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Thread: Lack of groups

  1. #26
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    Most PUGs you can see in GLFF are no longer "PUGs", most of them (if not all) know each other and are the same people every night. So saying those are "PUGs" in servers with <100 players, where probably less than 50 do group content, is an insult for others intelligence.

    I agree that a cross world platform would make things easier.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by djheydt View Post
    Dirk, your words are pearls. My experience with PUGs, across
    fifteen years and several games, have been almost uniformly
    unpleasant. Part of this is because I will go on making
    healer characters such as Minstrels and LMs, and the people I
    group with just do not understand that I am squishy and can't
    defend myself against the mobs that they just brush away with
    the heel of their hand (mace, sword, halberd, ....).

    So I solo or duo and make sure that whatever I'm doing is
    several levels below my character's level, so that I have a decent
    chance of coming out of it alive. I do not need fellows who charge
    ahead so enthusiastically that they don't realize something's
    sneaking up behind me until it's too late.
    Answer is - let your group know when there are mobs on you and if they don't get 'em off you asap, let 'em all die. When they complain, tell them why. They won't do it again, believe me. If you lead the group ( and even if you don't), you can control the pace of the event, so never be afraid to dig your heels in and scream STOP! Refuse to move on until everyone stops and listens. If they don't like it, you have the option of leaving the group. Rude perhaps, but effective when they suddenly lose their healer/CC. *giggles* I actually made a very good friend from an encounter like that trying to run GS one day. Also, consider rolling a non healer class so you can experience things from the other side of the coin. Good luck, I really hope you won't give up on grouping, it can be chaotic, but also a lot of fun. Win, lose, learn together and most of all, have fun.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    I regularly group up, I regularly PUG, and I regularly have a great time with people in-game. Might be a good time for you to find a new server or a kin to help with your enjoyment of the game.
    Why should I have to spend excess of $200.00 dollars just to be able to group? Then what happens six months from now when the server I choose starts to fail, time to move again? It makes no sense to punish the customer from lack of poor design running players off.

    I am sure nothing will ever be done about this, but it would be nice if they would at least acknowledge and let us know. I know a lot of people that have already left over the lack of groups; would be easier for them to market the game (One year VIP for 70$) with some fixes to the grouping.

    It really does make me sick to my stomach that the game I have been playing, and loved for so many years is at this crossroad.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Linnier View Post
    It makes no sense to punish the customer from lack of poor design running players off.
    Design of a game that's been out as long as LOTRO isn't necessarily the reason people run off. SWTOR, Guild Wars 2, Rift, Elder Scrolls Online being released and big updates to EVE Online tend to contribute to a dwindling population.

    And some people just get bored with playing MMOs. I usually have to take a long break every once in awhile.

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Linnier View Post
    Why should I have to spend excess of $200.00 dollars just to be able to group? Then what happens six months from now when the server I choose starts to fail, time to move again? It makes no sense to punish the customer from lack of poor design running players off.

    I am sure nothing will ever be done about this, but it would be nice if they would at least acknowledge and let us know. I know a lot of people that have already left over the lack of groups; would be easier for them to market the game (One year VIP for 70$) with some fixes to the grouping.

    It really does make me sick to my stomach that the game I have been playing, and loved for so many years is at this crossroad.
    They are adding a new global chat channel this summer that everyone is automatically put into. This will make grouping up much easier, because a lot more people will have access to global chat.

    I just asked around in my kin, and we had 23 people on, only 4 of them were in Globallff and I was one of them. Only 5 of the remaining had ever heard of it and 3 of them did not know how to join it. 14 members had never heard of it, and I am sure many more people on different servers and in different kins have no idea as well.

    This new channel will widen the pool of players that can join the groups, and hopefully fix your problem.
    Withywindle characters-Caesaran (warden), Dernudan (Lore master)
    Brandywine characters- Dernudan (champion), Denthur (guardian), Delphinianic(captain)

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Dernudan View Post
    They are adding a new global chat channel this summer that everyone is automatically put into. This will make grouping up much easier, because a lot more people will have access to global chat.

    I just asked around in my kin, and we had 23 people on, only 4 of them were in Globallff and I was one of them. Only 5 of the remaining had ever heard of it and 3 of them did not know how to join it. 14 members had never heard of it, and I am sure many more people on different servers and in different kins have no idea as well.

    This new channel will widen the pool of players that can join the groups, and hopefully fix your problem.
    Hopefully. I notice this issue on Gladden which is recommended server right now and has lots of new players. 30 something people on glff when I logged on today. But 20+ online in my kinship alone, and hundreds on the server. I imagine the game seems very silent for all these new players who are essentially trying out the game right now. Poor things are probably sitting in the fellowship queue just like I did after I joined the game, and hoping that some group pops up (which never happens).

    That addition is long overdue.

  7. #32
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    When they first came out with the Instance Finder I really hoped that it would facilitate the ease of finding groups for content that I would like to run. However, as we all know by now, that is now how it turned out. I am only mildly-optimistic about the new /world channel -- I think it will be a boon for newer players but on the whole I'm not sure it is going to matter all that much compared to how /glff is now. Most of the "personalities" on GLFF don't really make me want to join their groups. I also think the lower player populations at the moment have a great deal to do with it. There is a variety of content (both scaled and non-scaled) that I would still like to run and complete the deeds for, but at the moment it seems rather a lost cause.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linnier View Post
    Why should I have to spend excess of $200.00 dollars just to be able to group? Then what happens six months from now when the server I choose starts to fail, time to move again?
    You don't need to spend a dime to move servers. I started out on Brandywine and had a full cast of toons that had been built up over 4 years, and when I got bored of Brandywine I moved to Landroval. Didn't cost me a penny. I rolled all new toons and within a few months I was back in action. I'm now more established there than I ever was on Brandywine. If grouping is a problem for you. I recommend starting out by rolling up a toon on a few different servers and seeing who is around during your play hours, with your similar interests and playstyle. Scout it out a bit, and when you find a server that works for you, stick it out for a bit until you can a] get new toons levelled, or b] can afford to move a few of your favourite toons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Linnier View Post
    It makes no sense to punish the customer from lack of poor design running players off.
    If a lack of poor design runs people off, then they have strange standards.

    But seriously, MMO populations fluctuate like crazy. If grouping is really a big deal for you the best thing you can do at this point is find a server that has the right mix for you during the hours you play. But as others have said, the new world channel might help a bit too.

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Octaviane View Post
    It would solve nothing because the game has gone almost completely solo. Those kinships (like my own) who still like to do ALL the content from GB on up are few and far between. In my travels around ME on my main and various alts I see many, many players of all levels who don't belong to a kin. From their perspective it may be because they find no benefit from being in one, prefer to solo, thus have no interest in grouping up, are anti-social, have limited time to play, family, work, school and other commitments. From my own perspective, there is still enough challenge if you want to make it so, like doing content at level, (and not be power leveled through stuff) using xp disablers and just plain exploring.
    Good point, I just remember the good old days when sometimes there were quests you NEEDED to do for the exp before leaving an area, and it was a full fellowship quest. Those were the days. It made completing a fellowship quest feel so satisfying and epic. Those days are gone now. Has this game just become a dying money machine for turbine?

  10. #35
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    I can't say for other servers, but I have had no trouble (as a low-level, new player) finding groups on Brandywine.

    I managed, pretty easily, to get full groups (and on-level) together for the three Great Barrow instances a couple of times.

    I wasn't sure how it would be trying to get groups together for lower level content, but so far it's been great and I hope it stays this way as I level up.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarwathiel View Post
    Good point, I just remember the good old days when sometimes there were quests you NEEDED to do for the exp before leaving an area, and it was a full fellowship quest. Those were the days. It made completing a fellowship quest feel so satisfying and epic. Those days are gone now. Has this game just become a dying money machine for turbine?
    The only problem with quests like that, in my personal experience, is that sometimes it is hard to get people for them. If they are lower level quests, you usually have to resort to asking for help from higher level toons. And most of the time people are too busy. Or they simply don't want to do it because there is nothing in it for them. I'm not saying this happens ALL the time. Just that is has been my personal experience. Though I have also been able to find kind people that don't mind helping out. I think it will depend on the server, for the most part. That's why I liked it that some quests were changed to have a solo AND fellowship option. So you could decide which one you wanted to do. But forcing people to find a group for a quest might not be the best way to go. But that's just my opinion.

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarwathiel View Post
    Good point, I just remember the good old days when sometimes there were quests you NEEDED to do for the exp before leaving an area, and it was a full fellowship quest. Those were the days. It made completing a fellowship quest feel so satisfying and epic. Those days are gone now. Has this game just become a dying money machine for turbine?
    I personally... Hated those full fellowship quests required to get the full experience of a region.
    I never really had trouble finding groups for them, but many people did and others like to solo. These quests completely alienated that faction.
    Withywindle characters-Caesaran (warden), Dernudan (Lore master)
    Brandywine characters- Dernudan (champion), Denthur (guardian), Delphinianic(captain)

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geldeger View Post
    That's part of the issue, they'd essentially have to code the cross-server system for American servers and another one for ex-Euro servers.

    Also, I suspect that it would be too expensive regardless of that issue. It's a massive change so late in the game's life cycle.



    If I liked new group content and thought it was challenging like you do, I would be very annoyed to be on Nimrodel. I would want to be on a bigger server where I would get to do that group content a lot.

    To each his own, everyone has a playstyle and preferences and that's fine. I know there are people who are against merging, and who love big battles or chicken hockey. But I do wonder how big those fractions are. I don't run into them in the game, I only seem to see them on the forums, so I kind of get an impression that it's a vocal forum minority. But I could be wrong of course.
    I'll tell you why I'm not and will not be annoyed by Nimrodel's 'small' population. High populations => high population of jerks. High populations => higher probability of lag.

    It is not the population but the people. I find Nimrodel to be a much nicer place, for me, than Dwarrowdelf. Dwarrowdelf has about 4 times the population. I am in a large and active kin. Stuff gets run when people want to run it. People will drop what they are doing, reasonably often, to run stuff with you. It is a matter of being nice and polite.

    Case in point. I was happily rolling along and I got a nice request for help. Yes, I stopped to help a lower level player get something done. Yes, it was a team instance. I had a nice time and made a friend. I hope he is able to get his small kin to make an alliance with the kin I'm in. I'm not an officer and have no clout whatsoever. Still, character matters and a part of character is being a pleasant person.
    "No sadder words of tongue or pen are the words: 'Might have been'." -- John Greenleaf Whittier
    "Do or do not. There is no try." -- Yoda
    Indeed, in a world and life full of change, the only constant is human nature (A is A, after all :P).
    We old vets need to keep in mind those who come after us.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdq1958 View Post
    I'll tell you why I'm not and will not be annoyed by Nimrodel's 'small' population. High populations => high population of jerks. High populations => higher probability of lag.

    It is not the population but the people. I find Nimrodel to be a much nicer place, for me, than Dwarrowdelf. Dwarrowdelf has about 4 times the population. I am in a large and active kin. Stuff gets run when people want to run it. People will drop what they are doing, reasonably often, to run stuff with you. It is a matter of being nice and polite.

    Case in point. I was happily rolling along and I got a nice request for help. Yes, I stopped to help a lower level player get something done. Yes, it was a team instance. I had a nice time and made a friend. I hope he is able to get his small kin to make an alliance with the kin I'm in. I'm not an officer and have no clout whatsoever. Still, character matters and a part of character is being a pleasant person.
    Nimrodel has always had that quality, even years ago when it had a much larger population. It's not the size of the server but the character of the people there that most affect your experience, and Nimrodel has always been extremely friendly and helpful and willing to fellow with strangers. However, for people who enjoy group content as the majority of their entertainment, a small server will be disappointing in its offerings, no matter how nice the people are. I know plenty of people who have either moved off Nimrodel or left the game entirely for the sole reason that the population was too small to get enough groups for their taste. If Turbine wants to keep group players who have been stranded on small servers they need to make transfers cheaper or free, or come up with some other solution.

  15. #40

    Fix is easy, improve the Instance Finder!

    The new world channel will not help very much, because we already have GlobalLFF. It will only help newbies who do not know about the existence of the GLFF.

    I have stated the solution to this problem on this forum before, only to be ignored by devs:

    FIX THE INSTANCE FINDER to show the waiting queues for each instance. This way every player interested in joining a group can see who else wants to play
    which instance at the moment, and can instantly complete these queues by joining one!

    The reason why noone finds groups is because people pick an instance and use GLFF to look for fellowship members for ONE SPECIFIC instance. This way it takes just too long and nowadays it is likely you will not get a fellowship together at all. If everyone used the GLFF to announce ALL instances they might be interested in, many more groups would succeed in being formed and much faster. This is best done via an improved Instance Finder.

    Instead, Turbine gave us 20(!!!) levels of Rohan to chew on. I have 10 chars, and it is insane how much time they have to spend in Rohan until the epic and landscape quests there are completed.

    Please Turbine, scale all instances, and show waiting queues for each instance in a tree like diagram (the IF already has a basic form of such diagram ) so we can pick a queue and jump right in!

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Alfonsius View Post
    The new world channel will not help very much, because we already have GlobalLFF. It will only help newbies who do not know about the existence of the GLFF.

    I have stated the solution to this problem on this forum before, only to be ignored by devs:

    FIX THE INSTANCE FINDER to show the waiting queues for each instance. This way every player interested in joining a group can see who else wants to play
    which instance at the moment, and can instantly complete these queues by joining one!

    The reason why noone finds groups is because people pick an instance and use GLFF to look for fellowship members for ONE SPECIFIC instance. This way it takes just too long and nowadays it is likely you will not get a fellowship together at all. If everyone used the GLFF to announce ALL instances they might be interested in, many more groups would succeed in being formed and much faster. This is best done via an improved Instance Finder.

    Instead, Turbine gave us 20(!!!) levels of Rohan to chew on. I have 10 chars, and it is insane how much time they have to spend in Rohan until the epic and landscape quests there are completed.

    Please Turbine, scale all instances, and show waiting queues for each instance in a tree like diagram (the IF already has a basic form of such diagram ) so we can pick a queue and jump right in!
    I think you are missing the number of people who just do not onow GLFF exists. There are plenty of those out there with lvl 95 chars who have never heard about it, and these people will be brought into the system.

    As to improving the instance finder, I am all for that.
    Withywindle characters-Caesaran (warden), Dernudan (Lore master)
    Brandywine characters- Dernudan (champion), Denthur (guardian), Delphinianic(captain)

  17. #42
    Even if the /world chat might not affect 95 (100) PUGs a lot, hopefully it does make a real difference for low level PUGs. On-level low level content is the best anyway, in my view.

    And I love grouping with fresh players who get surprised by stuff and make mistakes, and don't just faceroll everything, and they are generally more enthusiastic and social because they haven't done that instance 3500 times before.

    I might have to get back to Gladden for a while and level my alts there. It's the recommended server right now, lots of fresh low levels, and if the /world chat translates into a lot of low level groups, leveling there might be awesome.

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Alfonsius View Post
    The new world channel will not help very much, because we already have GlobalLFF. It will only help newbies who do not know about the existence of the GLFF.

    I have stated the solution to this problem on this forum before, only to be ignored by devs:

    FIX THE INSTANCE FINDER to show the waiting queues for each instance. This way every player interested in joining a group can see who else wants to play
    which instance at the moment, and can instantly complete these queues by joining one!

    The reason why noone finds groups is because people pick an instance and use GLFF to look for fellowship members for ONE SPECIFIC instance. This way it takes just too long and nowadays it is likely you will not get a fellowship together at all. If everyone used the GLFF to announce ALL instances they might be interested in, many more groups would succeed in being formed and much faster. This is best done via an improved Instance Finder.

    Instead, Turbine gave us 20(!!!) levels of Rohan to chew on. I have 10 chars, and it is insane how much time they have to spend in Rohan until the epic and landscape quests there are completed.

    Please Turbine, scale all instances, and show waiting queues for each instance in a tree like diagram (the IF already has a basic form of such diagram ) so we can pick a queue and jump right in!
    I agree 100% on the instance finder. I thought it was great when they first released it then quickly realized it was truly random. I'd wait an hour for a group while groups were forming up just by people "yelling" in regional chat.

    I know about the GLFF on my server (Firefoot) but I rarely have time to pay attention to it. So I'm sure there are others like me that just don't pay attention to it. Which also makes the new channel their making pointless unless there is a better way to alert people to a group forming.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfonsius View Post
    The new world channel will not help very much, because we already have GlobalLFF. It will only help newbies who do not know about the existence of the GLFF.

    I have stated the solution to this problem on this forum before, only to be ignored by devs:

    FIX THE INSTANCE FINDER to show the waiting queues for each instance. This way every player interested in joining a group can see who else wants to play
    which instance at the moment, and can instantly complete these queues by joining one!

    The reason why noone finds groups is because people pick an instance and use GLFF to look for fellowship members for ONE SPECIFIC instance. This way it takes just too long and nowadays it is likely you will not get a fellowship together at all. If everyone used the GLFF to announce ALL instances they might be interested in, many more groups would succeed in being formed and much faster. This is best done via an improved Instance Finder.

    Instead, Turbine gave us 20(!!!) levels of Rohan to chew on. I have 10 chars, and it is insane how much time they have to spend in Rohan until the epic and landscape quests there are completed.

    Please Turbine, scale all instances, and show waiting queues for each instance in a tree like diagram (the IF already has a basic form of such diagram ) so we can pick a queue and jump right in!
    The thing is that most of these instances existed *before* Instance Finder existed. The primary means of forming a group was spamming X-Channel for a group. That is why GLFF was created... to help people reach each other across the server... thus making forming groups easier.

    The problem with Instance Finder is that (as you say) there is no way to see who else is looking for instances. Also, Instance Finder does not really differentiate between levels very well. It puts together a random group... and sets the instance for the "lowest common denominator"... which tends to be the opposite of what people want.

    However, given that a good chunk of the population has stopped using GLFF because of the "spam" problems... that's a good chunk of people who might want to join/form groups who are left out of the loop.

    Therefore, I believe Turbine is looking at probably the "easier" route to giving people an easy way to find each other via the new "World" channel. Plus, it is a channel the GMs can moderate more regularly (instead of relying on people to report the worst offenders). So, ideally, trolls and spam will be less frequent (again... *ideally*).
    If the "World" channel works out well... it has been said that Turbine will look into adding additional channels for other purposes.
    Dagranhad - Burglar | Aldgarea - Loremaster | Barathrothir - Hunter | Golladhar - Captain

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    The thing is that most of these instances existed *before* Instance Finder existed. The primary means of forming a group was spamming X-Channel for a group. That is why GLFF was created... to help people reach each other across the server... thus making forming groups easier.

    The problem with Instance Finder is that (as you say) there is no way to see who else is looking for instances. Also, Instance Finder does not really differentiate between levels very well. It puts together a random group... and sets the instance for the "lowest common denominator"... which tends to be the opposite of what people want.

    However, given that a good chunk of the population has stopped using GLFF because of the "spam" problems... that's a good chunk of people who might want to join/form groups who are left out of the loop.

    Therefore, I believe Turbine is looking at probably the "easier" route to giving people an easy way to find each other via the new "World" channel. Plus, it is a channel the GMs can moderate more regularly (instead of relying on people to report the worst offenders). So, ideally, trolls and spam will be less frequent (again... *ideally*).
    If the "World" channel works out well... it has been said that Turbine will look into adding additional channels for other purposes.
    The majority of people's problems with GLFF lies not in the trolling/bad language/inappropriate language (not to say this stuff isn't in there), but that the majority of chat in glff tends to be mindless drivel and people talking about things that have next to nothing to do with the game, but aren't particularly 'offensive' topics. As such, I don't see how a moderated version of glff (presumably removing chat that violates ToS) will significantly change the content of the channel.

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    If the "World" channel works out well... it has been said that Turbine will look into adding additional channels for other purposes.
    They will end up with more channels than players if they go down that route.

    I think they are ignoring the underlying problem here, people havent stopped grouping because they find it hard to form a group, there isnt some untapped army of people lurking in the shadows just hoping to be asked to come out and play.

    The problem is that the decent group content is old and tired and no fun with the new class systems and balance issues, the new stuff (BBs) are awful, dont take into account your class, and all of the above are finally put to the sword thanks to the horrible RNG system we have.

    Making a new world channel isnt going to solve any of those problems, all it will create is a massive channel of people not talking to each other, still full of kids arguing about the moors, still full of people trying to sell stuff, swiftly followed by loads of people telling them they are ripping people off no matter what price they ask, still full of live commentary from H3adshotz spar against NAZTYBoi at bree south gate, still full of all that inane nonsense and still no-one wanting to join groups because there isnt anything worth while doing once you form a group.

    At least there will be somewhere uniform for people to go and complain that x,y,z ninja'd their flower patch, or announce to the world that someones shrew is blocking their view, you know the real issues that exist these days. Just think of all the attention there will be for the players who need to announce their every log on/ log off/alt swap or just like giving complete strangers updates on their level and location, instead of just 20 or 30 people who couldnt care less about that, they will now have 50-60 people who couldnt care less.

    world chat channel = revitalised grouping? please, not a chance.

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    You don't need to spend a dime to move servers. I started out on Brandywine and had a full cast of toons that had been built up over 4 years, and when I got bored of Brandywine I moved to Landroval. Didn't cost me a penny. I rolled all new toons and within a few months I was back in action. I'm now more established there than I ever was on Brandywine.
    So your suggestion to avoid spending hundreds of dollars to play the game the way a particular person wants to, is to play the game for months in a way that a particular person doesn't want to?

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    So your suggestion to avoid spending hundreds of dollars to play the game the way a particular person wants to, is to play the game for months in a way that a particular person doesn't want to?
    That's a rather strange interpretation of what I just said.

    I make no comments on how or even if the person plays the game, I only point out that it IS possible to transfer servers pretty easily without spending a dime. I myself have done so, and plenty of others have as well. It's not ideal if one is attached to one's toons, but it can be done. I was sure I would eventually want to transfer a couple of my BW toons over to Landroval, but in the end I didn't bother.

  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    That's a rather strange interpretation of what I just said.

    I make no comments on how or even if the person plays the game, I only point out that it IS possible to transfer servers pretty easily without spending a dime. I myself have done so, and plenty of others have as well. It's not ideal if one is attached to one's toons, but it can be done. I was sure I would eventually want to transfer a couple of my BW toons over to Landroval, but in the end I didn't bother.
    Your response was flawed because is assumes that the OP seeks solutions to his alleged problem of having difficulty finding groups due to his server's alleged low population. If you reread the OP, you will see that he simply wants validation of his perspective. There are plenty of other solutions in which I doubt he'd have any interest.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorsock View Post
    Your response was flawed because is assumes that the OP seeks solutions to his alleged problem of having difficulty finding groups due to his server's alleged low population. If you reread the OP, you will see that he simply wants validation of his perspective. There are plenty of other solutions in which I doubt he'd have any interest.
    My response was not to the OP, but to the comment I quoted, where he was saying "why should I spend $200?" My response: "You shouldn't need to."

    Plenty of people have responded here saying they have no issues with getting a group. Unfortunately this is true with any MMO - a player's experience will be hugely influenced by their choice of servers. Server populations also fluctuate and change dramatically over time. Yes, cross server grouping is a potential solution, but an extremely costly one that I'm not going to hold my breath on for LotRO. That leaves existing options, like moving servers. That's just the reality of things.

 

 
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