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Thread: Lack of groups

  1. #1
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    Angry Lack of groups

    Time to address the elephant in the room, Turbine. Something needs done to fix the serious lack of group on servers now, seriously you can sit LFG for an hour plus before you ever get a group formed; sometimes you never get a group...

    Any chance of this being addressed and resolved or is it just time to move to a game with a more thriving community. I mean seriously I can not imagine it would be too difficult to implement a cross server grouping platform.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Linnier View Post
    Time to address the elephant in the room, Turbine. Something needs done to fix the serious lack of group on servers now, seriously you can sit LFG for an hour plus before you ever get a group formed; sometimes you never get a group...
    Your thread is lacking several bits of information.

    What are you looking for this Fellowship to do? What level? What chat channel are you using? Where? What server are you on?
    Any chance of this being addressed and resolved or is it just time to move to a game with a more thriving community. I mean seriously I can not imagine it would be too difficult to implement a cross server grouping platform.
    I completely agree, that you can't fathom the actual amount of difficulty that would be involved in attempting that.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by HaleElven View Post
    Your thread is lacking several bits of information.

    What are you looking for this Fellowship to do? What level? What chat channel are you using? Where? What server are you on?

    I completely agree, that you can't fathom the actual amount of difficulty that would be involved in attempting that.
    .... any and all groups, (95) Captain, Rune Keeper, Warden, Burglar, Guardian, Champion on firefoot & brandywine. You can literally not buy a group 90% of the time.

    As to your little sarcastic remark. You are right, I can not fathom how a company like Turbine/Warner Brothers can not integrate a cross server platform, which is not terribly difficult to do; I am sure. Will they ever do it? I doubt it. Do they have the resources to do it? I doubt it. Will my post ever be answered by a member of Turbine? I doubt it. Will I reply to one of your quips again in the future, HaleElven? "Magic (8) Ball says, Not likely.

  4. #4
    They would need to rebuild the netcode and probably half the client's code both server side and local to get cross server. The game was never designed for cross server and that's obvious when you have to completely exit the game to change servers. I cannot imagine they would do something like that especially after the layoffs when they have fewer developers who can spend months rebuilding the game engine.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d000000307b65/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  5. #5
    It's the time of year, for one reason. With the warmer weather, more players are off doing other things, some in real life.

    Another part is the fact that there is currently nothing to progress to. Most raiders already have the gear they want, so they don't feel a need to group up right now.

    I suspect you are using GLFF to try to find a group. Just remember, not all players have joined that player created channel and that is what it is...a player created channel. On Vilya, I have seen 90 players online at level 95 but only 63 in the chat channel and they weren't doing much of anything. A lot do stuff in kinships, with friends or just do solo stuff.

    Just be patient. Update 14 will give us World channel that all players will be in at the start. The Dol Amroth instances have some group activities that you would need to do to get the endgame armour.

    I remember last year it was the same way...and the year before...it's the spring/summer lull. It just seems like there is no one on because the chat channels are quiet. It's a perception issue, that's all.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c000000134df0/signature.png]Kryhavoc[/charsig]

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Linnier View Post
    Time to address the elephant in the room, Turbine. Something needs done to fix the serious lack of group on servers now, seriously you can sit LFG for an hour plus before you ever get a group formed; sometimes you never get a group...
    So basically, like the game has been ever since I started playing back in July of 2008? (On Landroval no less)

    I remember waiting hours trying to get a group for the great barrow instances. And I remember waiting hours getting groups to run the book quests. The last time I grouped was at the very first part of the lonelands, back when you needed other people to kill the spiders in the trenches.

    Part of the problem is a lack of players. But the other part of the problem is snobbery. Far too many people, especially those who claim they love grouping so much, simply won't deign to group with anyone but their clique, either their guild or their friends. And so by being so insular, newer players (really, anyone post launch) over the years haven't had anyone to group with, thus they don't group now that you need them.

    So the problem is largely self made by LOTRO players and their elitism.

  7. #7
    Also remember that this game has a higher percentage of players that are late 20s/early 30s and up. They have families and full-time jobs. With schools pretty much out across the country, the parents most likely don't have the time to play now as they have to take care of the kids that are home all day. Also, this is the time of year when most people will be having weddings. Whether planning them or having to go to them, it's wedding season. Also time zones play a part. Try checking for a group at the different peak hours for the different time zones. You might have better luck that way.
    "As long as people believe in absurdities, they will continue to commit atrocities." -Voltaire

    Mini - 100 |Hunt - 100 |RK - 100 |LM - 100 |Cap - 92 |Champ - 100 |Burg - 100 |Beorn - 81

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by trancejeremy View Post
    So basically, like the game has been ever since I started playing back in July of 2008? (On Landroval no less)

    I remember waiting hours trying to get a group for the great barrow instances. And I remember waiting hours getting groups to run the book quests. The last time I grouped was at the very first part of the lonelands, back when you needed other people to kill the spiders in the trenches.

    Part of the problem is a lack of players. But the other part of the problem is snobbery. Far too many people, especially those who claim they love grouping so much, simply won't deign to group with anyone but their clique, either their guild or their friends. And so by being so insular, newer players (really, anyone post launch) over the years haven't had anyone to group with, thus they don't group now that you need them.

    So the problem is largely self made by LOTRO players and their elitism.
    I don't agree with that. I don't see much of that elitism that I see in other games. Lotro has an extremely casual community that's very used to PUGs. There's simply nothing to be elitist about in the current Lotro. Group content is extremely easy and everything is farmed by PUGs.

    There's just lack of people and lack of new, interesting, challenging group content.

    Cross server platform would be awesome (as would server mergers) but it probably won't happen.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amariel28 View Post
    Also remember that this game has a higher percentage of players that are late 20s/early 30s and up. They have families and full-time jobs. With schools pretty much out across the country, the parents most likely don't have the time to play now as they have to take care of the kids that are home all day. Also, this is the time of year when most people will be having weddings. Whether planning them or having to go to them, it's wedding season. Also time zones play a part. Try checking for a group at the different peak hours for the different time zones. You might have better luck that way.

    This is pretty much me. I started MMOs in my 30s and I'm almost 50 now. 15 years of MMOs and ive very rarely grouped because of RL issues.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by trancejeremy View Post
    So basically, like the game has been ever since I started playing back in July of 2008? (On Landroval no less)

    I remember waiting hours trying to get a group for the great barrow instances. And I remember waiting hours getting groups to run the book quests. The last time I grouped was at the very first part of the lonelands, back when you needed other people to kill the spiders in the trenches.

    Part of the problem is a lack of players. But the other part of the problem is snobbery. Far too many people, especially those who claim they love grouping so much, simply won't deign to group with anyone but their clique, either their guild or their friends. And so by being so insular, newer players (really, anyone post launch) over the years haven't had anyone to group with, thus they don't group now that you need them.

    So the problem is largely self made by LOTRO players and their elitism.
    This is BS...First of all you admit that you haven't grouped for probably 5 years, so how do you know anything about it or the problem the OP talks about? Secondly I'm on the same server as you and it is not the same as it was in 2008. The only actual instance you mention is the great barrow, so it's normal you had trouble finding groups... People not feeling like holding your hand while you quest is not elitism...

  11. #11
    I agree. This has been a problem for at least a year now. My question is, why has turbine not done any server merging? This would solve the problem would it not?

    It's time to merge more than a couple servers turbine, this game is terrible for one reason, not enough people.

    I used to love this game, but it is impossible to enjoy when it feels like I'm playing a single player game the ENTIRE time.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000048d064/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geldeger View Post
    I don't agree with that. I don't see much of that elitism that I see in other games. Lotro has an extremely casual community that's very used to PUGs. There's simply nothing to be elitist about in the current Lotro. Group content is extremely easy and everything is farmed by PUGs.

    There's just lack of people and lack of new, interesting, challenging group content.

    Cross server platform would be awesome (as would server mergers) but it probably won't happen.
    Cross server I'd grant; but database issues between what Turbine's database guidelines were and what Codemasters implemented, which didn't stick to them, make that impossible economically.

    Server merges are not necessary nor desired by a substantial fraction of the players. Leave my Nimrodel alone.

    There is new and interesting, to me, group content coming. That will not please some.

    Also, many do not see fight length and/or defeat risk as the sole determinants of 'challenging' content, group or otherwise.
    "No sadder words of tongue or pen are the words: 'Might have been'." -- John Greenleaf Whittier
    "Do or do not. There is no try." -- Yoda
    On planet Earth, there is a try.
    Indeed, in a world and life full of change, the only constant is human nature (A is A, after all :P).
    We old vets need to keep in mind those who come after us.

  13. #13
    Just coming from someone who rarely likes to group.....

    1) Most PUGs I've been a part of are horrible. It's usually got people who are immature and frankly vulgar. It's one thing to get excited and cuss it's another to start talking about someone's anatomy because they died. A lot of people in my kin stopped getting into PUG because of this very thing.

    2) I don't have the time when I'm playing to devote an hour or so to one objective when there is much more to do in the game. Most people I've met in the game are married, with kids and 30+ in age. We have lives and we have to maximize our time. We just use the AH and buy the stuff that comes out of RAIDs.

    3) Frankly, this game is a lot more fun when you make up your own adventure and stop waiting for the Devs to come up with something. If you depend on someone else's imagination to have fun, you'll probably be disappointed.

  14. #14
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    I expect the upcoming World channel will help quite a bit with this issue.
    If you give away gold bars, someone will complain they're too heavy.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirkBadgewick View Post
    Just coming from someone who rarely likes to group.....

    1) Most PUGs I've been a part of are horrible. It's usually got people who are immature and frankly vulgar. It's one thing to get excited and cuss it's another to start talking about someone's anatomy because they died. A lot of people in my kin stopped getting into PUG because of this very thing.

    2) I don't have the time when I'm playing to devote an hour or so to one objective when there is much more to do in the game. Most people I've met in the game are married, with kids and 30+ in age. We have lives and we have to maximize our time. We just use the AH and buy the stuff that comes out of RAIDs.

    3) Frankly, this game is a lot more fun when you make up your own adventure and stop waiting for the Devs to come up with something. If you depend on someone else's imagination to have fun, you'll probably be disappointed.
    Dirk, your words are pearls. My experience with PUGs, across
    fifteen years and several games, have been almost uniformly
    unpleasant. Part of this is because I will go on making
    healer characters such as Minstrels and LMs, and the people I
    group with just do not understand that I am squishy and can't
    defend myself against the mobs that they just brush away with
    the heel of their hand (mace, sword, halberd, ....).

    So I solo or duo and make sure that whatever I'm doing is
    several levels below my character's level, so that I have a decent
    chance of coming out of it alive. I do not need fellows who charge
    ahead so enthusiastically that they don't realize something's
    sneaking up behind me until it's too late.
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone

  16. #16
    The biggest cause of the lack of grouping now, in my estimation, is the Update 12 class revamps. The classes just don't work together as well as they used to. The balance was thrown out of whack, and it has become more difficult to ameliorate. It takes months for the developers to introduce adjustments to class skills, and these adjustments usually overcompensate, requiring a further adjustment months in the future. The OODA loop wasn't functionally shortened.

    Group content has become less fun. The game needs another class revamp to restore the classes' lost utility.
    I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. ~ Faramir

    Undo the U12 class changes. The trait trees were, are, and will always be a bad idea.
    Maedhric 100 Captain, Nunion 93 Champion, Taraviel 85 Minstrel, etc...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirkBadgewick View Post
    Just coming from someone who rarely likes to group.....

    1) Most PUGs I've been a part of are horrible. It's usually got people who are immature and frankly vulgar. It's one thing to get excited and cuss it's another to start talking about someone's anatomy because they died. A lot of people in my kin stopped getting into PUG because of this very thing.

    2) I don't have the time when I'm playing to devote an hour or so to one objective when there is much more to do in the game. Most people I've met in the game are married, with kids and 30+ in age. We have lives and we have to maximize our time. We just use the AH and buy the stuff that comes out of RAIDs.

    3) Frankly, this game is a lot more fun when you make up your own adventure and stop waiting for the Devs to come up with something. If you depend on someone else's imagination to have fun, you'll probably be disappointed.

    Charming.

    => 1)
    So let me get this straight ... Just because *you* had bad experiences with grouping means that it's bad. Narrow minded much?

    => 2)
    Funny, but most people I've raided with had children, jobs and were 30+ as well. Your witty comment about raiders not having lives is also quite lovely considering *you* are buying the items people who raid sell at the AH. Again: Narrow minded much?

    => 3)
    Wow ... So just because some people don't play the game "your way" means they are wrong? Now I really feel guilty for having so much fun when this game still had grouping content. All those hours laughing when things on teamspeak got "strange"^^, the great time we've had trying different strategies to beat the next room, the cheers when someone won a decent item, the moments of grief when the loot was not really what we had expected ... Yes, what a total waste of time when I could have sat in the shire for 8 hours in a row, planting carrots.


    I wish my words could reach you, but sadly you've probably already made your opionion about grouping and - judging by the state of this game - someone did listen.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by trancejeremy View Post
    So basically, like the game has been ever since I started playing back in July of 2008? (On Landroval no less)

    I remember waiting hours trying to get a group for the great barrow instances. And I remember waiting hours getting groups to run the book quests. The last time I grouped was at the very first part of the lonelands, back when you needed other people to kill the spiders in the trenches.

    Part of the problem is a lack of players. But the other part of the problem is snobbery. Far too many people, especially those who claim they love grouping so much, simply won't deign to group with anyone but their clique, either their guild or their friends. And so by being so insular, newer players (really, anyone post launch) over the years haven't had anyone to group with, thus they don't group now that you need them.

    So the problem is largely self made by LOTRO players and their elitism.
    You can't possibly play on Landroval and say this with a straight face. There are PUGs that form on/off throughout the day... I will even see lowbie groups form up sometimes (rarer but it does happen). The people on Landroval definitely are not snobs... though there a certainly a few people to avoid... and don't mind grouping.
    You might find less grouping for group content on the landscape... but Turbine has been making things more "solo friendly" making grouping up for quests pretty optional.

    Also, by your own admission... you haven't grouped in 5-6 years (seeing as your last group was back when you needed help with those spiders). So, how would you even know what it is like to group when you haven't grouped in several years?

    If you really wanted to group, you would have found yourself a good kinship... where people have no problem getting help with group quests... like mine (shameless plug!). But, based on your post history... you clearly have no interest in taking the steps to make things easier for yourself... and then want to be able to turn around and blame everyone else for your problems.
    Dagranhad - Burglar | Aldgarea - Loremaster | Barathrothir - Hunter | Golladhar - Captain

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linnier View Post
    I can not imagine it would be too difficult to implement a cross server grouping platform.
    I've been designing software for 30 years now, and I can easily imagine that this would be "horrendous". As a simple example, the character database schemas are different enough between the NA and EU servers that they can't even get paid character transfers working between them. (Rather, I suspect they actually could, but if they could make enough money off the transfers to give them a good ROI they would have done so by now: it's simply not that easy to do, despite being far simpler than what you're suggesting).

    This is likely one of those things that's vastly easier to do when you're first architecting a system than 8 or 9 years down the road. Your architectural choices become more deeply ingrained over time, and the work involved in changing it at a fundamental level can become so high that it's literally easier to just re-write it from scratch.

    ESO has its own problems, but one thing that's better in this regard is that they designed the PvE sections of the game to operate in what amounts to cross-shard dynamic "layers"... you're only aware of a single world shared by everyone, but in reality people in many dungeons and open terrain regions of the game are sharing that space via layering tech. This allows the game to adapt to changes in population, whether those changes span months or just hours - the higher the population, the more layers, and the lower the population, the fewer layers. This helps keep player density more steady, and almost certainly makes it easier to find groups (or recruit for larger guilds, another common way people group).

    Could Turbine have designed LOTRO that way, maybe 9 years ago? Sure. But they didn't, and I'd be extremely surprised if moving from this to that architecture would be anything but very difficult/risky.

    Khafar

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarwathiel View Post
    I agree. This has been a problem for at least a year now. My question is, why has turbine not done any server merging? This would solve the problem would it not?

    It's time to merge more than a couple servers turbine, this game is terrible for one reason, not enough people.

    I used to love this game, but it is impossible to enjoy when it feels like I'm playing a single player game the ENTIRE time.
    It would solve nothing because the game has gone almost completely solo. Those kinships (like my own) who still like to do ALL the content from GB on up are few and far between. In my travels around ME on my main and various alts I see many, many players of all levels who don't belong to a kin. From their perspective it may be because they find no benefit from being in one, prefer to solo, thus have no interest in grouping up, are anti-social, have limited time to play, family, work, school and other commitments. From my own perspective, there is still enough challenge if you want to make it so, like doing content at level, (and not be power leveled through stuff) using xp disablers and just plain exploring.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2521c000000241fb6/signature.png]Galaetea[/charsig]

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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by cdq1958 View Post
    Cross server I'd grant; but database issues between what Turbine's database guidelines were and what Codemasters implemented, which didn't stick to them, make that impossible economically.
    That's part of the issue, they'd essentially have to code the cross-server system for American servers and another one for ex-Euro servers.

    Also, I suspect that it would be too expensive regardless of that issue. It's a massive change so late in the game's life cycle.

    Quote Originally Posted by cdq1958 View Post
    Server merges are not necessary nor desired by a substantial fraction of the players. Leave my Nimrodel alone.

    There is new and interesting, to me, group content coming. That will not please some.

    Also, many do not see fight length and/or defeat risk as the sole determinants of 'challenging' content, group or otherwise.
    If I liked new group content and thought it was challenging like you do, I would be very annoyed to be on Nimrodel. I would want to be on a bigger server where I would get to do that group content a lot.

    To each his own, everyone has a playstyle and preferences and that's fine. I know there are people who are against merging, and who love big battles or chicken hockey. But I do wonder how big those fractions are. I don't run into them in the game, I only seem to see them on the forums, so I kind of get an impression that it's a vocal forum minority. But I could be wrong of course.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirkBadgewick View Post
    Just coming from someone who rarely likes to group.....

    1) Most PUGs I've been a part of are horrible. It's usually got people who are immature and frankly vulgar. It's one thing to get excited and cuss it's another to start talking about someone's anatomy because they died. A lot of people in my kin stopped getting into PUG because of this very thing.

    2) I don't have the time when I'm playing to devote an hour or so to one objective when there is much more to do in the game. Most people I've met in the game are married, with kids and 30+ in age. We have lives and we have to maximize our time. We just use the AH and buy the stuff that comes out of RAIDs.

    3) Frankly, this game is a lot more fun when you make up your own adventure and stop waiting for the Devs to come up with something. If you depend on someone else's imagination to have fun, you'll probably be disappointed.
    1. I've been in lots of pugs. Some are good. Some are horrible. They are as pleasant as the people in them, and spending time with random strangers on the internet is what it is. Given that there are a lot of very pleasant people in this community, it simply isn't true that all pugs are bad. Yes the horrible ones can be really horrible, but to paint everyone who ever groups in this game with the same brush is just plain offensive.

    2. I'm over 40, have a kid, a very successful and demanding career, family, friends, etc. In other words, I have a life. Yet somehow, I've managed to spend time raiding (and deeding, and RPing, and questing, and crafting--these things really don't take as much time as people seem to think). Hmm...I wonder how that's possible? I've grouped with many married couples with children who play when their kids are napping or on a play date for a bit of fun couple time. So the idea that raiding=no life is, again, just plain offensive. Enough with the old, tired stereotypes please.

    3. So the devs aren't responsible for developing content; we are? I'm curious how that works. I thought the fun part was playing through the content provided by the devs. I must have it all wrong.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by DirkBadgewick View Post
    Just coming from someone who rarely likes to group.....

    1) Most PUGs I've been a part of are horrible. It's usually got people who are immature and frankly vulgar. It's one thing to get excited and cuss it's another to start talking about someone's anatomy because they died. A lot of people in my kin stopped getting into PUG because of this very thing.

    2) I don't have the time when I'm playing to devote an hour or so to one objective when there is much more to do in the game. Most people I've met in the game are married, with kids and 30+ in age. We have lives and we have to maximize our time. We just use the AH and buy the stuff that comes out of RAIDs.

    3) Frankly, this game is a lot more fun when you make up your own adventure and stop waiting for the Devs to come up with something. If you depend on someone else's imagination to have fun, you'll probably be disappointed.
    Interesting. After hundreds of PUGs, I vividly remember one bad experience where people thought they were big shot raiders and called others stupid (and worse). Generally (over 99% of the time) it's very casual, people are either silent and do their grind, or casually chat on voice chat. I imagine that my experience would've been worse some years ago when raids were more difficult and the game was full of dedicated raiders. Today's PUGs are very casual in my experience, and I enjoy them because of people, not for some drops which like you say I could buy on AH or craft something similar myself. There are lots of PUG leaders that I often see on GLFF collecting a group, and I join them exactly because I like them as people and I know I'm going to have a good time.

    Actually, if there's one thing I'd say against this cross-server grouping system, it's that I generally love people in my server's PUGs, and I wouldn't get to group with them as much.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirkBadgewick View Post
    Just coming from someone who rarely likes to group.....

    1) Most PUGs I've been a part of are horrible. It's usually got people who are immature and frankly vulgar. It's one thing to get excited and cuss it's another to start talking about someone's anatomy because they died. A lot of people in my kin stopped getting into PUG because of this very thing.

    2) I don't have the time when I'm playing to devote an hour or so to one objective when there is much more to do in the game. Most people I've met in the game are married, with kids and 30+ in age. We have lives and we have to maximize our time. We just use the AH and buy the stuff that comes out of RAIDs.

    3) Frankly, this game is a lot more fun when you make up your own adventure and stop waiting for the Devs to come up with something. If you depend on someone else's imagination to have fun, you'll probably be disappointed.

    I agree with your 2nd and 3rd points but not the first. I've met some really good and amazing people through pugs.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  25. #25
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    I regularly group up, I regularly PUG, and I regularly have a great time with people in-game. Might be a good time for you to find a new server or a kin to help with your enjoyment of the game.

 

 
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