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  1. #1
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    Horses VS March in Keeps

    There is absolutely no reason why Creeps should benefit from March in keeps while Freeps are automatically dismounted upon entrance.

    This needs to be fixed back the way it used to be.
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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by RGilthanas View Post
    There is absolutely no reason why Creeps should benefit from March in keeps while Freeps are automatically dismounted upon entrance.

    This needs to be fixed back the way it used to be.
    it used to be mounts in keeps.


    Disable march in Keeps.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post

    Disable march in Keeps.

    ^^
    seconding this notion, march in keeps is silly.
    There may come a time for valor without renown, for those without swords may surely still die upon them.


  4. #4

    dismount freeps when dealt more than 250 dmg

    I dont see why freeps dont get dismounted when i do more than 250 dmg on them when they are on horse. Unlike march which get toggled of the second you are in combat.


    Please come up with better QQ
    Retired from lotro since june '14. Currently kicking other noobs on gw2.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ulza View Post
    I dont see why freeps dont get dismounted when i do more than 250 dmg on them when they are on horse. Unlike march which get toggled of the second you are in combat.


    Please come up with better QQ
    When u13 came out You are the #1 QQer on this forum.

    Disable march in Keeps.
    Agreed.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ulza View Post
    I dont see why freeps dont get dismounted when i do more than 250 dmg on them when they are on horse. Unlike march which get toggled of the second you are in combat.


    Please come up with better QQ
    Thats a word!

    If march should be disabled in keeps then let freeps dismount when they get infight or at least when they get as much damage as their mount has.

  7. #7
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    see this is why these discussions never get anywhere

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by RGilthanas View Post
    There is absolutely no reason why Creeps should benefit from March in keeps while Freeps are automatically dismounted upon entrance.

    This needs to be fixed back the way it used to be.



    Then wardens shouldn't be able to march an hunters shouldn't get their speed buff either in keeps?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ulza View Post
    I dont see why freeps dont get dismounted when i do more than 250 dmg on them when they are on horse. Unlike march which get toggled of the second you are in combat.


    Please come up with better QQ
    This is a mount vs march+maps issue, which is completely irrelevant to the discussion of movement inside keeps/
    Quote Originally Posted by Girum19 View Post
    Then wardens shouldn't be able to march an hunters shouldn't get their speed buff either in keeps?
    Does that mean wargs and weavers lose their passive runspeed in keeps?





    ffs people....
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    This is a mount vs march+maps issue, which is completely irrelevant to the discussion of movement inside keeps/
    Rigth but if whinig about such little things, than we can go further and complain about bigger issues, which the "mount-problem" is imo.

    As WL for eg its almost impossible to dismount a freep, that would be solved if the dismount when in combat.


    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Does that mean wargs and weavers lose their passive runspeed in keeps?
    Well as far as I know the warden march (which can reach a silly high speed buff) isn't passive.

  11. #11
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    As far as it goes. March is a what.. 0.5 second induction? You can plough through water at that speed too, without the need to toggle it off/on (although yeah, toggling it on in water with timed jumps is hard, as if it matters).

    Mount induction is 2-3x longer, which although it's not that much, they have to dismount for water, keeps, they can be dismounted extremely easily anyway (who really has issues dismounting a freep?), and they can't get around the map as fast as a creep anyway. Creeps with +10% buff and WL march aura can achieve 145% run speed which is only a little slower than horses, but you have maps to near enough every spot on the map within 300m.

    As it goes though, balance would be disabling the OVERALL runspeed buffs of both sides. March/Aura is made to counter freepside mounts. Mounts are disabled in keeps, so should March/Aura. Simple as that. All other arguments are irrelevant. As a predominantly freepside player, give me the option to trade my mount for a March skill and a set of maps to take me and my entire 24man to anywhere on the map within 10 seconds + 2 seconds loading screen, I'll take that ANY DAY, as will any other freep.

    Eq
    Absolution

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post
    As far as it goes. March is a what.. 0.5 second induction? You can plough through water at that speed too, without the need to toggle it off/on (although yeah, toggling it on in water with timed jumps is hard, as if it matters).

    Mount induction is 2-3x longer, which although it's not that much, they have to dismount for water, keeps, they can be dismounted extremely easily anyway (who really has issues dismounting a freep?), and they can't get around the map as fast as a creep anyway. Creeps with +10% buff and WL march aura can achieve 145% run speed which is only a little slower than horses, but you have maps to near enough every spot on the map within 300m.

    As it goes though, balance would be disabling the OVERALL runspeed buffs of both sides. March/Aura is made to counter freepside mounts. Mounts are disabled in keeps, so should March/Aura. Simple as that. All other arguments are irrelevant. As a predominantly freepside player, give me the option to trade my mount for a March skill and a set of maps to take me and my entire 24man to anywhere on the map within 10 seconds + 2 seconds loading screen, I'll take that ANY DAY, as will any other freep.

    Eq

    Mount induction isnt that much longer than march. Yes, having march benefits us if we are swimming, but doesnt every freepclass have some sort of run skill?

    If being dismounted because you have to swim across the river, is an issue for you, you can just use the 2 bridges near Ta. If i remember correctly they even adjusted some parts in the water near ta so its possible to cross the water without being dismounted. Only when you want to cross the river from GTA, it could be a problem.

    Yes creeps have maps, but most maps arent even usefull. for the last months ive been using 4 maps: gta/gtr/p isen en ply. I wouldnt mind if freeps get a map to ec (with a 5min timer).

    If you want march/mobile disabled that i want horses to be removed when they are hit for more than 250moral. Dealing 6k on a 14k moral rk and he still rides away makes no sense to me.


    ps: i'll throw more oil on the fire: why not disable march in the delving too? because freeps cant use mounts there.



    edit: which benefits (for freeps) would disabling march bring in the first place?
    Last edited by ulza; Jun 17 2014 at 10:58 AM.
    Retired from lotro since june '14. Currently kicking other noobs on gw2.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ulza View Post
    Mount induction isnt that much longer than march. Yes, having march benefits us if we are swimming, but doesnt every freepclass have some sort of run skill?

    If being dismounted because you have to swim across the river, is an issue for you, you can just use the 2 bridges near Ta. If i remember correctly they even adjusted some parts in the water near ta so its possible to cross the water without being dismounted. Only when you want to cross the river from GTA, it could be a problem.

    Yes creeps have maps, but most maps arent even usefull. for the last months ive been using 4 maps: gta/gtr/p isen en ply. I wouldnt mind if freeps get a map to ec (with a 5min timer).

    If you want march/mobile disabled that i want horses to be removed when they are hit for more than 250moral. Dealing 6k on a 14k moral rk and he still rides away makes no sense to me.


    ps: i'll throw more oil on the fire: why not disable march in the delving too? because freeps cant use mounts there.



    edit: which benefits (for freeps) would disabling march bring in the first place?
    Serious question: do you believe the points you are making are an honest analysis of things?


    Freeps would get the bonus of moving at the same speed as creeps in a keep or the dof.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    This is a mount vs march+maps issue, which is completely irrelevant to the discussion of movement inside keeps/


    Does that mean wargs and weavers lose their passive runspeed in keeps?





    ffs people....
    Some times I lose faith in humanity when a simple question/comment is veered so far off the mark.

    Quote Originally Posted by ulza View Post
    ps: i'll throw more oil on the fire: why not disable march in the delving too? because freeps cant use mounts there.
    As long as all freeps and creeps have the same access to the same run speed. Except class specific skills/traits/passives, of course.
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  15. #15
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    This is some strange QQ...

    Does it really matter that much? What freep class doesn't have a sprint skill to catch up to whatever creep you so desperately need to reach while in a keep?

    Max creep speed is about 145% with the warleader buff. Max freep speed is 178% if I'm not mistaken. Freeps get to go 178% around the map except in keeps, sure creeps have maps but in the usual state of the moors(not now) those are pretty important. Freeps like wardens and hunters also have some pretty nice runspeed buffs, and the hunters effects the whole group.

    Think about this. Say you're solo/small group and you see a solo/small group of creeps in a keep. No matter what side the keep is(red or blue) one side is going to be in combat as soon as they enter that keep(npcs) and lose whatever run speed buff they could possibly have.

    The only benefit of using mounts in a keep is you can get to the CG 5 seconds faster than normal, which in most scenarios doesn't really matter unless you have terrible people scouting/30+ creeps flipping it(in which case you might want to stay out of that keep)

    The other benefit would be you get in and out to turn in your daily quests faster.

    QQ more, this is a pretty "first world problem" type thing.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by OruiFarimur View Post
    Max creep speed is about 145% with the warleader buff. Max freep speed is 178% if I'm not mistaken. Freeps get to go 178% around the map except in keeps, sure creeps have maps but in the usual state of the moors(not now) those are pretty important. Freeps like wardens and hunters also have some pretty nice runspeed buffs, and the hunters effects the whole group.

    The only benefit of using mounts in a keep is you can get to the CG 5 seconds faster than normal, which in most scenarios doesn't really matter unless you have terrible people scouting/30+ creeps flipping it(in which case you might want to stay out of that keep)
    OP refered to keeps only so talking about what one can do everywhere else on the map isn't the task at hand.

    I'm only going to guess (since the buff is disabled by combat) that this comes from zergs(raids) running through their own keeps to stop freeps from taking it. So yes it is fair to say that if freeps cant use a horse in the keep march should not work either. Which just a guess but would only be a 30 second difference in time between entering(front door) and reaching the tyrant room. Will give people a moment to decide to stick with it if they think they can pull it off or bail if they cant fight the npcs with creeps on them...


    and if we could be so lucky that they suck back that anti march/horse barrier to be within the confines of the keep and not protruding out the walls dismounting anyone who passes close.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by OruiFarimur View Post
    The only benefit of using mounts in a keep is you can get to the CG 5 seconds faster than normal, which in most scenarios doesn't really matter unless you have terrible people scouting/30+ creeps flipping it(in which case you might want to stay out of that keep)
    Isn't this the best reason to keep things the way it was.....?

    Quote Originally Posted by OruiFarimur View Post
    QQ more, this is a pretty "first world problem" type thing.
    Lol, this is so true. It is a video game after all, but one I pay for.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Serious question: do you believe the points you are making are an honest analysis of things?


    Freeps would get the bonus of moving at the same speed as creeps in a keep or the dof.
    No, im pulling random stuff out of my hat.

    Here's another one: why dont you use the backdoor if you want to go to the questroom to do your daily pve?

    I still dont see the point why march should be removed in keeps.

    If its our keep and we are being chased by a freep, that freep can range use which gets us in combat and toggles off march.
    If its a freep keep, march is toggled off the second creeps are in combat.
    If its our keep and we want to go to the questroom/tyrantroom, we just use the backdoor.

    Having mounts inside a keep would only benefit a pony zerg to ride up to the first floor. Its not like a npc can dismount a freep
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ulza View Post
    Its not like a npc can dismount a freep
    Your immense stupidity, lack of understanding of basic game mechanics, and creep-goggled bias quite literally astounds me.

    To reply to one of the many, many idiotic statements your fingers have burdened this thread with, any NPC can 1-shot dismount a freep, and 9 times out of 10 running over a bridge at TA with 3 npcs on it will dismount you instantly.

    MOST creep classes have interrupts, any form of CC or interrupt, and between 1 and 3 hits with any dps skill will knock a freep off their mount. It's not about doing "250" damage to a freep, it's just about hitting them sufficiently.

    I'd also love to see some proof that you did 6k damage to a runekeeper 1) within the time he mounted and rode past you. 2) and that it SOMEHOW did not dismount him.

    6,000 damage...

    Almost unbelievable, that, how curious...
    Absolution

  20. #20
    Remove Creepside maps. Add an induction to Creeps to activate March which is the same as when Freeps Mounting induction, then equalize speed of March and Mounted Freeps. If players get in combat, they get out of the stance immediately. Equalize freepside/creepside general run speed in keeps, exceptions are hunters and wargs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post
    Your immense stupidity, lack of understanding of basic game mechanics, and creep-goggled bias quite literally astounds me.

    To reply to one of the many, many idiotic statements your fingers have burdened this thread with, any NPC can 1-shot dismount a freep, and 9 times out of 10 running over a bridge at TA with 3 npcs on it will dismount you instantly.

    MOST creep classes have interrupts, any form of CC or interrupt, and between 1 and 3 hits with any dps skill will knock a freep off their mount. It's not about doing "250" damage to a freep, it's just about hitting them sufficiently.

    I'd also love to see some proof that you did 6k damage to a runekeeper 1) within the time he mounted and rode past you. 2) and that it SOMEHOW did not dismount him.

    6,000 damage...

    Almost unbelievable, that, how curious...
    Well, to be honest, a defiler shouldn't HAVE to use his 15 second cooldown skill to dismount anything.
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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post
    Your immense stupidity, lack of understanding of basic game mechanics, and creep-goggled bias quite literally astounds me.

    To reply to one of the many, many idiotic statements your fingers have burdened this thread with, any NPC can 1-shot dismount a freep, and 9 times out of 10 running over a bridge at TA with 3 npcs on it will dismount you instantly.

    MOST creep classes have interrupts, any form of CC or interrupt, and between 1 and 3 hits with any dps skill will knock a freep off their mount. It's not about doing "250" damage to a freep, it's just about hitting them sufficiently.

    I'd also love to see some proof that you did 6k damage to a runekeeper 1) within the time he mounted and rode past you. 2) and that it SOMEHOW did not dismount him.

    6,000 damage...

    Almost unbelievable, that, how curious...

    I know perfectly how this game works. But feel free to explain to me.

    I cant give you proof that i did 6k dmg on that freep (note it was 1.8k dmg with explosive gourd and 4.2k dmg from the dot, which makes 6k). But still it doesnt make sense. Same for a reaver when he hits a 4k+ with bladetoss and the freep just rides off. Unlike march which puts me in combat even when someone auto attacked me with a bow.

    Im fully aware that creeps have interupt/cc/ whatever to dismount a freep, but what does a defiler have? A fear skill with a 6.2m range! Have you ever tried to dismount someone as defiler? Well its almost impossible, unless the freep just rides up to you. Not to mention that fear might get resisted. Which is often the case.

    I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a good arguement about disabling march in a keep!
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  22. #22
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    I think what makes the least amount of sense is how a healing class does almost 50% of anythings morale with just 2 skills.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ulza View Post
    I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a good arguement about disabling march in a keep!
    People have already. In a word - balance.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Serious question: do you believe the points you are making are an honest analysis of things?
    Quote Originally Posted by ulza View Post
    Mount induction isnt that much longer than march. Yes, having march benefits us if we are swimming, but doesnt every freepclass have some sort of run skill?
    Freep mount-up inductions are 200% slower than creep march inductions, and even more importantly, require you to be at a standstill for the duration of the induction, plus the actual mount animation. On a related note, if you are dismounted through combat in many situations you cannot even begin attacking until the completion of the 'dismount' animation. 5 of 9 freep classes have some for of 'run skill', of which only 2 don't have a quite significant cooldown, meaning using them out of combat to arrive at a destination sooner, rather than using it in combat as a means of closing ground on an opponent is the height of stupidity.

    If being dismounted because you have to swim across the river, is an issue for you, you can just use the 2 bridges near Ta. If i remember correctly they even adjusted some parts in the water near ta so its possible to cross the water without being dismounted. Only when you want to cross the river from GTA, it could be a problem.
    Except that if TA is red, you have about a 50/50 shot of crossing the bridge without the NPCs dismounting you. Also, both those bridges and the land bridges require you to take VERY specific routes to other places, that are rarely the fastest way to get somewhere, and don't cover all portions of the map.

    Yes creeps have maps, but most maps arent even usefull. for the last months ive been using 4 maps: gta/gtr/p isen en ply. I wouldnt mind if freeps get a map to ec (with a 5min timer).
    That you only use a small portion of those maps is an indication of how garbage the action is on your server currently, and isn't even a relevant part of the greater topic of movement in the moors, much less the actual topic of movement inside keeps.
    If you want march/mobile disabled that i want horses to be removed when they are hit for more than 250moral. Dealing 6k on a 14k moral rk and he still rides away makes no sense to me.
    You say later you understand how the game works, so why is it that I can consistently dismount a freep without CC/interrupt, and dealing MASSIVELY less damage than 6k or whatever it is you claim?
    edit: which benefits (for freeps) would disabling march bring in the first place?
    an ability to 'keep up' with a creep inside a keep.
    The ability to go from top to bottom without a backdoor at the same rate as a creep.


    Quote Originally Posted by ulza View Post
    Here's another one: why dont you use the backdoor if you want to go to the questroom to do your daily pve?
    I'll delete my account if my freeps have 1/10th of the total pve that your defiler has, good try on shifting the conversation though.

    As for the backdoor, what if a creep group is camping the back door and a freep is trying to do their daily pve, or stop another creep group from flipping the keep, or meet up with their group, or anything else they could be doing in a keep while the back door is unavailable?
    I still dont see the point why march should be removed in keeps.

    If its our keep and we are being chased by a freep, that freep can range use which gets us in combat and toggles off march.
    If its a freep keep, march is toggled off the second creeps are in combat.
    If its our keep and we want to go to the questroom/tyrantroom, we just use the backdoor.
    We've been through the backdoor stuff already
    March is only toggled off if you're in combat, which means its only toggled off if you're the first creep into a keep, or you're healtagging the first creep into the keep.
    Do you want me to list off every possible scenario where a freep might not be able to put a creep they are chasing into a keep into combat?
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ulza View Post
    Mount induction isnt that much longer than march. Yes, having march benefits us if we are swimming, but doesnt every freepclass have some sort of run skill?

    Im a Rk and I don't have a sprint.
    I also have a burglar and I dont have a sprint.
    I levld a LM till 95 but dindt play him too much.. I also dont remember any sprint.

    so... ?.?

 

 
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