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Thread: Lack of groups

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    The majority of people's problems with GLFF lies not in the trolling/bad language/inappropriate language (not to say this stuff isn't in there), but that the majority of chat in glff tends to be mindless drivel and people talking about things that have next to nothing to do with the game, but aren't particularly 'offensive' topics. As such, I don't see how a moderated version of glff (presumably removing chat that violates ToS) will significantly change the content of the channel.
    The way I understand it. This new "World" channel is considered an official channel, thus, qualifies as a channel the moderators can control more than a private channel. Therefore, they have the authority to stem the tide of a variety of spam-type chatter. Whether or not the GMs are prepared to handle the inevitable task of having to reign in certain people... I guess that remains to be seen.
    I suspect that, initially, the new channel will probably see a high amount of chatter of various forms. But, after a while, the channel will find its "niche" just like very other channel does. So, we will have to wait and see what "niche" the new channel actually fills before Turbine decides to give us additional channels. For some servers, one channel may be enough - for others additional channels may be needed. At this point, it is probably wise to test the waters with 1 channel.

    If nothing else... this channel may more noticeably reveal to everyone who the "trolls" are on your server who are worth ignoring... and may lead to people wanting a bigger ignore list.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbylobs View Post
    They will end up with more channels than players if they go down that route.

    I think they are ignoring the underlying problem here, people havent stopped grouping because they find it hard to form a group, there isnt some untapped army of people lurking in the shadows just hoping to be asked to come out and play.

    The problem is that the decent group content is old and tired and no fun with the new class systems and balance issues, the new stuff (BBs) are awful, dont take into account your class, and all of the above are finally put to the sword thanks to the horrible RNG system we have.

    Making a new world channel isnt going to solve any of those problems, all it will create is a massive channel of people not talking to each other, still full of kids arguing about the moors, still full of people trying to sell stuff, swiftly followed by loads of people telling them they are ripping people off no matter what price they ask, still full of live commentary from H3adshotz spar against NAZTYBoi at bree south gate, still full of all that inane nonsense and still no-one wanting to join groups because there isnt anything worth while doing once you form a group.

    At least there will be somewhere uniform for people to go and complain that x,y,z ninja'd their flower patch, or announce to the world that someones shrew is blocking their view, you know the real issues that exist these days. Just think of all the attention there will be for the players who need to announce their every log on/ log off/alt swap or just like giving complete strangers updates on their level and location, instead of just 20 or 30 people who couldnt care less about that, they will now have 50-60 people who couldnt care less.

    world chat channel = revitalised grouping? please, not a chance.
    Actually, I think that the new world channel will be a step in enticing more people to at least attempt to group. As I opined to some friends... I believe part of the problem with the disparity in grouping is the fact that there is a large number of people who have never really bothered to group - let alone raid. Why? Because there has never really been a good way to connect everyone on the server.

    Instance Finder was tried... and, as is... is a dud. Look at all the complaints about people who use it but spend far too long in the queue to no avail. Look at all the newer folks who probably have no clue that GLFF or other global channels exist.

    My point is... there is a chunk of the population that lacks an "on ramp" to entice them to even be interested... because there is no universal method of communication that they are likely to see.

    Let's take a look at that oft-used quote from Sapience about "raiders/PvPers are less than 10% of the population". What if that number is so low because the other folks just aren't "plugged in" to the various methods raiders use to form raids? If you don't know where/how to find groups... how will you know groups are forming to join? I don't know about you, but I rarely (if ever) see the GLFF channel being advertized. I know of more people who actively avoid that channel than who ask if such a channel even exists.

    Putting the quality/amount of group content aside for a moment... a good step toward improving/growing interest in grouping might be to give people a channel that connects them wherever they are on the server... and now that those people *know* about the instances LOTRO has... and are showing a genuine interest in doing more of them... I would think that gives Turbine more reason to invest in that kind of content.

    At least... that would be my desired result of a global channel.
    Dagranhad - Burglar | Aldgarea - Loremaster | Barathrothir - Hunter | Golladhar - Captain

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by bobbylobs View Post
    They will end up with more channels than players if they go down that route.

    I think they are ignoring the underlying problem here, people havent stopped grouping because they find it hard to form a group, there isnt some untapped army of people lurking in the shadows just hoping to be asked to come out and play.

    The problem is that the decent group content is old and tired and no fun with the new class systems and balance issues, the new stuff (BBs) are awful, dont take into account your class, and all of the above are finally put to the sword thanks to the horrible RNG system we have.

    Making a new world channel isnt going to solve any of those problems, all it will create is a massive channel of people not talking to each other, still full of kids arguing about the moors, still full of people trying to sell stuff, swiftly followed by loads of people telling them they are ripping people off no matter what price they ask, still full of live commentary from H3adshotz spar against NAZTYBoi at bree south gate, still full of all that inane nonsense and still no-one wanting to join groups because there isnt anything worth while doing once you form a group.

    At least there will be somewhere uniform for people to go and complain that x,y,z ninja'd their flower patch, or announce to the world that someones shrew is blocking their view, you know the real issues that exist these days. Just think of all the attention there will be for the players who need to announce their every log on/ log off/alt swap or just like giving complete strangers updates on their level and location, instead of just 20 or 30 people who couldnt care less about that, they will now have 50-60 people who couldnt care less.

    world chat channel = revitalised grouping? please, not a chance.
    Ok, Withywindle 7:21 PM GMT. 273 non anom, 127 in Globallff
    That means less than half of the people online are in globallff. I asked my kin with 19 people on, 9 were in global, 2 had heard about it but didnt want to join, and 8 had never heard of it and I got to join. 4 of those 8 were in Fornost Shadow, meaning they group up to run stuff. Assuming this trend continues, that is a size able portion now going into a channel that forms groups (world)
    Withywindle characters-Caesaran (warden), Dernudan (Lore master)
    Brandywine characters- Dernudan (champion), Denthur (guardian), Delphinianic(captain)

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    So your suggestion to avoid spending hundreds of dollars to play the game the way a particular person wants to, is to play the game for months in a way that a particular person doesn't want to?
    The answer for players on dying servers apparently to avoid spending hundreds getting their 10 toons moved over is starting over from scratch? How many years exactly would that take? I guess players should just abandon the characters they have been playing for 7 years? It's not like it's the players fault the servers population is getting lower. Taking away the TP option to transfer was a poor choice. Only real money will move you now. Seems like a nice scheme to make money.

    @Pelerin2014
    You play on Brandywine. It is one of the largest server if not the largest. I would expect you would not have trouble finding other players to play with.
    Some of us play on servers like Gilrain, Firefoot, Elendilmir. I would not call the population there low. Dismal is a better word.


    Any solo players who think it only effects people looking for groups, try buying mats of the AH or getting someone to craft something for you. It effects everyone on the server. Getting 2 extra trait points through group EB's.

    Honestly if you guys want this game to last you would instead be coming to together trying to get Turbine to fix these problems rather than thinking of stupid work arounds that cost players enormous amounts of money/time because a developer is too stubborn to streamline their own game. Or they are making good bank on the character transfers.

    Enough of the ridiculous excuses. It's time to press the developer to make changes so that life becomes bearable for those of us who were unlucky enough to have our server population fall off a cliff.

    I'm sure we will hear it is too tough/expensive from the usual excuse makers. I believe they did it with DDO how is it not possible here?

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    The answer for players on dying servers apparently to avoid spending hundreds getting their 10 toons moved over is starting over from scratch? How many years exactly would that take? I guess players should just abandon the characters they have been playing for 7 years? It's not like it's the players fault the servers population is getting lower.
    That's a distortion of what I was saying. Look, what I care about most is that people who have immediate problems have immediate solutions. There is an immediate solution for those who are unhappy on their current server for whatever reason - not just population. One that needn't involve money if one can't afford it. For some people a more ideal solution than starting from scratch, based on currently available options, would be to transfer a few of their fave toons and reroll the rest. I'm glad I didn't spend the cash for my move, but that's a personal choice each player has to make based on time, money, inclination.

    I don't foresee cross server technology anytime soon in LotRO, but then I'm not a clairvoyant. It could happen. If one would rather wait in misery for that tech to materialize, the option exists. Server merges seem more likely to me, but again, there's been no indication from Turbine that merges are imminent, and besides, merges could anger as many people as they placate. It's a can of worms I am glad I will not have to open/deal with.

    Personally I think players would get more mileage if they advocated for lowered server transfer prices, or even a sale on transfers. That seems infinitely more likely to happen in shorter order than any of the other solutions discussed.

    Like Crossbow, I believe that some servers will see a marked improvement in grouping with the release of the world channel. But I don't see that as a likely solution for those who really are wanting to play with a larger population. For those people, transfers, etc. are the only real option.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    That's a distortion of what I was saying. Look, what I care about most is that people who have immediate problems have immediate solutions. There is an immediate solution for those who are unhappy on their current server for whatever reason - not just population. One that needn't involve money if one can't afford it. For some people a more ideal solution than starting from scratch, based on currently available options, would be to transfer a few of their fave toons and reroll the rest. I'm glad I didn't spend the cash for my move, but that's a personal choice each player has to make based on time, money, inclination.

    I don't foresee cross server technology anytime soon in LotRO, but then I'm not a clairvoyant. It could happen. If one would rather wait in misery for that tech to materialize, the option exists. Server merges seem more likely to me, but again, there's been no indication from Turbine that merges are imminent, and besides, merges could anger as many people as they placate. It's a can of worms I am glad I will not have to open/deal with.

    Personally I think players would get more mileage if they advocated for lowered server transfer prices, or even a sale on transfers. That seems infinitely more likely to happen in shorter order than any of the other solutions discussed.

    Like Crossbow, I believe that some servers will see a marked improvement in grouping with the release of the world channel. But I don't see that as a likely solution for those who really are wanting to play with a larger population. For those people, transfers, etc. are the only real option.
    I try not to misconstrue peoples words. You said : "You don't need to spend a dime to move servers. I started out on Brandywine and had a full cast of toons that had been built up over 4 years, and when I got bored of Brandywine I moved to Landroval. Didn't cost me a penny. I rolled all new toons and within a few months I was back in action. I'm now more established there than I ever was on Brandywine."

    Your suggestion to avoid large fees was to reroll on a new server. Since it worked for you.

    I'm not saying you should be designing solutions for the problem. It is not the players responsibility to fix the game no matter how intertwined they may be with the staff. What most are asking for is server mergers. It help all players on low pop servers not just groupers. How long does the community wait until we start pressing the developer to make these changes? When there are 100 people on a server, 1 person on a server?
    Well I guess we can just continue to sweep the problem under the rug. Apparently the game can continue to lose players.

    It doesn't matter if your server doesn't have the problem or that you don't mind playing on a dead server, this quality of life change can be made by the developer for the good of the overall game.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    The thing is that most of these instances existed *before* Instance Finder existed. The primary means of forming a group was spamming X-Channel for a group. That is why GLFF was created... to help people reach each other across the server... thus making forming groups easier.

    The problem with Instance Finder is that (as you say) there is no way to see who else is looking for instances. Also, Instance Finder does not really differentiate between levels very well. It puts together a random group... and sets the instance for the "lowest common denominator"... which tends to be the opposite of what people want.

    However, given that a good chunk of the population has stopped using GLFF because of the "spam" problems... that's a good chunk of people who might want to join/form groups who are left out of the loop.

    Therefore, I believe Turbine is looking at probably the "easier" route to giving people an easy way to find each other via the new "World" channel. Plus, it is a channel the GMs can moderate more regularly (instead of relying on people to report the worst offenders). So, ideally, trolls and spam will be less frequent (again... *ideally*).
    If the "World" channel works out well... it has been said that Turbine will look into adding additional channels for other purposes.
    Wow, I hope they don't do that. In my view, it's much better to keep it simple.

    I remember when I was new to Lotro, and the game placed me into a bunch of chat channels. Trade, LFF, OOC, Advice, Regional... Why did I need so many? Why was no one using any of them? Are these regional channels or global? Where are all the people? Why does Lotro put me into all these chat channels if they are dead? Is this game alive?
    I went to forums to find out what's going on. How chat works in this game. It wasn't well explained in the game at all. Very poorly done.

    I think World channel is a great and welcome addition. But I think adding a bunch more channels would be a mistake. The chat system should be simple, it should be explained better in-game, dead channels should be removed. If a new player creates his character and gets put into 10 chat channels, imagine his confusion. I definitely can imagine it, because I was confused by 5 silent chats myself.

    Maybe if they remove most of the current dead regional channels and add World Advice channel, that's ok. But just cooking channel after channel next to existing ones would just be poor design.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    I try not to misconstrue peoples words. You said : "You don't need to spend a dime to move servers. I started out on Brandywine and had a full cast of toons that had been built up over 4 years, and when I got bored of Brandywine I moved to Landroval. Didn't cost me a penny. I rolled all new toons and within a few months I was back in action. I'm now more established there than I ever was on Brandywine."

    Your suggestion to avoid large fees was to reroll on a new server. Since it worked for you.
    Actually, this is what I said: "You don't need to spend a dime to move servers. I started out on Brandywine and had a full cast of toons that had been built up over 4 years, and when I got bored of Brandywine I moved to Landroval. Didn't cost me a penny. I rolled all new toons and within a few months I was back in action. I'm now more established there than I ever was on Brandywine. If grouping is a problem for you. I recommend starting out by rolling up a toon on a few different servers and seeing who is around during your play hours, with your similar interests and playstyle. Scout it out a bit, and when you find a server that works for you, stick it out for a bit until you can a] get new toons levelled, or b] can afford to move a few of your favourite toons."

    So you did misconstrue, by ignoring half of what I said and cherry-picking the most potentially controversial aspect of what I was suggesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    How long does the community wait until we start pressing the developer to make these changes?
    People have been pressuring Turbine about merges and/or cross-server grouping options for quite awhile now. It came up a lot during the TTHTI runs, and comes up fairly frequently in various places across these forums. I suspect it will continue to be a big issue for some people, probably even a growing issue as the game continues to age. I think it's possible - even likely - that Turbine will eventually do some server merging. And I think if people genuinely want that, they should continue to advocate for it because that's one of the main ways Turbine will be able to gauge whether it's something players want. I think, though, that it needs to be done in a respectful, collaborative tone and not framed as a snide and insulting rant as these things so often are, or else players aren't going to get very far with it.

    I still think that advocating for a sale on transfers, or a lowering of the fee... I think that's the route I would definitely take if it was an issue I cared a lot about. Offering a sale or lowering the price is something that could be done without a huge investment of time/money on their part, and therefore would be a lot likelier to happen more quickly than the other solutions. It would likely have the added benefit of giving Turbine some insight into how transfer pricing is affecting server populations.

  8. #58
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    Perhaps the confusion comes from the person you quoted talking about moving servers, and you mentioning you moved servers without spending any money. You rolled new toons, which to me isn't moving - it's starting over. To me moving would entail packing up your stuff and taking it with you.

    I have no issue with starting over on another server if you want to be somewhere else. I also don't have an issue with the fees Turbine charges to take a character from one server to the next. But as another poster stated, what if the server you go to falls into the same status as the one you left and now you feel the need to transfer again? For that there is no quick and easy answer.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  9. #59
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    Here is a question I've been holding my tongue on asking... but maybe it is the right time to ask...

    How many of the people who are advocating server merging are doing so because they can't afford (or won't pay) the fee to transfer servers?


    (Yes, I know that is very cynical, but I'll toss it out there.)
    Dagranhad - Burglar | Aldgarea - Loremaster | Barathrothir - Hunter | Golladhar - Captain

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    Perhaps the confusion comes from the person you quoted talking about moving servers, and you mentioning you moved servers without spending any money. You rolled new toons, which to me isn't moving - it's starting over. To me moving would entail packing up your stuff and taking it with you.
    By this point I've explained myself sufficiently that any confusion that did exist should be long gone. If you still don't get what I was saying or why, go back to this comment. And this one. It's not particularly productive to focus on this rather than the actual issue being discussed. The latter is a more interesting discussion anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    I have no issue with starting over on another server if you want to be somewhere else. I also don't have an issue with the fees Turbine charges to take a character from one server to the next. But as another poster stated, what if the server you go to falls into the same status as the one you left and now you feel the need to transfer again? For that there is no quick and easy answer.
    Like I've said a few times now, the best line of approach to deal with this and many of the other server population issues, is probably to advocate for a lower price on transfers, or a sale on transfers. Server population is going to continue to be a source of frustration for some people, and the easier/cheaper it is for people to transfer, the less likely that people will continue to feel trapped on servers they are unhappy with. As Crossbow implied, I think a lot of the complaints about server population probably stem from the cost of transferring, which is prohibitive for some people.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    Here is a question I've been holding my tongue on asking... but maybe it is the right time to ask...

    How many of the people who are advocating server merging are doing so because they can't afford (or won't pay) the fee to transfer servers?


    (Yes, I know that is very cynical, but I'll toss it out there.)
    Oooo.......I've been wondering about that myself. Cynics United! LOL

    Seriously, one of the arguments against server merges thus far has been a relatively simple one: Who loses their name?? (i.e. Let's say I've got a toon on Firefoot named Suriyana. I tried to roll a toon on Vilya of the same name, only to find that it was already taken. Ok, no foul. I figure a different name and move on. But now they've decided to merge FF and Vil. Who gets to keep their name???)

    The other argument is that Turbine has looked at Server pops (using the only real numbers in existence) and determined that the server pops are just fine where they are. (To which the only argument against I've ever seen is: They must be lying about the numbers????)

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    Here is a question I've been holding my tongue on asking... but maybe it is the right time to ask...

    How many of the people who are advocating server merging are doing so because they can't afford (or won't pay) the fee to transfer servers?


    (Yes, I know that is very cynical, but I'll toss it out there.)
    Why is that cynical? Of course the cost of transferring affects people's opinion on the issue--the price is high, especially when looking at multiple characters. I have friends that would love to get from Nimrodel to Landroval to have a chance at grouping, but they can't afford it or don't think it's worth it. If transfers were free, we'd be seeing a much different dynamic.

    But there's also the issue that transferring doesn't transfer everything. If you've played for many years, you have lots of stuff that can't go with you, and I imagine that makes the decision that much more difficult.

    And I really don't think a new channel will fix anything. People who want groups are actively looking for the channels on their server that will help them find groups. I think a moderated glff isn't a bad idea, but I don't see why it would get more groups going. How many people want to pug raids but won't get in glff because it's unmoderated? The real reasons people don't group are the inevitable weighting of characters towards endgame over time (i.e. why people don't get into grouping at lower levels), the increasing ease over time of soloing group content in the lower levels, the lack of appealing rewards from endgame groups, server populations during hours that an individual plays, and silly old stereotypes about who groups and what those people are like (maybe had some truthy instances behind them at some point, but so out of touch with the people who play this game now).

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whart View Post
    And I really don't think a new channel will fix anything. People who want groups are actively looking for the channels on their server that will help them find groups. I think a moderated glff isn't a bad idea, but I don't see why it would get more groups going. How many people want to pug raids but won't get in glff because it's unmoderated? The real reasons people don't group are the inevitable weighting of characters towards endgame over time (i.e. why people don't get into grouping at lower levels), the increasing ease over time of soloing group content in the lower levels, the lack of appealing rewards from endgame groups, server populations during hours that an individual plays, and silly old stereotypes about who groups and what those people are like (maybe had some truthy instances behind them at some point, but so out of touch with the people who play this game now).
    There are a lot of reasons why people don't use GLFF. The moderation of it is only one reason. The bigger reason, to my mind, is that they simply don't know about it. A world channel that everyone is a member of by default is bound to help people find groups, because it will finally make it possible for everyone on a particular server to communicate directly with everyone else. We simply haven't had that option before.

    How much it helps will remain to be seen, but I think it will make a significant difference on some servers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    There are a lot of reasons why people don't use GLFF. The moderation of it is only one reason. The bigger reason, to my mind, is that they simply don't know about it. A world channel that everyone is a member of by default is bound to help people find groups, because it will finally make it possible for everyone on a particular server to communicate directly with everyone else. We simply haven't had that option before.

    How much it helps will remain to be seen, but I think it will make a significant difference on some servers.
    I opt out of glff except when I'm looking for groups, and I will do so with this new channel. I don't want my screen cluttered up with silly non-lff chat, whether it's offensive or not. And I've never met anyone interested in grouping who didn't bother to find out from kinnies or friends or asking on /advice or /ooc or /regional or /lff whether there was a channel to ask for groups across the server. I may be naive, but I would think it kind of odd that someone motivated to interact with other people wouldn't find a way in their years of playing to ask somebody how to do that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whart View Post
    I opt out of glff except when I'm looking for groups, and I will do so with this new channel. I don't want my screen cluttered up with silly non-lff chat, whether it's offensive or not. And I've never met anyone interested in grouping who didn't bother to find out from kinnies or friends or asking on /advice or /ooc or /regional or /lff whether there was a channel to ask for groups across the server. I may be naive, but I would think it kind of odd that someone motivated to interact with other people wouldn't find a way in their years of playing to ask somebody how to do that.
    People are full of surprises. And not everyone has been playing for years. I've seen a lot of new players come in who thought the game was dead because they didn't see much banter in the regional chat. The world channel will help those who want to be engaged with others, to get engaged. It's just another way among many. Not everyone will use it, but many will. I know I will. I've been whining for a channel like this for years. I will likely stay in GLFF as well. Whether it will help grouping, like I said, remains to be seen. But my prediction is that it will help a great deal on many servers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palentian View Post
    Oooo.......I've been wondering about that myself. Cynics United! LOL

    Seriously, one of the arguments against server merges thus far has been a relatively simple one: Who loses their name?? (i.e. Let's say I've got a toon on Firefoot named Suriyana. I tried to roll a toon on Vilya of the same name, only to find that it was already taken. Ok, no foul. I figure a different name and move on. But now they've decided to merge FF and Vil. Who gets to keep their name???)

    The other argument is that Turbine has looked at Server pops (using the only real numbers in existence) and determined that the server pops are just fine where they are. (To which the only argument against I've ever seen is: They must be lying about the numbers????)
    Quote Originally Posted by Whart View Post
    Why is that cynical? Of course the cost of transferring affects people's opinion on the issue--the price is high, especially when looking at multiple characters. I have friends that would love to get from Nimrodel to Landroval to have a chance at grouping, but they can't afford it or don't think it's worth it. If transfers were free, we'd be seeing a much different dynamic.

    But there's also the issue that transferring doesn't transfer everything. If you've played for many years, you have lots of stuff that can't go with you, and I imagine that makes the decision that much more difficult.

    And I really don't think a new channel will fix anything. People who want groups are actively looking for the channels on their server that will help them find groups. I think a moderated glff isn't a bad idea, but I don't see why it would get more groups going. How many people want to pug raids but won't get in glff because it's unmoderated? The real reasons people don't group are the inevitable weighting of characters towards endgame over time (i.e. why people don't get into grouping at lower levels), the increasing ease over time of soloing group content in the lower levels, the lack of appealing rewards from endgame groups, server populations during hours that an individual plays, and silly old stereotypes about who groups and what those people are like (maybe had some truthy instances behind them at some point, but so out of touch with the people who play this game now).
    The reason I asked that question is a very simple answer... I've been in the position (on another game) of having to decide if transferring servers to find what I was interested in was worthwhile. Fortunately, my decision to transfer was worth the results. Granted, it was aided by having stockpiled a couple of free transfers.

    But... how many people keep bringing up server mergers because they can't or won't pay the money for a transfer... in essence, wanting Turbine to do the "transfer" for them for free?

    I know that question probably comes across as being a little... mean?... especially when I [should] know there are people who genuinely can't afford the cost. But, in an age where there seems to be an awful lot of freeloaders and a lack of personal responsibility...

    And, I will bet all the gold on my account(s) that if Turbine opened up *free* transfers for a while... my question would be proven to be true. All the people who are looking at the "grass on the other side of the fence" will have gotten what they wanted.
    Dagranhad - Burglar | Aldgarea - Loremaster | Barathrothir - Hunter | Golladhar - Captain

  17. #67
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    40
    I think the World chat channel is a great idea, because not everyone, especially new players, will know about GLFF - but having a server-wide channel available with others like Region and LFF it will be easier for new players to be a part of the community in-game.
    Pelarin Goldheart of Bree-land, Level 45 Guardian of the Brandywine server.

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,495
    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    People are full of surprises. And not everyone has been playing for years. I've seen a lot of new players come in who thought the game was dead because they didn't see much banter in the regional chat. The world channel will help those who want to be engaged with others, to get engaged. It's just another way among many. Not everyone will use it, but many will. I know I will. I've been whining for a channel like this for years. I will likely stay in GLFF as well. Whether it will help grouping, like I said, remains to be seen. But my prediction is that it will help a great deal on many servers.
    Totally new players, yes. Getting automatically put into a world chat will help someone first starting out to get the lay of the land. Although when I first started I just ran around until I found another player and sent a tell asking how people got together here. But Nimrodel has always seemed a server really focused on reaching out to noobs, so maybe I got lucky when I got a complete description of the chat channels and invited to multiple kins in my first 5 minutes out of starter instance. I just have a hard time believing that someone with multiple toons at 95 has as their only reason for not grouping the fact that they don't know how to ask. Couldn't it be that we're kind of tired of there being no new classic raids, or that the rewards aren't enough to motivate people, or that people are moving to Brandy and Landy and not everyone has the funds to follow?

    Honestly, I hope the new chat is helpful. Adding moderation can't hurt given the garbage we see in glff. But more grouping? I'll wait to see how that works out in practice.

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Posts
    3,090
    Quote Originally Posted by Whart View Post
    Totally new players, yes. Getting automatically put into a world chat will help someone first starting out to get the lay of the land. Although when I first started I just ran around until I found another player and sent a tell asking how people got together here. But Nimrodel has always seemed a server really focused on reaching out to noobs, so maybe I got lucky when I got a complete description of the chat channels and invited to multiple kins in my first 5 minutes out of starter instance. I just have a hard time believing that someone with multiple toons at 95 has as their only reason for not grouping the fact that they don't know how to ask. Couldn't it be that we're kind of tired of there being no new classic raids, or that the rewards aren't enough to motivate people, or that people are moving to Brandy and Landy and not everyone has the funds to follow?

    Honestly, I hope the new chat is helpful. Adding moderation can't hurt given the garbage we see in glff. But more grouping? I'll wait to see how that works out in practice.
    There are definitely 95s who don't know about GLFF - I've met some, to my amazement - but at end game it's more likely that they dislike GLFF or have heard about its bad reputation, or else they are in an active kin and feel no need to use it. A well moderated (and that remains to be seen as well) world channel has potential. My fingers are crossed.

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,495
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    The reason I asked that question is a very simple answer... I've been in the position (on another game) of having to decide if transferring servers to find what I was interested in was worthwhile. Fortunately, my decision to transfer was worth the results. Granted, it was aided by having stockpiled a couple of free transfers.

    But... how many people keep bringing up server mergers because they can't or won't pay the money for a transfer... in essence, wanting Turbine to do the "transfer" for them for free?

    I know that question probably comes across as being a little... mean?... especially when I [should] know there are people who genuinely can't afford the cost. But, in an age where there seems to be an awful lot of freeloaders and a lack of personal responsibility...

    And, I will bet all the gold on my account(s) that if Turbine opened up *free* transfers for a while... my question would be proven to be true. All the people who are looking at the "grass on the other side of the fence" will have gotten what they wanted.
    So people who are playing a game for free and realize that the recommended server that they signed up for without any other knowledge doesn't have the kind of community they are interested in (whether it's rp or grouping or crafting/trading or whatever) and don't want to (or can't) spend cash on moving somewhere else are 'freeloaders and lack responsibility'?

    I thought for a minute that you were getting at the idea that current price might be a barrier to the movement we need to get a good balance of play styles and play times across servers. But instead it sounds like you really want to say that people should fork over cash or they are bad people and don't belong here.

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    Here is a question I've been holding my tongue on asking... but maybe it is the right time to ask...

    How many of the people who are advocating server merging are doing so because they can't afford (or won't pay) the fee to transfer servers?


    (Yes, I know that is very cynical, but I'll toss it out there.)
    I support it because it seems like a common sense thing to me. I'm from Brandywine, so there's really nowhere left to transfer. Brandywine is as good as it gets, which isn't to say that it's great. It has declined significantly over the last year, and I don't see a reason to think that this decline will stop. It might get delayed temporarily by updates but the trend is clear.

    The game is old, its population has been shrinking. Mergers eventually happen to all old games that stay around. Unless Lotro just shuts down in a couple years, mergers will happen. I'm not really "advocating" it, I think it's inevitable unless the plan is to just shut it down at some point in the foreseeable future.

    And I'm sure lots of people from small servers don't want to pay or can't afford transfer fees. It's not so cheap, it's a multi-month subsription price just to transfer 1 character when most people have multiple characters.

  22. #72
    Someone posited that the /world channel should divert a lot of the idle chat that fills up /glff now. This should make /glff more attractive for group forming than it is now.
    I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. ~ Faramir

    Undo the U12 class changes. The trait trees were, are, and will always be a bad idea.
    Maedhric 100 Captain, Nunion 93 Champion, Taraviel 85 Minstrel, etc...

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    Here is a question I've been holding my tongue on asking... but maybe it is the right time to ask...

    How many of the people who are advocating server merging are doing so because they can't afford (or won't pay) the fee to transfer servers?


    (Yes, I know that is very cynical, but I'll toss it out there.)
    I'm sure there is some of that. But the cost of transferring characters isn't the only cost. It's also the cost of leaving friends behind. I think these players just want their server to have more players to play with.
    I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. ~ Faramir

    Undo the U12 class changes. The trait trees were, are, and will always be a bad idea.
    Maedhric 100 Captain, Nunion 93 Champion, Taraviel 85 Minstrel, etc...

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    4,345
    Quote Originally Posted by dietlbomb View Post
    I'm sure there is some of that. But the cost of transferring characters isn't the only cost. It's also the cost of leaving friends behind. I think these players just want their server to have more players to play with.
    I think for me this is the biggest thing. I like where I am because that's where the people I know are. That's where the characters I "grew up" with are, including those on GLFF. They're familiar, they're comfortable (even the trolls), and I wouldn't want to leave them behind.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    GLADDEN SERVER
    Moochy, 105 Minstrel R10

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Everywhere
    Posts
    1,693
    Quote Originally Posted by Whart View Post
    So people who are playing a game for free and realize that the recommended server that they signed up for without any other knowledge doesn't have the kind of community they are interested in (whether it's rp or grouping or crafting/trading or whatever) and don't want to (or can't) spend cash on moving somewhere else are 'freeloaders and lack responsibility'?

    I thought for a minute that you were getting at the idea that current price might be a barrier to the movement we need to get a good balance of play styles and play times across servers. But instead it sounds like you really want to say that people should fork over cash or they are bad people and don't belong here.
    Nowhere did I suggest what you have said. What you interpreted isn't even close.

    I said that I am willing to bet there are a good number of people clamoring for "server mergers" who, instead, would be satisfied to transfer servers. But, they can't or won't. So, they have taken the tactic of advocating Turbine to merge servers... which would effectively be free server transfers.

    If people are really that unhappy with the server(s) they are currently on, server transfers OR creating new characters on another server are your options. Turbine has stated multiple times that there are no plans for server mergers, at all. So, the continued campaign for it makes me wonder if there isn't some alternate motive like the one I suggested.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geldeger View Post
    I support it because it seems like a common sense thing to me. I'm from Brandywine, so there's really nowhere left to transfer. Brandywine is as good as it gets, which isn't to say that it's great. It has declined significantly over the last year, and I don't see a reason to think that this decline will stop. It might get delayed temporarily by updates but the trend is clear.

    The game is old, its population has been shrinking. Mergers eventually happen to all old games that stay around. Unless Lotro just shuts down in a couple years, mergers will happen. I'm not really "advocating" it, I think it's inevitable unless the plan is to just shut it down at some point in the foreseeable future.

    And I'm sure lots of people from small servers don't want to pay or can't afford transfer fees. It's not so cheap, it's a multi-month subsription price just to transfer 1 character when most people have multiple characters.



    Quote Originally Posted by dietlbomb View Post
    I'm sure there is some of that. But the cost of transferring characters isn't the only cost. It's also the cost of leaving friends behind. I think these players just want their server to have more players to play with.
    In terms of server mergers or transfers... the same issues exist either way. It would cost money to do so. I highly doubt server mergers would be as low cost as people think. There just isn't anything free.

    Also, server mergers would cause huge headaches for the player base just on the basis of all the details that would have to be taken care of. Who merges where? Who loses their kinships? Who loses their friends? Who loses all the stuff they've accumulated over the years that can't be replaced easily? What about names - the names they've chosen have some significance to each person.

    People like to act as if server mergers would be any easier than server transfers. If transferring 1 character is a hassle, imagine the hassle of having to essentially "transfer" a lot of other characters... entire communities who have built up an identity over 7 years will be lost.
    Dagranhad - Burglar | Aldgarea - Loremaster | Barathrothir - Hunter | Golladhar - Captain

 

 
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