. Pretty standard stuff for recent lotro rep grind, though at present the recipes are not bind on acquire or rep gated themselves (so presumably you could trade to a crafting alt, friend, etc).

    The ingredients are where it gets interesting, as it requires a lvl 50 crafting extract item (forget the name), which currently is store only. Presumably since the item has a ilvl, it will be available elsewhere. The essences also require a purple quality output of a fangorn single use rep recipe as an ingredient. The example being thrown around in /world was an essence of critical defense required 3 top tier eorlingas ingots, the (currently) store only 'extract' item, and a Fangorn skirmish shield of force. Now I don't know if a teal quality of that same shield is also usable as an ingredient, but either way we are currently looking at a double grind to make these items through crafting. Not only is there the grind for rep and barter items to acquire the actual recipe, but you have to grind out now obsolete rep faction's rep/barter currency to make this, or potentially use a weeklong guild cooldown on an obsolete item to be an ingredient in the new recipe.

    I get the thought process on the essences: we're 'extracting' the essence of an item (shield = critical defense, makes some sense) to get that essence in its pure form to put in a new armour piece. Why can't you leave it to a single rep/currency grind however, and just require one of the non-barter/non-single use shield recipes as the required ingredient along with the 'traditional' craptastic grind of the recipe for the essence? Also, currently each crafting profession only has access to 2 or 3 essence recipes each, meaning for example if you're a hunter who is a jeweler, and want to craft essences for agility and crit rating (probably your 2 most important stats), you're up a creek without a paddle. Especially since some of these rating stats are MASSIVELY more valuable than others. Who is going to want to trade their highly valuable to pretty much every class crit essence for an essence from the poor schmuck who's profession only lets them make resistance and fate essences? Consider making only 1 essence recipe for 'rating' essences, and 1 recipe for mainstat essences, and give the recipes multi-outputs so a user can pick whichever rating or mainstat fits their personal needs.
    Well said. AND, remove the Fangorn Leaf requirements. Unless this is made more player friendly people really won't stay in the game.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    The ingredients are where it gets interesting, as it requires a lvl 50 crafting extract item (forget the name), which currently is store only. Presumably since the item has a ilvl, it will be available elsewhere.
    It is called Universal Solvent. I saw somebody on Bullroarer mentioned that he got it as a drop from a landscape mob while questing. So this part seems to be not too bad yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    The essences also require a purple quality output of a fangorn single use rep recipe as an ingredient. The example being thrown around in /world was an essence of critical defense required 3 top tier eorlingas ingots, the (currently) store only 'extract' item, and a Fangorn skirmish shield of force. Now I don't know if a teal quality of that same shield is also usable as an ingredient, but either way we are currently looking at a double grind to make these items through crafting. Not only is there the grind for rep and barter items to acquire the actual recipe, but you have to grind out now obsolete rep faction's rep/barter currency to make this, or potentially use a weeklong guild cooldown on an obsolete item to be an ingredient in the new recipe.
    I believe it was me showing that list of ingredients. I can confirm that the teal (critted or guild version) of the item is not accepted by the Essence recipe. The Fangorn recipe costs 100 Fangorn leaves and it takes more than a week of doing all possible dailies and crafting instances on one character to get it. Not to mention you have to avoid critting it (even with a grey lowest level tool there is a 5% chance to crit). Essences are the most ridiculous crafting recipes I saw in Lotro. From my point of view, the requirement for Fangorn items should be removed and replaced with something not requiring days of grind of overleveled content. It will be hard enough to get Universal Solvents and enough tokens for single-use essence recipes (after all those 300 you get from questing are spent).
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunasa View Post
    the requirement for Fangorn items should be removed and replaced with something not requiring days of grind of overleveled content. It will be hard enough to get Universal Solvents and enough tokens for single-use essence recipes (after all those 300 you get from questing are spent).
    I think the rare quality essence of the same type would be a good item to use. You'd be taking a purple essence and making it better, with a chance of making it a lot better. The essences are more easily available and would encourage more trade between players of the rare quality essences. The idea of using a crafted item in principle is good, but I don't like the idea of gating end-game recipes behind old content in this way.
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  7. #7

    [ESSENCE] Build 2: Another look into the system

    Now that I've gotten a better look at the general system in this new Build, I have some more thoughts on the Essence system:

    The recipes available at Dol Amroth for crafting Incomparable quality Essences -- which also have a chance of critting for an Epic quality Essence with a minor additional stat -- I find to be quite interesting. But while it makes some sense to have the Essence in question "extracted" from another item (as well as using a rare ingredient drop to help avoid flooding the market), I believe there is a better way of going about this. To quote another poster giving feedback about this topic in a different thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Galuhad View Post
    I think the rare quality essence of the same type would be a good item to use. You'd be taking a purple essence and making it better, with a chance of making it a lot better. The essences are more easily available and would encourage more trade between players of the rare quality essences. The idea of using a crafted item in principle is good, but I don't like the idea of gating end-game recipes behind old content in this way.
    In its current iteration, I can see Uncommon quality Essences being invariably passed on in favor of higher-quality Essences, and the same for Rare quality Essences in favor of Incomparable or Epic ones. If the equipment item required in these Essence recipes is instead replaced with a Rare quality Essence of the same type, then that will give them additional value in the in-game economy: if they are required to potentially get Epic quality Essences of those types, then that means there is a good reason to sell them to other players, and the relatively uncommon drop rate combined with a large player base should prevent supply-and-demand from getting too out of hand with raising prices. At the same time, the Universal Solvent ultra-rare drop -- combined with other means to acquire Incomparable quality Essences, such as the occasional drop chance from Gem Boxes in Dol Amroth -- should counter-balance the more frequent drop rate of Rare quality Essences, preventing the value of crafted Incomparable and Epic essences from dropping too low.

    If done in this fashion, then I propose that Rare quality Essences continue to occasionally drop from landscape mobs and things like the Dol Amroth Gem Boxes, as well as have a more frequent drop rate in non-raid group instances (as well as chest rewards). This leaves Uncommon quality Essences in a separate category from the other higher qualities, and so I think it would be safe enough to have them available from skirmish barter NPCs -- this should at least allow for outfitting a socketed item as desired upon acquiring one (instead of having it be outdated by other gear by the time enough Essences are found as drops), but if done in this fasion I do not believe Essences of Rare or higher quality should be directly available for barter with Marks and Medallions (if they are added to skirmish camps someday, then at the very least I think they should require Seals as part of the barter price, including the Rare quality Essences).

    So in the end, all Essence qualities should theoretically have some measure of value to them:

    • Uncommon quality Essences can be acquired easily to prevent socketed items from growing outdated before becoming useful, but also don't have any use beyond their quality tier. They don't have a strong impact on the value of other higher quality Essences in the market, but also facilitate an easy transition and decent first impression to socketed gear.
    • Rare quality Essences are not as easy to acquire, but still provide an upgrade over Uncommon quality Essences and are potential non-raid instance rewards -- but at the same time, even if they are not too much of an upgrade, they are still a vital ingredient in acquiring the best Essences in the game and therefore have greater value.
    • Incomparable quality Essences are even less common, but having the possibility of being acquired both through crafting and other "end-game" means such as faction rewards (ie. the Gem Boxes from Dol Amroth) puts their value somewhere between Rare and Epic quality Essences -- if the price is too high for the Epic variety, then Incomparable Essences are still a viable alternative.
    • Epic quality Essences, since they have the same stat strength as Incomparable Essences with the addition of a minor secondary stat, don't outclass them by too much. On the other hand, they are the only Essences in the game with more than one stat on them, and require both the ultra-rare Universal Solvent drop and a critical success on a single-use recipe. That puts their potential value above every other Essence quality, and perhaps they will make a good Challenge reward for future raid instance additions (though not pre-existing ones like Helegrod).


    One last thing: given how rare the drop chance of Universal Solvent happens to be, I think the Essence crafting recipes should not have an option to substitute ingredient packs -- even though this makes them Bound to Account, these recipes strike me as a sort of end-game for crafters, and having such an option which removes the need for Universal Solvent takes away all the effort necessary. Getting all the reputation and crafting experience necessary to acquire the potential chance for Epic quality Essences is probably a lot easier than acquiring the Universal Solvent necessary to even craft the recipe.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKCrichton View Post
    Build 2 introduced the level 100 crafted recipes for essences. Sadly these requires each craft to make a non crit version of a specific Fangorn item.

    This means that not only do you have to obtain 25 Dol Amroth Iron Coins to get the single use Essence recipe. You also have to get the Universal Solvent to drop off a mob or buy it from the store. Now you have to grind 100 Fangorn Leaves to buy another single use recipe to make your crafted essence.

    I'm sorry but this is totally and completely evil to do. Everyone has complained about the Fangorn barter costs since U13 was in beta testing and they are still at the same ungodly prices. Now we are being forced to grind these out to buy bound reputation required recipes to make the new essences.

    The Essenece recipes are nice and aren't bound or reputation gated to use. But to force Fangorn on us makes it so only those with 95+ crafters are going to be able to grind out and obtain these to do...

    Turbine you need to do 2 things. Fix the Fangorn rep barter prices to be reasonable and remove the Fangorn Item requirement from the Essence recipes!
    Not to mention that effectively gates the recipes to the purchase of HD...
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  9. #9
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    Since Universal Solvent seems be able to be used at future socketed gears (similar to store-bought LI scroll which can be used at all level), I wonder why not let lv100 mob drops solvent that can only use on lv100 gear (called it "Solvent of West Gondor", then we can have "Solvent of East Gondor" at lv105 and so on). The Universal Solvent should act as a replacement of Universal Ingredent Pack bought from store when crafting essences, but only able to create bound-to-account essences.

  10. #10
    Frankly I am not concerned about healing, I want to see the debuff situation looked at. Remove the debuff overwriting, give us access to a lightning skill that has less than 15s cooldown and I will stop baying for the blood of dev to appease the lm gods of yesteryear.


    That and a boost to LM CC, we are supposed to be a cc class, now it seems that Yellow Line Lms are the poor ######## no one likes any more...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKH View Post
    Since Universal Solvent seems be able to be used at future socketed gears (similar to store-bought LI scroll which can be used at all level), I wonder why not let lv100 mob drops solvent that can only use on lv100 gear (called it "Solvent of West Gondor", then we can have "Solvent of East Gondor" at lv105 and so on). The Universal Solvent should act as a replacement of Universal Ingredent Pack bought from store when crafting essences, but only able to create bound-to-account essences.
    Solvents are like Legendary Fragments and Emerald Shards mixed together.

  12. #12

    Thumbs down

    Crafting in general has been ruined for me and my friends for quite a while due to all the gating of things behind a rep wall. We used to have fun gathering up mats and didn't mind waiting to get enough random landscape drops of rare items to complete some of the better recipes. But when the game started to require us to do a mind numbing grind to make anything worthwhile most of us gave up crafting completely. I still use the recipes that turn raw components into shaving and back again just to level up, but I never use crafting to make anything anymore. It used to be fun to make stuff for people, but I have a life and a job and can't spend the hours and hours needed to get just one recipe let alone the components for it.

  13. #13
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    I mostly agree with others on this subject matter. In a way I can understand that being able to pick which essence you get to craft has to be 'difficult', but as it stands it is frankly a little bit too troublesome. Just having them as single use and needing this universal solvent would be enough, surely? Seeing as the solvent is store only or a rare mob drop? It's starting to look like this gear system is going to be a bit of a pain in the behind, much like the LI system. Of course, we'll have to do it all again when lvl 105 and beyond comes as well!

    This layered on top of the fact that IMHO at the moment as the game stands, there is little point or need for this socketed gear in the first place; much like first age weapons. I'm not knocking the concept of the socket gear, just that it isn't going to help you beat some content that you would have failed at without. We'll still be having guards, and others, soloing group instances in regular 'old school' teals - I'm one of them, and in lvl 95 gear at instance lvl 100!!

    Sadly it looks that in its current implementation I will bow out of this system; in fact it's highly likely that my lvl 95 toons will get to 100, gear up in teals from scaling 3/6 mans, get some rewards from Dol Amroth, complete the end game deeds (if my server unlocks the 2 spaces) then await lvl 105.

    This end game is too grindy for me, and with few new challenging places to use any of the rewards. I'm sorry I feel this way, honestly

  14. #14
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    If equipment really needs to be a requirement in crafting these essences, I think it's fine to do so. But I would request that critted or non-critted could be used, as well as all of that tier's associated item. If a Tailor for example can make a power-giving essence, it should take the Solvent, but also any of the crafted (critted or non) leather hats from that tier. This would be a lot of work and would need multi-input recipes, but gating it how it is is very bad. This was supposed to be less of a grind than LIs, and now it's almost looking like more.
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    I haven't been able to check this in detail on Bullroarer, but from the posts here I indeed fear this could become indeed far too grindy to be worthwhile, especially considering the Fangorn items added as requirement.

    I skipped the Entwood completely on all my 95s because it just felt like a completely redundant, boring zone with no purpose whatsoever.
    However, I have maxed guild rep so I can still craft the crit-versions of the items in question.
    I'd request at the very least to have those be usable as components as well so we are not forced to go through the Entwood grind in addition to everything else from U14.

    Please give us choice, do not force us to take the path that's the least fun.
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  16. #16
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    I don't have a big problem with using crafted items as a component for the essences. But a single-use recipe from Fangorn (which is already a horrible grind at a whopping 100 leaves apiece) that we have to NOT crit on seems way excessive. These essence recipes are already single-use and require these new solvent thingies as well. Frankly I like Galuhad's suggestion of using a purple-tier essence instead of a Fangorn oneshot. This would give the purple essences some value (because in all seriousness, most folks are going to want the blue, just like in current "end-game" loot scenarios where the purples are mostly vendor trash) and still makes sense from a resources standpoint, without the requirement of a lucky non-crit on a recipe that takes over a week to grind out.

    But this current iteration? If this goes live as is, I'm opting out of essences altogether. I'd rather spend the increasingly limited time I have ingame doing fun things like running instances, going to the Moors and playing on my Moria-capped char than grinding out leaves.

  17. #17
    My earlier post was meant for another thread Anyway, I do believe that it seems a little hollow to make the crafting requirements for essences so rediculously high. I know that if the requirement to do fangorn (something I opted out of doing entirely) goes live than it is quite likely I will avoid any and all crafted essences. This is a simple cost benefit analysis for me, it is not worth the cost in time for a benefit I can probably get through soloing 6 man content.

  18. #18
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    People keep asking in other threads for details about essence crafting but aren't bothering to actually look at this existing thread. So I'm bumping it up and adding some detail to it to spell it out exactly for people.

    Level 100 Essence recipes are on the Dol Amroth reputation barter npc at the SW corner of the Court of the Fount.

    These are the recipes that exist.


    (Images obtained from Galuhad's Socketed Armour and Essence Guide) https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...r-and-Essences

    Right now the components needed are as follows.
    Universal Solvent (This is found in the store and is a world drop off mobs)
    A Fangorn crafted item specific to the crafting profession. It must be a non crit version. (We are hoping this is a place holder item and is what most of this thead is us talking about)
    The rest of the materials are specific to the crafting profession and are simply the normal Tier 9 crafting materials of hides, ingots, etc.
    The crit item is the normal Tier 9 crit item for that crafting profession.

    The Teal Essences are the normal versions and the Gold Essences are the crit version.
    Last edited by Kehleyr; Jun 24 2014 at 11:05 AM.

  19. #19
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    Oh good grief.

    That Fanghorn item requirement has to be a joke right?

  20. #20
    If I use Universal Solvent will it erase slotted Essences or give them back to me?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrisengarmo View Post
    If I use Universal Solvent will it erase slotted Essences or give them back to me?
    Universal Solvent is used for the crafting of essences. If you want to unslot all of your essences form a piece of gear you need to be an Essence Removal Scroll(I believe thats what its called) from the store.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by PKCrichton View Post
    Universal Solvent is used for the crafting of essences. If you want to unslot all of your essences form a piece of gear you need to be an Essence Removal Scroll(I believe thats what its called) from the store.
    Sorry for misunderstanding, so you will have them back?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrisengarmo View Post
    Sorry for misunderstanding, so you will have them back?
    If you use a removal scroll you should get them all back. If you don't bug it.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Radbug View Post
    Oh good grief.

    That Fanghorn item requirement has to be a joke right?
    Very bad indeed. If you want to be in all gold you have to craft 7armour*5= 35 essences (50% wont crit so its 70) if you want both DPS/heal and tank 140! per char, and thats only if this system covers armour. For teal version 7*4=28 DPS/heal and tank 56!

    There could be a solution it can make also LI system easier. There wont be any tiers at LIs, if you slot a legacy it will be automatically at max tier. Empowerments will become obsolete instead of them there will be "empowerment" for crafting Essences = Universal Solvent! To craft gold Essence you will need only mats and Universal Solvent. It's not a bad idea, is it?

    Please do not push us back into Fangorn

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrisengarmo View Post
    Very bad indeed. If you want to be in all gold you have to craft 7armour*5= 35 essences (50% wont crit so its 70) if you want both DPS/heal and tank 140! per char, and thats only if this system covers armour. For teal version 7*4=28 DPS/heal and tank 56!

    There could be a solution it can make also LI system easier. There wont be any tiers at LIs, if you slot a legacy it will be automatically at max tier. Empowerments will become obsolete instead of them there will be "empowerment" for crafting Essences = Universal Solvent! To craft gold Essence you will need only mats and Universal Solvent. It's not a bad idea, is it?

    Please do not push us back into Fangorn
    If I have to grind fangorn leaves to use this new system then I'll simply choose not to. The Endwood is some of the poorest implemented content I've seen in any video game.

 

 
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