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Thread: Lack of groups

  1. #76

    yes to 1 new world chat

    I'm all for 1 main chat, but to go about making a zillion more (semi useless) channels to have everyone auto placed into upon login seems rather silly. Example /World /WorldAdvice /WorldTrade at what point would we stop having channels added? GLFF basically is all of those channels rolled into 1 plus all the troll banter/soccer talk/whatever people want to discuss. I think the addition of /World channel is a no brainer and technically the game should have launched with one years ago. Every other MMO I've played has had it's own version except LOTRO. I don't think it's a fix for the lack of groups/things to do on a server with limited population, logic tells us that just because we make a chat channel players will not magically materialize out of thin air(pixels?). As for low population servers I can understand players not looking to leave old friends,groups, everything they've known for so long. A cross server IF (that actually worked) would be a much better alternative to server mergers imho, but I don't see either happening any time soon due to the cost involved. I mean sure a large number of us can jump up and down in forums asking for it, but it is (and always has been) in Turbine's hands. As for transferring and the cost involved, if someone has 10 characters on any one server and wants to relocate everything obviously, it's going to cost more then a life time subscription. Interesting when we look at it from that angle, isn't it.

    All in all I'd say a lower cost on transfers/a bulk option/a sale anything to make it a little easier for players to continue playing the way they enjoy should be looked into.

    After having thought about it, an even better idea would be a brand new area (instanced or not with layering) every single player can map into to group if they chose to do so. Something like this, Anoob enters "Grouping Cluster Map" auto placed into the /World there and can immediately find groups,pugs,new friends to do stuff with. This saves all this hassle of needing transfers,the fear of wasted time/money/transfers,the loss of everything gained on one's Home server,the loss of friends,a unique name on their Home server, etc. Obviously if someone else logs into the "Grouping Cluster Map" with a same name something would have to be attached (ie,Anoob from Brandywhine and Anoob from Elendilmir), since only one name can exist per server it would solve that issue of -1's in the GCM. A further enhancement would be an independent GCM friends list where you can add new friends found there.

    Something to think about anyways.Hopefully a dev has a read might even suggest in suggestions for giggles.
    Last edited by mr_music; Jun 19 2014 at 10:23 PM. Reason: added another suggestion

  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    Nowhere did I suggest what you have said. What you interpreted isn't even close.

    I said that I am willing to bet there are a good number of people clamoring for "server mergers" who, instead, would be satisfied to transfer servers. But, they can't or won't. So, they have taken the tactic of advocating Turbine to merge servers... which would effectively be free server transfers.

    If people are really that unhappy with the server(s) they are currently on, server transfers OR creating new characters on another server are your options. Turbine has stated multiple times that there are no plans for server mergers, at all. So, the continued campaign for it makes me wonder if there isn't some alternate motive like the one I suggested.


    In terms of server mergers or transfers... the same issues exist either way. It would cost money to do so. I highly doubt server mergers would be as low cost as people think. There just isn't anything free.

    Also, server mergers would cause huge headaches for the player base just on the basis of all the details that would have to be taken care of. Who merges where? Who loses their kinships? Who loses their friends? Who loses all the stuff they've accumulated over the years that can't be replaced easily? What about names - the names they've chosen have some significance to each person.

    People like to act as if server mergers would be any easier than server transfers. If transferring 1 character is a hassle, imagine the hassle of having to essentially "transfer" a lot of other characters... entire communities who have built up an identity over 7 years will be lost.
    Of course it costs money. Running a game costs money. Creating a game costs money, solving its issues costs money. I don't see so many people who "like to act" that it's easy. I think people understand these difficulties better than you might want to give them credit for. People perceive a problem (diminishing server populations, lack of groups) and are talking about solutions. It's not a question of it being cheap and easy. It's not a simple problem and there aren't easy solutions.

    Group content and socializing is a big part of an mmo, a bit part of lotro. There are so many activities in the game that can only be enjoyed in a group. If some servers decline to a point where a lot of people have difficulty enjoying that part of the game, then it's a problem worth discussing. Just like lag, or bugs, or anything else that makes it harder for a large part of community to enjoy the game to full extent is worth discussing.

    Whether Turbine thinks it's a high priority issue for them right now or not, is another matter. Just because they stated that they don't have a solution in the near future doesn't mean that people have to stop talking about it. People talk about it because low server populations is a pretty important issue for them. Not because they lack "personal responsibility" or they are "freeloaders." It's quite a condescending point of view. "People keep talking, I think they should stop talking, so there might be something wrong with their personalities."

  3. #78
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    I don't think server mergers would actually help at all. If I was in a smaller server or larger server, I would still tend to keep to my known group of associates. This isn't just my own kin, but it's people I'm familiar with in GLFF, people I've PvP alongside, and folks I know to be good players. When we run groups we fill with our friends before we ever go to GLFF for someone that nobody knows. It's always "does anybody have any friends on, anybody have a kinnie, anybody known an XYZ class" to fill - then we'll take whatever else is out there. I don't do it to be elite or exclusive to others, I do it because that's where my comfort level is. I'm uncomfortable playing with complete strangers. I could be on the biggest server in the world and unless I know the people I still won't group with them.

    I don't think Turbine holds back against server mergers due to money. I think they just don't do it because they don't believe it's a good idea for the game. I know that for me personally I'd hate it. I like Gladden, the size it is, the people it has, and the friends that are left. Every year some leave, and I end up making new ones to go with the ones that stayed. Over the 5-1/2 years I've played there's only 2 people I still have that were here in the beginning. Some left as long as 4 years ago, so you can't blame anything recent. Do I think lack of raids and instances has affected the population and satisfaction? yes, I do. But a server merge won't solve that either.
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kryhavoc99 View Post
    It's the time of year, for one reason. With the warmer weather, more players are off doing other things, some in real life.

    Another part is the fact that there is currently nothing to progress to. Most raiders already have the gear they want, so they don't feel a need to group up right now.

    I suspect you are using GLFF to try to find a group. Just remember, not all players have joined that player created channel and that is what it is...a player created channel. On Vilya, I have seen 90 players online at level 95 but only 63 in the chat channel and they weren't doing much of anything. A lot do stuff in kinships, with friends or just do solo stuff.

    Just be patient. Update 14 will give us World channel that all players will be in at the start. The Dol Amroth instances have some group activities that you would need to do to get the endgame armour.

    I remember last year it was the same way...and the year before...it's the spring/summer lull. It just seems like there is no one on because the chat channels are quiet. It's a perception issue, that's all.
    Well said!
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  5. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Dernudan View Post
    Ok, Withywindle 7:21 PM GMT. 273 non anom, 127 in Globallff
    That means less than half of the people online are in globallff. I asked my kin with 19 people on, 9 were in global, 2 had heard about it but didnt want to join, and 8 had never heard of it and I got to join. 4 of those 8 were in Fornost Shadow, meaning they group up to run stuff. Assuming this trend continues, that is a size able portion now going into a channel that forms groups (world)
    I never said people wouldnt join the channel, of course they will, if you actually read my post you would see that I dont think it will make the slightest difference in group play, yes there will be a few hundred people all in one channell, but those people still wont group because the group content is so poor right now, the reward system is farcical and the class design is 1 dimensional, you could create a channel that all players from all servers are forced onto and that still would not change the content being dire.

    You had 19 people in your kin online and only 4 of those were grouping, do you not tell your kinnies to group up? have you not tried to get them to group together? ofc you have yest they still dont.]

    Just having more people with the ability to talk to each other and group together doesnt mean its going to happen, unless there is actually something worthwhile to do when grouped.

    Imagine a lower league football team the plays dull football, doesnt win much, and has a bigger better team right down the road, they probaly get a couple of 1000 fans for games,while the bigger better team get 10s of 1000s of fans, do you think that building a 60,000 seat stadium is going to generate 58,000 fans? do you think those 58,000 people were just waiting to have that stadium built so they could go? do you think they will no longer care that the match is boring and they have no fun going just because they built the stadium? no thats backwards, you need the team and the football to be worthwhile of attracting 60,000 fans before you build the stadium. Same with grouping in lotro, you need to make new content , a decent progressive loot system and engaging gameplay, BEFORE anyone else will start doing it again.

    NO new players join lotro for group play its by far and away one of the worst MMOs for grouping, there are so many better options than lotro that people who start playing MMOs for grouping go there and not into lotro, that will not change because of a global chat channel. People who come into the game and start getting into raiding will end up leaving and going elsewhere because other games provide better raiding, the raiding kins have died you see them in other games, the players who took in new people and taught them raiding and all its fun aspects have gone they are easily found playing other games, the foundations of decent group play in lotro have been obliterated and group play will never be decent here until they are fixed first.

    I tell every new player in our kin about raiding, I have lower level toons for the sole purpose of joining them in runs , they dont like it, they get bored, they dont want to do it, the new players log on for an hour or so spend 30 mins doing what they want and dont have time for anything else, they are not interested in working through an orthanc or a GB or an OD to unlock it, they only want a high level character to come in and nuke the lot for them so they can finish some quests in there and move on, that will not change with a global chat channel.
    Last edited by bobbylobs; Jun 20 2014 at 06:55 AM.

  6. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by bobbylobs View Post
    I never said people wouldnt join the channel, of course they will, if you actually read my post you would see that I dont think it will make the slightest difference in group play, yes there will be a few hundred people all in one channell, but those people still wont group because the group content is so poor right now, the reward system is farcical and the class design is 1 dimensional, you could create a channel that all players from all servers are forced onto and that still would not change the content being dire.

    You had 19 people in your kin online and only 4 of those were grouping, do you not tell your kinnies to group up? have you not tried to get them to group together? ofc you have yest they still dont.]

    Just having more people with the ability to talk to each other and group together doesnt mean its going to happen, unless there is actually something worthwhile to do when grouped.

    Imagine a lower league football team the plays dull football, doesnt win much, and has a bigger better team right down the road, they probaly get a couple of 1000 fans for games,while the bigger better team get 10s of 1000s of fans, do you think that building a 60,000 seat stadium is going to generate 58,000 fans? do you think those 58,000 people were just waiting to have that stadium built so they could go? do you think they will no longer care that the match is boring and they have no fun going just because they built the stadium? no thats backwards, you need the team and the football to be worthwhile of attracting 60,000 fans before you build the stadium. Same with grouping in lotro, you need to make new content , a decent progressive loot system and engaging gameplay, BEFORE anyone else will start doing it again.

    NO new players join lotro for group play its by far and away one of the worst MMOs for grouping, there are so many better options than lotro that people who start playing MMOs for grouping go there and not into lotro, that will not change because of a global chat channel. People who come into the game and start getting into raiding will end up leaving and going elsewhere because other games provide better raiding, the raiding kins have died you see them in other games, the players who took in new people and taught them raiding and all its fun aspects have gone they are easily found playing other games, the foundations of decent group play in lotro have been obliterated and group play will never be decent here until they are fixed first.

    I tell every new player in our kin about raiding, I have lower level toons for the sole purpose of joining them in runs , they dont like it, they get bored, they dont want to do it, the new players log on for an hour or so spend 30 mins doing what they want and dont have time for anything else, they are not interested in working through an orthanc or a GB or an OD to unlock it, they only want a high level character to come in and nuke the lot for them so they can finish some quests in there and move on, that will not change with a global chat channel.
    1. You might feel like group content sucks in this game, but I do not. If you do not like the game, why do you play?

    2. 4 of the 8 people who joined GLFF were in Fornost, along with 2 others in GLFF. There were in fact 12 people grouped out of 19. 6 in a level 95 fornost, 6 in a level 45 OE. 4 of the 8 guys who had not heared about GLFF were in an instance, meaning they group. People who are not in Global still group, even though they have not "searched out" a global channel.
    Withywindle characters-Caesaran (warden), Dernudan (Lore master)
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  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    I don't think server mergers would actually help at all. If I was in a smaller server or larger server, I would still tend to keep to my known group of associates. This isn't just my own kin, but it's people I'm familiar with in GLFF, people I've PvP alongside, and folks I know to be good players. When we run groups we fill with our friends before we ever go to GLFF for someone that nobody knows. It's always "does anybody have any friends on, anybody have a kinnie, anybody known an XYZ class" to fill - then we'll take whatever else is out there. I don't do it to be elite or exclusive to others, I do it because that's where my comfort level is. I'm uncomfortable playing with complete strangers. I could be on the biggest server in the world and unless I know the people I still won't group with them.
    Interesting. I'm not this way at all. I'm fine grouping with complete strangers. I don't mind PUGs. If my kinship is forming a group to go to one place and I see a PUG on GLFF that wants to go to another place, I will choose based on the instance I want to go to. I won't go to farm the Turtle for 1000th time just because it's a kinship run, I will rather join a PUG to some instance that I don't see alot. In my experience, most people in Lotro are awesome, and I don't feel any discomfort when grouping with strangers.

    For me, I'm sure that a server merger would directly translate into an increase of grouping opportunities. For someone who only groups with friends and friends' friends, it might not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    I don't think Turbine holds back against server mergers due to money. I think they just don't do it because they don't believe it's a good idea for the game. I know that for me personally I'd hate it. I like Gladden, the size it is, the people it has, and the friends that are left. Every year some leave, and I end up making new ones to go with the ones that stayed. Over the 5-1/2 years I've played there's only 2 people I still have that were here in the beginning. Some left as long as 4 years ago, so you can't blame anything recent. Do I think lack of raids and instances has affected the population and satisfaction? yes, I do. But a server merge won't solve that either.
    I'll go a bit off topic, but Gladden is a pretty cool place to be right now because of recommended status. Lower level areas are swarming with people, I saw around 10 just in Staddle the other day.

    I do like the Gladden community as well, or at least I did when it used to be my main server. Right now only one person I knew from back then is still active, and he logs on so rarely that I haven't talked to him in months.

    I do wonder how Gladden is going to look in a month or so when the /world chat is introduced. All those new people are kind of invisible right now because very few of them have discovered GLFF. Unless you hang around Bree and other low level areas, or your kinship heavily recruits low level people, you might not notice how many there are. The /world chat will make them much more visible, and they are the overwhelming majority of Gladden's population right now.
    Last edited by Geldeger; Jun 20 2014 at 10:36 AM.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geldeger View Post
    Of course it costs money. Running a game costs money. Creating a game costs money, solving its issues costs money. I don't see so many people who "like to act" that it's easy. I think people understand these difficulties better than you might want to give them credit for. People perceive a problem (diminishing server populations, lack of groups) and are talking about solutions. It's not a question of it being cheap and easy. It's not a simple problem and there aren't easy solutions.

    Group content and socializing is a big part of an mmo, a bit part of lotro. There are so many activities in the game that can only be enjoyed in a group. If some servers decline to a point where a lot of people have difficulty enjoying that part of the game, then it's a problem worth discussing. Just like lag, or bugs, or anything else that makes it harder for a large part of community to enjoy the game to full extent is worth discussing.

    Whether Turbine thinks it's a high priority issue for them right now or not, is another matter. Just because they stated that they don't have a solution in the near future doesn't mean that people have to stop talking about it. People talk about it because low server populations is a pretty important issue for them. Not because they lack "personal responsibility" or they are "freeloaders." It's quite a condescending point of view. "People keep talking, I think they should stop talking, so there might be something wrong with their personalities."
    The thing, though, is that server mergers will not (and cannot) solve the issues you would be seeking to solve. People talk about "sweeping things under the rug." That is exactly what server mergers would be doing.

    Server mergers would not address the need/want/desire for more grouping or group content. Forcing people into closer quarters does not necessarily mean they would be any more/less willing to group than they do now.

    Server mergers would not address balancing issues... that we all still admit need attention. Yes?

    Server mergers would not fix any bugs people still claim are there. In fact, server mergers would *cause* a whole slew of additional bugs. 1000g I'd bet that there would be more than a few "lost luggage" issues with merging servers (not intended of course).

    Server mergers do not bring to fruition any actual improvements to the game other than falsely inflating server populations and putting people together who may not want to be.

    All "server merging" does is... essentially... kick the can down the road instead of solving the problems people would really rather see fixed.

    The current environment under Rowan's leadership seems to be a time when the developers are in a position to make some genuine improvements to the game that we have been asking for... for a long time. That doesn't mean all our wishes will be granted... but there seems to be a general shift in "attitude" at the top... evidenced by the wealth of information the developers were sharing and feedback they've been willing to receive in all the TTHTI runs and a slew of live streams. How I wish that kind of "openness" was present in previous years!

    Server mergers are not the solution. Server mergers would pretty much spell the end of the game whether or not that is the intention. I do not think people really want to go down that road...
    Dagranhad - Burglar | Aldgarea - Loremaster | Barathrothir - Hunter | Golladhar - Captain

  9. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    The thing, though, is that server mergers will not (and cannot) solve the issues you would be seeking to solve. People talk about "sweeping things under the rug." That is exactly what server mergers would be doing.

    Server mergers would not address the need/want/desire for more grouping or group content. Forcing people into closer quarters does not necessarily mean they would be any more/less willing to group than they do now.


    Server mergers would not address balancing issues... that we all still admit need attention. Yes?

    Server mergers would not fix any bugs people still claim are there. In fact, server mergers would *cause* a whole slew of additional bugs. 1000g I'd bet that there would be more than a few "lost luggage" issues with merging servers (not intended of course).

    Server mergers do not bring to fruition any actual improvements to the game other than falsely inflating server populations and putting people together who may not want to be.

    All "server merging" does is... essentially... kick the can down the road instead of solving the problems people would really rather see fixed.

    The current environment under Rowan's leadership seems to be a time when the developers are in a position to make some genuine improvements to the game that we have been asking for... for a long time. That doesn't mean all our wishes will be granted... but there seems to be a general shift in "attitude" at the top... evidenced by the wealth of information the developers were sharing and feedback they've been willing to receive in all the TTHTI runs and a slew of live streams. How I wish that kind of "openness" was present in previous years!

    Server mergers are not the solution. Server mergers would pretty much spell the end of the game whether or not that is the intention. I do not think people really want to go down that road...
    I don't think that's true. I see many more PUGs on Brandywine (a big server) than I used to see on Gladden (a small server back then) or Snowbourn (an above average server). The trend is obvious. Bigger servers --> more people who want to group online --> easier to get a group together. So I'm sure that merging would help with that.

    Would it solve every problem and return the game to its prime? Of course not, but nothing would.

    There are other problems in the game too, but I think that server shrinking is one of the main issues going forward. I know that devs will have to prioritize certain problems over others, and that their manpower is very limited right now. But I think they will have to place this problem at the top of the list at some point over the next few years. Of course, that's assuming they plan to keep the game alive (like Asheron's Call and such) in the long run, and not shut it down. If the plan is to shut the game down once the player base declines past a certain point, then of course there's no point to spend money on merging servers.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geldeger View Post
    I don't think that's true. I see many more PUGs on Brandywine (a big server) than I used to see on Gladden (a small server back then) or Snowbourn (an above average server). The trend is obvious. Bigger servers --> more people who want to group online --> easier to get a group together. So I'm sure that merging would help with that.

    Would it solve every problem and return the game to its prime? Of course not, but nothing would.

    There are other problems in the game too, but I think that server shrinking is one of the main issues going forward. I know that devs will have to prioritize certain problems over others, and that their manpower is very limited right now. But I think they will have to place this problem at the top of the list at some point over the next few years. Of course, that's assuming they plan to keep the game alive (like Asheron's Call and such) in the long run, and not shut it down. If the plan is to shut the game down once the player base declines past a certain point, then of course there's no point to spend money on merging servers.
    The only reason you see more grouping on the "bigger" servers is because the people who want to group have already been moving together. That problem has already been slowly solving itself. Server mergers would not really solve that problem. All you would be doing is forcing people together... many of whom don't really seem all that interested in grouping regardless of where they are.

    If you want to raise server populations, you need to focus on making improvements (there is a lot that can still be done before even considering mergers) that draws more people in. Server mergers doesn't do that.
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  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    The only reason you see more grouping on the "bigger" servers is because the people who want to group have already been moving together. That problem has already been slowly solving itself. Server mergers would not really solve that problem. All you would be doing is forcing people together... many of whom don't really seem all that interested in grouping regardless of where they are.

    If you want to raise server populations, you need to focus on making improvements (there is a lot that can still be done before even considering mergers) that draws more people in. Server mergers doesn't do that.

    Exactly. Forcing a bunch of solo players together is not going to turn them into group players. Just thinking about being forced to a server that I have no interest in makes me mad.
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  12. #87
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    The only thing server mergers do are headaches.

    If the time comes when servers can't stay open as they are, just pull the plug and call it a journey. It was a good one.
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  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    If you want to raise server populations, you need to focus on making improvements (there is a lot that can still be done before even considering mergers) that draws more people in. Server mergers doesn't do that.
    Obiously, it would be awesome if they managed to boost overall game population siginificantly, but I don't think it's likely.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    The only reason you see more grouping on the "bigger" servers is because the people who want to group have already been moving together. That problem has already been slowly solving itself. Server mergers would not really solve that problem. All you would be doing is forcing people together... many of whom don't really seem all that interested in grouping regardless of where they are.
    I don't think that's the only reason or even the main reason, I think bigger servers have more groups in large part simply because they have more people. There are plenty people who don't like to group in Brandywine too. And there are people on smaller servers who love to group. If servers are merged, they'll simply have more opportunities to do so.

    I think we are moving into a dead-end of sorts, a "he said / she said" territory. Turbine is in a better position to research what their customers like to do than the two of us. I hope they do their research and make the right decision.

    I'm in a decent enough place right now myself. Brandywine is still fairly big, although it's shrinking like every other server. Still, for now, I'm fine with it. A year from now, who knows. But I sympathize with all the people from formerly active servers who aren't happy right now.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    Exactly. Forcing a bunch of solo players together is not going to turn them into group players. Just thinking about being forced to a server that I have no interest in makes me mad.
    So given that you don't want a small number of people from a server with few players to join you via a merger, do you also not want them to join you by transferring or by rerolling? Do you also not want Nimrodel ever to be the recommended server, since that would draw new people there?

    Just trying to understand. I get that there are advantages and disadvantages to any server size, and I also understand the house and name problems that mergers would cause. But players have no control over server population. Any given server at any time could have a large influx or large decrease in population (yes, increases are less likely these days, but all servers have increased and decreased over the years). I've seen lots of posts where you say you like everything on Nimrodel exactly the way it is and you don't want anything to change, but it has changed a lot over the years, and will continue to do so. Are you really saying you hope nobody new comes to your server? Will you still love this game so much if you log on and never see another player? And that it doesn't matter to you that there are people there (forming part of that great Nimrodel community) who are leaving the game because they can't find enough people to play with? Surely you understand how people are feeling who came for a group experience, used to have a satisfying one, and now are faced with reroll or leave. When they choose to leave, that affects the experience of everyone else who enjoys interacting with other players, whether via groups or RP or AH or PvMP, doesn't it?

    That's a lot of questions, but I'm the curious sort.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geldeger View Post
    Obiously, it would be awesome if they managed to boost overall game population siginificantly, but I don't think it's likely.



    I don't think that's the only reason or even the main reason, I think bigger servers have more groups in large part simply because they have more people. There are plenty people who don't like to group in Brandywine too. And there are people on smaller servers who love to group. If servers are merged, they'll simply have more opportunities to do so.

    I think we are moving into a dead-end of sorts, a "he said / she said" territory. Turbine is in a better position to research what their customers like to do than the two of us. I hope they do their research and make the right decision.

    I'm in a decent enough place right now myself. Brandywine is still fairly big, although it's shrinking like every other server. Still, for now, I'm fine with it. A year from now, who knows. But I sympathize with all the people from formerly active servers who aren't happy right now.
    See. There is still the problem of the fact that server merging opens a whole other can of worms. As I said, you would end up forcibly putting people together who (admittedly) don't really care to group anyways. On the flip side, you may end up putting together people who like to group but who may not get along very well. What happens when Server A and Server B merge... and Server A has a higher percentage of "bad apples" than Server B. You have now forced the people from Server B to inherit the problems that Server A has.

    If we are really interested in letting the population "condense", the better move would be to open up *free* transfers. Again, my point stands that I am willing to bet that a good number of those wanting mergers want to move where there are more players like them... but either can't or won't (for variety of reasons). Merging servers would not necessarily grant the intended result. People would move, but maybe not where they want to move. So, in a short while, those same people would still be unhappy because they didn't get to move where they wanted.

    So, again... server mergers would not be the best choice given that the risk of making the situation worse is quite high. The better choices would either be free/cheap transfers... or doing things that serve to grow the overall population.

    For the record... I am not arguing for or against mergers. But, I do believe talk of mergers is far too premature when there is still so much that could be done.
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  16. #91
    Something does need to be done about the difficulty of grouping up, but server mergers are not the answer. There is a plethora of information in this thread and others as to why this is the case.

    What the answer is imo, is plain and simple. Improvements to the grouping system.
    This should come in two parts. Improved accessability to grouping and an improved grouping experience.

    1. The improved accessability would simply make it easier to find group. Right now you pretty much have 2 options, kinship and GLFF. If these do not work, you dont have much else. To get around this we need a global channel that people are automatically put into (happening) that allows people to communicate their run to the entire server. An improved instance finder is also needed. This has already been detailed earlier in the thread.

    2. Improvements to the grouping experience. We need improvements to difficulty, class depth, loot, and threat. Basic mechanics need to be updated to help improve the experience. Epic Battles need improvements to make them entertaing to a larger group (already starting to happen, but they need to continue). And simply new things for groupers to do.

    Something needs to be done about this problem, but server mergers will break more than they fix.
    Last edited by Dernudan; Jun 20 2014 at 09:05 PM. Reason: Grammar and small updates
    Withywindle characters-Caesaran (warden), Dernudan (Lore master)
    Brandywine characters- Dernudan (champion), Denthur (guardian), Delphinianic(captain)

  17. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    For the record... I am not arguing for or against mergers. But, I do believe talk of mergers is far too premature when there is still so much that could be done.
    What do you think is the likelihood that these things that could be done, will be done? Or what do you think is the potential investment requirement to get these other things done compared to server mergers or free xfers?

    Not asking this in the sense of 'insider PC knowledge', but your face value opinion. Do you see a track record established that turbine is prepared to make the necessary moves to encourage grouping?
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  18. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    What do you think is the likelihood that these things that could be done, will be done? Or what do you think is the potential investment requirement to get these other things done compared to server mergers or free xfers?

    Not asking this in the sense of 'insider PC knowledge', but your face value opinion. Do you see a track record established that turbine is prepared to make the necessary moves to encourage grouping?
    This next update which features an area for grouping, several other group quests, a small fellowship instance, lots of major improvements to BBs, a new loot system to replace RNG, a new world chat, and many improvements to classes. That track record.
    Withywindle characters-Caesaran (warden), Dernudan (Lore master)
    Brandywine characters- Dernudan (champion), Denthur (guardian), Delphinianic(captain)

  19. #94
    well if your not willing to server merges at least give people free transfers that are VIP so they can move to a more active server that likes to group up then

  20. #95
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whart View Post
    So given that you don't want a small number of people from a server with few players to join you via a merger, do you also not want them to join you by transferring or by rerolling? Do you also not want Nimrodel ever to be the recommended server, since that would draw new people there?

    Just trying to understand. I get that there are advantages and disadvantages to any server size, and I also understand the house and name problems that mergers would cause. But players have no control over server population. Any given server at any time could have a large influx or large decrease in population (yes, increases are less likely these days, but all servers have increased and decreased over the years). I've seen lots of posts where you say you like everything on Nimrodel exactly the way it is and you don't want anything to change, but it has changed a lot over the years, and will continue to do so. Are you really saying you hope nobody new comes to your server? Will you still love this game so much if you log on and never see another player? And that it doesn't matter to you that there are people there (forming part of that great Nimrodel community) who are leaving the game because they can't find enough people to play with? Surely you understand how people are feeling who came for a group experience, used to have a satisfying one, and now are faced with reroll or leave. When they choose to leave, that affects the experience of everyone else who enjoys interacting with other players, whether via groups or RP or AH or PvMP, doesn't it?

    That's a lot of questions, but I'm the curious sort.

    My point is that I am against server merges of any sort. I don't want to have to deal with possible names changes for all 17 of my characters or the name of my alt kin. Or a problem with my house. What I am trying to say is that I am happy on a small server and I don't want to be forced into a larger population from a server merge.

    Of course I would like more players to come to my server. I would not have name issues with my alts or my kin, or issues with my house.

    But a server merge? Hell no.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
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  21. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    My point is that I am against server merges of any sort. I don't want to have to deal with possible names changes for all 17 of my characters or the name of my alt kin. Or a problem with my house. What I am trying to say is that I am happy on a small server and I don't want to be forced into a larger population from a server merge.

    Of course I would like more players to come to my server. I would not have name issues with my alts or my kin, or issues with my house.

    But a server merge? Hell no.
    then would you have a issue if we were given free transfers to choose a server we would like to go would be my question

  22. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen1981 View Post
    then would you have a issue if we were given free transfers to choose a server we would like to go would be my question
    Im sure she/he would not have an issue with that. However, I am not so sure that those character transfers would be so fre to Turbine.
    Withywindle characters-Caesaran (warden), Dernudan (Lore master)
    Brandywine characters- Dernudan (champion), Denthur (guardian), Delphinianic(captain)

  23. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Dernudan View Post
    Im sure she/he would not have an issue with that. However, I am not so sure that those character transfers would be so fre to Turbine.
    i was just making a point with the statement guess i should of clear that up

  24. #99
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    There's a huge difference between someone going to another server BY CHOICE and opting in to potential issues (name conflicts, not getting the same house, etc), and an entire server of thousands of characters being FORCED to a new server where there WILL be name conflicts, there WILL be housing conflicts, and there WILL be other problems that arise with such a massive move.
    If you give away gold bars, someone will complain they're too heavy.
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  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon_Blackbird View Post
    There's a huge difference between someone going to another server BY CHOICE and opting in to potential issues (name conflicts, not getting the same house, etc), and an entire server of thousands of characters being FORCED to a new server where there WILL be name conflicts, there WILL be housing conflicts, and there WILL be other problems that arise with such a massive move.
    Indeed. Merging servers together in the "traditional" manner is the equivalent of drilling a hole in someone's head if they have a headache - it neither solves the underlying problems as to why servers were low in population in the first place and can end up accelerating the decline because of the issues around losing one's character name, kin name, house and so forth.

    Thankfully, there are of course more modern ways to deal with a headache and it's no different with managing server populations. Building cross-server communities, either by logically merging two or more servers have Blizzard have done with WoW (whereby characters keep their names but with a server suffix - so Bango@Laurelin), provide cross-server environments for specific types of content - cross server dungeon finder for example) or have just dispensed with physically separate servers entirely as seen in TSW, GW2 and others.

    Just looking at how most other AAA MMOs manage the issue of getting a critical mass together for group content, I would rather Turbine took the time to look at what their competition is up to and the methods they use and put in place something that will both survive the duration of the game but also make a positive impact for the game as a whole.

    Personally I would like to see groups of servers being merged logically a la WoW, allowing people to keep their characters identities, housing etc, generating a bigger pool of people for group play but ensuring that there is a "dynamic layer" so that people can group / play with those from just their own old physical server so that those established communities can be kept intact.

    Of course that's going to take a lot of resource - time, people, money and ingenuity to implement - but sometimes right way to do something is not the cheapest or easiest.
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